[itai195]

It seems most people posting here aren't in the market for an mp3 player at all, let alone one that costs $400.

Lets do some price comparisons. Hey, who likes Sony? Their top of the line mp3 player costs $300 and has 64MB of storage. Oh, it's also USB and forces you to convert all your songs into atrac before transferring them to the player. Sounds like iPod has that beat, no?

How about Creative Labs? Sure, you can get the 6GB jukebox for $250... It's also much slower, much larger, and much heavier than the iPod. Also no rechargeable batteries and a shorter battery life. Lets not even mention all the interface problems it's purported to have.

Bottom line is it seems the iPod is a very competitive mp3 player at a pretty competitive price. It's not going to sell more Macs until the price comes down at least $100 but as far as mp3 players go it's a good product.

Apple is doing the right thing by making it mac only. For years, all we heard was: "Can you do this with your mac? Can you do that with your mac?" It's time that we say: "Can you do this with your PC?" That's what Apple is doing by releasing all this stuff that is mac only. I hope that they don't ever make it for PCs. Sure they might lose some potential customers but they will gain some by having all these advantages over PCs. There won't be one thing that does it but a combination of things that are mac only and supremely kickass will start. Remember, this is the first in a line of products.

Now, they f'ed up royally with the price again. It might be another cube problem. Although, I'm thinking about picking one up for 2 reasons: I need a portable HD (Having 25% of my ibooks drive for mp3's is getting to be a problem) and it's small with no need for extra cables, making it ideal for an external hard drive solution. Add to it that it's an mp3 player as well and it's worth it for me. How much does a peerless drive cost? I haven't looked into small HDs but I'm sure they're not a whole lot cheaper.

Plus, I can use it with my car stereo (it's got an aux-in jack ) Now I really won't ever need a cd changer...

Uh, itai195, you're forgetting one big thing. Those other two MP3 players you just mentioned? Well, they work with PCs....iPod doesn't. So while the iPod is cooler, it ain't gonna sell to anyone that doesn't have a firewire-equipped Mac and deep pockets.

[GORDYmac]

Originally posted by itai195:
<STRONG>Isn't the idea to get people who don't own macs to want to buy one?</STRONG>

It's funny how that simple point misses some people, itai195 . True, an iPod, alone, won't make someone change their minds. However, the bigger picture shows an all-around solution that's getting more and more difficult to look away from. Look at Apple's home page, that's the big picture.

Furthermore, everyone is not (what is that euphemism?) 'financially distressed'. I don't think Apple ever, really, wanted to be the cheapest player in the game, just the best. And I really want the best, not necessarily the cheapest. This device, just like all of my other gadgets, will make my computing time more efficient in a few ways (quick file transfers, quicker MP3 uploads, quick recharging, etc.).

QUESTION: Since FireWire devices are capable of operation sans-PC's, what possibilities exist for this device, outside of what has been mentioned already?

[vvedge]

Lets compare shall we? http://www.mp3shopping.com/english/nomad_jukebox.htm

20 gigabyte capacity... $400... beat the crap out of the iPod?

Software:
Creative PlayCenter™ 2
SoundJam MP� (Limited version)

Battery life:
4 hours

Interface:
USB (all 12 mbps of good old USB)

LCD Display:
132x64 backlit

Size
5" x 5" x 1.5"

Weight
14 oz without batteries

Compare that to the iPod with only 5 gigs (good enough for most music collections... well, mines only 1.3 gigs )

Software:
iTunes (you know this wins hands down)

Battery life:
10 hours

Interface:
Firewire

LCD Display:
160x128 backlit

Size:
(2.43 by 4.02 by 0.78 inches; 6.5 ounces)

Weight:
6.5 ounces...

I think we have a winner...who needs 20 gigs anyway?

[VRL]

Actually, there are players that are more expensive/as expensive (Kanguru, Panasonic, Nomad 6GB). And from what I've seen, firewire is not that common with MP3 players - I'm glad to see Apple use it.

It also supports aiff and wav. The only reason to support wav, IMO, is there's a plan to offer it to windows users in the future.

It seconds as a miniature firewire drive. We own a small VST FW drive that cost us BIG bucks, but it's well worth it, esp. for laptop users on the go.

Frankly, I don't see why there's already so much harsh criticism here. Sounds like a nice product to me.

And for those who think MP3 is "yesterdays news", the firmware is upgradable. And, I know people who own CD's, convert music from them to MP3's, and then use a player while they run, work out at the gym, ride bicycle, ski, etc. Beats using a portable CD player or cassette player!

