[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

The GameCube is more powerful than the PS2. No doubt about it in terms of video processing it is better. GoMac says this, everyone know that. The PS2 has way less video RAM, way less CPU.
- PS2 can do 1080i and no sweat, the gamecube cannot. The slim PS2 is tiny, $100 and has a DVD player and puts out high def.

2) The gamecube is about the same horsepower visually as the Xbox 1 as everyone can agree.
- The Xbox does 1080i and 5.1.

3) The Wii is "twice as powerful" as the Cube or at the very least a bit better than the Xbox 1.
- WHY CAN IT NOT DO 720p/1080i? WHY NO 5.1 AUDIO? It makes no sense!

If 1080i is so easy, one must wonder why Halo 2 on the XBox was only 480p.

Oh wait, no we don't, it's obvious, for the same reason it's obvious on the Gamecube.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Icruise 

I understand what you mean, but what I was getting at is that they should include some way to save your games with the system, just as a courtesy for people who may not realize that you need a card. (Imagine kids on Christmas finding out that they can't save their games.) But if the Wii has internal storage then this isn't an issue.

Originally Posted by ort888 

And again... (for the posters above) the Wii comes with 512megs of built in internal memory for saving games and such.

Ditto. Also the actual Wii-mote is said to have some (minimal) storage capacity as well, so you can take your Wii-mote to a friend's house and play with your Mii or your game file.

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Forcing the industry to take a step back graphics-wise and reevaluate what really makes games what they are, and what really makes them good, is exactly what this industry needs. Whether or not the Wii succeeds, the fact that someone had the guts to make it is the best thing to happen to this industry in years, and I plan on supporting it for that reason.

Well said, Millennium! This is one of the reasons I'm set on getting the Wii. I want to cast my "vote" for the candidate systems, and I want the Wii and it's underlying philosophy to win.

Originally Posted by zerostar 

How many here have pre-orders? Hope to see a bunch of reviews before I go out and buy, although I am VERY anxious to get one now...

I usually do this-- I am patient, so I can wait for a while and see what problems arise in game play and hopefully see a solution before I buy. That said, the Wii is $250 (or say somewhat more than $300 with extra controllers, etc.) and not a $1,000+ Mac which I usually do this for.

I plan to pick one up the first month unless there are really severe problems, and I'll probably grab one even before then. I haven't pre-ordered, but I have a friend who, perhaps foolishly, pre-ordered an extra Wii to sell, but had his auction cancelled, so I told him that if he can't find anyone to sell to, I'd buy it off of him, as a favor to him, since I'll be getting one anyway.

Originally Posted by zerostar 

Any insight what the DS integration will be?

Don't know, but I'm not betting on anything really big. Still, with Wi-Fi and superior capabilities, DS connectivity could mean a whole lot more than the old GBA connectivity options. I just got a DS, and I'm curious too, but I got it for the system and the games, not really counting on what may come.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Oh god not that again! WHY WHY!! They did the same with the Cube and it honestly took a YEAR before anyone could easily get one online or otherwise. Even the Cube supported 480p and for the first year everyone was stuck with S-video at best.

Now that you say that, I'm more concerned about being able to pre-order the component cables instead of the Wii itself! I'm not a stickler for graphics, but I find that the image is noticeably better with component cables than with a regular composite/RCA/RGB connection. Heck, my Dreamcast looks noticeably better using an S-Video than regular composite/RCA/RGB, so it is a bit of a deal for me.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales 

I plan to pick one up the first month unless there are really severe problems, and I'll probably grab one even before then. I haven't pre-ordered, but I have a friend who, perhaps foolishly, pre-ordered an extra Wii to sell, but had his auction cancelled, so I told him that if he can't find anyone to sell to, I'd buy it off of him, as a favor to him, since I'll be getting one anyway.

Yeah, you never know, but I doubt that people are going to be paying big bucks for the Wii on ebay, simply because there's not going to be a shortage of them. But couldn't your friend just cancel his preorder?

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Icruise 

Yeah, you never know, but I doubt that people are going to be paying big bucks for the Wii on ebay, simply because there's not going to be a shortage of them. But couldn't your friend just cancel his preorder?

Hmm... I don't know. I hadn't even considered that, and I doubt he has either. Seems it was too obvious a solution. Hehe. He's in no danger of losing money though, since I'll gladly pay him what he paid to get it. Only thing is that he might not be able to make money off of it.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by goMac 

If 1080i is so easy, one must wonder why Halo 2 on the XBox was only 480p.

