[Athens]

Bullets smashed through windows and hit the walls of at least five homes, the newspaper said.

Seriously perhaps these cops will need target training because this many rounds into a single car, and only hitting the target 4 times is just silly...

May 10, 10:21 AM (ET)

By DAISY NGUYEN

(AP) Los Angeles County Sheriff Commander Lee Baca takes questions from the media about a videotaped...
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LOS ANGELES (AP) - Authorities promised a full investigation Tuesday into why deputies riddled a sport utility vehicle and a Compton neighborhood with 120 bullets after the driver led them on a chase, wounding an unarmed driver and possibly striking a deputy.

"The question is: Did they have to fire as many rounds as they did?" Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca told NBC's "Today."

The driver, identified as 44-year-old Winston Hayes, had four gunshot wounds and was hospitalized in stable condition Tuesday morning, the Sheriff's Department said.

A deputy was knocked down and bruised when a bullet struck his protective vest during Monday's confrontation. His identity was not immediately released.


(AP) Los Angeles County Sheriff Commander Lee Baca takes questions from the media about a videotaped...
Full Image


"We're not sure how the deputy was injured but it could be from friendly fire," Baca said Monday.

The sheriff told "Today" that the deputies fired 120 rounds.

Deputies had received a shots-fired call early Monday in a neighborhood of Compton where there has been a rise in gang-related shootings. A white SUV had been identified as being involved, Baca said.

When deputies tried to stop Hayes' white Chevrolet Tahoe, he led them on a 12-minute chase at speeds of up to 35 mph, Baca said. Patrol cars tried to box in the SUV, but it drove onto a lawn and then backed into the street toward three deputies, authorities said.

An amateur videotape captured 10 deputies unleashing a fusillade against the unmoving SUV. The vehicle then rolled slowly forward and struck the back of a patrol car.


(AP) In this still video image released by Joshua Harville, deputies surround a SUV after firing a...
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Trina Hays, 42, said she threw herself onto her lawn when the shooting erupted 20 feet away.

"This is crazy, really, really crazy," she told the Times. "They didn't have any concern for anybody's life, including their own. That's why their own police officer got hit."

Bullets smashed through windows and hit the walls of at least five homes, the newspaper said.

No weapon was found in Hayes' vehicle but a dozen shell casings were found near the spot where the chase began, Baca said.

Hayes was expected to be booked for investigation of assault with a deadly weapon on a peace officer.

The sheriff said the shooting would be investigated by the department and the county district attorney's office. Investigators will try to determine whether some deputies opened fire because they mistook a colleague's friendly fire for an attacker's.

Hayes told deputies that he had used crack cocaine and had driven around the neighborhood for hours before deputies tried to stop him, Baca said.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050510/D8A0C6R00.html

[badidea]

...a 12-minute chase at speeds of up to 35 mph...

Did they "chase" that car by bike or what??

[Millennium]

Actually, I can see only hitting the target that few times if he's in a car. Bullets aren't exactly known for passing through solid objects unaffected.

[Athens]

my question is was there a need to shoot at all?

A few well aimed shoots to the wheels and engine will disable a car.

[James L]

Originally Posted by Athens

my question is was there a need to shoot at all?

A few well aimed shoots to the wheels and engine will disable a car.

While I agree with you that 120 rounds into a target does seem extreme, it isn't as simple as what you posted above.

I have seen cars drive over spike belts, blow out tires, and continue on the chase for a prolonged period of time. An engine block, depending on where the bullet enters, could easily take a shot and continue working.

Nope, if these officers deemed the driver a life threatening assailant, then they should fire directly into the passenger compartment of the vehicle to disable the threat.

120 rounds seems a bit panicky, though.

There are people with much more firearms experience here than I, but it is always much easier to hit a large target than a small one. If you are firing against a person, you have a much better chance of a torso hit, than when aiming for a small limb that is moving, for example. You shoot center mass not so much to stop the assailant, but to stop the threat.

In this case, knowing that the vehicle may not be disabled with a tire shot, etc... shooting into the passenger compartment may have well been justified. 120 rounds, which basically means all the cops emptied their clips, does seem panicky though.

It is hard to say though, as we weren't there.

[bubblewrap]

Ugh California.
And they call southerners stupid.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by James L

While I agree with you that 120 rounds into a target does seem extreme, it isn't as simple as what you posted above.

I have seen cars drive over spike belts, blow out tires, and continue on the chase for a prolonged period of time. An engine block, depending on where the bullet enters, could easily take a shot and continue working.

Nope, if these officers deemed the driver a life threatening assailant, then they should fire directly into the passenger compartment of the vehicle to disable the threat.

120 rounds seems a bit panicky, though.

There are people with much more firearms experience here than I, but it is always much easier to hit a large target than a small one. If you are firing against a person, you have a much better chance of a torso hit, than when aiming for a small limb that is moving, for example. You shoot center mass not so much to stop the assailant, but to stop the threat.

In this case, knowing that the vehicle may not be disabled with a tire shot, etc... shooting into the passenger compartment may have well been justified. 120 rounds, which basically means all the cops emptied their clips, does seem panicky though.

It is hard to say though, as we weren't there.

Oh I agree, im not faulting any of the cops for trying to shoot the guy vs disabling the car. But 120 rounds and they hit the guy 4 times, didn't kill him and hit one of there own LOL you gotta admit they are pretty bad shoots and I wouldnt want those cops protecting me.

[budster101]

This is old news... I thought it was hilarious and tragic at the same time. They should have to account for every bullet fired and why. That would holster their over-enthusiastic behavior.

