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MBP: Screen Tilt Angle Unacceptable To Some (Page 2)
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slffl
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Feb 22, 2006, 11:30 PM
 
From my measurements and of others

15" MBP = 125 degrees

17", 15", 12" PB = 135 degrees
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The Wolf
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Feb 22, 2006, 11:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by schalliol
As noted in the Shipment Thread, people are reporting a maximum screen tilt angle of 120°. Some posters have noted that this is makes the computer "completely useless," while others haven't expressed a subsantial concern. I recall when the Ti came out that Apple was touting that it could go back to basically flat, now we're quite a bit off of that it seems. Thoughts?
Thank you for posting this thread. I have a 1.5 AIBook which I upgraded to from my 500 Rev A. Ti. I effin loved the way the Ti would let me lay it out flat on my lap. I kinda forgot how uncomfortable the AIBook really is. Any less angle than the AIBook is simply unacceptable. I no longer long for the orp bm. Cheers!
     
photoeditor
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Feb 23, 2006, 01:13 AM
 
The 12 inch screen opens substantially farther than the 15 as far as the PowerBook is concerned. I always assumed that the thicker the computer, the farther the lid had to go before it hit the desktop or the back of the computer. When I saw how thin the MacBook was, I was concerned the screen opening could be a problem, as I don't think the 15 PowerBook is overly generous. The 12 inch Powerbook on the other hand is tremendously flexible; it opens comfortably (i.e. smoothly and without straining the hinge) farther than the TiBook.

From the person above who said the restriction seemed to be in the hinge rather than on the desktop; I would assume then that the "standoff" part of the hinge that goes at a right angle must be shorter the thinner the computer is, and that what is happening is that the sides of the bottom of the screen are hitting the back of the computer before they hit the desk on the thinner laptops.
     
mrmister
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Feb 23, 2006, 03:14 AM
 
"From the person above who said the restriction seemed to be in the hinge rather than on the desktop; I would assume then that the "standoff" part of the hinge that goes at a right angle must be shorter the thinner the computer is, and that what is happening is that the sides of the bottom of the screen are hitting the back of the computer before they hit the desk on the thinner laptops."

Saw a MBP tonight, and that is exactly what is happening...which is both bad and good.

It's good in that it isn't an arbitrary Apple decision, but it is bad in that it will be difficult for Apple to change this in future MBP revisions.

I hope we don't get too many obnoxious posts from people unaffected by this...it obviously does affect some folks. I will need to experiment with a MBP further, maybe even with a Podium Coolpad, to see if it will be an issue for me.
     
ism
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Feb 23, 2006, 07:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by thephotodork
remember everyone, heat sources placed on the pelvic region is bad for the swimmers . . . .

at least for those of us with swimmers . . .
Remember, relying on a 12" powerbook as a form of contraception is not guaranteed to work. At least it didn't work here.
     
hakstooy
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Feb 23, 2006, 08:58 AM
 
I was looking at a MacBook Pro in the Apple store and I can confirm the limitation is caused by the screen hitting the base of the computer. It appears that photoeditor is correct in that since the hinge design is the same as the AlBooks yet it is a good bit thinner, the "arm" (for lack of better term) is shorter and thus causes the screen to impinge on the base sooner.

I can't attest to the 15" AlBook but the screen DEFINITELY opens NOTICEABLY less than my 12". In many uses outside of the standard "using it on a desk" I could see this being a huge annoyance.

To illustrate, I was using the MacBook on one of the white podiums at the Apple store (I'm sure most here have seen one of these) and I could not open the screen enough to have it properly oriented to my face when I was using it standing up, I had to stoop. And I'm only 5'7". So, using it sitting on a table while you show friends or something is going to be a hassle because everyone is going to have to bend down to get a good view.

I am hoping that this is just a limitation of using the AlBook design and that Apple simply doesn't see screen flexibility as unimportant (you'd never think so after the G4 iMac). So that perhaps the *new* IntelBooks with Merom or whatever will be redesigned to account for the new design parameters offered by the Intel chips and antenna arrangement.