[SweetApples]

This device looks just fine *BUT* where is the breakthrough?
O.k. one can use it as a harddrive, but consider one connecting it to a MiniDV camcorder or just a stillcam and rip movies or pix onto it. Now, that would be cool! I think I�ll wait for the next rev. (iMovie & iPicture support, 40-60 Gig HD, Airport 2 compiant ect.) and then pay the 399 bucks for it.

Here is my complete list of features to be integrated in Rev.B:

• larger Harddisk (40-60 Gigs)
• Gigawire
• built in Microphone and Mic-Jack (using IT as a dictaphone)
• IR-Digital Jack (connect it to stereo amps)
• Airport 2 (streaming Radio & wireless file exchange)
• iMovie & iPicture support (for ripping movs & pix)
• Support to directly record (+ compress) from MiniDV & CD

Plus there should be another device for organising and controling IT. I�d call IT2 "iPad". But i�d even do it with the G5 PowerBook. Some day my friends... some day

It's way overpriced...
The 6GB models from Archos and Creative go for ~$220.
The 20GB models from Neo, Archos and Creative for ~$350

the 5GB from apple for ~400!??

[Elvin]

If a student is going off to College, sure you might get them to buy the new low-end iMac since it's cheap...but would they almost spend as much just for a MP3 player? Looks like Apple will need to be offering $100 off cupon when it gets closer to Christmas.

[JUnderwood]

"Ground Breaking." wtf!? That is not ground breaking. the thing ground breaking is the price and it is only breaking the how high is high limits. 399 for an iPod. and what kind of name is that. ohh well, it is the smallest mp3 player i have seen for that size of hdd so my it work out i think i will get one. I don't have an mp3 player. do you think Apple will make a car kit to sell with it?

[VRL]

Actually, there are players that are more expensive/as expensive (Kanguru, Panasonic, Nomad 6GB). And from what I've seen, firewire is not that common with MP3 players - I'm glad to see Apple use it.

It also supports aiff and wav. The only reason to support wav, IMO, is there's a plan to offer it to windows users in the future.

It seconds as a miniature firewire drive. We own a small VST FW drive that cost us BIG bucks, but it's well worth it, esp. for laptop users on the go.

Frankly, I don't see why there's already so much harsh criticism here. Sounds like a nice product to me.

And for those who think MP3 is "yesterdays news", the firmware is upgradable. And, I know people who own CD's, convert music from them to MP3's, and then use a player while they run, work out at the gym, ride bicycle, ski, etc. Beats using a portable CD player or cassette player!

[darcybaston]

In Canadian dollars, it's a $600+ device. (Ouch, can't buy. PS2 comes first at $100 less.) But I think there's more than meets the eye with the generalized iPod name. I think the interface is a softare component that can be updated via firewire, thus paving the way for future expansion and other uses for that 5 Gigs of space.

Of course, if there was a mysterious other 1/8" or 1/4" or RCA input on the thing, future expansion of the device would be eaiser...hmm, wonder if they'll make a gender changer thing for the firewire port?

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by Zoom:
<STRONG>

At least on this point I think you're wrong. College kids and probably high school kids are all over this stuff. I'm not in that age range (or even close ) and I'm totally into MP3s. There is a definite market for this. !</STRONG>

Well i think you are in the small minority.

What a bomb Apple has with this iPod . So bad that you will see the first price slash of it by January. I agree with the good points people have made about it: 5 gigs in 6.5 ounces! It can be used as external HD, nice and its formfactor is attractive But the big picture is that its just not something the market will support at $400.

There just aren't enough Mac users, much less ones with FW to sell enough of these to make it a good investment for Apple. A cross platform feature may have saved them on this one but they didn't get it out in time for Xmas. Yes, some college kids may want one but Apple just priced its self this holiday season into competition with PS2, GameCube, and X-box. Sure, they aren't MP3 players but a new toy is a new toy to kids and chances are most people will only get one of these with the economy being so great this year. And its not as easy to buy as walking over to BestBuy.... remember impulse shoppers.

For $400 you can distribute your cash better: Get a Rio Volt that can play MP3 cd's (thats about 250 songs and it supports file directories) as well as Windows Media files, and regular CDs with about 15 hrs of battery life... cost $130. Then if you want an external FW drive you get one under $200.

Apple just didn't think this one through. And while it may be cutting edge for its size and features its concept is NOT REVOLUTIONARY. Sales of this item will s*ck.