Oh wait, no we don't, it's obvious, for the same reason it's obvious on the Gamecube.

Oh wait, halo 2 was what on the same hardware....?

[icruise]

Since the subject of saving games came up, does anyone know if the Wii will allow you to use GameCube memory cards (perhaps with an adapter, a la the PS3)? I'd like to be able to transfer over my saved games from the GameCube.

[zro]

There are GCN memory cards slots where the GCN controller ports are. I doubt save files can be transferred to the Wii or SD cards, though it would be nice.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

Oh wait, halo 2 was what on the same hardware....?

The XBox was capable of HD, but Halo 2 on the XBox only output 480p. Despite the hardware being able to output the higher resolution, there was no way in hell it could do Halo 2 in 1080p.

The reason GT can be rendered in 1080p on the PS2 is because GT is not graphically complex. Yes, I know it looks graphically complex. It's not. GT uses a lot of 2D objects which don't take much time to render. When you're traveling through the game at 80 MPH you can take a lot more shortcuts, and cut out detail or depth that the user is not going to notice when you travel fast. Add some lighting effects, and make the car shiney, and it works.

My guess is Nintendo just said "screw it", and just decided the number of games that would fall under this category was too small. For example, LOTZ:TP is certainly not one of those games.

[Gamoe]

25- days to the Wii... Hmm, still seems too long!!

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales 

25- days to the Wii... Hmm, still seems too long!!

Just look at it as only a few more Wii-kends.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

Just look at it as only a few more Wii-kends.

[Dark Helmet]

Here is another review that is less fanboy based. Apparently Zelda looks like **** (and Nintendo doesn't care) and is more of the same but with a new control method:

bit-tech.net | Nintendo hands-on (p)Wiiview

[starman]

Damn good, unbiased article. It echoes everything we've been concerned about.

"Is it a novelty?". I've been saying that for MONTHS. Sure it would be cool to play Zelda or a Star Wars lightsaber game with the Wii, but for how long?

"It's all about the gameplay". How arrogant. If the graphics are so bad that they're a distraction, then it takes away from the immersion of the game.

[Dark Helmet]

The story didn't comment on all the other reports about the fishy sensor bar where "you don't point at the screen but actually the bar" which is my #1 concern. If that doesn't work how is pointing at something other than the screen make any sense.

He also mentions how it is made to be played while standing which is mostly true. How can you play golf sitting on a couch? Even fishing in Zelda might be odd as if you swing your arm back to cast you have to be careful not to hit the wall behind you. I'm not lazy but Zelda fans have 4-6 runs no problem, all that swinging will become tiresome.

[starman]

It makes me wonder, Millennium made a good point that the games themselves have to be better, and I agree. Is Nintendo so out of original ideas with a standard controller that they had to make a new one?

[Dakar²]

That would scream 'gimmick.'

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by starman 

It makes me wonder, Millennium made a good point that the games themselves have to be better, and I agree. Is Nintendo so out of original ideas with a standard controller that they had to make a new one?

How many new game idea's is Nintendo been putting out lately for home systems? The last original one that I can remember for someone over the age of 10 was Pikmin.

Everything after that point was just "put our franchise characters into something else, make a sequel, or port an old game."

[starman]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

That would scream 'gimmick.'

Yup. And I said that already a while back.

[Dakar²]

I recall.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

That would scream 'gimmick.'

Other hands on experiences have said the same. Is the Wii going to be a drunkin' party system?

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Is the Wii going to be a drunkin' party system?

It could take off, then.

[Dark Helmet]

Factor 5 who helped push good graphics/audio and helped Nintendo with the Gamecube Audio design isn't happy with the Wii calling it GameCube 1.5 because the audio/video are bla:

News: Factor 5 disappointed with Wii - ComputerAndVideoGames.com

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by starman 

It makes me wonder, Millennium made a good point that the games themselves have to be better, and I agree. Is Nintendo so out of original ideas with a standard controller that they had to make a new one?

Was Picasso so out of ideas with normal-looking people that he had to paint them all cockeyed?

By the way, as for bad graphics distracting you: I can still play Sonic the Hedgehog and totally enjoy it, just as much as the day it came out. I think a good game is a good game.

Hey, I'm clinically insane! Eep!