Yet, regardless, for a company so concerned with industrial design, this is a huge faux pas. Part of industrial design is user interaction and this is simply a pathetic example of such.
( Last edited by hakstooy; Feb 23, 2006 at 09:20 AM. )
     
The Wolf
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Feb 23, 2006, 09:08 AM
 
It bothers me so much that I would pay for an aftermarket mod (if it existed), even if it meant voiding my warranty.
     
Sijmen
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Feb 23, 2006, 09:28 AM
 
Reading the complaints on the tilt of the screen makes me wonder if the MPB is a good buy. When the PB's on my lap the screen is tilted almost to the max. I have my feet on the table, so my legs are slightly bent.
having the limitation of 120 degrees will definitily be a bad thing if I ever buy an MBP.
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gmsmith
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Feb 23, 2006, 09:39 AM
 
Is anyone actually listening to this whole thread? I mean really...next thing we are going to start complaining about is the color is slightly darker then the old powerbooks. People will go on tyraids about needing to return it because it doesn't match their current accessories.
     
analogika
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Feb 23, 2006, 09:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by gmsmith
Is anyone actually listening to this whole thread? I mean really...next thing we are going to start complaining about is the color is slightly darker then the old powerbooks. People will go on tyraids about needing to return it because it doesn't match their current accessories.
If you don't get what people are talking about, then just STFU.


How far the screen opens DOES impact how well you can interact with the machine in certain circumstances.

I know I miss how much farther the 12" Powerbook could open up when I'm sitting on the living room sofa using my current 15" Powerbook.

It's not enough of an issue for me to not make me want a Core Duo replacement machine once a 13" model appears, but it does mean that I shift the 'book around a bit before the angle becomes comfortable at times.
     
schalliol  (op)
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Feb 23, 2006, 10:08 AM
 
I think the point here is that at some level the tilt of the screen is important. Different users will different requirements. It sounds as though some think the MBP's tilt doesn't meet their requirements, which is something they would've liked to know prior to making a non-refundable purchase. The output then seems to be:
  1. In the future, Apple should make screen tilt angle a published specification
  2. Some users desire a tilt angle exceeding the MBP's 125°
  3. If it doesn't compromise the design, many would like the lid to be able to be opened flat, or close to it.

Anything we're missing here?
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pete
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Feb 23, 2006, 10:21 AM
 
It's not that I always need to open my powerbook beyond 135 degrees, but sometimes I do and it annoys me that I can't. The question is really why? Almost all PC laptops are capable of opening more without any problems, how come Apple has decided not to allow this?

They could have at least kept the albook capability....
     
cambro
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Feb 23, 2006, 10:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by pete
They could have at least kept the albook capability....
Exactly...that is the point.

Wether you PERSONALLY think the MBP's particular screen angle is important or not is irrelevant. The MBP maximum screen angle is SMALLER than previous versions. What if the next revision is 2º narrower? The next 5º narrower? This is clearly going in the wrong direction and people are right to point out the problem.

It was extremely poor design on Apple's part to impose a constraint impacting flexibility. The whole point of a laptop is to be powerful and flexible under a variety of unusual circumstances (plane, train, car, bed, couch, floor, podium w/ ANGLE, etc. etc.).
     
Enigmaaron
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Feb 23, 2006, 10:53 AM
 
Clearly many would find it helpful to have the angle of opening quantified in the specs somewhere as Schalliol said. Seems obvious to me Apple made a design decision years ago when they switched to the titanium powerbooks and snow white ibooks to sacrifice how far the screen opened for the sleek form of the machine. If I remember correctly the clamshell ibooks could open at least 180 degrees if not further, I'm not sure about the powerbooks but I believe they could open almost 180 as well (please correct me if I am wrong).

Personally I couldn't care less; it opens far enough for me. Do I think they made a mistake in making the angle smaller? Yes. Just let Apple know in a nice respectful way that this limitation impacts the usability for you and maybe they will rework their design.

