[fortepianissimo]

Ok I'll start another (would-be) epic thread - so Apple just seeded Panther 7B28. Any new stuff/fixes?

[ZackS]

I think there is a sticky about this or something.

[Adam Betts]

.

[MHerberg]

<ahem ahem> <cough cough> bit torrent <cough cough>

[zachs]

From ThinkSecret:

"Once again, this release reflects extensive engineering efforts since the last seed, with issues addressed in almost every component of the OS," the company told testers in a seed note. Apple listed a number of "components that had the most extensive changes": AFP, CUPS, AppKit, Web Services, QuickTime, Mail, System Events, Printing, Web Core, HI Toolbox, Carbon Core, Kernel, Address Book, Launch Services, OpenGL, Chinese Input Method, AppleScriptKit, Graphics Drivers, Script Editor, Finder, Character Palette, Core Audio, and Navigation Services.

[zachs]

Originally posted by MHerberg:
<ahem ahem> <cough cough> bit torrent <cough cough>

Too early.

[gorickey]

Wow, Apple is hauling ass on the seeds now...good to hear!

[OpenStep]

arg right after i managed to finally download the other one from adc 2 days ago now i gotta go thru the 5k/sec bs again

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by OpenStep:
arg right after i managed to finally download the other one from adc 2 days ago now i gotta go thru the 5k/sec bs again

Hehe

[jocker]

On a *COMPLETELY* unrelated note, anyone know why http://bittorrent.kicks-ass.net/ is down and are there any other mac bit torrent sites out there?

[dole]

Originally posted by jocker:
On a *COMPLETELY* unrelated note, anyone know why *** is down and are there any other mac bit torrent sites out there?

Same place, different address

*** URL GONE DUE TO PIRACY ISSUES ***

Mac Guru

[JLL]

Originally posted by zachs:
From ThinkSecret:

Perhaps the one leaking to ThinkSecret should read a few lines up in that seed note.

[Xeo]

Originally posted by OpenStep:
arg right after i managed to finally download the other one from adc 2 days ago now i gotta go thru the 5k/sec bs again

Well at least you have something to play with while waiting for the other one.

[Superchicken]

what could they be fixing with AFP?

[Peter]

Originally posted by JLL:
Perhaps the one leaking to ThinkSecret should read a few lines up in that seed note.

[naphtali]

[edit: whoops... seednote itself's under NDA].

Here's my personal plea:

Dear ADC members, while I've previously claimed to see disclosure as a service to the Mac community and as my personal right, please refrain from doing so anymore, as Apple is contemplating ceasing or restricting seeding, and we thus should not be irresponsible and selfish and inconvenience others. On my part, I will cease to participate in such threads. I hope you do the same, so that the integrity of the seeding programme stays in tack. I honestly don't understand Apple's rationale behind the NDA, but I fully respect that.

[stew]

Originally posted by naphtali:
I honestly don't understand Apple's rationale behind the NDA, but I fully respect that.

There's a simple reason for that: In case you seed a build that is seriously broken (e.g. reformats your harddrive, sets too high resolutions for your screen or just won't lauch Photoshop any more) people would be screaming and bitching all over the place how shitty Panther is. Once you have such a bad reputation, it's really hard to get rid of it, even if all the following builds don't have that bug any more.

[Moose]

Originally posted by JLL:
Perhaps the one leaking to ThinkSecret should read a few lines up in that seed note.

Well said.

[hmurchison2001]

You really can't blame Apple fans for wanting the seeds or inhabiting Rumor sites. It's the byproduct of Steve Job's obsession with secrecy.

I mean it sounds kind of silly for Apple to want to NDA everything and then get mad when their fans rise to the challenge to get the info. That's what makes Keynotes exciting and waiting for that next big thing. Apple can complain all they want but the day fans stop caring about what's next is the day Apple is in serious trouble.

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by hmurchison2001:
You really can't blame Apple fans for wanting the seeds or inhabiting Rumor sites. It's the byproduct of Steve Job's obsession with secrecy.

Right, you can't. You can blame the people who leak. And the people who support them.

[sandsl]

Stick to the topic. This is not a thread about piracy and NDAs, its about new features in Panther Build 7B28.

I would think everyone on this board has an more than enough piracy related dicussion regarding leaking of Panther.

Start a new thread if thats what you want to discuss (then me, and others can avoid it)...I didn't click this thread to dicuss piracy, but rather to learn of new features/info about 7B28...