[starman]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Was Picasso so out of ideas with normal-looking people that he had to paint them all cockeyed?

And today he's known for drawing cockeyed people. Will Nintendo be known for it's cockeyed controller?

[Dakar²]

I've been playing GoldenEye for the past week, and it blows my mind how back then, I thought the characters were mind-blowingly recognizable (if not distorted), while now I find them maddeningly mangled and barely recognizable.

Also, major jaggies.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

I've been playing GoldenEye for the past week, and it blows my mind how back then, I thought the characters were mind-blowingly recognizable (if not distorted), while now I find them maddeningly mangled and barely recognizable.

Also, major jaggies.

That is the other edge of the graphics sword. If your game depends on having technically impressive graphics, eventually those tricks will be outdated and then a big part of your game will suck. If you plan to have good-but-not-technically-amazing graphics all along (like all the good old Nintendo and Super Nintendo games), they'll always have the look you intended.

Not to say that good graphics are bad — there are a lot of great games that I think have been helped a lot by graphics — just that there is kind of the method to the madness of not pursuing the highest poly count and most pants-wetting shaders.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

That is the other edge of the graphics sword. If your game depends on having technically impressive graphics, eventually those tricks will be outdated and then a big part of your game will suck. If you plan to have good-but-not-technically-amazing graphics all along (like all the good old Nintendo and Super Nintendo games), they'll always have the look you intended.

Not to say that good graphics are bad — there are a lot of great games that I think have been helped a lot by graphics — just that there is kind of the method to the madness of not pursuing the highest poly count and most pants-wetting shaders.

Well, the flip side of the coin is I said I've been playing it all week -- because it's still a good game.

For the record I consider 16-bit graphics (sprites in general) a style of their own. The black & white to video games color (3-d).

I'd like to think there's room for both in this world.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

I've been playing GoldenEye for the past week, and it blows my mind how back then, I thought the characters were mind-blowingly recognizable (if not distorted), while now I find them maddeningly mangled and barely recognizable.

Also, major jaggies.

I tried it years ago and I found the framerate so bad it made me sick.

I also tried rouge squad 5 years ago on N64 which was my fav game and again the framerate was so poor it was almost hard to control. That and it was full of the infamous N64 fog to hide distant renders.

More recently I remember getting Zelda WW and even though it was my fav Zelda immediately I noticed how things about 20 feet infront of Link was blurry. It was so obvious that forums were full of people thinking it was a defect. Obviously it wasn't but the Cube had the horsepower but I guess Nintendo didn't put enough effort into optimizing the draw distance which is usually the norm for them.

[Dakar²]

Wow, you'd take WW over Ocarina?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

Wow, you'd take WW over Ocarina?

Yes. I honestly enjoyed it more as I like the water world and the cell shading.

The only thing I can't stand about it is the dialog text. I didn't annoy me that much the first time I played it as I actually read it for clues but the second time around every-time you talk to someone you just pound the A button to dismiss the line of text and have them hurry the hell up.

I'll take a fully animated and voiced cut scene that I can skip if I want over reading 10 lines of text for 1 minute pounding a button.

I got on my nerves so much that halfway through my second play I got fed up and stopped.

Apparently since the Wii can take 9 gig DVD's there is room for Zelda to have voices in the upcoming version thank god. Hope the Cube version does also.

[Adam Betts]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

More recently I remember getting Zelda WW and even though it was my fav Zelda immediately I noticed how things about 20 feet infront of Link was blurry. It was so obvious that forums were full of people thinking it was a defect. Obviously it wasn't but the Cube had the horsepower but I guess Nintendo didn't put enough effort into optimizing the draw distance which is usually the norm for them.

Just a FYI, that blurring was done on purpose for artsy visual. Nintendo themselves admitted that they over-did it a little but it is not a bug or related to horsepower.

[Dakar²]

Cell shading is fine, but I found the art style deplorable.

As for the dialogs, I'm with about the button pounding. I read fast and having to watch it scroll was horrible (not to mention if you accidentally talk to someone).

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Adam Betts 

Just a FYI, that blurring was done on purpose for artsy visual. Nintendo themselves admitted that they over-did it a little but it is not a bug or related to horsepower.

Right the old "It's not a bug it is a feature".

Anyway, I think Nintendo only tests it games on 19" non-widescreen TV's with S-video as that is what the games look good on. Anything bigger and things get all sorts of jaggy and blurry.

