[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

General Motors Corp. is cutting 25,000 jobs and closing an unspecified number of plants over the next 3-1/2 years, CEO Rick Wagoner told shareholders Tuesday, as the world's largest automaker struggles to stem huge losses.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/07/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

Looking at their industrial design I am not surprised.

[RAILhead]

Good thing I drive Nissans and Infinitis.

Maury

[Randman]

In other rumours, GM will be using PPC chips in future models.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

They deserve it:

[waxcrash]

I said to myself, "GM must be in trouble", when I saw the commercial the other day promoting the 'GM Employee Discount for Everyone'.

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102505

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

They deserve it:

Why is that car wearing a nappy?

[the_glassman]

Originally Posted by Face Ache

Why is that car wearing a nappy?

Because it looks better that way.

[Cubeoid]

Cars are useful

[Kilbey]

Hate to break it to you guys, but anyone with any industry intelligence knew how many jobs GM was trying to eliminate years ago.

Article.

Analysts said Mr. Wagoner's cuts were not much of an increase from G.M.'s current pace of job reductions...

At my factory, over 80% of the hourly workers have the ability to retire. They replace at about a rate of 1 new worker for every 3 retiring. In Sept. 2007 when the current contract expires I expect over half of the workers at my factory to have retired.

It's sad when I see upper management focusing on job cuts and not design innovation as a way to save money. The Aztek is a perfect example. It was a VERY poor seller. Why? Because it's butt-ugly! Gues what? THEY'RE STILL MAKING IT!!! They are only selling them now because they are basically giving them away. They need to drop the Aztek, SSR, Aveo, Avalanche, and GTO NOW!!! They are destroying GM's reputation.

They need to get 2 door G6s on the road and more 2 door Cobalts now!

They need to make the Solstice as soon as possible. And make it mid-priced, not cheap or over-priced market niche like the GTO and SSR currently are.

GM has beat the the quality of most of the Asians, and now has a very efficient workforce.

Now they need to design cars that make people excited like the original Corvettes, Firebirds, GTOs, Rivieras, Monte Carlos, Fieros, and Le Mans.

And last but not least, make a reliable hybrid car (unlike Toyotas stalling piece of junk.)

My $0.02 as a current worker it a GM factory.

[brapper]

Originally Posted by Kilbey

It's sad when I see upper management focusing on job cuts and not design innovation as a way to save money. The Aztek is a perfect example. It was a VERY poor seller. Why? Because it's butt-ugly! Gues what? THEY'RE STILL MAKING IT!!! They are only selling them now because they are basically giving them away. They need to drop the Aztek, SSR, Aveo, Avalanche, and GTO NOW!!! They are destroying GM's reputation.

They need to get 2 door G6s on the road and more 2 door Cobalts now!

They need to make the Solstice as soon as possible. And make it mid-priced, not cheap or over-priced market niche like the GTO and SSR currently are.

GM has beat the the quality of most of the Asians, and now has a very efficient workforce.

Now they need to design cars that make people excited like the original Corvettes, Firebirds, GTOs, Rivieras, Monte Carlos, Fieros, and Le Mans.

And last but not least, make a reliable hybrid car (unlike Toyotas stalling piece of junk.)

My $0.02 as a current worker it a GM factory.

Well... I agree with all that.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by waxcrash

I said to myself, "GM must be in trouble", when I saw the commercial the other day promoting the 'GM Employee Discount for Everyone'.

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102505

ah that makes sense...wow

I work in a sector of the auto-industry and all I can say is, IT'S ABOUT TIME!

The bloat that has become the union run auto plant is finally on it's way out, hopefully. In no other industry have I seen such a useless sludge of a workforce.

[Hawkeye_a]

European cars(most of them) are still #1 in my book (sans the Yugo).

Japaneeses cars try and copy european designs too much (kinda like PCs manufactureres copying Apple and selling em for cheap without options).

American cars are too big and feel like empty shells to me....guess cause the target audience is most concerned with size rather than performance/efficiency. BUt ive always prefered elegence/efficiency/design to just plain size/power.....but thats just me.

