[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Quoted for clueness irony.

Quoted for posterity!!

V

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

(seriously, I assumed ST:TOS was recorded on TV cameras, because it was seriously low budget. Film is expensive)

V

Yeah I don't think they had videotape back then did they? And Star Trek was the most expensive highest budget TV series of all time back then.... it just looks low budget today because we are living in the future.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Yeah I don't think they had videotape back then did they? And Star Trek was the most expensive highest budget TV series of all time back then.... it just looks low budget today because we are living in the future.

Videotape was invented in the late 50s and used in TV from 1960.. but anyway... they didn't use it for Star Trek after all.

Now if this is the future.. then beam me up Scotty

V

[Eug]

It would seem that the price drops on the Toshiba players has had an effect. Software sales for HD DVD have been good for the past week, at least at Amazon.

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Videotape was invented in the late 50s and used in TV from 1960.. but anyway... they didn't use it for Star Trek after all.

Star Trek is a sci-fi show. Videotape of that era wasn't really set up for that.

[PaperNotes]

Whoa. A blip on the Amazon graph. So special. Just watch how many more Blu-ray disc sales there'll be soon now that the PS3 is selling cheaper too. Post Xmas sales figures for Blu-ray movies should kill this silly HD-DVD fan dribble for once and for all.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Star Trek is a sci-fi show. Videotape of that era wasn't really set up for that.

Allright, I accept your apology.

V

[Eug]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Whoa. A blip on the Amazon graph. So special. Just watch how many more Blu-ray disc sales there'll be soon now that the PS3 is selling cheaper too. Post Xmas sales figures for Blu-ray movies should kill this silly HD-DVD fan dribble for once and for all.

As indicated by those in the industry, a big movement in hardware sales in 2007 Q4 seemed to be Toshiba business plan all along. We've been saying this for quite some time now, but the argument by some was that HD DVD could not move enough hardware to affect the software sales like this. That argument did have merit because we couldn't predict the future. However, now that there is evidence it has happened, the argument from some Blu-ray fanboys changes.

It's of course important if Sony moves a lot of PS3 units, but it's also important to note that Blu-ray standalone players continue to lag in sales. And I will reiterate that Warner Home Video CEO's own statement from September: ""It will be really pivotal what Toshiba does this fourth quarter in hardware."

While some Blu-ray fans will simply dismiss Toshiba's hardware push, we already know that the studios are watching this "silly HD DVD fan dribble" very, very closely.

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Allright, I accept your apology.

Heh. I expected that response, which is sad, considering I was actually trying to be diplomatic.

You might want to read up on the technology of the time before calling others in this thread "braindead", since it's quite clear you have little understanding of the technology.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Heh. I expected that response, which is sad, considering I was actually trying to be diplomatic.

You might want to read up on the technology of the time before making such pronouncements that you did, especially before calling others in this thread "braindead", since it's quite clear you have little understanding of the technology.

Diplomatic after attacking me out of the blue? How noble of you..

You know you are *supposed* to be diplomatic in all posts. That's the gist of the forum rules.

Empty accusations on my person will only get you in trouble. It is indeed *your* lack of reading history that prevents you from knowing one simple fact. Video was used to record and broadcast television from 1960.

That strange feeling you just felt was you being nailed. By me.

V

[Eug]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Diplomatic after attacking me out of the blue? How noble of you..

You know you are *supposed* to be diplomatic in all posts. That's the gist of the forum rules.

Empty accusations on my person will only get you in trouble. It is indeed *your* lack of reading history that prevents you from knowing one simple fact. Video was used to record and broadcast television from 1960.

That strange feeling you just felt was you being nailed. By me.

Again, go read up on the technology. Star Trek was a sci fi show. First, videotape of the 1950s and 1960s simply wasn't feasible as a medium for the stuff in that show. (BTW, I never claimed videotape didn't exist back then. You are confusing somebody else's post.) Second, videotape was very, very expensive. Third, Star Trek had one of the most expensive TV pilots ever created up until that time. Fourth, your statement that you thought the show was "recorded on TV cameras" doesn't even make sense, because "TV cameras" is not a storage format.

Basically you were wrong on all counts. It's all documented here, so as much you're trying to cover, we see through it. And if you're going to start quoting forum rules, you may as well follow them yourself. "You know you are *supposed* to be diplomatic in all posts. That's the gist of the forum rules." My "Quoted for clueness irony." comment was only after you started calling others "braindead". Some of them were wrong on some points, yes, but you were wrong on even more.