For those of you who already bought your MacBook Pros and are raising a huge stink just remember that you bought this product sight unseen. If how far the screen opened is that big of a factor then maybe you should have waited. Did Apple mention how far the screen opened when they switched to the titanium/snow models? I doubt it, and that was a much more drastic change. Don't hold your breath expecting Apple to list this specification, if it is that important to you do yourself a favor and use one hands on before purchasing.
     
cambro
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Feb 23, 2006, 10:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Enigmaaron
Did Apple mention how far the screen opened when they switched to the titanium/snow models?
My Titanium PB can open virtually all the way to 180º.

I agree with your post, though. This needs to be brought up, but I guess I wouldn't blame the purchaser. Every revision of the PB since the Ti has apparently had a narrower screen angle. I think people that are used to dealing with Apple are used to improvements, not directional trends towards being more and more and more constrained.
     
Enigmaaron
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Feb 23, 2006, 10:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by cambro
My Titanium PB can open virtually all the way to 180º.

I agree with you post, though. This needs to be brought up.
Yeah I just looked at some pics and looks like the 15" powerbook G4 didn't get limited until it was revisioned in line with the 12/17"
     
pete
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Feb 23, 2006, 11:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by Enigmaaron
For those of you who already bought your MacBook Pros and are raising a huge stink just remember that you bought this product sight unseen. If how far the screen opened is that big of a factor then maybe you should have waited. Did Apple mention how far the screen opened when they switched to the titanium/snow models? I doubt it, and that was a much more drastic change. Don't hold your breath expecting Apple to list this specification, if it is that important to you do yourself a favor and use one hands on before purchasing.

I think it was natural to assume that the opening angle would not be changed from previous generation given that the general form factor is the same and given that the albooks were already quite limited in angle. I can understand that this would not even be something that one would think about. However, my general inclination is to NEVER buy a product before you've seen it or at least to make sure there is a generous unconditional return policy in place.
     
JKT
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Feb 23, 2006, 11:25 AM
 
The design of the hinge mechanism in the Al PowerBooks is there to reduce the overall height of the machine when the lid is opened so that it is possible to see more of the screen when it is sitting on a seat tray while travelling. If you hadn't noticed already, because of the way it works, the top edge of the screen is always a good 2 to 3 cm lower down than it would be with a conventional hinge mechanism. Bitch and moan if you like, but there were good design reasons for doing it the way it was done. As with everything in laptop (or any computer) design, it is a compromise of features to suit the majority rather than the minority. I don't see why this has come as a surprise to any of you. It isn't as though the AlBooks haven't been around for 3 or 4 years.
     
schalliol  (op)
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Feb 23, 2006, 11:27 AM
 
JKT, I think people have an issue with it being a smaller angle than in the Al. Some must not have an issue with Al, but find that the MBPs becomes one. Thanks for the insight as to the reason the hinge works as it does. I certainly have issues on planes with my Ti.
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Enigmaaron
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Feb 23, 2006, 11:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by JKT
The design of the hinge mechanism in the Al PowerBooks is there to reduce the overall height of the machine when the lid is opened so that it is possible to see more of the screen when it is sitting on a seat tray while travelling. If you hadn't noticed already, because of the way it works, the top edge of the screen is always a good 2 to 3 cm lower down than it would be with a conventional hinge mechanism. Bitch and moan if you like, but there were good design reasons for doing it the way it was done. As with everything in laptop (or any computer) design, it is a compromise of features to suit the majority rather than the minority. I don't see why this has come as a surprise to any of you. It isn't as though the AlBooks haven't been around for 3 or 4 years.
I knew it! There was a reason for lowering the screen. I thought I remembered Apple saying something about that when the design first came out, just couldn't remember. Good recall.
     
JKT
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Feb 23, 2006, 11:31 AM
 
It was more a comment to all the people jumping on the thread and complaining about not being able to lay it flat... There hasn't been an Apple laptop capable of that for 3+ years.
     
slffl
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Feb 23, 2006, 11:46 AM
 
Wow, the screen is not hitting the base!! At least on mine. I have a MBP and have looked at it extensively with a nice bright light behind it and there are GAPS between the screen and base. Whatever is limiting it is in the hinge.
"I'm the commander - see, I don't need to explain - I don't need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being the President. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."