GM cutting jobs.....so they moving more jobs to mexico ? welcome to the 'free world' economy.

Cheers

[dav]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

European cars(most of them) are still #1 in my book (sans the Yugo).

i'd take nissan over vw anyday. in fact, i'd take the g35 over the 3-series.

[scaught]

Originally Posted by Face Ache

Why is that car wearing a nappy?

its covering up some of the ugly.


ya. GM is in rough water. they just took a major hit with that fiat deal.

[angelmb]

What is going to happen to those 25000 guys once they lose the job?, that is what really matters.

[pooka]

Originally Posted by dav

i'd take nissan over vw anyday. in fact, i'd take the g35 over the 3-series.

No ****.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by angelmb

What is going to happen to those 25000 guys once they lose the job?, that is what really matters.

They will look for new jobs just like anyone else who ever got laid off.

[JoshuaZ]

The find a job in some other sector of the market where skills are needed. Thats the way a free market works. If someone can do it cheaper, better, faster, then you're out of luck. I hate it when the Gov tries to prop up an industry in the US thats lagging behind due to stiff competition over seas. If someone can do it cheaper, and people are willing to buy it, then thats what matters.

Reminds me way too much of the steel industry in the 90's. Japan was dumping cheap, better quality, steel on the international market. The US Steel industry wines about it, and the Gov sticks tariffs on imported steel. This as opposed to the US industry innovating or cutting costs.

Yes, losing your job sucks. But we have a very low unemployment rate in the US. You can find another job.

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

They will look for new jobs just like anyone else who ever got laid off.

No they won't. They will be resting during their retirement. Spending the big buyout check GM wrote them as incentive to retire.

No active GM worker will lose their job. The cuts will be made by retirees.

Did you read the articles? Or just knee-jerk react to everything? You should create an alias: "Fluffy head of cody dog".

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Kilbey

No they won't. They will be resting during their retirement. Spending the big buyout check GM wrote them as incentive to retire.

No active GM worker will lose their job. The cuts will be made by retirees.

Did you read the articles? Or just knee-jerk react to everything? You should create an alias: "Fluffy head of cody dog".

"The 25,000 jobs represent about 17 percent of GM's U.S. work force, which includes 111,000 unionized employees and another 39,000 salaried staff."

How do you close plants and only effect retirees?

[JoshuaZ]

By moving the jobs to China and or Mexico.

[ambush]

Originally Posted by Kilbey

Hate to break it to you guys, but anyone with any industry intelligence knew how many jobs GM was trying to eliminate years ago.

Article.


At my factory, over 80% of the hourly workers have the ability to retire. They replace at about a rate of 1 new worker for every 3 retiring. In Sept. 2007 when the current contract expires I expect over half of the workers at my factory to have retired.

It's sad when I see upper management focusing on job cuts and not design innovation as a way to save money. The Aztek is a perfect example. It was a VERY poor seller. Why? Because it's butt-ugly! Gues what? THEY'RE STILL MAKING IT!!! They are only selling them now because they are basically giving them away. They need to drop the Aztek, SSR, Aveo, Avalanche, and GTO NOW!!! They are destroying GM's reputation.

They need to get 2 door G6s on the road and more 2 door Cobalts now!

They need to make the Solstice as soon as possible. And make it mid-priced, not cheap or over-priced market niche like the GTO and SSR currently are.

GM has beat the the quality of most of the Asians, and now has a very efficient workforce.

Now they need to design cars that make people excited like the original Corvettes, Firebirds, GTOs, Rivieras, Monte Carlos, Fieros, and Le Mans.

And last but not least, make a reliable hybrid car (unlike Toyotas stalling piece of junk.)

My $0.02 as a current worker it a GM factory.

As a simple worker, though, you have absolutely no authority on that, which is pretty funny.

GM, like the US in general, is losing a lot against China/Asia. Funny.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

"The 25,000 jobs represent about 17 percent of GM's U.S. work force, which includes 111,000 unionized employees and another 39,000 salaried staff."

