[dark3lf]

Any impressions? All I've been able to confirm is that the kernel is xnu-167 and that the DVD Player is present but not functioning.

5G15 is great.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

I heard sleep doesn't work in this build.

I heard that there is a new control panel called: Universal Access.

What is that? Is that similar to Timbuktu or what...?

[Person Man]

Originally posted by <MadMouse>:
<STRONG>I heard that there is a new control panel called: Universal Access.

What is that? Is that similar to Timbuktu or what...?</STRONG>

That has nothing to do with Timbuktu. Remember CloseView/Easy Access? My guess is that is what Universal Access is.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by Person Man:
<STRONG>

That has nothing to do with Timbuktu. Remember CloseView/Easy Access? My guess is that is what Universal Access is.</STRONG>

That is what I thought also, nothing exciting.

[dark3lf]

Apparently, this morning Apple posted disk images of 5G15 and the new dev tools, but later removed it:

Dear Developer,
Due to the high demand for Mac OS X v10.1 pre-release seed, many of you may be experiencing difficulty downloading this product from the ADC Member Site. We have removed this seed from the Download Software area of the site while we ramp up our server capacity.

[Noopie]

Here are some questions I have about 5G15. I'd appreciate it if anyone who has had experience with 5G15 can answer them:
�How is the finder stability compared 5F24/5F26?
�What is the version of iTunes that is included?
�Anyone have any screen shots?
�Is there IR, spring load folders, new trash warning?
�Is startup time improved compared to 5F24/5F26?
�Any other observations people might find intersting?

Thanks

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Noopie:
[QB]Here are some questions I have about 5G15. I'd appreciate it if anyone who has had experience with 5G15 can answer them:
�How is the finder stability compared 5F24/5F26?

Doesn't matter. Unreleased develoment builds don't have to be stable. Stability (or lack thereof) is of little importance in development builds. 5G15 could be more unstable than 5F24/26, and it wouldn't mean anything.

�What is the version of iTunes that is included?

Still 1.1.2. No magical iTunes updates.

�Anyone have any screen shots?

I'm sure someone will post some screenshots that look exactly like 5F24/26.

�Is there IR, spring load folders, new trash warning?

No. 10.1 is pretty much feature-complete.

�Is startup time improved compared to 5F24/5F26?

Pretty much the same.

Those that have used the new build, go support it at the new AI forums. OS X is getting ripped by XP supporters in a pretty heated and technical discussion in this thread (it starts about 10 posts down):

http://www.xsorbit.com/users/flamingo/index.cgi?board=Mac_OS_X&action=display&num=9 95736733

Ugh. In reference to that forum listed above... don't bother reading it. I've never seen a flamewar where both sides of the argument were so utterly ignorant of their arguments. The XP fools don't seem to know (or care) much about the particulars of OS X (other than that it's slow), and the "defenders" of OS X also have many of their facts wrong and exhibit very bad form in making broad, false generalizations about Microsoft and Windows.

Me, I use both Win2K Server and OS X. I think they're both pretty good. OS X is easier and "cooler", but I must admit it runs like a dog on my iMac 233 with 384MB. OTOH, Win2K performs quite satisfactorily on my Pentium MMX 200 with 128MB.

I wish the religious zealotry would go on hold for a couple months until 10.1 is out.

[DaveGee]

Originally posted by &lt;piracy&gt;:
No. 10.1 is pretty much feature-complete.

Feature complete? Well ummm do me a favor and run "Disk Utility" and tell me what you see... Now I know that wasn't in any other 'F' builds...

D

[SJ]

Originally posted by DaveGee:
<STRONG>

Feature complete? Well ummm do me a favor and run "Disk Utility" and tell me what you see... Now I know that wasn't in any other 'F' builds...

D</STRONG>

Shhhhh!!

Don't tell anyone yet... it might not be in the final builds! Then everyone will just be pissed!

[[email protected]]

it's like a swath of black velvet between the cheek and gums.

or like a wasp in a lightbulb.

i'm not sure which.

[Sine]

I see that "groverat" is posting in there He used to come over to Macmonkey.com saying he was going to eat us for dinner.
Needless to say he no longer posts there.. he left running with his tail between his legs.

