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beangear · Feb 11, 2002, 02:56 AM

I picked up the new Imac at Fry's on Saturday, came home turned it on, and a few moments later. Boom!! I recognized a dead pixel.. (burned pixel) whatever you call it. What do I do? I would care as much if it was in a corner, but it is in the middle of the screen!
Do I take it back to Fry's? Do I call Apple support? Has anyone else had this problem? I'm afraid if I take this back, Iwon't have one for awhile. I hope Apple has an answer for this?

iNeusch · Feb 11, 2002, 03:00 AM

Try to return it... But on LCD screens, dead pixels are frequent

Under 3 dead pixels, Apple won't change the screen under warranty

Mac Zealot · Feb 11, 2002, 03:04 AM

Take it back, and send me an imac too.. I've been waiting too long for my bro's!!!

You don't want to deal with apple for dead pixel problems.

reyzell · Feb 11, 2002, 03:54 AM

One dead pixel is not such a big deal. I've got one dead pixel and I've got to get close and strain just to notice it. Sit back and enjoy your computer.

[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: reyzell ]

dazzla · Feb 11, 2002, 10:34 AM

One dead pixel is not such a big deal. I've got one dead pixel and I've got to get close and strain just to notice it. Sit back and enjoy your computer.

Yeah, but when you're paying over $1000/�1000 you want it to be perfect. I've got a dead pixel on my laptop, and after a while it does grate.

Unfortunately, in your position, I doubt there is much that can be done. Nothing usually gets done until there are at least 3 or 4 dead pixels.

mitchell_pgh · Feb 11, 2002, 10:37 AM

get a ice pick and make some more dead pixles.. then return it...

Seriously, 1 out of 7,000+ isn't bad at all!

gumby5647 · Feb 11, 2002, 10:58 AM

http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/ulti...c&f=5&t=005248

i knew it would happen, i told you so....

Spheric Harlot · Feb 11, 2002, 11:28 AM

Using a soft cloth, *gently* massage the screen around the stuck pixel.

8 times out of 10, this will help it get "unstuck".

Try that, and let's hear if it worked.

-s*

scaught · Feb 11, 2002, 11:58 AM

you know. ive read many many people say to "massage" the screen to make a dead pixel get unstuck. why does that work?

iamnotmad · Feb 11, 2002, 11:58 AM

1 dead pixel? leave it alone and forget about it. If you take it back and get another, there could be two or three.

Chances are it will be more trouble than it's worth to do anything about it.

Ivan · Feb 11, 2002, 12:06 PM

WOW dazzla, that is one huge sig. The mods. are gonna kick your arse.

danbrew · Feb 11, 2002, 12:10 PM

For those of you saying, "Oh, it's only one, don't worry about it", perhaps you've never seen a pixel stuck in the "on" position. I have a Sony 15" lcd screen that has a bright green pixel stuck in the on position in the middle of the screen - it wasn't there initially, it just appeared one day about a year after I started using the product. It's pretty hard to ignore and makes working with graphics a challenge.

I have a few LCD screens, the showcase being a 22" ACD. I'm sure I have a dead pixel or two on the ACD, but I haven't noticed them. I'm also sure that I could do a few tests to determine if there are burned out pixels - it's not that important to me. BUT... if one was to become stuck in the "on" position, I'd more than likely scream to Apple. Why? First, it was $2500. Second, it impacts my work. Third, Apple does have a warranty program. If you raise enough hell at Apple and are under the terms of the warranty, you'll get another one.

In the case of the original poster, you stand a much better chance of having the issue resolved if you take it back to the reseller in relatively short order. You may want to determine their policy on bad pixels and be prepared to be creative as to what is wrong with the unit. You can simply say that the machine shuts off for no reason after it's been on for two hours or so - but there is no pattern that you can detect. If you say you just want another machine, they'll probably swap them on the spot.

fwiw.

danbrew

beangear · Feb 11, 2002, 01:48 PM

Hi, I'm the original poster. I tried the massage thing. And just like my wife, it's not working. I'll try it again, but I doubt it.
I bought it at Fry's and I'm pretty sure they will take it back w/o any problems, right? They have a 15 day return policy on computers.
And for those who are saying, "big deal...deal w/ it." I don't think I would care as much, but it is in the middle of the screen (a little to the left) right where the browser is on Final Cut Pro. So yes it is bugging me to death. It took away all the excitement because now I am not even touching it, (putting programs on it). I'll try the massage thing today, again. Hopefully the Most High will have mercy on me.