How do you close plants and only effect retirees?

Sometimes it actually pays to read the WHOLE article, not just the headline and first sentence:

"GM may be able to handle much of the reduction by offering early retirement incentives, said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, an independent research group, estimating that more than 25,000 of the company's U.S. workers are near retirement age."

...

"If the work force kept to last year's attrition rates, there would be a reduction of 7,000 to 8,000 employees this year without any plant closings, and three more years of those kind of gradual trimming could achieve much if not all of the 25,000 reduction in active staff."

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

Sometimes it actually pays to read the WHOLE article, not just the headline and first sentence:

"GM may be able to handle much of the reduction by offering early retirement incentives, said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, an independent research group, estimating that more than 25,000 of the company's U.S. workers are near retirement age."

...

"If the work force kept to last year's attrition rates, there would be a reduction of 7,000 to 8,000 employees this year without any plant closings, and three more years of those kind of gradual trimming could achieve much if not all of the 25,000 reduction in active staff."

"may be able to handle much" that's not all of them. They wouldn't close plants if they are just laying them off.

[the_glassman]

It's long time coming. If GM completely folded would anyone really notice or care? Even Dodge, and Ford are kicking their asses! Why is Buick still around?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

"may be able to handle much" that's not all of them. They wouldn't close plants if they are just laying them off.

It says much IF NOT all. It also says MORE than 25,000 workers are of near retirement age.

Plant cuts are over the next 3 1/2 years. This year (according the article) is excluded. The stated goal is maxium plant output for the plants that remain open. And why wouldn't you close an already unproductive plant where you've laid most of the workers off? Those that remain employed, could (as most big companies do) be relocated.


"GM's UAW contract essentially forces it to pay union employees during the life of the contract even if hourly workers are laid off and their plants are closed. But those protections only run through September 2007, when the current four-year pact with the union ends."

A union worker below retirement age who is laid off and plant closed wouldn't need to hit the bricks for another 2 years. People in other industries probably wish they had a safety net like that.

[Strix]

In Europe (under the guise of Vauxhall/Adam Opel) has rationalised in a number of countries including the UK. The only country not to be effected was Germany with its strong union links. Opel is still losing money in Europe, and where is it losing the money: Germany.

Workers at plants in Ruesselsheim went on strike when the job losses were announced, but it's inevitable that the jobs will go. GM have already cut the costs in countries where the unions are weak, however the UK and Spain are lean and (relatively) productive, and actually making money.....

[Tyre MacAdmin]

CEO's never amaze me.. automate, send offshore, cut America's jobs and get rich(er) So what are we supposed to do in the mind of the CEO? Go away, roll over and die, no longer needed. What's wrong with America today? Nobody thinks any more.... do you think your company could operate with out a CEO? Of course it could. They do the least amount of work, get paid the most, think the least yet their job is never in danger. Being a CEO is as easy as giving good speaches and presentations, and use the shake and bake stratagy above and golf every day. Beautful. Meanwhile the reset of America stays in debt and is getting eaten alive. When are we going to stand up and realize the situation we let our selves get in?

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by ambush

As a simple worker, though, you have absolutely no authority on that, which is pretty funny.

GM, like the US in general, is losing a lot against China/Asia. Funny.

We get quite a bit of info being stockholders and everything. I do have a vote in GMs doings.

As a simple worker, I draw a wage that is very enviable. Skilled trades are very respectable and command quite a bit of respect inside the company also.

Don't you still live with your crazy mommy?

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

"may be able to handle much" that's not all of them. They wouldn't close plants if they are just laying them off.

We have about 800 hourly workers at my plant. In a few years over half of them are going to retire. It would not make sense for GM to keep that plant open. They will move the operations at our plant to another close by. Consolidate operations under one roof.

Our plant is already about 40% empty. They could move the entire contents of the plant I work at into the Livonia facility in about two weeks.

That is how they are going to "close" plants.

The best part is my commute will be shorter to just about any Michigan plant.

You really don't understand the manufacturing industry do you. You should stick to making funny pictures.

