Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

GSixZero · Sep 4, 2008, 05:14 PM

I'd like to build a stereo for the upstairs of my house. It's an open floor plan with mostly hard surfaces, (walls, ceiling, and floors). I've got room for some larger bookshelf speakers. I'm not too terribly worried about sound quality, as long as it doesn't sound like crap. Ideally it would be able to fill the room, which is about 20' square with music without it sounding really loud. I'd like to keep it fairly inexpensive, (say under a couple hundred) but I'm willing to piece it together with second hand stuff. Any advice on how to build a decent good will system or the like?

Thanks.

John

cjrivera · Sep 4, 2008, 05:37 PM

Bose (kidding.... just, kidding!)

zombie punk · Sep 4, 2008, 05:40 PM

bose sucks

brassplayersrock² · Sep 4, 2008, 05:51 PM

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/sp...s/224&cl=us,en

A bit more then you asked for as far as price. These should do the trick in your room though. What's nice about these is that they use actual wire, and not attached like the first version of these. You can be as crafty with what wire you use (I don't recommend the included wire) as you'd like, and with hiding the wire. Also, the source input options are very nice.

Laminar · Sep 4, 2008, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by zombie punk

bose sucks

Congrats.

Mastrap · Sep 4, 2008, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by zombie punk

bose sucks

Indeed

cjrivera · Sep 4, 2008, 06:04 PM

Are you looking for something for music (which you'd be able to get a system with 2 speakers and maybe a sub) or something for movies (and be looking for a 5.1 type system)

... and yeah, I was kidding about Bose.

GSixZero · Sep 4, 2008, 06:16 PM

This will be just for music and the radio.

zombie punk · Sep 4, 2008, 07:43 PM

Bose would be fine for talk radio - for music, better other stereo equipment.

tooki · Sep 4, 2008, 10:04 PM

Regardless of the stereo equipment you buy, be sure to install acoustic treatments to cut down on some of the echo. Things like soft cushiony things, curtains, bookshelves full of books and knick-knacks, etc. (The random shapes of all those items and their surfaces help break up reflections.)

Sep 4, 2008, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by zombie punk

bose sucks

Well, he did say he wasn't terribly worried about sound quality.

zombie punk · Sep 4, 2008, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by hayesk

Well, he did say he wasn't terribly worried about sound quality.

Yeah, but he also said he'd like to keep it fairly inexpensive...

zro · Sep 4, 2008, 11:53 PM

Nothing says cool like: http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/ele/827211900.html

Try not to spill your martini on it, though.

Shaddim · 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by zombie punk

bose sucks

Sure does.

I've not looked at this end of the spectrum for a while (<$1000), but Infinity and Klipsch make some decent bookshelves, maybe Polk too.

Or, a shelf system, even though they're often poorly made. This one doesn't look too bad though.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882120098

GSixZero · Sep 5, 2008, 02:29 AM

Let me refine my question a bit... if I wanted to shop craigslist or goodwill for a used set of speakers and a used amp, can anyone give me any tips on putting together an ok system? How do I match speakers and amps? Is there a way to avoid buying garbage?

Thanks.

olePigeon · Sep 5, 2008, 11:54 AM

I'm happy with my Kenwood.

vmarks · Sep 5, 2008, 12:59 PM

gsix, the speakers are really the most important part of the equation. Since the solid-state amplifiers sound reasonably good for the most part across the board, you can buy about any amplifier/receiver at good will. Provided you connect to good speakers, you'll be fine.

It used to be that you had to have larger speakers in order to make good sound - that's really not the case any longer. Six inch to 10 inch woofers will do just fine. The issues to look at are quality of the enclosure the speakers are in - thin mdf (glued up sawdust) or thicker material? Has it got a bass reflex or is it a sealed enclosure? Sealed is almost better if the mfr hasn't done the proper math to get the reflex tube the right volume- some speakers simply have a hole with no tube, and it doesn't match the volume of air that the speaker pushes at all.

Shaddim · Sep 5, 2008, 04:23 PM

What vmarks said.