Mac Zealot · Feb 11, 2002, 04:01 PM

I have one bright red pixel stuck in the ON position on my cinema display, lower right corner.. right in the middle of the corner (about an inch out),,,,,

Worst yet it's more obvious on dark colors, at least it isn't on all the time, but still VERY ANNOYING since it shows it's ugly face whenever I put something there (sigh)

Oh well... I already got my monitor exchanged, and now my tower as i just noticed has a crack near the handle, and my hard drive seems to be dying (making high pitched sounds on and off, it isn't the fans)

jtc · Feb 11, 2002, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Seriously, 1 out of 7,000+ isn't bad at all!

Don't you mean 1 out of 800,000?

danbrew · Feb 11, 2002, 11:56 PM

ok, 1 out of 800,000. So the G4 will do something like 250,000,000 calculations per second. What's the big deal if it drops a few? And it has some untold number of transistors (or whatever they call them these days) - what's the big deal if a few don't work?

the big deal is that we all pay for a product and we expect it to work as advertised. Apple is asking $2500 for the 22" ACD - if they're going to command a premium price, they have to ensure a high degree of quality control. face it, there are going to be some units that have a pixel stuck in the on position. What to do? How about putting them on the desk of an Apple employee and giving the customer one that doesn't have that flaw?

food for thought.

Mastrap · Feb 12, 2002, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by danbrew:


the big deal is that we all pay for a product and we expect it to work as advertised. Apple is asking $2500 for the 22" ACD - if they're going to command a premium price, they have to ensure a high degree of quality control.

Get your facts sorted, mate. If we would all insist on perfect screens prices would triple overnight. It is not Apples fault, the dead pixel policy is created by the people who make the screens in the first place. I can understand that a "on" pixel can be annoying as hell and should be replaced, otherwise just live with it. I've got one on my iBook and just don't notice it anymore.

micha schraven · Feb 12, 2002, 07:31 AM

Selling a TFT with a dead pixel will make you end up with 1/2 the value of one without flaws. Dead pixels are horrible. You just don't want to spend your money on flawed machines. The Apple-experience will be much less when finding out your new imac has an unpredicted fixationpoint.
Buying straight from a "real" shop or buying one secondhand might be worthwhile if you hate this TFTproblem.

davester · Feb 12, 2002, 09:15 AM

Hehe, perhaps that's why Apple included that screen-cloth - a pixel-massaging device in disguise.

beangear · Feb 12, 2002, 01:39 PM

I don't know how long I have to massage it for. I used the cloth to massage around, on top of it, in circular motions. Is there a particular technique? I even tried to turn it "off" by tapping on it. It worries me to be touching the screen that much. I'm working on a project on it right now, but when I'm done I will be taking it back to Fry's where I have 30 days to take it back. Hopefully by then they'll have a sufficient amount of FP imacs. I'll keep trying because I love this machine.
You know what's weird? It doesn't show up if a window is "on top" of it.

Kristoff · Feb 12, 2002, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by Mac Zealot:
I have one bright red pixel stuck in the ON position on my cinema display, lower right corner.. right in the middle of the corner (about an inch out),,,,,

Worst yet it's more obvious on dark colors, at least it isn't on all the time, but still VERY ANNOYING since it shows it's ugly face whenever I put something there (sigh)

Oh well... I already got my monitor exchanged, and now my tower as i just noticed has a crack near the handle, and my hard drive seems to be dying (making high pitched sounds on and off, it isn't the fans)

I feel your pain. My pismo shipped with a red pixel in the upper right.
Oh well...two years later and it's still there, but I've learned to ignore it. On white backgrounds, it's gone, but on blue backgrounds, it's more obnoxious than ever. Oh well....

Moderator · Feb 12, 2002, 03:30 PM

Get AppleCare..I was told by an Apple Rep at CompUSA that they will replace a display with dead pixel if you have AppleCare whereas without it they won't replace the display unless there are three continuous dead pixels.

According to him the regular warranty is "limited" whereas AppleCare is "comprehensive"...couldn't hurt to axe somebody.