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by the_glassman

It's long time coming. If GM completely folded would anyone really notice or care? Even Dodge, and Ford are kicking their asses! Why is Buick still around?

Really? GM sells quite a bit more cars then both Ford and Chrysler. Their quality is far above both of them too.

Buick? It's one of the most profitable divisions in GM. Buick engines are in a lot of GM cars.

Why do people who are so ignorant about the auto industry think they are experts here? It rather funny.

[ironknee]

kilbey

i know nothing about the car industry. my question is do you think this is good news? bad news? or par?

thx

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by ironknee

kilbey

i know nothing about the car industry. my question is do you think this is good news? bad news? or par?

thx

It's nothing new. Job cuts were already going at that rate. Plant closings were already planned. I guess plant "consolidations" were already planned is the correct way to phrase it.

The only disappointing news to me was the lack of focus on Management mistakes and a lack of focus on the design issues. In my opinion, GM needs to get back to making cutting edge designed cars at affordable prices.

They have been playing around with financing gimmicks for too long.

It's kind of like Office space anymore. I seriously have 8 bosses. There are 4 hourly workers in my classification, but there are 8 bosses to tell us what to do and analyze how well we are doing our jobs.

We also have "Break Area Design Engineers". Basically, they are supervisors who have been written up so many times they aren't allowed to work with hourly employees anymore so they have given them made up job titles.

GM really needs to cut the salary workforce more than the hourly workforce. Salary is pure overhead, whereas hourly employees actually make product that gets sold.

[RGB]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

They deserve it:

...and Honda doesn't?
http://handa-accessories.com/element/tentpoles.jpg

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by RGB

...and Honda doesn't?
http://handa-accessories.com/element/tentpoles.jpg

One thing going for the Aztek is that the center console is actually an ice cooler.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

American cars are too big and feel like empty shells to me....guess cause the target audience is most concerned with size rather than performance/efficiency. BUt ive always prefered elegence/efficiency/design to just plain size/power.....but thats just me.

Whaa? you can get TINY American cars that are efficient and have drivability and power.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by Kilbey

Really? GM sells quite a bit more cars then both Ford and Chrysler. Their quality is far above both of them too.
.

I would say the are about the same. Far above? Eh.

I've seen stats where all three have been on "top"

[the_glassman]

Originally Posted by Kilbey

Really? GM sells quite a bit more cars then both Ford and Chrysler. Their quality is far above both of them too.

Buick? It's one of the most profitable divisions in GM. Buick engines are in a lot of GM cars.

Why do people who are so ignorant about the auto industry think they are experts here? It rather funny.

I wasn't talking about cars sold, I was talking about a little thing called innovation. The SSR is a joke, and so is the new GTO. What about the peoples sports car (Corvette)? While I'm sure it's selling fine for now. But Cheby has it's head up it's @$$ with the upcoming Z06. What's the retail on one of those things? I'd take an SRT anything or a new Mustang over one any day of the week.
I would sure hope as the worlds largest automaker they would sell the most cars. And as far as quality is concerned, I don't care what JD Power or any other survey states. My personal experience with GM vehicles past and present is enough to make me not want to purchase one.

I'm surprised Buick sells any cars and makes any profit. Surely if Buicks sold so well they wouldn't be cutting the number of models down by 4 or 5 cars?
They could put Buick engines in all of the cars as far as I'm concerned, I still wouldn't buy a single one of them.

I never claimed to be expert, you're the only expert here.
Good luck on the sinking ship! Last one out turn out the lights.

[Zimphire]

Eh, the SRTs are nice. But taking it over the new Mustang.. come on...

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by the_glassman

I wasn't talking about cars sold, I was talking about a little thing called innovation. The SSR is a joke, and so is the new GTO. What about the peoples sports car (Corvette)?

I am not a fan of the SSR or the GTO. Didn't you read that above?

You should do a little research on inovation and GM. I am sure you'll be very surprised. Care to guess who was the first major manufacturer to bring a production electric car to market?