- Dictator George W. Bush, Washington Post, 11-19-02
     
slffl
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Feb 23, 2006, 11:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Wolf
It bothers me so much that I would pay for an aftermarket mod (if it existed), even if it meant voiding my warranty.
I second that. I think Apple should be doing this for free! Everytime I use this on my lap I feel like ripping the damn thing off.
"I'm the commander - see, I don't need to explain - I don't need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being the President. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."

- Dictator George W. Bush, Washington Post, 11-19-02
     
mrmister
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Feb 23, 2006, 12:25 PM
 
"It was more a comment to all the people jumping on the thread and complaining about not being able to lay it flat... There hasn't been an Apple laptop capable of that for 3+ years."

I think most folks on this thread are distressed because it isn't capable of the same flexibility of the AlBook. I remember when the AlBooks were introduced, and while a few people didn't like the loss of flexibility then, there was overwhelming support for better, stronger hinges.

This is different--this impacts the way a high number of people use their laptops. An informal survey of laptop users I was talking to last night pegged it at about 10%...and if 10% of the user base actually find this change annoying in day to day use--well, that's a pretty high percentage.

Also, those who have little patience--remember that this is ergonomics, which in many ways is literally the most important element in using a laptop. If you are accostumed to buying an AlBook and using it a certain way in presentations, or on you desk with an elevated keyboard, and you bought the next laptop from Apple that looks like an AlBook mechanically and conventional wisdom is that it is the same casing...you would be pretty alarmed if it can't do what you suspected it could.

All that said, I need to play with a MBP more to know if it will work with what *I* need it to do--but I'm alarmed that since the MBP has showed up:

--it's hotter than the AlBook
--it has marginal battery life, which many think is shorter than the AlBook
--it has a heavier and larger power adapter
--it lost FW800, PCCARD, Modem and S-Video ports
--it's less flexible than the AlBook

I have to admit--it worries me, as a longtime Apple PowerBook user.

I know the MBP will be fast...it better be, to make up for all these other areas where I feel like its design is falling behind.
     
hakstooy
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Feb 23, 2006, 02:26 PM
 
I think mrmister has some good points about the reduced capabilities of the MacBook Pro compared to the iBook. It is a very disturbing trend that seems to reduced the "user-friendliness" of the laptop, making the user conform to the computer and not the other way around. And, like it or not, it shows that Apple had higher priorities with this revision than ergonomics and general flexibility.

Personally, I hope that these limitations are the result of this being a "stop-gap" platform, pushed out in order to get mobile Macs into the same performance league as their competition. That now that the Apple engineers have some x86 experience the new "Merom" powered MacBook Pro or whatever is fully redesigned.

As for the screen, I had not seen this thread before I went to the Apple store and literally, the first thing that came into my head when I went to try it out was "What's the deal with the screen?" It is very noticable (at least to the user of a 12" PowerBook), and for anyone who uses their laptop in their lap, or in bed, or in the kitchen, or on the floor, or... well anywhere outside of a desk and chair, this WILL be a hindrance.

This is a very poor design choice, it makes the 15" more of a desktop replacement than a thin & light. It might not affect everyone, but I don't see the point of making a laptop so thin and light that it is so easily transported yet make it so hot that it can't be used on a lap, has poor battery life and has such limited screen flexibility that it can only be used in a few limited positions.

I already ordered my BTO MacBook and I'm sure I'll enjoy it, but where I absolutely LOVE using my highly flexible and portable 12" (except for the small, dim screen) I am also sure it will frequently annoy me by forcing me to change my work habits to suit its rather constricting limitations. I only hope the next revision can improve the ergonomics and if so, I'll sell my MacBook and get a new one.
     