RE4 looks HORRID on a 40"+ widescreen TV which is odd considering it pushed the limits of the system.

[ort888]

Resident Evil does look horrible on a HD set. It was jarring when I got my HDTV seeing the best looking game ever go from incredible on a regular TV to terrible on my fancy new set. It was eye opening to say the least.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Resident Evil does look horrible on a HD set. It was jarring when I got my HDTV seeing the best looking game ever go from incredible on a regular TV to terrible on my fancy new set. It was eye opening to say the least.

Really? Perhaps I'm not as picky, but I think that my Dreamcast and the PS2 looks just dandy on a 42" HDTV. Of course, I wasn't expecting a crystal clear image, but it looked just fine to me.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales 

Really? Perhaps I'm not as picky, but I think that my Dreamcast and the PS2 looks just dandy on a 42" HDTV. Of course, I wasn't expecting a crystal clear image, but it looked just fine to me.

It is more that RE4 looks worse them most games as it is supper grainy and jaggy.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Apparently since the Wii can take 9 gig DVD's there is room for Zelda to have voices in the upcoming version thank god. Hope the Cube version does also.

Is Zelda really going to have voices? I think the lack of voices is at least partially a stylistic choice, and not just a technical limitation. Done wrong, it can ruin the game. Non-voiced text seems to suit the franchise a lot better.

But beyond that, I can't for the life of me understand how adding voices would help in the case you described (getting tired of pressing a button to advance the text) since voice takes about 3 times as long as text, and in all likelihood you're going to have text and voices together anyway, not just voice.

[goMac]

Zelda doesn't have voices. Thank goodness.

[himself]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Zelda doesn't have voices. Thank goodness.

I, for one, prefer text to potentially cheesy voice overs. Besides, reading is fundamental.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Icruise 

Is Zelda really going to have voices?

I read something 6 month ago that said it would. Either it was wrong or they changed it.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by himself 

I, for one, prefer text to potentially cheesy voice overs. Besides, reading is fundamental.

I could see them doing voices someday for the minor characters, but for the major characters, it's just better to leave them voiceless. Last thing we need is this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q2-uzf5Gjp4

[angelmb]

EDGE on Zelda,



"The message is clear, this time Nintendo has made a game unafraid to stand tall beside those two previous titles (OOT, LTTP) widely regarded as the greatest in a series of greats. This is no 'what if' whimsy like the WW or the minish cap. TP is Zelda by the book and there's every sign that it's the most involved, the most ambitious, the just plain biggest zelda there's ever been."

"The sheer amount of content in TP is overwhelming. It throws new skills, items and intriguing twists at you far faster than any zelda before it."

"Epona is no slender pony this time, instead a solid, gigantic, invincible animal."

During the first 6 hours you will have done more than the equivalent of 3 dungeons in on any other zelda game in terms of new items, skills etc.

The first dungeon reminiscent of the forest temple is

"though hardly hard, it's probably as involved and suprising as any other initial zelda dungeon, if not more so."

"you begin to get a sense of the sheer dizzying scope of TP, it threatens to be absolutely immense, an epic seldom rivalled in scale outside the rpg form (and never by another launch game) and loaded heavier than ever with items, details and possibilities as yet unseen in a test that made 6 hours feel like 6 minutes."

"It's almost forbidding, TP is certainly no populist rethink of zelda, in tune with the popular all cuddly all access Wii. It is instead an all guns blazing assault on the hardcore, a fanboys wet dream (if there's any worry at all it's that it might overburden itself)"

"That's reflected in the involved controls of the wii version, though not as off putting as the E3 demo, when introduced and gradually relaxed into over time, they are delicate, sometimes demanding and occasionally frustraing. Attack gestures flow beautifully, but are sticky to start and jumping to pointer aiming can be awkward and dis-orientating. However they more than make up for it with tremendous tactile excitement, the shrill thrill of the speaker effects and the very real and seriously welcome freedom and comfort that comes from having your hands attached by 3 feet of wire, not 3 inches of plastic. . Factor in the Wii only widescreen support -no small consideration- and it's clear which version is a must have."

"The questions it answers are the important ones. Is it a challenge? Is it a mystery? Will it make your heart stop? Is it Zelda? Yes, yes, yes and yes."

[Hawkeye_a]

Sweeeeeet


I have yet to beat the water temple in OOT (which is a pretty darn good game).