[adamtki]

I played with 5G15 on a 500 Mhz G3 powerbook today for about 15 minutes. Here's what I observed:

- applications launch as fast as they claimed considering this is only a 500mhz G3 powerbook
- sleep failed on me 2 out of 2 times. You can't wake it up. It forces you to reboot
- iTunes is sitll 1.1.2
- the login screen is cooler with predefined set of user ids and icons
- the sound and brightness UI feedback is pretty nice, but it's buggy
- the battery meter level in the menu bar is good but I experienced some redraw problems
- i love the little triangles in column view to the right of folder items. I think that's how the original NeXT file browser was (i think they used dots...? can't remember)
- menu bar pull down was sped up considerably
- app switching is much improved in speed
- the finder's column size in column view no longer automatically resized when you resize the window (this could be a preference item)
- the DVD player was there (version 3.0) but I didn't have a DVD to test with
- a newer version of MacIE was there (don't remember if the version number changed or not)

All in all, I'm really impressed and am looking forward to 10.1. It still doesn't feel like a feature rich OS, but it sure is fast enough to be productive with it. maybe 10.2 will be the kitchen sink release with continued performance improvements.

My company gets the latest seed builds. I saw 5G19 there as well. I'm afraid to install it on my real OS X machine because the final release may not upgrade a beta OS.

[Hornet]

OK... sounds cool... but really what we wanna know is how it compares to 5f24. everyone and their dog seems to be running that thesedays (avid fans atleast), so some comparison against that, from users who have used both?

And dont tell me they have reverted to the buttugly 5f7 login panel.... fullscreen............

[fg]

I have seen some shots of 5G24 and in that build they have changed the apple icon. It is more of an aqua color now. Much like the explorer icon. More light blue and not that flat deep blue that it has now.

I have two screenshots of it. I could email it to somebody that can post the images here on the forum.

[Mediaman_12]

Ok so how is '5G24'?
Does it spend all day crashing like the older build did?
Is it worth me finding it 'somewhere'
I did install the'5F' build, but it was a pain, my uptime went from weeks (with 10.0.4) to about 20mins, is '5G24' better than this.

Originally posted by Hornet:
<STRONG>OK... sounds cool... but really what we wanna know is how it compares to 5f24. everyone and their dog seems to be running that thesedays (avid fans atleast), so some comparison against that, from users who have used both?

And dont tell me they have reverted to the buttugly 5f7 login panel.... fullscreen............</STRONG>

IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW IT COMPARES TO 5F24. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S A MILLION TIMES FASTER OR A MILLION TIMES SLOWER, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING. IT'S A PRERELEASE DEVELOPMENT BUILD.

God, what does it take to get that through your heads?

And, yes, 10.1 is pretty much feature complete. And what about Disk Utility? That interface has been there in all LEGITIMATE 10.1 builds I've seen...

Originally posted by Mediaman_12:
<STRONG>Ok so how is '5G24'?
Does it spend all day crashing like the older build did?
Is it worth me finding it 'somewhere'
I did install the'5F' build, but it was a pain, my uptime went from weeks (with 10.0.4) to about 20mins, is '5G24' better than this.</STRONG>

I can't believe this crap. Is it any wonder your uptime went from weeks (with a released, official version) to minutes (with unreleased, pirated builds intended only for development, and maybe *not even development*)?

How long will it take you people to understand that OS development isn't
like you think it is. Things aren't going to keep getting better and better
and better and faster and faster and faster and more great and magical
and feature-packed!@

No, 5F24, or 5G15, or whatever, isn't that much "better" than whatever
illegally obtained build you got before. Why would you even want to run unreleased development builds on a day to day basis anyway??

[mattyd]

Originally posted by &lt;piracy&gt;:
<STRONG>

I can't believe this crap. Is it any wonder your uptime went from weeks (with a released, official version) to minutes (with unreleased, pirated builds intended only for development, and maybe *not even development*)?

How long will it take you people to understand that OS development isn't
like you think it is. Things aren't going to keep getting better and better
and better and faster and faster and faster and more great and magical
and feature-packed!@

No, 5F24, or 5G15, or whatever, isn't that much "better" than whatever
illegally obtained build you got before. Why would you even want to run unreleased development builds on a day to day basis anyway??</STRONG>

dude, why so much angst? you gotta calm down or you're going to burst something.

relax and let people have their fun.

[Sam Agnew]

Actually, this is the place for discussion of prerelease builds. Not for info on how and where to illegally pirate builds but discussion, yes. On the one hand people are naturally curious about how this first big update is progressing and whether it's likely it will be delayed, whether it's likely to be missing a feature or have new features. How work is progressing on this major update is of concern to many of the readers here. On the other hand we are after all talking about a free update. Of course Apple doesn't want people running beta OS versions because they don't want their image tainted by software that isn't complete and is unstable. If discussion of this nature offends you why not try one of the other threads?

[DannyVTim]

If there are not changes that are noticeable and are all under the hood, could someone say what is new under the hood?

I have to say that Apple's done a great job under the hood, but should put a little more into the GUI to appease people. It would make for good press and impress the morons.