Enigmaaron
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Feb 23, 2006, 03:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by slffl
Wow, the screen is not hitting the base!! At least on mine. I have a MBP and have looked at it extensively with a nice bright light behind it and there are GAPS between the screen and base. Whatever is limiting it is in the hinge.
Ok let's be realistic here. There are very small gaps that you can see a crack of light through on either side of the hinge. On mine I can't even slide a piece of paper into this gap. This is a good thing, the screen should not be rubbing against the base. If your gaps are larger than this then there is probably something wrong with your laptop. If you think tilting your screen back less than the thickness of a piece of paper will make a difference then there is something wrong with you.
     
cdetdi
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Feb 23, 2006, 04:25 PM
 
I don't understand why some people are so passionate about bashing those that have issue with the screen tilt. I use my 15PB at full opening all the time, I can't imagine it being any less. Most other laptops outside of Apple have hinges that can open 180 degrees. This is absolutely necessary for working with your knees up. (say if you are sitting against a tree in a park). Thats only one example where the screen needs a good deal of flexibility. The limitation of the PoweBook screen limits its use, and further limiting the screen angle is really unfortunate.

I'm glad someone brought it up, I'll look at the MBP more closely to see if it fits what I need.
I'd rather be playing ultimate...

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AShul007
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Feb 23, 2006, 05:18 PM
 
Has anyone contacted apple about this? I did and they are oblivious to it....why dont they know anything about their own products?
     
schalliol  (op)
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Feb 23, 2006, 05:19 PM
 
Ok, so, Griffin Technology, can you make some accessories to help folks? I'm not sure exactly what accessories we'd see, but I bet there are some applications where it would work. What about a backwards iCurve or CoolPad for some ocassions?
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schalliol  (op)
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Feb 23, 2006, 05:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by AShul007
Has anyone contacted apple about this? I did and they are oblivious to it....why dont they know anything about their own products?
Well, the customer service rep might not know about each difficulty someone could have, yet of course apple knows.
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AShul007
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Feb 23, 2006, 05:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by schalliol
Well, the customer service rep might not know about each difficulty someone could have, yet of course apple knows.

Not even technical support knew...nobody has even used it it seems.
     
schalliol  (op)
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Feb 23, 2006, 05:27 PM
 
Right, technical support = customer service. They just got these units, and probably weren't told about it because it's not a problem in their eyes. However, Apple engineering made the decision to do this and probably knew fully about the ramafactions.
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mrmister
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Feb 23, 2006, 05:35 PM
 
"However, Apple engineering made the decision to do this and probably knew fully about the ramafactions."

I suspect that they don't actually know the ramifications, as it really is going to cut out a sizable chunk of their buying public.
     
AShul007
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Feb 23, 2006, 05:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by mrmister
"However, Apple engineering made the decision to do this and probably knew fully about the ramafactions."

I suspect that they don't actually know the ramifications, as it really is going to cut out a sizable chunk of their buying public.

I know...im really up in the air about my purchase now...I ordered mine jan. 23 so I probably have a day or two more left before I can cancel it. It is really disappointing -- I wish there could be some sort of dialogue with them regarding this and/or I wish I knew if it was something that would be fixed eventually.
     
schalliol  (op)
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Feb 23, 2006, 06:11 PM
 
I seriously doubt that Apple is going to go through all the trouble of engineering a new product with a new hinge and not compare it to the tilt of previous units. As you may recall from earlier in this thread, Apple touted the angle of the Ti as a feature.
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AShul007
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Feb 23, 2006, 06:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by schalliol
I seriously doubt that Apple is going to go through all the trouble of engineering a new product with a new hinge and not compare it to the tilt of previous units. As you may recall from earlier in this thread, Apple touted the angle of the Ti as a feature.
I do remember that, but I really cant imagine how they think it is a bonus...
Do we think that this will be remedied in future models of the macbook? Or this is how it will stay?
     
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Feb 23, 2006, 06:39 PM
 
The best thing you can do if you think the angle is too narrow is to go to http://www.apple.com/feedback , pick the PowerBook (don't worry, you can specify which system you actually own later), and fill things out. It's not a flaw in the same way that a bad display would be, so you have to get the word to the design engineers - not the support people on the phone!
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Feb 23, 2006, 06:46 PM
 
Why is everyone jumping down JKT's throat for offering a perfectly rational explanation? The macbook pro is a "pro" laptop. It is not meant to be a used like a cheap iBook like machine on your lap while sitting on the grasss somewhere. It is supposed to be used on a flat work surface like an airplane or train seat tray or desk. If you want something more casual, I'd suggest waiting for the macbook (replacement for the iBook) which I'm sure will be designed for more casual use.