I'm a bit of a harcore audiophile, an unashamed Krell/Wilson man. However, you can put together a decent low-end system for very little green. Just grab a receiver and CD player from your favorite vendor of used equipment (a 20-40 watt 2ch receiver is fine), both will run you about $40-50, but the speakers are important. If you want to fill a room of that size with fairly loud music, I'd probably go with something with a high sensitivity (91+dB). Check out the Klipsch B-2 and Athena AS-B2.2 bookshelves, both should be within your budget.

Nexus5 · Sep 6, 2008, 02:34 AM

Use Linn components:

1. Linn Classik Music

2. Majik 140 speaker

They look great AND sound great!

nexus5.

Shaddim · Sep 6, 2008, 07:53 AM

I'm pretty sure he was limited to a few hundred dollars.

OreoCookie · Sep 6, 2008, 08:07 AM

And the speakers are too big for that purpose. I'm partial to Wharfedale speakers, I've got 70th Anniversary speakers and I'm amazed: the mids are just amazing. As with any bookshelf speakers, don't expect too much bass, but from your description, that's not necessary.

I agree that speakers are the most important part of the equation, but you will also hear differences when you buy a cheap amp. I'd get a used amp for the same price (e. g. by NAD or Onkyo). Avoid Sony.

alligator · Sep 6, 2008, 09:47 AM

Don't forget the quality of your music source. Are you using a computer, CDs, or an iPod? I'm now partial to Pandora for the variety.

tooki · 12:47 PM

Well, be prepared for the post-Pandora days, since they're likely going out of business soon. (Stupid RIAA shooting itself in the foot.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...081503367.html
http://consumerist.com/5039911/say-goodbye-to-pandora
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2328508,00.asp
http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/08/...xchange-h.html
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-100....html?hhTest=1

kupan787 · Sep 7, 2008, 01:20 AM

Not to thread hijack, but i'm looking to install some speakers outdoors. Its a small space, maybe about 150 SQF where the speakers would be covering. It is to be for an above ground spa.

I currently have a NAD 320BEE integrated amp powering my indoor speakers (set of McIntosh somethings). My amp is currently underpowered to what my speakers can handle (or so I have been told). So what I am wondering is:

a) should I purchase a second amp to run a pair of outdoor speakers; or
b) should I upgrade my NAD 320 to something more powerful that could run both my indoor and outdoor speakers? I would never be running both at the same time, always just one set or the other set.

I also need to buy some speakers, any recommendation for solid outdoors? I'm not looking to spend too much here, just something of decent quality to cover my space.

Thanks.

OreoCookie · Sep 7, 2008, 06:05 AM

I have the same amp

Regarding the amp being `underpowered', that depends on several things: what kind of speakers you have and what power output (at what resistance!) they are rated for. The volume you want to listen to (there is no use getting a 400 W amp when you actually use only a fraction). And, most importantly perhaps, it's the size of the `room'.

150 sqf turns out to be approximately 14 m^2 which is very small. Small speakers will suffice easily and your NAD has plenty of power for that. So unless you're unhappy with the NAD's power, I'd keep it, it's a damn fine amp

pwrmacg4 · Sep 7, 2008, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by vmarks

gsix, the speakers are really the most important part of the equation. Since the solid-state amplifiers sound reasonably good for the most part across the board, you can buy about any amplifier/receiver at good will. Provided you connect to good speakers, you'll be fine.

It used to be that you had to have larger speakers in order to make good sound - that's really not the case any longer. Six inch to 10 inch woofers will do just fine. The issues to look at are quality of the enclosure the speakers are in - thin mdf (glued up sawdust) or thicker material? Has it got a bass reflex or is it a sealed enclosure? Sealed is almost better if the mfr hasn't done the proper math to get the reflex tube the right volume- some speakers simply have a hole with no tube, and it doesn't match the volume of air that the speaker pushes at all.

which budget manufacturer does not use mdf?

vmarks · Sep 7, 2008, 09:22 AM

There's nothing completely wrong with MDF - but using 1/4 or 3/8 inch MDF is no where near as good as 1/2 or 5/8.