[Richard Clark]

An iPod is half the price of an iMac. And a quarter of the price of an ibook. The price is too high. Why can't Apple ever get the price right on things.

Many are comparing this to the now deceased cube.

I also don't see it bringing people over from windows.

What I am interested is if the the HD for iPod will work on a windows machine. Meaning, can it be formatted for windows and used???

Would be interesting. They needed to cross a bridge but instead burned the damn thing down again.

[Cap'n Homer]

It's a nice looking device, but $400 US (that's $600 to us Canadians), it's a bit much. A $100 US cheaper and I'd get one tomorrow! I'll wait for the price to (hopefully) drop after Christmas.

More evolutionary than revolutionary if you ask me, though the idea of also using it as an external FireWire disk is a nice feature.

[aaanorton]

Originally posted by &lt;ajprice&gt;:
<STRONG>Nice point, aaanorton. iPod doesn't seem like a pure mp3 player name, it sounds like it could be used to store and do other stuff. If it wasn't for the black and white LCD screen I'd say it could be used as an external storage for a digital camera, using the screen as an image preview. But then its firewire, not usb as with most of the new digicams. </STRONG>

I'm thinking the same about "iPod". What if this developed into a MP3 player/photo transporter and slide player/iMovie player. That would be cool. Plug it into a TV and watch an iMovie. Obviously this would require a port solution.
As far as digital cameras go for right now, what about Firewire card readers? It would be great if you could plug a reader in, drop in a card and have the images transfer over. I believe an IBM 1GB Microdrive goes for about $350. And these aren't even supported by all the cameras. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Cliff

[Thunderbird]

Originally posted by SweetApples:
<STRONG>
Here is my complete list of features to be integrated in Rev.B:[list] [*]Gigawire</STRONG>

Last time I checked, Gigawire didn't exist yet.

[GORDYmac]

Overpriced, huh?
http://www.vsttech.com/Products/Stor...rives/FWFL.asp

[cteselle]

Originally posted by Zoom:
<STRONG>Come on, folks, $400 for a microsized 5G FW drive??? That's right on target. And you get a beautiful design, amazing ease-of-use, lots of battery life, elegant display... folks, that price is perfect for what you're getting. Look at the other players on the market. You get 32-64MB of storage for $150-200. This this is about twice the cost for almost ten times the storage! Even the MP3/CD players aren't close.

They couldn't have gone much cheaper with this thing. It's NOT overpriced. Well, let's just say that for what it must cost them to make, this is a fair price. Whether or not people are willing to PAY for this has yet to be seen. Personally, I'm considering it - not just for the MP3 capability but for a portable 5G of storage.

I think this is just the first product. There will be more. I think the set-top thing is still possible.

Where did they get this microdrive? IBM's little drive only goes up to 1GB, right? Plus the FW chipset? Come on, people. $400 is a fair price.</STRONG>

hmm... Well if you are just going to use it for portable storage, LaCie has a disk a tad larger than the iPod, shock protection for about $350. Oh did I mention that it was a 30GB disk? Check the link:
http://www.lacie.com/products/produc...C60090278D3ED0

[SweetApples]

Originally posted by Thunderbird:
<STRONG>

Last time I checked, Gigawire didn't exist yet. </STRONG>

They should really manage to roll it out till iPod 2 sees light of day. I hope...

[schwa]

Well, my enthusiasm waxes and wanes by the minute, but right now it's waxing, so here are my thoughts on some points:

"It's Mac-only"- Yes, this limits its market, but fits in perfectly with Apple's "digital hub" strategy. I think we have to assume that this gadget will be the first of many. Will an iPod convert you to the Mac? No, but if Apple also came out with, say, an MP3/streaming audio stereo component, a TiVo-like appliance, and a cell phone that all automatically kept in sync with apps on your Mac, then yeah, I think it will.

"$399 is too high"- Maybe, but keep in mind that this is an *introductory* price. It's for early adopters. Expect it to come down (and/or have a significant storage/feature boost) after Christmas.

Personally, I think it's a little pricey for my own tastes, but it's a damn cool toy. Yeah, it won't hold my entire MP3 collection, but I don't need to carry my whole collection around with me. Automatic syncing is brilliant. The form factor is amazing- smaller than my Palm V! And the fact that it doubles as a portable FireWire drive is really great.

Kudos to Apple.

I won't bother to repeat the obvious flaws with this product that others have obviously pointed out. This product will clearly fail because of its extremely narrow appeal at its price.