Originally posted by &lt;piracy&gt;:
<STRONG>

I can't believe this crap. Is it any wonder your uptime went from weeks (with a released, official version) to minutes (with unreleased, pirated builds intended only for development, and maybe *not even development*)?

How long will it take you people to understand that OS development isn't
like you think it is. Things aren't going to keep getting better and better
and better and faster and faster and faster and more great and magical
and feature-packed!@

No, 5F24, or 5G15, or whatever, isn't that much "better" than whatever
illegally obtained build you got before. Why would you even want to run unreleased development builds on a day to day basis anyway??</STRONG>

Piracy,

Go away. Don't post here. We don't like you. In fact, I will bet good american cabbage, most people don't like you.

Lecturing us about piracy is lame-o. We are pirates. We are leechers. We ARE WHAT YOU AREN'T. Go away. Everything you have said is worthless. Everything you will say here will also be worthless drivel that is just scrollover material.

I'll bet you look like this!
http://bbspot.com/toys/video/ballmer/ballmer_fun.mpg

-Cheers

[Sam Agnew]

Originally posted by &lt;piracy is a wanker&gt;:
<STRONG>


Piracy,

Go away. Don't post here. We don't like you. In fact, I will bet good american cabbage, most people don't like you.

Lecturing us about piracy is lame-o. We are pirates. We are leechers. We ARE WHAT YOU AREN'T. Go away. Everything you have said is worthless. Everything you will say here will also be worthless drivel that is just scrollover material.

I'll bet you look like this!
http://bbspot.com/toys/video/ballmer/ballmer_fun.mpg

-Cheers


</STRONG>

And so the unregistereds flame another thread to death.

[bmedina]

And so the unregistereds flame another thread to death.

Yeah, isn't there something (anything?) that we can do to prevent this from happening all the time?

Moderators?

[piracy]

Originally posted by bmedina:
<STRONG>
Yeah, isn't there something (anything?) that we can do to prevent this from happening all the time?

Moderators?</STRONG>

I am registered. Just too lazy to log in.

[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: piracy ]

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Screenshots anyone?

[piracy]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
<STRONG>Screenshots anyone?</STRONG>

Yes, look at the screenshots of any previous versions of 10.1, and
you'll have 5G15.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by piracy:
<STRONG>
Yes, look at the screenshots of any previous versions of 10.1, and
you'll have 5G15.</STRONG>

Oh, ha ha... that is so funny. Anywho, I wanted to see the new Apple logo and DVD Player that is only in 5G15, luckily someone else is a little more helpful and posted a screenshot instead of a smart ass remark.
http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/ulti...c&f=3&t=007074

[piracy]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
<STRONG>

Oh, ha ha... that is so funny. Anywho, I wanted to see the new Apple logo and DVD Player that is only in 5G15, luckily someone else is a little more helpful and posted a screenshot instead of a smart ass remark.
http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/ulti...c&f=3&t=007074</STRONG>

The DVD player doesn't even launch in 5G15; but sure enough, it has an icon. (Wow!) And the Apple logo is no different in 5G15 than it is in 10.0.4. The 5G24 shot in the other thread appears to have a different Apple menu logo, and a DVD player that can launch and sit there with a black window. Ooohh!

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by piracy:
<STRONG>

The DVD player doesn't even launch in 5G15; but sure enough, it has an icon. (Wow!) And the Apple logo is no different in 5G15 than it is in 10.0.4. The 5G24 shot in the other thread appears to have a different Apple menu logo, and a DVD player that can launch and sit there with a black window. Ooohh!</STRONG>

Then why are you reading this topic?

[DaveGee]

Originally posted by &lt;piracy&gt;:
<STRONG>And, yes, 10.1 is pretty much feature complete. And what about Disk Utility? That interface has been there in all LEGITIMATE 10.1 builds I've seen...</STRONG>

Okay Piracy.....

This tells me you have no idea what you are talking about... The "Disk Utility" in f24/etc is MISSING something that g15 has. What could be the reason you don't know that.... Well could it be that you have no real idea what's going on?

I have f24 and g15 and g15 has one more panel... I'm not going to go into any more detail than that but it finally proves to me you are a fake and people should have little respect for what you say.

D

If you check out MacOSRumors.com you will see that they just gave out the little "Disk Utility" secret everyone is hinting at.

[[email protected]]

guess it's B.

a wasp in a lightbulb.

[[email protected]]

yo disgruntled, put your head on straight and lighten up on pirate just a wee bit.

rumors reports the apple icon change and dvd launchability came wiht 5g24, not 5g15...

i like the icon i have now. but i'll take the dvd player.

Originally posted by DaveGee:
<STRONG>

Okay Piracy.....