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Well gosh darn golly, maybe if you read what you quoted you wouldn't ask braindead questions, now would ya?!

That has to be the dumbest question I've had all week.

Not saying you are dumb, just for the record.

V

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Hmm.. that means I'll have to get Miami Vice in HD! Yay!!

(seriously, I assumed ST:TOS was recorded on TV cameras, because it was seriously low budget. Film is expensive)

V

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

You know you are *supposed* to be diplomatic in all posts. That's the gist of the forum rules.

Yeah I heard people giggling like little school girls as you typed that voodoo.

Ever been a big fan of the band Testament?



Scholnick was cool, but other than that. .

Wonder if they have any HD-DVDs out or BlueRays.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Empty accusations on my person will only get you in trouble. It is indeed *your* lack of reading history that prevents you from knowing one simple fact. Video was used to record and broadcast television from 1960.

That strange feeling you just felt was you being nailed. By me.

V

I don't know what you're talking about. Eug didn't say anything about video not being used at that time.

And BE NICE everyone.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I just ordered the Star Trek Season One (Original Series) HD DVD / DVD Combo set which came out today. I was holding off because of the price, but couldn't pass up the DeepDiscount deal for $106.

The sales of this should be interesting, as there is just the one SKU for both the HD DVD and DVD... They both come in the one package. There is no DVD-only version.

Well, my ST order shipped a couple of days ago. However, I hear that the packaging sucks. A few have reported receiving their copies with damage in the plastic shell. I hope I'm not gonna be in the same boat.

I've already had a major problem due to shippers. I got a lampshade iMac of eBhey, and it came on Friday... with the screen bezel broken off.

Originally Posted by goMac 

They could really do some great stuff if they redid the CG though. Generations was the first mostly computer rendered nextgen movie and it looked great.

They could... if they're willing to spend the cash. However, while the powers that be may not be willing to spend the money on shows like Babylon 5, they might be for ST: TNG. Bigger audience.

I won't be buying though. I really want the original series. I'm less interested in TNG.

[cjrivera]

Well, just jumped on board the Blu-Ray train.
There was a deal at Wal-Mart for an 80gb PS3 with 10 free Blu-ray discs in addition to the 5 free BR discs by mail in rebate.
15 free movies was what helped me pull the trigger.
I guess now I have to wait and find a good deal like this one on a HD-DVD player...

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Ironically, it may be harder to get Star Trek: The Next Generation out on HD, because the show was targeted for SD video and I believe the CG effects were all SD.

The sad thing is it was all transfered to VHS for editing and to add special effects on TNG. I don't think there is a quality version of the show out there.

[ort888]

Ok videophiles... No Country For Old Men is from both Paramount and Miramax (Disney)...

So where will it end up on HD?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Ok videophiles... No Country For Old Men is from both Paramount and Miramax (Disney)...

So where will it end up on HD?

Miramax has the US distribution rights, so it'll be on BD in the US. However it'll be on HD DVD outside the US, so importing will be easy.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by cjrivera 

Well, just jumped on board the Blu-Ray train.
There was a deal at Wal-Mart for an 80gb PS3 with 10 free Blu-ray discs in addition to the 5 free BR discs by mail in rebate.
15 free movies was what helped me pull the trigger.
I guess now I have to wait and find a good deal like this one on a HD-DVD player...

Staples has a refurb RCA HD DVD player for $50 today:
Staples.com�. that was easy�.

[Montezuma58]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Miramax has the US distribution rights, so it'll be on BD in the US. However it'll be on HD DVD outside the US, so importing will be easy.

I know for sure that Miramax has US theatrical distribution rights. I haven't seen anybody that has been able to say for sure if they also have hove video distribution rights. Since this movie was a joint venture between Dreamworks and Miramax it could go either way.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Staples has a refurb RCA HD DVD player for $50 today:
Staples.com?. that was easy?.

Umm, no.

That is in no way, shape, or form and "HD DVD" player. It's some kind of DVD recorder/DVD Player that Staples is labeling as "HD". Fact is, that thing can't play HD DVDs.

Here is the HD DVD player that RCA makes:

Amazon.com: RCA HDV5000 HD DVD Player: Electronics

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

The sad thing is it was all transfered to VHS for editing and to add special effects on TNG. I don't think there is a quality version of the show out there.