However, I'm more concerned that this will discourage Apple altogether from making digital hub devices. For example, a larger, non-portable device of stereo component size with the remaining feature set would be worth $300 as it could be hooked up to stereo systems (and would appeal to adults). An apple PDA would be bought by many apple enthusiasts for $300.

We have to realize that Apple has to find a way to make these devices for a low price at a low volume because these devices are limited to a subset of Mac users. This is not an easy challenge and standardizing on components they have access to through the rest of their product line is one way to achieve this. Whatever quantity Apple ordered on the initial production run is likely all the iPods they'll ever sell. And perhaps that's the way these devices will go. A brief span of availability at low quantities.

Nobody seems to understand that part of the deal with the iPod is to increase the Mac marketshare. What if they had a deal where you could buy an iMac and get and iPod for $299 or $249. Or with any of the Macs for that matter. I have no problem paying $399 for an MP3 player/portable HD if the quality is there and integration is seamless. Who care's if it doesn't work with windows. This product is meant for Mac users and to help get people to come over to the Mac...

I believe the iPod uses the same hard drive used in SmartDisk newcoming Firefly removable hard drive. Typical notebook hard drive is too big for iPod.

I have no problem with the price; however I have the problem the synchronization method between iPod and iTune 2.0.

As a iBook 500 user with only limited 10G hard drive, I want to use iPod as my primary storage space for my tunes. Instead, iTune 2.0 downloads or syncs the sonys from my iBook 500.

Also, I am hoping iTune 2.0 can support multiple music libraries, instead of fixed-location one. So I can put all my songs in removable hard drive, and put only my favorite songs on my local hard drive. If I unplug my removable hard drive, I won't be able to find the music files currently unavailable.

Also one feature missing in iPod is the "lock" feature like most of MP3. I cannot find anything in photo which allows user from accidentally hit the buttons.

It will be nice if iPod comes with a decent leather case. Look like another after-market item for third party vendor.

My 2 cents.

[palmberg]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
<STRONG>There just aren't enough Mac users, much less ones with FW to sell enough of these to make it a good investment for Apple.</STRONG>

Go check out Apple's latest earnings announcement and take note of how many iBooks the company sold this last quarter (250,000).

According to the Apple Store, all the new iBooks have FireWire.

And that's just iBooks. I have an iMac DVSE that's a couple years old now, and it has FireWire. Hell, my Key Lime iBook SE has FireWire.

What's even more interesting than this whole iPod thing is the iPod commercial. What makes it interesting is what's not in it. The iBook is prominently featured, not the iMac. Could the new iMac be far behind?

[doctre]

Wow... I really wasn't expecting this much negative feedback to what I consider to be an awesome little device. Here is my take on the whole thing:

* $400. Maybe a little high but then the Rio 800 (384Mb version) still runs at $459 from sonicblue's website. Plus from what I understand the hard drive is a 1.8" drive thats only .2" thick. That in and of itself is probably where a lot of that $400 is coming from. Plus the Firewire controller and port add a bit, and of course you have to account a percentage of that to the Apple logo and name.

* 5Gig. Sure there are other devices that hold more. But how long does it take to transfer 20 Gigs of data over 12Meg USB? Also how many people actually have more than 5-6 gigs of mp3s, and listen to all of them? I'd be willing to bet the number of people that do is relatively small. So wouldn't that extra 9-10 gigs just be a waste?

Anyway I've placed my order. I'll enjoy it when I get it and I'm finally able to get rid of my 384meg Rio 800 (yay not having to switch songs in and out all the time).

[Technicolor]

I think it's pretty cool. Sure there are other products that have larger hard drives, support other media formats, have sound inputs etc, etc. But overall I think the iPod has a solid feature set and especially for it's size. There's nothing else out there with these features at this size (not that I know of anyway). As for the price...yeah, it's expensive but it's in the realm of affordability. All of us already knows that Apple charges premium prices for their products and this is clearly no exception. Not really a "breakthrough", but pretty darn cool.

Justin

[Max8319]

I agree with GORDYmac. the reason i buy mac is not cause of the price, but because of the ease of use, etc. I don't go for cheap things. I go for the best things.

However, I do realize that most people don't have this luxury, so this isn't good for them. $300 would be a really good price. it's just in the range for people to just go and splurge a little bit and get....i think apple will probably get a rebate set up for the christmas season (or should atleast!). $300 would be just right

in the end, if the can get a $300 or even $250 model out, then the iPod will probably survive for a while. and there are people out there (like me) who go for the best (or next to best) things and not necessarily the cheapest or best bang for the buck.