[Adam Betts]

Wow, very good review but I'm still keeping my expectation very low as OoT's original director and some of the very important people aren't working on Zelda:TP. I didn't enjoy Majora's Mask and somewhat liked Zelda:TWW but absolutely hated forever sailing part and several other things. Both of them are directed by Eiji Aonuma so I'm unsure. We shall see on Nov 19th.

[Adam Betts]

Flashbacking:

GDC 2004: Wind Waker 2 Official
Timeline reveals plans for GCN release.
http://cube.ign.com/articles/501/501735p1.html

Glad it didn't happened

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by angelmb 

"That's reflected in the involved controls of the wii version, though not as off putting as the E3 demo, when introduced and gradually relaxed into over time, they are delicate, sometimes demanding and occasionally frustraing. Attack gestures flow beautifully, but are sticky to start and jumping to pointer aiming can be awkward and dis-orientating.

How in the world does that not worry anyone? He pretty much says the CONTROLS are the weakest part of the game. Isn't the whole point of the Wii the new/better/differerent/more accurate controller?

What it sounds like is just because it is Zelda every major flaw like bad controls don't matter because it is Zelda, period.

Also they recommend people get the Wii one just because it has widescreen which kinda nails the point of how it is a marketing tactic and more people have widescreens that some folks here want to admit.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

How in the world does that not worry anyone? He pretty much says the CONTROLS are the weakest part of the game. Isn't the whole point of the Wii the new/better/differerent/more accurate controller?

Way to take that quote out of context. Here's the rest of the quote in case you've forgotten it...

Originally Posted by IGN

However they more than make up for it with tremendous tactile excitement, the shrill thrill of the speaker effects and the very real and seriously welcome freedom and comfort that comes from having your hands attached by 3 feet of wire, not 3 inches of plastic.

Translation: the control have a little bit of a learning curve, but it's improved since the initial demos, and once you're over that curve they're just about The Best Thing Ever.

What it sounds like is just because it is Zelda every major flaw like bad controls don't matter because it is Zelda, period.

In other words, despite the problems, it's a fun game to play. Isn't that what matters?

Besides which, the controls are never called bad in that article, or indeed any other that I've read. Quite the opposite: all of the reviewers are quick to acknowledge that things aren't perfect, but then come around with glowing praise of how, even with these flaws, it works well.

Also they recommend people get the Wii one just because it has widescreen which kinda nails the point of how it is a marketing tactic and more people have widescreens that some folks here want to admit.

A hardcore gamer recommends that other hardcore gamers get the widescreen version. This is what's known as preaching to the choir. In the general market you don't find that many widescreens, because the general market just doesn't care.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Translation: the control have a little bit of a learning curve, but it's improved since the initial demos, and once you're over that curve they're just about The Best Thing Ever.

How did you get that from this?

""That's reflected in the involved controls of the wii version, though not as off putting as the E3 demo, when introduced and gradually relaxed into over time, they are delicate, sometimes demanding and occasionally frustraing. Attack gestures flow beautifully, but are sticky to start and jumping to pointer aiming can be awkward and dis-orientating. However they more than make up for it with tremendous tactile excitement, the shrill thrill of the speaker effects and the very real and seriously welcome freedom and comfort that comes from having your hands attached by 3 feet of wire, not 3 inches of plastic."

They said "not as off putting" which mean not prone to ruin the game.

He said they are "delicate, demanding and frustrating, sticky o start, awkward and dis-orienting" but somehow because the same controller has a tiny speaker and 3 feet of wire it makes up for all that??? Are you serious?

[dale]

Apologies if it appears like I have just come back to earth after 12 months away.... I am NOT a gamer - the last time I bought a game was the Goldeneye 007 shoot-em up on the Nintendo.

But......

I realy want one of these - I have just seen the movies of people playing the sports games (Tennis, Golf, bowling) for the first time - and realised just how inclusive this is..

It appears anyone can come round to visit and competently have a go, without needing to learn how to play.

I really hope Nintendo makes a lot of mopney out of this, beacuse they deserve to. These devices are so cheap in comparison to the competition as well. Good on yer Nintedo!!

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by dale 

Apologies if it appears like I have just come back to earth after 12 months away.... I am NOT a gamer - the last time I bought a game was the Goldeneye 007 shoot-em up on the Nintendo.

Hard to believe, but that was 10 years ago.