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phrenzy · Apr 28, 2003, 02:48 PM

I may be alone in this, but

#1 - I already have a firewire car charger in my car, now I have to get a new 'dock' charger?

#2 - The old iPods can use a standard Firewire cable to connect to any machine (as a hard drive or whatever) - now you have to carry around the 'dock' cable everywhere you go.

#3 - The remote on the new iPods is NOT inline. That means that you get to have to cables protruding from your iPod while running / working out / driving if you want to avoid fumbling with the ipod without looking.

Wow, I never thought this would happen, but I would RATHER have th 'old' iPod

my old 10 gig just got stolen and I waited for the new ones.

In my car, basically, I have my casette / line in adapter, going in to my remote then my remote just goes in to my iPod input. Simple. If I need to charge the iPod anywhere, just plug it in to a firewire connection.

Apple really needs to get off of that proprietary connector kick.

mbperk · Apr 28, 2003, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by phrenzy:
IWow, I never thought this would happen, but I would RATHER have th 'old' iPod

my old 10 gig just got stolen and I waited for the new ones.

Wanna buy mine?

sith33 · Apr 28, 2003, 02:57 PM

the new remote is inline. If you look at the accessories page, you'll see that the remote plugs in to both the headphone jack and the "extra" jack on the top, then the headphones plug into the remote.

zigzag · Apr 28, 2003, 03:38 PM

All models come with a cable that substitutes for the dock. The 10GB model doesn't even come with a dock. You can relax.

phrenzy · Apr 28, 2003, 03:49 PM

Oh I understand that they all come with the cable, but - basically, it's just more of a pain to have to carry around that cable wherever you go. On the old iPods, if you went to somebody who had a firewire cable - you could hook your iPod up - period.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 28, 2003, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by phrenzy:
Oh I understand that they all come with the cable, but - basically, it's just more of a pain to have to carry around that cable wherever you go. On the old iPods, if you went to somebody who had a firewire cable - you could hook your iPod up - period.

Yup I agree. No longer can you walk up to any mac with firewire and charge that baby up.

escher · Apr 28, 2003, 04:22 PM

I wonder why Apple didn't just use a FireWire plug at the bottom of the new iPods instead of the new docking connector.

It's not like the new connector does anything that a FireWire plug couldn't do.

I'm still planning on buying a new 15 or 30GB model. I've resisted the urge to become an iPod user for long enough now.

Escher

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 28, 2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by escher:
IIt's not like the new connector does anything that a FireWire plug couldn't do.

it does. It has audio out so when it is in the dock the sound can go through to your stereo.

Aykew · Apr 28, 2003, 04:38 PM

The physical size of the firewire plug was probably too large to fit in the new design. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before griffin or Dr. Bott comes out with a short dongle that will clip to the end of the new iPod and translate the new plug to the standard firewire. (Probably uses the same pinouts, just in a new config)

2far · Apr 28, 2003, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
it does. It has audio out so when it is in the dock the sound can go through to your stereo.

And also USB2, I suppose? Which is probably the reason for the special cable - one connector for all cables. I disagree with this decision, of course.

slider · Apr 28, 2003, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by sith33:
the new remote is inline. If you look at the accessories page, you'll see that the remote plugs in to both the headphone jack and the "extra" jack on the top, then the headphones plug into the remote.

I guess the Grefen iTrip and iFM is gonna be a short seller.

MrBS · Apr 28, 2003, 05:05 PM

Yeah they'll be adaptors and you'll be able to put another cable in line to charge it on someone's computer... but now you need to bring that cable along all the time and that makes it pretty likely that you'll lose it.

~BS

anoetic · Apr 28, 2003, 06:18 PM

But from Apple's and the record companies point of view you shouldn't be using your iPod on someone elses computer. Illegal song distribution.

And it's not like every other MP3 player doesn't use a proprietary connection.

CMG · Apr 28, 2003, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by phrenzy:
I may be alone in this, but

#1 - I already have a firewire car charger in my car, now I have to get a new 'dock' charger?

Apple really needs to get off of that proprietary connector kick.

You can get a FireWire car charger without a built-in cable. FirePOD does both USB and FireWire charging. Voltage in both connectors are regulated according to specification. FirePOD was designed to deal with Apple's tendency to mess with a good thing.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 28, 2003, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by anoetic:
But from Apple's and the record companies point of view you shouldn't be using your iPod on someone elses computer. Illegal song distribution.

we are talking about CHARGING!

83caddy16v · Apr 28, 2003, 11:01 PM

I agree, I've got my car all setup to run the iPod through the factory Volvo stereo and I use the firewire port for charging.

I was going to hand my ol' 5gig iPod to my brother but after seeing the lack of a fire wire port I can't.