Those cooling platforms should offer several angle settings so this shoudl not be a problem. If it is a problem, I'd suggest looking for a new cooling platform.
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cambro
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Feb 23, 2006, 06:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Commodus
Great link! Didn't know there was a feedback form for hardware.

Everyone who thinks the restricted angle on the MacBook stinks should FILL OUT THE FORM!!
     
mrmister
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Feb 23, 2006, 06:57 PM
 
"The macbook pro is a "pro" laptop. It is not meant to be a used like a cheap iBook like machine on your lap while sitting on the grasss somewhere."

Frankly, that's retarded. The fact is that it's less versatile than the last generation of PowerBooks, and for some people it is a serious issue--to imply that using the "mobile" part of what is a mobile solution is somehow "cheap" is boorish, stupid and elitist. In the real world a laptop is used in a variety of environments including, unsurprising, LAPS. Laptops that lose features and flexibility are a very real issue, and can't just be handwaved away by saying "oh, you're using it wrong."
     
cambro
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Feb 23, 2006, 06:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles
The macbook pro is a "pro" laptop. It is not meant to be a used like a cheap iBook like machine on your lap while sitting on the grasss somewhere. It is supposed to be used on a flat work surface like an airplane or train seat tray or desk.
You are kidding, right?

mrmister is right, it's about a trend, apparently since the Ti, of greater and greater constraint on the user interface of the hardware. This is just a bad idea in general, but *especially* in a PORTABLE computing device.
     
jeebus
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Feb 23, 2006, 07:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by cdetdi
I don't understand why some people are so passionate about bashing those that have issue with the screen tilt.
It's not like (most) people here are sick malicious people who take delight in harassing strangers on the internet. I think we all have much better things to do with our time. But we've all seen pictures of how far the screen tilts back and it is farther than I tilt my titanium back (which could go much farther than the alu G4s if I wanted it to). Sure some users who use their laptops in very... unique ways are having trouble. I'm not saying it's not an issue but it certainly is not nearly as big as some are making it out to be.

Originally Posted by cdetdi
I use my 15PB at full opening all the time, I can't imagine it being any less. Most other laptops outside of Apple have hinges that can open 180 degrees. This is absolutely necessary for working with your knees up. (say if you are sitting against a tree in a park). Thats only one example where the screen needs a good deal of flexibility. The limitation of the PoweBook screen limits its use, and further limiting the screen angle is really unfortunate.
Okay first of all the powerbook is a pro machine, it is designed for serious professionals doing work on the road. How many users actually use their powerbooks sitting at trees in parks? I would much rather have a stronger hinge that tilts the screen down (not like the Ti's and other laptops that go back almost 180) even if it means sacrificing "park usability". Plus, even if I were sitting at a tree in a park, what's with this "knees up" business? Can you not just lay your legs flat on the ground and have it sitting in your lap? This is what I do on the couch I imagine scrunching my knees up for hours would be much less comfortable.

As everyone may recall, this type of hinge was first introduced with the dual USB iBook (when the TiBook was still current) and everyone raved about the hinge because it tilted the screen down in such a way that it was at a much better angle than typical hinges (a la the TiBook and typical PC laptops) and was especially great (as said before) for planes. That's why Apple put that hinge on the alu powerbooks when they came out. I don't know for sure that Apple put this limitation in on purpose, I'm far more inclined to believe that the limitation is a result of the hinge being longer (to fit the antennas) and the MBP being the thinnest laptop Apple has ever shipped.

For some users being able to tilt the screen back 180 degrees is paramount (about 10%, as suggested earlier), but most would prefer the superior hinge/thin laptop much more and find the current viewing angle sufficient. I'm sorry but your needs are simply outweighed by those of the vast majority.
     
cambro
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Feb 23, 2006, 07:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by jeebus
I would much rather have a stronger hinge that tilts the screen down (not like the Ti's and other laptops that go back almost 180) even if it means sacrificing "park usability".
*sigh*

The whole point is that you shouldn't HAVE TO sacrifice anything.