I know it was done on video, but was it really VHS? I don't know, but I would have guessed beta.

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

Umm, no.

That is in no way, shape, or form and "HD DVD" player. It's some kind of DVD recorder/DVD Player that Staples is labeling as "HD". Fact is, that thing can't play HD DVDs.

Here is the HD DVD player that RCA makes:

Amazon.com: RCA HDV5000 HD DVD Player: Electronics

Yeah, and I wouldn't buy that one either. It's slooooooowwwwww. Plus, it's discontinued anyway. About the only thing it has going for it is full 5.1 analogue outs.

[Eug]

I watched two HD DVDs (that I got free) yesterday.

The Fast and The Furious: Tokyo Drift
Stupid story, and bad acting, but excellent car sequences. 2.5/5
Awesome picture: 5/5

Ocean's Thirteen
Boring and disjointed story. 2/5
Picture sucked royally: 1/5

For Ocean's Thirteen, the ugly picture was the director's intent, cuz I'm told that it looked exactly the same in the theatre. But it looked absolutely horrible. It was very, very grainy, even in some day scenes, but it added nothing to the feel of the story (unlike Traffic). What's worse though were the wickedly oversaturated colours, so that Al Pacino's face outdoors was bright orange, like he was attacked by an army of suicidal carrots. This is not The Simpsons my friends. This is crime caper flick with real humans. I actually thought my projector was broken. Furthermore, it seemed as if a couple of shots were simply out of focus, or else were shot on 480p or something.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I know it was done on video, but was it really VHS? I don't know, but I would have guessed beta.

All I can find is that it was filmed on 35mm but imediatly transfered to "video" where they did all the post production work. Even if it was beta it wouldn't be that much better.

So it seems most of the footage is on actual 35mm but it would be a ton of work to remaster each episode as they would all need to be re-edited and every bit of post production would have to be done again.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

For Ocean's Thirteen, the ugly picture was the director's intent, cuz I'm told that it looked exactly the same in the theatre. But it looked absolutely horrible. It was very, very grainy, even in some day scenes, but it added nothing to the feel of the story (unlike Traffic). What's worse though were the wickedly oversaturated colours, so that Al Pacino's face outdoors was bright orange, like he was attacked by an army of suicidal carrots. This is not The Simpsons my friends. This is crime caper flick with real humans. I actually thought my projector was broken. Furthermore, it seemed as if a couple of shots were simply out of focus, or else were shot on 480p or something.

I watched it on DVD and I liked the story but ya the colours were messed up. I thought there was something wrong with my TV as everything was a bright orange.

Definitely not worth getting in HD.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yeah, and I wouldn't buy that one either. It's slooooooowwwwww. Plus, it's discontinued anyway. About the only thing it has going for it is full 5.1 analogue outs.

Exactly. I'll stick to my PS3 for Blu-ray and Toshiba XA2 for HD DVD. The Toshiba is a little slow starting up but it gets better with each firmware upgrade. PS3? Fastest startup of any hi-def player.

[CaseCom]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

All I can find is that it was filmed on 35mm but imediatly transfered to "video" where they did all the post production work. Even if it was beta it wouldn't be that much better.

So it seems most of the footage is on actual 35mm but it would be a ton of work to remaster each episode as they would all need to be re-edited and every bit of post production would have to be done again.

The "video" was probably one-inch Type C professional-grade videotape, an open-reel format that was commonly used in the 1980s. Still not HD, but better than VHS or Betamax, which were never used (and never intended) for professional production. Some of the later seasons may have used digital videotape, which began to be widely used in the '90s.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by CaseCom 

The "video" was probably one-inch Type C professional-grade videotape, an open-reel format that was commonly used in the 1980s. Still not HD, but better than VHS or Betamax, which were never used (and never intended) for professional production. Some of the later seasons may have used digital videotape, which began to be widely used in the '90s.

I know he said betamax, but I was not actually talking about betamax. I don't understand the technology, but I know that betacam began to be used in the '80s.

Star Trek: TNG premiered in '87.

[Dakarʒ]

I'll tell you, I have one of the fan collectives, and I haven't been impressed with the difference in the quality of image between Yesterday's Enterprise (Season 3 TNG, roughly '89) and The Year of Hell (Voyager, Early 2000s?).

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I know he said betamax, but I was not actually talking about betamax. I don't understand the technology, but I know that betacam began to be used in the '80s.