This tells me you have no idea what you are talking about... The "Disk Utility" in f24/etc is MISSING something that g15 has. What could be the reason you don't know that.... Well could it be that you have no real idea what's going on?

I have f24 and g15 and g15 has one more panel... I'm not going to go into any more detail than that but it finally proves to me you are a fake and people should have little respect for what you say.

D</STRONG>

Yes DaveGee, I see the RAID tab. And yes, I know what I'm talking about. So now you know I'm not a "fake", whatever that means.

And by the way, DaveGee, people already know to have plenty of respect for what I say from the whole 4K78 deal, in which I was right on in every way (anyone who was here then can vouch for my accuracy, even if I am somewhat of a a**hole). No one *wanted* to believe me, and no one *liked* what I said, but they'd better have respect for it since it was all correct.

[SJ]

Originally posted by &lt;piracy&gt;:
<STRONG>

Yes DaveGee, I see the RAID tab. And yes, I know what I'm talking about. So now you know I'm not a "fake", whatever that means.</STRONG>

I think he thinks that because it wasn't in the 5F24 (Macworld Preview) build that everyone has. Which means your right when you say it was in every Legitimate development build.

5F24 wasn't a legitmate developer build.

[comgil]

[ 08-16-2001: Message edited by: comgil ]

[Gee4orce]

Ah - does anybody else remember the days when the Mac community was just that - a community ? Not a but of bitching in-fighters ??

En-e-waaaay....

Does anyone know a reason why RAID isn't supported over Firewire ? I assume there's no technical reason for this...

[iloveOSX]

those were the days... -- sung in a carol o'conner sort of way

[DannyVTim]

I even remember when people didn't complain about things not working but took at as a badge of honor that they were on the verge of getting the state of the art in computing and on the bleeding edge. Now they complain about not being able to burn a CD over and over again and debate the value of a buttons pulsing or some other non topic and see it as a weakness. So not only was there a community, the people were quite knowledgeable and had a better understanding. It was mature community.

[Amorph]

Does anyone know a reason why RAID isn't supported over Firewire ?

It could be as simple as the fact that they don't have the code polished up enough to include in a developer release?

I'm guessing that it would be somewhat harder to code a FW RAID driver simply because it would have to account for any one of the drives - or the whole array - getting mounted and unmounted at random. IDE and SCSI don't support hot-swapping (well, OK, hot-swappable SCSI does exist, for a price), so they're a bit simpler to deal with.

I assume there's no technical reason for this...

There shouldn't be. VST already offers a FireWire-based RAID. If you like twisting words, MOSR claims that RAID over IDE and SCSI is supported. Well, all FireWire drives are actually IDE devices, and FireWire is a serialized SCSI, sooo...

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by [email protected]:
<STRONG>yo disgruntled, put your head on straight and lighten up on pirate just a wee bit.

rumors reports the apple icon change and dvd launchability came wiht 5g24, not 5g15...

i like the icon i have now. but i'll take the dvd player.</STRONG>

What is your problem? He is the one riding me with his sarcasm.
Perhaps you two are the same person.[/LIST]

[piracy]

Originally posted by DannyVTim:
<STRONG>I even remember when people didn't complain about things not working but took at as a badge of honor that they were on the verge of getting the state of the art in computing and on the bleeding edge. Now they complain about not being able to burn a CD over and over again and debate the value of a buttons pulsing or some other non topic and see it as a weakness. So not only was there a community, the people were quite knowledgeable and had a better understanding. It was mature community.</STRONG>

Yes Danny, I remember that too...I also remember when USENET didn't suck, the days before the web or even Gopher (and THAT'S not even that long ago)...

Now it's all people complaining that unreleased, pirated, development builds are unstable. No sh*t sherlock!

[happypork]

Yeah, piracy was right in March leading up to 10.0 (4k78), and few people believed him ... just thought I'd add fuel to the fire.

Meow.

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by SJ:
<STRONG>5F24 wasn't a legitmate developer build. </STRONG>

Yes, it was. It just wasn't seeded as widely as 5G15 is being seeded. /me beats SJ with the cluehammer

[BuonRotto]

Let me just add that it's not just what you say, but how you say it. When you come off as obnoxious or a bit tactless, people will take exception to your words whether you are correct or privileged with info or not. This goes not only for posts in this thread but many if not most of the threads around here. This lack of appropriate behavior seems to affect these threads negatively. One thread here about the "Aqua-bashers" also addresses this problem albeit from a different angle -- after all, criticism of aqua isn't a problem, but un-focused cynicism and rude or dogmatic commentary gets tired really fast and doesn't contribute to this community in any way. There doesn't seem to be any real conflict here except for the inappropriate tone some have taken, which in turn upsets other users, ad nauseum.