Why not put a USB 2.0 & Firewire ports on the bottom and if someone wants the dock the cradle could accomdate both. If the design of the new iPod wouldn't accomdate, put one on the top and one on the bottom.

Apple, Apple, Apple.

djjava · Apr 28, 2003, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by 83caddy16v:
Why not put a USB 2.0 & Firewire ports on the bottom and if someone wants the dock the cradle could accomdate both. If the design of the new iPod wouldn't accomdate, put one on the top and one on the bottom.

Apple, Apple, Apple.

FireWire 800 anyone???

Eug · Apr 28, 2003, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by djjava:
FireWire 800 anyone???

The drive is too slow for Firewire 400, much less Firewire 800.

swsteckly · Apr 29, 2003, 12:12 AM

Give me a break. You don't have to carry around a FireWire cable - you have to carry around a dock cable. How is this any more inconvienent? It allows the use of FireWire, USB 2, and audio out from one connector. I think it's great.

Someone will soon come out with a car charger with the dock plug at the end, just like they did with firewire plugs on them.

icruise · Apr 29, 2003, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
The drive is too slow for Firewire 400, much less Firewire 800.

To clarify, I assume you mean that the drive isn't fast enough to max out a firewire 400 connection, much less firewire 800. And that's true -- there's really no need to put firewire 800 on the iPods.

Mastrap · Apr 29, 2003, 03:18 AM

Originally posted by anoetic:
But from Apple's and the record companies point of view you shouldn't be using your iPod on someone elses computer. Illegal song distribution.

And it's not like every other MP3 player doesn't use a proprietary connection.

This probably hits the nail on the head. The dock might very well be part of the deal Apple made with the record companies. Make it difficult to use the iPod as a drive.

I'm glad I bought mine when I did.

pamelah · Apr 29, 2003, 03:57 AM

I just got the "old" 20gig model last week. Should I sell it and get this new one?! I'm a switcher and I'm not really sure about the pros and cons for either one. All I do know is that when i have my iskin on I find it really hard to use the buttons that are around the scroll wheel...but onthe other hand i don't use them too much.Plus anything that is thinner and lighter has to be good? I also already have the car charger and have ordered the iFM and iTRIP...will these fit on the new one? Are the new one's *that* much lighter? is the new one able to hook up to PC's AND macs? (where as the old one had to be specifically for mac or pc)

Paco Loco · Apr 29, 2003, 05:09 AM

Anyone know what the support for OS9 is like with the new iPods? As usual Apple seem to be pretending that it never existed on their website - there's no mention of whether the new iPod will work on it...

mishap · Apr 29, 2003, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by Paco Loco:
Anyone know what the support for OS9 is like with the new iPods? As usual Apple seem to be pretending that it never existed on their website - there's no mention of whether the new iPod will work on it...

i guess we'll see when one of us tries it

deadmole · Apr 29, 2003, 09:55 AM

OK, this is pretty much off topic, so I apologize, but if you guys can point me to the right place to go with this then let me know.

I have a TouchScroll 10GB iPod that I am most likely going to sell in order to get one of the new ones. The looks and compact size are enough for me to want one. And all touch buttons... so yummy. Anyway. I want to sell mine for about 300-325 (car charger included plus all the other stuff that came with it). Where would a good place to put the word out before resorting to eBay? I just want to be able to not shell out TOO much money for the new ones, and it seems like a lot of people are mad they didn't get an old one. I strictly use mine for putting music on and listening so I dont need the easy drive ability or anything. Ok.

x user · Apr 29, 2003, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by pamelah:
I just got the "old" 20gig model last week. Should I sell it and get this new one?! I'm a switcher and I'm not really sure about the pros and cons for either one. All I do know is that when i have my iskin on I find it really hard to use the buttons that are around the scroll wheel...but onthe other hand i don't use them too much.Plus anything that is thinner and lighter has to be good? I also already have the car charger and have ordered the iFM and iTRIP...will these fit on the new one? Are the new one's *that* much lighter? is the new one able to hook up to PC's AND macs? (where as the old one had to be specifically for mac or pc)

Well, I don't know that much about the accessories, but I believe the iFM will still work. I don't know what the iTrip does, but it might. For some people that were waiting for the new models, and don't like them your 20GB would be in demand, but unless you could get back your $500, i'd just stick with it. It's not huge difference between the two featurewise. I'd say the biggest difference is on-the-fly playlists. Since the old iPods will support the new file formats with the firmware upgrade, I'd say just be happy with your 20gb.

mfessenden · Apr 29, 2003, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by anoetic:
But from Apple's and the record companies point of view you shouldn't be using your iPod on someone elses computer. Illegal song distribution.