[cpac]

Originally posted by &lt;The business genius&gt;:
<STRONG>For example, a larger, non-portable device of stereo component size with the remaining feature set would be worth $300 as it could be hooked up to stereo systems (and would appeal to adults).
</STRONG>

I mentioned this once several posts back, and others have too.

YOU CAN HOOK YOUR IPOD UP TO YOUR STEREO AND/OR CAR STEREO.

Making a bigger version just to knock off $100 would be pointless. (especially since you have to move it over to your mac to put songs on it anyway).

cpac

[zhemgang]

Very Underwhelmed!

I expected more, much more.Is this really the center of the digital hub? I didn't expect an MP3 player. Still, it looks beautiful and is likely far more usable than the MP3 players that are out under $200. But this is $400!

I had hoped to see iPod do the following:

1. Be attachable to my home and car stereo.
2. Sit in an iPad Dock while connected to the stereo
3. The Dock includes a battery charger and an airport card.
4. Ability to download music via a network connected Mac to the iPod wirelessly.
5. Unplugable from the dock and attachable to my car stereo.

[cpac]

Originally posted by zhemgang:
<STRONG>Very Underwhelmed!

I had hoped to see iPod do the following:

1. Be attachable to my home and car stereo.
2. Sit in an iPad Dock while connected to the stereo
3. The Dock includes a battery charger and an airport card.
4. Ability to download music via a network connected Mac to the iPod wirelessly.
5. Unplugable from the dock and attachable to my car stereo.</STRONG>

1. It is
2. Why, so it looks prettier than just pugging it in?
3. Ok, so charger might be nice, but you need the Airport card 'cause it's too heavy to haul 6.5 oz. all the way from your mac to your stereo?
4. Sure, but why? THIS THING IS PORTABLE. how hard is it to put it in your pocket as you walk from room to room. I could see really wanting this if it could only hold 5 songs at a time, but 5GBs should hold you until you store up enough energy to carry 6.5 oz. into the other room.
5. Yep. Just buy one of those tape thingys and you've got this already.


cpac

[itai195]

Frankly comparing to the cube seems a little unfair. The cube was an overpriced computer -- for less money you could purchase a superior product quite easily.

Where are you going to find an mp3 player this small, with this many features and such seemless software integration for less than the iPod's price? Nobody has offered a viable alternative yet. Sure the Nomad is $150 less, but do some research about the Nomad and you'll find that it's a pretty poor product.

The price isn't unfair just because it's more than you want to pay for an mp3 player. It just means that the iPod is more of an mp3 player than you're willing to pay for... This is just an introductory price. $400 is for early adopters and yes, at that price the market for the device is limited. Pretty soon the price will most likely be lowered and deals will be offered (as an above poster suggested) to get a discounted price if you buy it with a Mac, for example. The idea is to add value to the Mac platform, which the iPod does. The best mp3 player on the market is now a Mac only device. At the very least it further solidifies the perception of the Mac as a digital hub.

The problem with this device is simple:

Portable MP3 players are all the rage with exactly the market this device prices-out: the younger (ie: college-aged) generation.

The dual functionality as a firewire HD is cool, but you're not buying it b/c it's a hard drive, you're buying it b/c it will play your digital audio files.

If you ask me the best bang-for-the-buck right now is in 800MB, paper-thin, $.25/pop CDs and the exploding market of car, home stereo, and portable CD players that are only just beginning to explode into the market.

Example: for the price of one iPod i could be listening to 400CDs x 800MB = 320GB worth of MP3 CD digital music. And unlike iPod, i could be certain that my MP3 disks would be readable on ANY computer platform, playable in ANY MP3 car stereo deck, and usable in a ever-growing number of home stereos and portable CD players. After only 3 months of use i assure you, there's nothing quite like popping in a MP3 CD with 10 hours of music while the guy in the next to you fumbles around to keep his $400 dinky silicon card deck MP3 player and Radio Shack cassette deck audio adaptor from sliding off the passenger seat or knocking over his Dunkin Donuts coffee cup.

I hate to say it, but Apple arrived late to the MP3/CDRW party and they still have a lot more to learn about the market. Buying out the best audio player on the market (SJ) and shipping CDRW drives is only the beginning. I mean what the heck... if you're going to rave about how easy it is to burn CDs on your platform, why not exploit the cheapest optical media available to distribute those MP3s?


Sometimes Apple really confuses me...