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Bla bla bla..

So what is new already?

[sandsl]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Bla bla bla..

So what is new already?

[ambush]

Well I personally had installed 7B21 and, 2 days ago, I deleted it and came back to Jag.

FYI, I don't feel like I miss any of those "nifty" features in Panther (expos�, the new eye candy, the new appearance, etc, etc) and I really haven't noticed a slowdown.

But, Apps crash a lot less and it's more stable, overall.

Never download pre release Mac OS again.

[zachs]

Labels have been fixed (they were broken in 7B21) and iChat will not disconnect when switching users.

[Busemann]

Originally posted by zachs:
Labels have been fixed (they were broken in 7B21) and iChat will not disconnect when switching users.

and...

[absmiths]

Originally posted by zachs:
Labels have been fixed (they were broken in 7B21) and iChat will not disconnect when switching users.

But does it still Kernel Panic when switching users? The WWDC release did that like 30% of the time.

[jessejlt]

Originally posted by zachs:
Labels have been fixed (they were broken in 7B21) and iChat will not disconnect when switching users.

What happens if the not-current-user receives a message while not in their session than?
jesse ;-)

[gorickey]

1.) Will the trash icon update now when stuff is actually emptied?

2.) Will iChat not ask you to enter your AIM/.Mac name each time you close and re-launch the program (affected "Clean Installs" only of 7B21)

[Busemann]

Originally posted by gorickey:
1.) Will the trash icon update now when stuff is actually emptied?

2.) Will iChat not ask you to enter your AIM/.Mac name each time you close and re-launch the program (affected "Clean Installs" only of 7B21)

1) Open the trash and click the objects in it 'till they disappear

2) Use an old .plist

[gorickey]

Originally posted by Busemann:
1) Open the trash and click the objects in it 'till they disappear

2) Use an old .plist

Yeah, I know the "workarounds"...but these are bugs that are needed to be resolved, and was wondering if this build corrected those or not.

Thanks.

[fg]

Originally posted by gorickey:
Yeah, I know the "workarounds"...but these are bugs that are needed to be resolved, and was wondering if this build corrected those or not.

Thanks.

Anyone that really think they would not fix a bug like that until GM? So I think it is quite trivial if it is not fixed in 7B28.

What I am interesting is, are they any new features or is 7B28 only bugfixes from 7B21?

Thanks

[suthercd]

Any information given out about a NDA build does not help the person disseminating it, it does not move forward the development process at Apple that we all benefit from, and it does a disservice to those who get the info. Components of one part of any software project during development may purposely unhook some functions, may make changes to address a certain problematic area knowing that those changes will cause some problems but will be removed at a later date, and may introduce some portions that are put there purely for debugging purposes.

Everyone is curious and excited after a new release is announced. Going off half cocked and leaking half-truths to appear "competent" creates the opposite impression.

The posts warning of bitter consequences from irresponsible acts should be taken as more than a heads up. Crap in your own nest and you will live with the mess you made.

Craig

[Angus_D]

Not to mention, if Apple cuts of the supply of builds to legitimate developers, then legitimate developers have no way of verifying if their software works against the latest build. This harms them, this harms Apple, and this harms you.

Why are so many people, largely Westerners, so unbelievably shortsighted that they can't see they're screwing themselves most of the time? It's sad, because our ability to plan for consequences of our actions is one of the defining features of the human race which has enabled us to become the dominant species.

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by ambush:
But, Apps crash a lot less and it's more stable, overall.

No sh**, Sherlock. I mean, come on, how much of a retard are you?

[sandsl]

Some people have some strong views about this stuff. However, there really is no excuse for being rude.

Reminding those with strong views that it really isn't your place to enforce your opinion on others.

Issues with the dicussion topics eg. builds of panther under NDA could be directed at the forum owners and administrations for allowing such discussion on a public board and NOT individuals who you may disagree with.

Respect Other Opinion. Remain Polite. Try and Remain Civil.

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by sandsl:
Reminding those with strong views that it really isn't your place to enforce your opinion on others.

No, but if leaking, and the encouragement of leaking, is going to provoke Apple to cut back on their seeding programme, then you're enforcing your views on those who disagree with you and who are happily chugging along testing their software against the latest build.

I also think it's perfectly relevant to this thread. See also the "all ethics aside" thread about monitoring users. You can't have double standards, Luke.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Angus_D:
No sh**, Sherlock. I mean, come on, how much of a retard are you?