Star Trek: TNG premiered in '87.

I'm looking around the net, and while I don't have an official link yet, there are various posts around that say that ST: TNG was edited on Betacam SP, which came out in 1986, one year before ST: TNG premiered.



The numbers suggest Betacam SP is effectively around 400ish lines, but that's S-VHS quality, and most people say Betacam SP looks way better than S-VHS because of Betacam's far superior colour handling.

Bottom line though, it's not better than DVD quality.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I got this PM from someone here:

"VHS and Betamax were both consumer formats, not used in production. If TNG was indeed transferred directly from film to tape, then it would have been onto Betacam SP (a broadcast video format, not the same as the home beta!) at least, and much more likely onto one of the higher-end broadcast videotape formats such as "1 Inch Type C" or D1 or D2 digital -- it existed in 1986!

Either way, the quality will be around that of DVD, but definitely no higher unless they go back and re-do the post-processing."

[Eug]

So, the Venturer HD DVD player is now available at Wal-Mart, at least in Canada.
Some guy already bought one.



If it's $199 in Canada regular price, then I expect it to go for US$149 on sale.

[CaseCom]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I'm looking around the net, and while I don't have an official link yet, there are various posts around that say that ST: TNG was edited on Betacam SP, which came out in 1986, one year before ST: TNG premiered.

Interesting! I knew Betacam was used a lot for TV news production but didn't know they used it for the high-end studio stuff.

And yes, when you said "beta" I thought you meant Betamax. Sorry.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by CaseCom 

Interesting! I knew Betacam was used a lot for TV news production but didn't know they used it for the high-end studio stuff.

Well, like I said, I don't have an official link yet. Just some posts from around the net, which may or may not be completely accurate.

Like I said though, it's not a big deal for me, since I wouldn't be buying this in HD anyway, even if I could. Well, there are a few episodes I'd like to see in HD, like The Inner Light.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

Umm, no.

That is in no way, shape, or form and "HD DVD" player. It's some kind of DVD recorder/DVD Player that Staples is labeling as "HD". Fact is, that thing can't play HD DVDs.

Here is the HD DVD player that RCA makes:

Amazon.com: RCA HDV5000 HD DVD Player: Electronics

It was an HD DVD player before Staples changed it. It used to list the model as the HDV5000 and was listed on many "deals" sites as a cheap HD DVD player.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by CaseCom 

Interesting! I knew Betacam was used a lot for TV news production but didn't know they used it for the high-end studio stuff.

oh god ya. In fact sony just stopped making them a couple years ago.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by Eug 

What's worse though were the wickedly oversaturated colours, so that Al Pacino's face outdoors was bright orange, like he was attacked by an army of suicidal carrots.

Those carrots were his acting coaches.

Tokyo Drift is real good. I thought it was going to be a low brow teen crap but really liked how smooth it went down.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

It was an HD DVD player before Staples changed it. It used to list the model as the HDV5000 and was listed on many "deals" sites as a cheap HD DVD player.

Then Staples had it wrong and fixed it. There is no way they were ever selling the HDV5000 for less than $100.

[mduell]

What's holding up the dual format players? I have yet to see one, even at $1000.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by mduell 

What's holding up the dual format players? I have yet to see one, even at $1000.

LG BH100:

Buy the LG Super Blu HD Player and other Blu-ray Disc players at circuitcity.com

And there is a newer one coming out soon (BH200):

Buy the LG Blu-Ray/HD DVD Player and other Blu-ray Disc players at circuitcity.com

[mduell]

Thanks... did Samsung can theirs?

[Chongo]

Here's an article that is sure to light a fire:
Full article
HDTV Magazine Articles: Which is More Consumer Friendly: HD DVD or Blu-ray?

No, this is not the standard HD DVD vs. Blu-ray article that you may be used to reading. I am not declaring a "winner" because I think we are at a point now where neither camp is going away. Instead, this article explains which format I believe is the better choice for the consumer (you) this holiday season. Could that change a year from now? Sure, but I want to help you decide what to buy this year.

This article is not written in an attempt to convince anyone who has already made an investment one way or the other, for that is an almost impossible feat. It was written for those that are still "on the fence", as they say. It is for those who are either undecided, or are waiting to see which one will come out ahead (or which will be first to waive the white flag). It's time to hop down off of that fence.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Thanks... did Samsung can theirs?

could be. It was supposed to be out this month.