And it's not like every other MP3 player doesn't use a proprietary connection.

For charging purposes. You can't drag songs from your iTunes library on a mounted iPod to another drive, so you'd have to store them as data which is pretty redundant. I charge my iPod daily on my work Mac, which doesn't have any MP3s at all.

Powaqqatsi · Apr 29, 2003, 11:36 AM

What about batterylife ? 8 hours ???

hadocon · Apr 29, 2003, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by zigzag:
All models come with a cable that substitutes for the dock. The 10GB model doesn't even come with a dock. You can relax.

yah, but he still has to bring _that_ cable with him were ever he goes. I liked being able to find any old firewire cable that was laying around in the lab...

zigzag · Apr 29, 2003, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by hadocon:
yah, but he still has to bring _that_ cable with him were ever he goes. I liked being able to find any old firewire cable that was laying around in the lab...

Right, good point, which he already noted. I originally thought he was afraid that he would have to use the dock wherever he went.

AssassyN · Apr 29, 2003, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by pamelah:
I just got the "old" 20gig model last week. Should I sell it and get this new one?! I'm a switcher and I'm not really sure about the pros and cons for either one. All I do know is that when i have my iskin on I find it really hard to use the buttons that are around the scroll wheel...but onthe other hand i don't use them too much.Plus anything that is thinner and lighter has to be good? I also already have the car charger and have ordered the iFM and iTRIP...will these fit on the new one? Are the new one's *that* much lighter? is the new one able to hook up to PC's AND macs? (where as the old one had to be specifically for mac or pc)

I'd keep it. I'm so happy I got my old 10GIG iPod at a Target closeout, the button layout is sweeter, it uses a normal FireWire out so you can use that same FireWire cable for other accessories and Mac-to-Mac file transfers. Plus, your charger won't work w/ the new ones, and the iFM and iTRIP most probably won't because the new iPods have a differently designed remote and headphone jack. Plus, forget getting a case for the new ones for quite some time, and during that time it'll get all scratched up. The new one's aren't that much lighter...I mean your 20GIG is light as it is; the new ones are only marginally smaller/lighter, but of course they'd advertise anything to sell them. The new ones will work w/ PC or Mac in one unit, however, not at the same time. (I'm about 99% sure on this, however I *could* be wrong). My advice? Keep it. I'm extremely happy I've got my old 10 GIG, escp. for the standard FireWire port.

AssassyN · Apr 29, 2003, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
What about batterylife ? 8 hours ???

Battery life is *shorter* than the 10+ hours you can get out of the old iPods. Not a good thing.

xtal · Apr 29, 2003, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by AssassyN:
Battery life is *shorter* than the 10+ hours you can get out of the old iPods. Not a good thing.

That's one of the points of the new iPods that I don't understand. Sure, making it a bit smaller is nice, but what about sacrificing more than 20% of the battery power?

ryanbrown345 · Apr 29, 2003, 02:47 PM

Has anyone got 10 hours on there old battery life? I never did it was more like 8. Most likely they are telling more of the truth. So don't just read the stat pages.

Luca Rescigno · Apr 29, 2003, 03:25 PM

I usually got 10 hours on my 5 GB iPod when I had it.

escher · Apr 30, 2003, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by phrenzy:
#2 - The old iPods can use a standard Firewire cable to connect to any machine (as a hard drive or whatever) - now you have to carry around the 'dock' cable everywhere you go.

An interesting piece about feature creep in the iPod posted on PDA Geek made me think that there is more to the new dock connector than meets the eye. All that's missing from the new iPod is a way to input data on the road (without an iBook or PowerBook, of course). The new non-standard FireWire connector on the iPod2 might be used for a keyboard in the future. Wouldn't that be a great prospect?

I thought a quick and dirty mockup of an iPod2 with keyboard would be fun.

Please pardon the poor perspective and ugly seams. Anyone care to do a better job and post the result?

I still think an Apple PDA-phone is more likely than a keyboard for the iPod2. But who knows, maybe there really is more to the new FireWire dock connector than meets the eye. Maybe the Newton is coming back...

Escher

KeriVit · Apr 30, 2003, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by deadmole:
OK, this is pretty much off topic, so I apologize, but if you guys can point me to the right place to go with this then let me know.

I have a TouchScroll 10GB iPod that I am most likely going to sell in order to get one of the new ones. The looks and compact size are enough for me to want one. And all touch buttons... so yummy. Anyway. I want to sell mine for about 300-325 (car charger included plus all the other stuff that came with it). Where would a good place to put the word out before resorting to eBay? I just want to be able to not shell out TOO much money for the new ones, and it seems like a lot of people are mad they didn't get an old one. I strictly use mine for putting music on and listening so I dont need the easy drive ability or anything. Ok.