Sebastien · Feb 13, 2002, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by Moderator:
Get AppleCare..I was told by an Apple Rep at CompUSA that they will replace a display with dead pixel if you have AppleCare whereas without it they won't replace the display unless there are three continuous dead pixels.

According to him the regular warranty is "limited" whereas AppleCare is "comprehensive"...couldn't hurt to axe somebody.

Has this worked in the past?

Juggler · Feb 15, 2002, 09:41 PM

Beangear, return the machine.

I once bought a (CRT) monitor from Apple with a dead pixel and thought I would get used to it. But after one year it was still annoying me. (Luckily I was able to replace the monitor just before the one-year warranty expired, but that was because I bought it at school.)

Wardy · Feb 15, 2002, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by Juggler:
Beangear, return the machine.

I once bought a (CRT) monitor from Apple with a dead pixel and thought I would get used to it. But after one year it was still annoying me.

My Bondi Blue developed a dead pixel smack in the middle shortly after I bought it. Applecentres being what they are in Australia (crap after they get your money in my experience) I didn't bother getting it fixed and tried to live with it.

Now there's so much dust and kids' breakfast stains all over it, I can't see it any more

Seriously, I think you have to weigh up the hassle of the exchange vs the future user experience impact it will cause. I was initially disappointed with my dead pixel but it was just a miniscule black spot only visible against bright backgrounds. Sounds like yours is more annoying.

My work Dell laptop had a red pixel stuck on one day and I tried the massage trick with great success! Typical - the company's one is easy to fix and people's personal ones aren't

OldManMac · Feb 15, 2002, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by Moderator:
Get AppleCare..I was told by an Apple Rep at CompUSA that they will replace a display with dead pixel if you have AppleCare whereas without it they won't replace the display unless there are three continuous dead pixels.

According to him the regular warranty is "limited" whereas AppleCare is "comprehensive"...couldn't hurt to axe somebody.

I'd want that in writing before I plunked down my money. AppleCare does not change the policy on number of pixels. I sold an iBook yesterday with 1 dead pixel, and Apple won't cover it, whether you have AppleCare or not! AppleCare extends the original warranty two additional years; as they don't cover 1 dead pixel originally, they won't cover it just because you have AppleCare!!

BTW, this is an issue that affects all laptops, not just Apple's. The yield rate on making good LCDs is around 90%, which means that 10% of them are scrapped. This is one reason LCDs are still much higher priced than CRTs.

[ 02-15-2002: Message edited by: KarlG ]

OverclockedHomoSapien · Feb 17, 2002, 05:37 AM

Get AppleCare..I was told by an Apple Rep at CompUSA that they will replace a display with dead pixel if you have AppleCare whereas without it they won't replace the display unless there are three continuous dead pixels.

According to him the regular warranty is "limited" whereas AppleCare is "comprehensive"...couldn't hurt to axe somebody.

Whoa, easy there dude! "Couldn't hurt to AXE somebody"?? I think murdering someone over a dead pixel is a bit of an over-reaction.

We've got an axe murderer in our midsts!

bassij · Feb 27, 2002, 08:20 AM

I have had 3, yes 3, new imacs pass through my ownership.
EACH ONE HAS DEAD PIXELS.

Brand new, out of the box and faulty. Acceptable numbers of pixels does not cut the mustard with me, if its so acceptable then why is there no warning when you buy from the Apple website.

Steve Jobs may have come a cropper with his flat screen

Sharky K. · Feb 27, 2002, 08:47 AM

I bought a Cinema display at MacHouse.nl there were 3 pixels against each other in the middle so that is very bad :-(
I got a new cinema display with 1 dead pixel... in the beginning I could not live with it but now I don't really care.
If it is not in the middle or where you look much and it isn't a color like red or lemon green I would not go back.

tinrib · Feb 27, 2002, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
get a ice pick and make some more dead pixles.. then return it...

Seriously, 1 out of 7,000+ isn't bad at all!

1 out of 786,432 isn't bad. 1 in 7000 would be pretty terrible.

imacaholic · Feb 27, 2002, 12:18 PM

If Apple's quality control is that bad for those complaining of dead pixels. Please feel free to purchase something else of better quality. Good luck!

Elvin · Feb 27, 2002, 12:24 PM

At least you didn't buy a Toshiba....they won't replace a screen unless there are 15 dead pixels!