[Eug]

The Venturer SHD7000 is the same as the Toshiba HD-A3.
I suspect Alco (who is the parent of Venturer) is the manufacturer of the Toshiba players.

Toshiba HD-A3 with 1.3 firmware:

Machine Code: HDA3TKU
Submicom Version: HDA3TU1000TD
Group ID: 0a
Model ID: 97
Package Version: 1300
NAND Version: 1101
NOR Version: 1300
WinCE Version: 1000
FWH Version 0511
Drive Version: 1150
Scaler Version: ......

Venturer SHD7000 with 1.1 firmware:

Machine Code: HDA3KAU
Submicom Version: HDA3TU1000TD
Group ID: 0a
Model ID: 97
Package Version: 1100
NAND Version: 0927
NOR Version: 1100
WinCE Version: 1000
FWH Version: 0511
Drive Version: 1150
Scaler Version: -----

-----

Meanwhile, Fuh Yuan/Forworld Electronics is making both BD and HD DVD loaders:

Forworld Electronics reportedly to ship Blu-ray Disc players to Alba

Blu-ray drive shipments will be 4000/month starting in January '08.
Their recent HD DVD drive order is 100000 units, with shipments to begin in April '08.

HD DVD drives cost $57 each.

-----

Also, HD DVD says 750000 HD DVD players are now out there.

LOS ANGELES, Nov. 27 /PRNewswire/ -- Following landmark Black Friday promotions through major retail chains, the North American HD DVD Promotional Group today announced that sales of dedicated HD DVD players exceeded the 750,000 mark. The data is based on retailer reports and other point of sale data, and includes standalone set-top players as well as the Xbox 360 HD DVD player.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Electronista | Blu-ray's 3:1 European lead sign of larger victory?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Above Article

The wider adoption of the format becomes even clearer if PlayStation 3 games are factored in at 21 million units total for Europe, the Association boasts.

Why the fudge would they include games???

[exca1ibur]

The article is referring to it as being a disc format, so thats why they included games. They are just talking about the total amount of discs out there for whatever content it contains.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Eug 

... Following landmark Black Friday promotions through major retail chains, the North American HD DVD Promotional Group today announced that sales of dedicated HD DVD players exceeded the 750,000 mark. The data is based on retailer reports and other point of sale data, and includes standalone set-top players as well as the Xbox 360 HD DVD player.[/I]

If I bought a HD DVD drive for my 360 I don't think I'd consider it a standalone drive!

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Why the fudge would they include games???

Because they are on BluRay! (although I guess you can't really put them into a bluray player that's not a PS3 so maybe they're really not.)

[kman42]

Wow! I've never visited this thread before, because frankly the popular vote of the macnn community doesn't really seem relevant as to which format is winning.

But now that I've been to page 78 and see that the thread is actually still about the original topic, I am actually intrigued. Have there been any digressions worth reliving?

And who is winning?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by kman42 

Wow! I've never visited this thread before, because frankly the popular vote of the macnn community doesn't really seem relevant as to which format is winning.

But now that I've been to page 78 and see that the thread is actually still about the original topic, I am actually intrigued. Have there been any digressions worth reliving?

And who is winning?

HD DVD has more standalone players out there.
Blu-ray has more overall players out there, because of the PS3, but the attach rate for software for the PS3 is low since it's a game console.

However, overall Blu-ray still sells more software. It's about a 2:1 ratio. Nonetheless, with a 2:1 ratio it's effectively a stalemate, and even the CEO of Sony agrees it's a stalemate.

Blu-ray is banking on the 40GB PS3 to carry them through the holidays and eventually win the war.
HD DVD is banking on their low cost HD DVD players to carry them through the holidays and eventually win the war.

A couple of companies make hybrid players, but they are essentially irrelevant, because those players cost more than buying a separate HD DVD player and Blu-ray player.

In terms of movie releases, the amount out there is similar.
In terms of studio support, Blu-ray has a slight advantage.

In terms of storage space, Blu-ray has the advantage.
In terms of other features (PiP, network capability, etc), HD DVD has the advantage.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

If I bought a HD DVD drive for my 360 I don't think I'd consider it a standalone drive!

Why not? Its only purpose is to play HD DVD movies, nothing more.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

In terms of storage space, Blu-ray has the advantage.

Technically HD-DVD right now has 1 gb more capacity.