No. Sherlock hasn't been improved. It definatly isn't sh**. Unless you live outside the UK, that is.

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by PeterClark2002:
No. Sherlock hasn't been improved. It definatly isn't sh**. Unless you live outside the UK, that is.

It IS ****

[phillryu]

It's a saying, meaning, "No duh, 'Sherlock'". It's called sarcasm.

[ambush]

Originally posted by phillryu:
It's a saying, meaning, "No duh, 'Sherlock'". It's called sarcasm.

No ****, Sherlock?

[fortepianissimo]

Originally posted by fortepianissimo:
Ok I'll start another (would-be) epic thread - so Apple just seeded Panther 7B28. Any new stuff/fixes?

Looks like this thread did turn out to be another epic thread, in its own way.

[sandsl]

No, but if leaking, and the encouragement of leaking, is going to provoke Apple to cut back on their seeding programme, then you're enforcing your views on those who disagree with you and who are happily chugging along testing their software against the latest build.

Firstly, I haven't leaked any software or information. Secondly, if my interest in future Apple software encourages some people to steal then thats their choice - I have not forced anyone to leak. Unfortunately, my interest in Panther is unlikely to waiver and thus, according to you, my "encouragement of leaking" will continue, with or without your support.

I also think it's perfectly relevant to this thread.

Finlay, it maybe relevant but dicussions about piracy are always heated and I'd rather avoid them when possible - people become rude and uncivilised as seen in this thread.

There needs to be an end to this dicussion, even if people agree to disagree. As you said previously leaks are not going to stop...

To sum up: I activately encourage the leaking of information regarding future Apple products. I take this stance side by side with the rumor sites, readers of such sites, together with Magazines and news sites which regulary print and display unconfirmed rumors and information about future products.


The quest for info continues....
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...threadid=34383

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by sandsl:
Firstly, I haven't leaked any software or information.

I never accused you of that.

Secondly, if my interest in future Apple software encourages some people to steal then thats their choice - I have not forced anyone to leak.

I am actively discouraging that leaking by presenting the arguments against it. Or is that not allowed, because you're running those double standards again?

[Musti]

Originally posted by suthercd:
Any information given out about a NDA build does not help the person disseminating it, it does not move forward the development process at Apple that we all benefit from, and it does a disservice to those who get the info. Components of one part of any software project during development may purposely unhook some functions, may make changes to address a certain problematic area knowing that those changes will cause some problems but will be removed at a later date, and may introduce some portions that are put there purely for debugging purposes.

Everyone is curious and excited after a new release is announced. Going off half cocked and leaking half-truths to appear "competent" creates the opposite impression.

The posts warning of bitter consequences from irresponsible acts should be taken as more than a heads up. Crap in your own nest and you will live with the mess you made.

Craig

Excellent post, that's why I didn't snip it. In case someone missed it, read it above.

And it is reassuring to know that some (perhaps all) of the addressees of the message have posted on the thread here. I especially loved the "half cocked" part. I'd have written "full cocked".

That brought to you by my 2 Canadian cents.

[ambush]

It goes like that:

Panther's a big secret, and Apple knows it. Apple wants it to be a big secret. It's Apple's marketing strategy. Just look at all those rumors sites out there.

Humans want to know secrets. It's the human nature. Knowing secrets makes humans feel better. Just look at all those gossip magazine out there. The Enquirer is the perfect example.

You can't blame mac zealots for wanting to know the panther secret, can you?

So either Apple is going to tolerate it and perpetually send cease and desist letters or just stop the programme.

Apple is basically baiting users to commit crimes.

[sandsl]

Originally posted by Angus_D:
I am actively discouraging that leaking by presenting the arguments against it. Or is that not allowed, because you're running those double standards again?

Thats your right and thats your opinion, I don't have any problem with that.

What I do have a problem with is:
- Rude & Uncivilised debate: "i suggest i block you. goodbye.", "because you're being an idiot", "failing to penetrate your thick skull today?", "you bitch".

I welcome your opinion and I'm quite happy to listen to it. However, you where completely out of order in how you debated your view - and thats what I find offensive.

There is no excuse for rudeness, being polite costs nothing.

[Angus_D]

I would take that bait, but this thread has stooped low enough already.

[Grrr]

Oh for f*cks sake!
Shut up and get on with the 7B28 topic please!

[Socially Awkward Solo]

What a worthless thread.