Jim Reese · Feb 27, 2002, 01:59 PM

This is a reposting of my comments from another thread...

Defective pixels are not bugs that Apple or any other computer manufacturer can "squash". Active matrix LCD technology is very advanced, but it's still not perfect. No technology is perfect, and anyone who has these expectations for their LCD display needs to better understand the technology, and the incredible quality control the current screens exhibit.

In the case of the iMac, the screen resolution is 1024x768. This equates to 786,432 pixels on the display. Each pixel is controlled by 3 separate transistors, one each for RED, GREEN, and BLUE. So, this now brings the total number of transistors controlling the iMac screen to 2,359,296. That's 2.3 million transistors. A single defective transistor can give you a dead or unresponsive pixel, but that's 1 out of 2.3 million. Anyone who thinks this is unacceptable quality control needs to really get a grip on reality. Having served in the Navy's nuclear submarine program, and now working in the commercial nuclear power industry, I can say with certainty that this level of quality control is far beyond what we have been able to achieve, even with the strict safety and quality standards we have in these programs. NASA couldn't even approach this level of quality control.

I once had a Powerbook with a defective pixel. Having read about everyone's dissatisfaction with defective pixels, I was certainly concerned as I awaited delivery of the machine. When I first saw the bad pixel, I was astonished at how insignificant it was, and how it was a non-issue with anything I was doing with the Powerbook.

I guess I'm just puzzled with the oversensitivity so many users seem to have over defective pixels. A better understanding of the underlying technology often helps to alleviate these concerns, and bring a person's level of acceptance back to realistic levels. The LCD technology is constantly improving, but if they were to reject every screen with a bad pixel, it would double or triple the cost of the perfect displays. Even if a display is perfect upon purchase, pixels do sometimes later become defective at times, and sometimes actually work again. It's just the way the technology works.

I'm looking forward to delivery of my new iMac G4. I hope for a perfect display, but will certainly not be upset if there are a couple of defective pixels, because I understand the quality control and the technology involved.

Wardy · Feb 28, 2002, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by Jim Reese:
This is a reposting of my comments from another thread...

That's 2.3 million transistors. A single defective transistor can give you a dead or unresponsive pixel, but that's 1 out of 2.3 million. Anyone who thinks this is unacceptable quality control needs to really get a grip on reality.

So, to put this in another perspective - out of all the original 6 million G3 iMac's shipped, this would equate to 3 of them being DOA.

That's not bad ....

KellyHogan · Feb 28, 2002, 04:34 AM

If the offending pixel is blue then massaging is the trick to do.
If the pixel is red then there is nothing to do...it is dead.

derbs · Feb 28, 2002, 07:12 AM

Originally posted by KellyHogan:
If the offending pixel is blue then massaging is the trick to do.
If the pixel is red then there is nothing to do...it is dead.

great work from our in-house poet there

seriosuly though, this is why designing on LCDs is such a no-no. Not only are there annoying stuck pixels, but colours on flat-screens are so much different to CRTs, which really rules out web work on them

Jim Reese · Feb 28, 2002, 10:28 PM

I received my iMac G4 from Outpost.com today, and I'm happy to report the LCD display is perfect... NO DEAD PIXELS.

I hope others are as fortunate as me. I suspect the defective pixel issue is not as widespread as it appears from reading these posts. I doubt many iMac owners with perfect screens post here.

seanyepez · Feb 28, 2002, 10:34 PM

I'm almost sure that Apple uses reject 15-inch LCD's that won't cut it for their Studio Display line on their LCD iMacs.

Wardy · Mar 6, 2002, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by KellyHogan:
If the offending pixel is blue then massaging is the trick to do.
If the pixel is red then there is nothing to do...it is dead.

I like the poem but I massaged way a red pixel on my Dell laptop. It was only stuck for a minute before I (successfully) massaged it away.

kstevens · Mar 6, 2002, 02:07 PM

So what are the possible conditons on a stuck/dead pixel? I have one grey one on a 17 inch apple display (that's 1 out of 1,310,720 pixels). It doesn't bother me since you really have to look to see it and it's on the bottom left corner. I assume a grey pixel is truly dead, not stuck on one of the the colors. This one won't massage back on either.

Ken