Originally Posted by the_glassman

While I'm sure it's selling fine for now. But Cheby has it's head up it's @$$ with the upcoming Z06. What's the retail on one of those things? I'd take an SRT anything or a new Mustang over one any day of the week.

HUH?!? It's still the best performing car for the money. And also one of the most innovative cars on the road. New mustang?!? Sure their nice lookin, but only because they took a step backwards in the design aspect. I thought you liked innovation?

Originally Posted by the_glassman

I would sure hope as the worlds largest automaker they would sell the most cars. And as far as quality is concerned, I don't care what JD Power or any other survey states.

Ahhh... I guess the media and the entire industry should beat a path to your door for you biased unscientific opinion on a subject you know very little about!

Originally Posted by the_glassman

My personal experience with GM vehicles past and present is enough to make me not want to purchase one.

The only manufacturer with a higher quality rating than GM is Toyota. And it is miniscule.

Originally Posted by the_glassman

I'm surprised Buick sells any cars and makes any profit.

Why are you surprised? There are hundreds of thousands of people who buy them repeatably. Do a little research on the 3800 engine that Buick developed.

Originally Posted by the_glassman

Surely if Buicks sold so well they wouldn't be cutting the number of models down by 4 or 5 cars?

Again, you are showing your ignorance. They are going to eliminate dual model cars like the Buick SUVs.

Originally Posted by the_glassman

They could put Buick engines in all of the cars as far as I'm concerned, I still wouldn't buy a single one of them.

Again, look up the 3800. The highest rating ever for quality and reliabilty. Highly efficient and plenty of power to spare

Originally Posted by the_glassman

I never claimed to be expert, you're the only expert here.

You certainly aren't an expert, that is well exposed in your posts.

Originally Posted by the_glassman

Good luck on the sinking ship! Last one out turn out the lights.

When I am finally done with all of the forced overtime I will certainly welcome a little slow down. BTW, check and see GMs current sales figures. They are up about 20% from last year.

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

I would say the are about the same. Far above? Eh.

I've seen stats where all three have been on "top"

All of them are very close. GM is slightly ahead though. But you're right, not by much. Any American made car is equal to most Asian manufacturer currently. And well above a few like Hundia(sp) and Suzuki. They are beating most European manufacturers in regards to quality.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by ironknee

kilbey

i know nothing about the car industry. my question is do you think this is good news? bad news? or par?

thx

Losing a ton of money and 25,000 layoffs is not a good thing.

[RGB]

Originally Posted by Kilbey

All of them are very close. GM is slightly ahead though. But you're right, not by much. Any American made car is equal to most Asian manufacturer currently. And well above a few like Hundia(sp) and Suzuki. They are beating most European manufacturers in regards to quality.

It seems Hyundai's been above almost everyone recently, actually...

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by RGB

It seems Hyundai's been above almost everyone recently, actually...

Do you have any recent charts or studies you can link to? I'd appreciate a current list for personal reference.

[ambush]

Originally Posted by Kilbey

We get quite a bit of info being stockholders and everything. I do have a vote in GMs doings.

As a simple worker, I draw a wage that is very enviable. Skilled trades are very respectable and command quite a bit of respect inside the company also.

Don't you still live with your crazy mommy?

Don't you ****ing get it? The Auto industry in the US has been on a constant decline since what? 30 years?

You're losing against Europe and Asia, it's as simple as that. It's a matter of time before you get the boot. Find a new job like now. If you can. I hear you're good at wrestling... maybe you should consider a career?

Hey, the most trusted name in news has a special page for you.

[wdlove]

It just seems that GM hasn't learned its lesson yet. Build a better car and they will come.

[Zimphire]

[RGB]

Originally Posted by Kilbey

Do you have any recent charts or studies you can link to? I'd appreciate a current list for personal reference.

http://money.cnn.com/2004/04/28/pf/a...qualitysurvey/

[budster101]

Did anyone see that PSA from Toyota about them raising their prices in order to help American Auto Manufacturers? They say it is because they wish to keep our relations positive in the future.

One Source of many