I guarantee you there is an engineering solution that accomodates your desk needs, has wicked hinge durability, and does not make screen angle a constraint that 10%+ people would recognize (say 165º?).

Either blantant oversight, a rush to market, or a design flaw in positioning another component is to blame here. You simply cannot argue that "its good enough" or "it's not a problem." On the grand scheme of what could go wrong, it's minor, but on the grand scheme of building the best possible laptop, it fails, IMO.
     
slffl
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Feb 23, 2006, 07:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by jeebus
For some users being able to tilt the screen back 180 degrees is paramount (about 10%, as suggested earlier), but most would prefer the superior hinge/thin laptop much more and find the current viewing angle sufficient. I'm sorry but your needs are simply outweighed by those of the vast majority.
First I can't stand 'majority rules' arguments. If the majority had their say, apples laptops would look like PC laptops.

Secondly, the 15" MBP is the same thickness (1" - 2.59cm) as the 17" PB (1" - ? cm). The 17" PB tilts back 135 degrees. Now why doesn't the 15" MBP tilt back the same?
"I'm the commander - see, I don't need to explain - I don't need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being the President. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."

- Dictator George W. Bush, Washington Post, 11-19-02
     
slffl
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Feb 23, 2006, 08:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by cambro
Great link! Didn't know there was a feedback form for hardware.

Everyone who thinks the restricted angle on the MacBook stinks should FILL OUT THE FORM!!
I left my feedback.
"I'm the commander - see, I don't need to explain - I don't need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being the President. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."

- Dictator George W. Bush, Washington Post, 11-19-02
     
Kenstee
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Feb 23, 2006, 08:08 PM
 
Personally, I'd return it. The screen angle issue and the battery life (or lack of it) would be a deal killer for me personally for this Rev. You can be sure this will be addressed in Rev B in a few months.

The deal with the Intel switch was significantly longer battery life and way less heat. I still maintain this Rev A was rushed out to market to meet an artificial deadline. The "real" MBP will appear with Memron later this year or early next.

Why people insist on spending $2k+ on something they've never seen or read any users review about never ceases to be a mystery to me.
     
drift1492
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Feb 23, 2006, 08:12 PM
 
Will somone please post a pic of the MBP side by side with a PB (taken from the side of course) to show us the difference?
     
inkhead
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Feb 23, 2006, 08:13 PM
 
Okay hold up for one second I agree that I'd rather it be wider... but if i set my macbook pro on my coffee table and stand up, I can still see it PERFECTLY. Why? Because the SCREEN IS BLOODY BEAUTIFUL. It's not that much of a problem. I think it's really being blown out of proportion.

It's 100x better than using my current revision G4 Powerbook on the coffee table open wider.

It's not going to be A PROBLEM FOR PRESENTATIONS.
     
JKT
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Feb 23, 2006, 08:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles
Why is everyone jumping down JKT's throat for offering a perfectly rational explanation?
They are? I didn't notice them doing it. The complaints some have are valid to them, though I can't relate to them myself (I'm sitting upright looking at my PB and purposefully using it at a 120 deg angle on my lap and I have no problem seeing the screen myself - I'm 1m 87cm/6' 2" so its not as though I'm some squat dwarf - maybe it's the way I sit?). I also can't say that I have once found the inability to open my laptop all the way back in any way limiting but then again, this one I have now is my first so I don't know any different.
     
mduell
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Feb 23, 2006, 08:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by mrmister
I suspect that they don't actually know the ramifications, as it really is going to cut out a sizable chunk of their buying public.
No, it's not. Why are you trying to blow the marginal reduction in screen angle out of proportion?

I don't buy into the "pro notebooks aren't used on laps" arguement either. I'm not a fan of the hinge system Apple uses, but it allows them to make the screen slimmer; thin seems to be more important than function to Apple.
     
 
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