Speed

Originally posted by &lt;JBC&gt;:
<STRONG>I believe the iPod uses the same hard drive used in SmartDisk newcoming Firefly removable hard drive. Typical notebook hard drive is too big for iPod.

I have no problem with the price; however I have the problem the synchronization method between iPod and iTune 2.0.

As a iBook 500 user with only limited 10G hard drive, I want to use iPod as my primary storage space for my tunes. Instead, iTune 2.0 downloads or syncs the sonys from my iBook 500.

Also, I am hoping iTune 2.0 can support multiple music libraries, instead of fixed-location one. So I can put all my songs in removable hard drive, and put only my favorite songs on my local hard drive. If I unplug my removable hard drive, I won't be able to find the music files currently unavailable.

Also one feature missing in iPod is the "lock" feature like most of MP3. I cannot find anything in photo which allows user from accidentally hit the buttons.

It will be nice if iPod comes with a decent leather case. Look like another after-market item for third party vendor.

My 2 cents.</STRONG>

Keep in mind that auto-syncing is an option, and is not required. I'm guessing you can just store mp3s on the iPod and not have to keep them all on your CPU as well.

[itai195]

Originally posted by zhemgang:
<STRONG>
5. Unplugable from the dock and attachable to my car stereo.</STRONG>

Assuming you have a CD player in your car stereo.... Ok, so you want Apple to create a feature that nobody else has been able to do oh, since the advent of car CD players? Lets be reasonable. If you have a tape deck, get a tape adapter. Alternatively, get a stereo with a line input. Otherwise, no portable audio device in existence has the feature you're asking for.

[darcybaston]

Don't you love hearing people driving around with their mp3 supplied thumping shapes of metal on wheels coming and going like fleeting consumers shouting, "look at me! look at me! look at me!"?

I love 3:00am.

[zilmer]

Originally posted by doctre:
<STRONG>Wow... I really wasn't expecting this much negative feedback to what I consider to be an awesome little device. Here is my take on the whole thing:</STRONG>

You are damn right! And I will get myself one as well. It's a very decent thingie and we should all be making money (in order to buy one) instead of predicting Apple's failure here...

[Max8319]

apple should release a PC compatible one.....it's too limiting right now.....firewire doesn't limit it.....more and more PCs have firewire....no big

all they need to do is have somewhat limited support for PCs.....be able to move files from PCs to the iPod. then, this gives a chance for people to see how easy and good macs are and then maybe they'll look harder at getting a mac the next time they get a computer.....

basically, add some support for PCs so apple doesn't get stuck trying to sell these to the small percent of people who use macs....

and try to lower the price to $300 or atleast introduce a lower spec model at around $250

[crystalthunder]

I have an Awia CDC-MP32 car cd player with a line in on the face plate. I use it to connect my RIO 500 and listen to that through the car and it works great. If you really want to connect any MP3 device like the iPod, this is the best way to go. Any deck from Awia has a face plate line in.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by palmberg:
<STRONG>

Go check out Apple's latest earnings announcement and take note of how many iBooks the company sold this last quarter (250,000).

According to the Apple Store, all the new iBooks have FireWire.

And that's just iBooks. I have an iMac DVSE that's a couple years old now, and it has FireWire. Hell, my Key Lime iBook SE has FireWire.</STRONG>

Yeah, that's true but by pointing this out you are assuming that most of the people who are using Macs WANT to carry 5 gigs of anything around. I am denying this product is cool and I kind of want one, but it hasn't won me over. Its too expensive and not practical. There are too many substitutes for the iPod and they all compete for a person's money. I'll break it down how I see it:

Kids (6-18) who have Macs will be highly marketed to this holiday season by Sony, Nintendo, and MS. So kids who may want an iPod will also want one of those new video game systems too. And since these individuals rely on the most part on parents the chances are the moms and dads will go get the video game thing since they understand it (plus they can get it at the mall) and if they have more than one child the item can be shared by all. Plus not many parents will buy one child two $500 dollar items for Xmas. Top that off by the fact that kids don't know 1000 songs they like, a music device that can hold 50 songs is more than adequate for them since its all they listen too over and over on a regular basis anyway.

Young adults 19-27. For the most part have limited funds. As people pointed out this thing is 1/2 the price of an iMac and 1/3 of an iBook. So I assume many will hold out for the larger smarter investment of a new computer. Plus many of these people have already figured out how to wire their MP3 collection to their stereo. As for portable storage, who doesn't own a CDr? If you go for the technology of the iPod chances are you can burn your own Cds already. That there is the reason for the popularity of CDRs: its cheap and easy for the majority of people who don't want/need to invest further. And the video game thing applies here too because many of the males this age aren't above owning a PS2, myself included.