I saw that Powermax is taking trade-ins of the old for the new. Not sure how much, but it might ease the blow.

higuy83 · Apr 30, 2003, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by escher:
I wonder why Apple didn't just use a FireWire plug at the bottom of the new iPods instead of the new docking connector. It's not like the new connector does anything that a FireWire plug couldn't do.

I remember hearing that in the early days of the iPod, some mac users would go into Apple Stores, unhook a firewire cable from a display machine and hook it into their iPod, and download the machines' expensive software onto their portable MP3 player.

This may be one of the small reasons Apple chose to have the new cable... now if one wants to steal in this fashion, they must smuggle one more item into the crime scene.

Or maybe the presence of this new connector is what helped them streamline the new iPods' form factors... who knows?

-Brian

chabig · Apr 30, 2003, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by xtal:
That's one of the points of the new iPods that I don't understand. Sure, making it a bit smaller is nice, but what about sacrificing more than 20% of the battery power?

Maybe a slightly smaller battery is one reason the new iPods are so thin. There are always tradeoffs.

icruise · Apr 30, 2003, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by escher:
An interesting piece about feature creep in the iPod posted on PDA Geek made me think that there is more to the new dock connector than meets the eye.

Escher

Tongue in cheek, I know, but the iPod would still be a terrible PDA even with some kind of text entry.

swsteckly · Apr 30, 2003, 11:47 PM

I think the Dock connector is cool. It provides an all-in-one port for many more functions than the single port on the original iPods provided. So, you'll have to get new accessories. Big deal. Belkin already has announced a car charger (shipping 2-3 weeks), and a bunch of other stuff. You can buy extra Dock-FireWire cables from apple for $19, and the power adapter is the same as the old ones.

The only thing i'll miss is my car charger, but I'll get a Belkin on when they are available.

The iTrip won't work. It relies on fitting to the FireWire port and headphone jack, so it won't work. I'm not sure about the iFM - I'm almost certain that apple changed the remote connector (which the iFM relies on) to the 'sony-style', rather than the miniplug with shield kind.

So, the answer is no, neither device will work.

I see 20GB iPods going for $250 on eBay. No way you're EVER going to get $325 for a 10GB.

xtal · May 1, 2003, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by chabig:
Maybe a slightly smaller battery is one reason the new iPods are so thin. There are always tradeoffs.

I agree, but is this tradeoff a wise one? The iPod was never a 'big' audio device, is sacrificing that much battery life worth it being a bit thinner?

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 1, 2003, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by escher:
I wonder why Apple didn't just use a FireWire plug at the bottom of the new iPods instead of the new docking connector. It's not like the new connector does anything that a FireWire plug couldn't do.

The same port also has USB 2.0. That is why.

prutz11 · May 1, 2003, 01:36 PM

The feature always missing from my 5 gig was audio recording... you know... plug a mic in and record that meeting or whatever... We know that the older ipods actually had the hardware that would allow them to encode audio if apple had made the software to support it... I wonder if the new ipods will also have that ability.
Who is going to be the first to rip their new ipod apart and post the pictures?

I am hoping that with all those new connectors there is a mic in our future.

will

chabig · May 1, 2003, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by xtal:
I agree, but is this tradeoff a wise one? The iPod was never a 'big' audio device, is sacrificing that much battery life worth it being a bit thinner?

That's a good question. I had a 5GB iPod, then a 20GB iPod. I think I will like the thinner size. We'll have to see about the battery.

zjokke · May 1, 2003, 04:55 PM

If anyone has read de specs, you'd see the battery has gone from 1200mAh to 630mAh, that's almost half the capacity. And it's no lithium polymer anymore but a lithium ion, which isn't as good (all cellphones are moving to lithium polymer because of the weight, size and better capacity and lifetime!). I just read the article anounced by macnn (http://ptech.wsj.com/ptech.html) which states a test provided only 7.5 hours of playtime with the new battery (formal test was 12h). Probably Apple had to do some engineering to even get 7.5h out of 'half' a battery. We'll probably have to wait until next week to know about the battery.

Busemann · May 1, 2003, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
we are talking about CHARGING!

Thats stealing power

Helvetica Neue · May 1, 2003, 08:00 PM

Somehow I fail to see how the new models are an improvement.

Fair enough, they have playlists on the go and are a bit slimmer, but less battery and worse connectivity isn't worth the trade off, or trade up..

Busemann · May 1, 2003, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by Helvetica Neue:
...worse connectivity isn't worth the trade off, or trade up..

I can't see how firewire 400 + USB 2 + USB + dock w/audio and power in the same port is worse connectivety...