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by bubblewrap

Ugh California.
And they call southerners stupid.

Something this stupid could happen anywhere

[budster101]

It happens more often than anywhere in California. They are the people sniping others on their highways. California is another culture compared to the rest of the USA.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by budster101

It happens more often than anywhere in California. They are the people sniping others on their highways. California is another culture compared to the rest of the USA.

better or worse?

[budster101]

? It is worse in California.

[Stradlater]

People make ridiculously broad generalizations about California. Plenty of people decide to hate it based on LA alone. California is one of the most amazingly diverse States in the nation; there's plenty of good to be found.

Might as well use Tijuana or Mexico City to judge that entire state.

[ghporter]

California has apparently prohibited police officers from firing at moving vehicles; this has apparently been implemented in both Los Angeles and San Franscisco. So I would say that they were prohibited from "disabling the vehicle" by shooting at it.

My biggest problem with this issue, though, is that with 120 rounds fired, so many of them went so wide of the mark. Only a few of the shots even hit the car! Come on! Aren't police officers of all types supposed to have enough marksmanship training to keep them from accidentally shooting innocent bystanders?

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by Athens

Seriously perhaps these cops will need target training because this many rounds into a single car, and only hitting the target 4 times is just silly...

Are you saying they only hit the car 4 times? Or the guy 4 times? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Ever fired a hand gun from a distance?

BTW: the vehicle was stopped.

[budster101]

Actually, California is one of the least diverse places in the USA... unless you think 50 percent of the people in LA being Latino is diverse...

California should change it's name to the New New Mexico...

You have the rich, then you have the people who cater to the rich in California. Really diverse.

You want diverse, come to the Midwest.

--

Attack of the Cops, Episode IXXXX (Who knows)

They hit the care hundreds of times.. I hope. The guy was struck I think 4 times but nothing near fatal. He didn't even have a gun...

The car was indeed moving but very slowly. These cops need to go to the range.

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by budster101

Actually, California is one of the least diverse places in the USA... unless you think 50 percent of the people in LA being Latino is diverse...

California should change it's name to the New New Mexico...

You have the rich, then you have the people who cater to the rich in California. Really diverse.

You want diverse, come to the Midwest.

Thanks very much, but I've lived all over this fair country, and while the Midwest is nice, it's fraught with the most extreme of colds and, currently, hots. By diverse, I meant climate. In CA, you have perfect beach weather, dry deserts, chilly snow-topped mountains, beautiful rolling fields, foggy European weather... The midwest has 8 months of cold winter and 2 months of hot summer over sometimes-beautiful, but usually flatly boring fields.

The Midwest, by and large, isn't that diverse, people-wise, either (class-wise, there are less extremes, sure...but then again, that's mostly when compared to the LA and San Diego southwest—you're ignoring the majority of California's space). The west coast and east coast both have had a wider group of different people, in my experience.

Don't get me wrong, the Midwest is a great place to live for a number of reasons, but so is California, so is New England and New Orleans and so are various other places in the east. You'd be a moron to discount California, as a whole, based on a small part of it.

[budster101]

Yeah, diverse temperature wise... San Francisco. 70 degrees all year round. Quite diverse. <kidding>

Just cut off the southern part from LA down, and you win.

I love the Midwest!! It's the best place to live in the world.

Minus:

The bitter cold winters
Hot Summers
Crazy people from Indiana
Crazy people from Iowa
Crazy people from Wisconsin

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by budster101

Yeah, diverse temperature wise... San Francisco. 70 degrees all year round. Quite diverse. <kidding>

Just cut off the southern part from LA down, and you win.

I love the Midwest!! It's the best place to live in the world.

Minus:

The bitter cold winters
Hot Summers
Crazy people from Indiana
Crazy people from Iowa
Crazy people from Wisconsin

Looks like we're in basic agreement, then

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by ghporter

California has apparently prohibited police officers from firing at moving vehicles; this has apparently been implemented in both Los Angeles and San Franscisco. So I would say that they were prohibited from "disabling the vehicle" by shooting at it.

My biggest problem with this issue, though, is that with 120 rounds fired, so many of them went so wide of the mark. Only a few of the shots even hit the car! Come on! Aren't police officers of all types supposed to have enough marksmanship training to keep them from accidentally shooting innocent bystanders?

Maybe they trained at the same school the Storm Troopers did.

[CreepingDeth]

Reminds me of an episode of Reno 911 when they were questioning Junior. The DA found out that he was as blind as a bat. He asked, "Do you operate a firearm?" to which Junior replied, "I'm the best shot of the force."

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Kilbey

Are you saying they only hit the car 4 times? Or the guy 4 times? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Ever fired a hand gun from a distance?

BTW: the vehicle was stopped.

yes I have fired a gun, I used to be in Guard in Sea Cadits, it was part of my training. And im assuming the person was the target not the car, so 4 out of 120, thats 3.3%.

[Spliff]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Maybe they trained at the same school the Storm Troopers did.

Zimphire, you've been "on" lately. Something change in your life recently? Whatever it is, keep 'em coming.

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by Athens

yes I have fired a gun, I used to be in Guard in Sea Cadits, it was part of my training. And im assuming the person was the target not the car, so 4 out of 120, thats 3.3%.

Nope, the target was the car. See what happens when you assume something instead of go with facts.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by Spliff

Zimphire, you've been "on" lately. Something change in your life recently? Whatever it is, keep 'em coming.

Getting more UV rays I think.