Then the others: well they are either parents and have to buy their kids something like this or they are single and can afford one of these. Well, again there are many substitutes and since items like these have been out on the market for a while many people who are tech addicts will not see the point in getting the newest one yet since it offers little in addition to what they own.

Some die hard mac people will get it. So will others with the money to throw around. But how many of these iPods can be sold as they stand now, without a rebate or discount or Apple making some sort of BIGGER plan for the iPod that they haven't announced? You are looking at a very small market share. Again I will reiterate the point many have made. Cool, yes. Attractive buy, no.

This will fall far short of that quarter million people you quoted (which you ignored included edu purchases that don't count as individual consumers). Apple better have invested very little into making the iPod.

[TC]

Has anyone else tried the demo of the interface on apple�s site?

Lots of people have mentioned that you can connect it to your hifi/car with the right cable, but I can�t see any way to get it to give you line out. They should have given you a line out connector which bypasses their amplifier, this gives you better quality out, consistent levels out and could save battery life by turning off the onboard amp. You get this sort of thing on cheap sony discmans.

I agree about the other missing feature being is a hold button, this could be implemented later using a menu option since the iPod can be firmware upgraded.

For $400 there should be a remote on the earphone cord. If you take this puppy jogging there is no way you would want to get sweat all over it. Should have included a simple track up/down, volume up/down remote.

Finally which part of this is supposed to be groundbreaking? The fact they used a firewire interface instead of USB? For me groundbreaking would mean a completely new type of device, not just an improved version of what already exists.

Originally posted by &lt;Thinker&gt;:
<STRONG>

Keep in mind that auto-syncing is an option, and is not required. I'm guessing you can just store mp3s on the iPod and not have to keep them all on your CPU as well.</STRONG>

I understand this. However, if I keep the tunes only on iPod, how can I create playlists in iTune 2.0, and have them transferred to iPod and use them in iPod. According to Apple website, auto-syncing will remove the files from iPod which are not in the current iTunes playlists (See Sync with iTunes section in Apple website).

I yet to see and play with the functions in person to see how it fits to my needs.

[fisherKing]

i want an iBook because it's small & easy to carry around.
i could then get an iPod, because THAT's small, easy to carry around.

or i could wait for iPod 2, which is smaller, and interfaces directly (& only, of course), with the iPod itself...

but is smaller.


anyway, the iPod looks nice.
maybe if it were $200, 250...

[Zoom]

Originally posted by mithral:
<STRONG>

Actually, you CAN. At least with your home stereo.
</STRONG>

Yes, yes, of course. And sure, I'll bet a car cassette adapter would probably work, too. But I'm looking for something more elegant. I could make this work with just about anything since it has a standard stereo output jack. But I don't really foresee sitting this thing on top of my stereo where I can't read the display and I can't easily keep it plugged in (unless I buy a spare AC adapter that I can leave there). Same with the car. I don't want this thing sitting on my car seat with a cable attaching it via a cassette adapter to my car stereo and some funky 12 volt DC/AC converter and a FW/AC adapter.... yuck!

I want a cradle for this thing, like a PDA. I want to be able to just sit this baby in a dedicated, form-fit cradle that sits it up nice and pretty so I can see the display and work the controls, plus keeps it charged and sucks out the stereo sound with a simple, single jack.

For the car, this would sorta be like a cell phone "hands free" kit that either jacks into the back of the main deck (perhaps posing as a CD changer) or uses the RF frequency thing to play on a certain radio channel.

Honestly, what I really want is a home MP3 jukebox full-size component with a FW or Ethernet port and an in-dash car MP3 jukebox with AirPort.

But finding elegant ways to get this iPod jacked in to my home entertainment system or my car system would suffice.

[Jerommeke]

this sounds to me like bringing out only a top model at top price

please apple;
what about:

1 GB - $149
2 GB - $219
5 GB - $399

and for the rest same specs

i guess this will be another failure otherwise

[chicken_tastes_good]

Is this Digital Hub idea really that hard for people to grasp? &lt;/condescension&gt;

Your MAC is the digital hub! NOTHING else is the digital hub. All other peripheral digital devices interact with the HUB. There is no way this device could have been a set top "hub" tying your computer to your stereo/tv/life/wife/car/neighbor/pda/DV Camera/Digital Camera/internet. That is the role of the Computer itself (granted all that does not happen yet on a Mac, perhaps in the future).