For me, I've gone ahead and remade speakers using 5/8 marine grade plywood, covered with veneer.

Think of it like this: the speaker is similar to a guitar or a drum. The tone is generated by the speaker, instead of a drumhead or string that vibrates a guitar top. The enclosure limits the volume of air the speaker can push, but also impacts what happens to sound waves created when the speaker retracts (pulling in instead of pushing out.)

The better enclosure does affect the sound quality, both in design of air volume relative to speaker specifications, and in materials - thin vibrates with the speaker, or has voids that allow the air to escape, changing the sound. This is why some people line the insides of their speakers with thin insulation, for example.

ShortcutToMoncton · Sep 7, 2008, 09:36 AM

...exactly! MDF might not be the best, but it's pretty much universally used at this price-point, unless he finds a fantastic deal somewhere. And better yet, MDF can still sound absolutely great considering the cost invested.

greg

Doofy · Sep 7, 2008, 11:50 AM

As long as you ain't bothered about severe bass, grab a pair of JBL Control 1.

analogika · Sep 7, 2008, 12:58 PM

I was gonna suggest those...!

BadKosh · Sep 7, 2008, 02:43 PM

Got to ebay and look for components that are built for pro use.

I suggest:

1 Pr JBL 4311 or 4312 monitor loudspeakers.($275-450/pr)
1 Crown D-150a Power amp($250-400)
1 Crown IC-150A preamp.($275 or so)
1 Roku Internet tuner or Slim Devices version.($200 -275 bucks)
1 Thorens TD 160 turntable with Stanton 681ees, or if you really have the bucks a ClearAudio cart.($400-1200)

RickyWong · Sep 7, 2008, 04:49 PM

I'd avoid pro-sound. It's overbuilt and over priced for your intended use. If you want to put together a nice system for not a lot of scratch, just hit up good will, find a nice receiver for under $40, and then find some speakers either on craigslist, or at goodwill. I've had horrid luck with speakers at Goodwill, since the surrounds are almost always damaged, and people like to push in the cone dustcaps. I just checked your local craigslist by typing "vintage" and under $50. I found this as a receiver:

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/ele/831103679.html

and these as speakers.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/ele/829160342.html

If you really want some badass sound, buy the Utah's in this post for $30, and resolder the wires to the drivers. They're apparently loose, and it would take about 10 minutes if you can use a soldering iron. Maybe 45 if you've never done it before.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/829971112.html

If you really keep your eyes open, you can find some AMAZING vintage equipment on craigslist that will buttrape all of this fancy new "hifi" crap that companies try to sell today.

brassplayersrock² · Sep 7, 2008, 05:42 PM

GSixZero, for a test song of the speaker systems you try out, may I suggest "another one bites the dust" by Queen

BadKosh · Sep 7, 2008, 09:16 PM

"I'd avoid pro-sound. It's overbuilt and over priced for your intended use. "

Yeah, you'll like buying junk every 2-3 years, instead of using good stuff for 25+ years like i have.

ShortcutToMoncton · Sep 7, 2008, 10:43 PM

As for "vintage," I recently picked up a Sony STR-6800SD receiver.

Of course, the bad part of "vintage" equipment is the upkeep. My great little Bang & Olufsen system (which was seriously underpowering my Energy Pro Series 4.5 speakers) has just had a little hiccup – the CD player no longer recognizes CDs (it just spits them back out at me). I hope it's not a serious problem, but either way I'm probably in for some serious fiddling around with it....

greg

vmarks · Sep 7, 2008, 10:59 PM

I have a set of aiff files which I play from the ipod. They are of frequencies ranging from 20Hz to 20000Hz at a consistent dB level. This lets me assess if the speakers or receiver have any dropouts or where volume will drop off.

granted, I don't use an SPL when I test, although with the iphone apps that are available, I could. Mostly, I go by ear, since it's my ears doing the listening anyways.