The Airport Bass Station (yea, even the software version) is a wireless ethernet hub. It has no other use than that - it physically connects Macs and PCs together. It does not connect your PDA to your Scanner. Nor does it connect your Stereo to your toaster so you can here FM 90.9 out the toaster.

Perhaps wireless mp3 streaming will come down the pipe one time, but who amongst us, other than being tantalized with the novelty of it all, took time to think of how it would realistically work? How do you control the songs - run back to the Mac every time the playlist ends? What if you want to skip a song? Well then, we'd need a wireless remote that interfaces with the Mac at airport range? Not going to happen.

Oh, and you want to sync your playlists and archive wirelessly? Its a COOL idea, but GET REAL! Airport might be faster than USB but, try transferring 5 GB over airport (11 Mbps is theoretical, remember?) The agony of walking and using firewire is too much for you, right? Airport syncing would be "fancy" but firewire works, is simple, and is real.

I admit that the fantasy of some of the "out of this world" electronic desires we have is appealing. But please, do a reality check before you judge Apple against YOUR fantasies. This is a unique product (a bit expensive I agree) that fits completely within Apple's strategy. Interactivity with Windows would probably sell more iPods initially, but certainly would not guarantee the purchasers would follow up an initial iPod purchase with an iMac a year later just because they enjoyed the iPod experience. I believe the notion goes more like this:

Joe Schmoe (apologies to the real Joseph Schmoe) walks through the mall. He sees an Apple Store. It looks clean, crisp and cool. He goes in to look around. He sees some fancy looking Macs. He's never used one before and doesn't know what all the hype is about. He has a DV video camera and has edited video on his windows machine. He checks it out on the mac and yes, its smoother. He likes the look of OS X and it even has Office. He has an mp3 player but it's USB, bulky, requires an external AC adapter, has shorter battery life, a poor interface, and the iPod transfers files MUCH faster. It also stores tons more for its size. It interfaces seemlessly with a program that comes standard on EVERY Mac in the store. He has NOTHING to install. Its small, sounds good, and he likes it. He was in the market for a new computer but didn't know what to get. After seeing the benefits of Apple controlling the whole package (software & hardware & peripherals) he decides to take the plunge and gets a new Mac and an iPod. Take that 95% and subtract one user.

Its the cummulative benefit of having an Apple "system" that will make Joe a Mac user - not because a large storage, fast transfer, smallest package mp3 player works with windows.

sorry this was long, but it had been bottled up for too long.

[BobVB]

Originally posted by &lt;KeyLimePi&gt;:
<STRONG>Uh, itai195, you're forgetting one big thing. Those other two MP3 players you just mentioned? Well, they work with PCs....iPod doesn't. So while the iPod is cooler, it ain't gonna sell to anyone that doesn't have a firewire-equipped Mac and deep pockets.</STRONG>

they aren't out to sell these to the general PC public, they are a 'spiff' for Mac owners. The only thing that makes this worth $400 is the full sync with iTunes and its dual usage as a shirt-pocket 5 gig bus-powered external drive. It just won't be attractive to a PC user at $400 just as an portable music player.

Plus they are obviously looking for profit in this quarter, hence the upgrades to the portable line before the holidays. Their hope is to sell new portables to those looking for new Macs, and iPods to those who already have them. All items have to have decent profit margins to make it worth the trouble.

Now, once something new comes along that will be attractive in the desktop market, they can switch to them for profit and then lower the price and profit on this and any new 'spiff' items. Maybe put out a 10+ gig model and lower the price on the 5 gig one.

Still the only factor they mess up on here is either the 5 gigs or the $400. At 10 gig I think this would be a no brainer, but 5 at $400 makes people think too much for something that should be an impulse buy item.

[Zoom]

Originally posted by Thunderbird:
<STRONG>

They don't have to read our minds... They can ASK us what we want! If Apple wasn't so secretive, then perhaps they could do some market research before blindly introducing a new product with the hopes that somebody will buy it!
</STRONG>

I think this is an excellent point, and one that isn't often discussed. Apple's super-secret skunk works product development process lends itself to these marketing screw-ups. I'm not sure how you walk this line, really. If you do lots of market research, you tip your hand to your competitors and you could potentially lose all the profits from your cool idea. However, if you DON'T to market research and interact with your potential customers, you run the high possibility of totally missing the mark with the product and not only making no profit but looking stupid and out of touch.

How can you win? The iMac was an unquestionable success. The Cube could have been a success if they had just priced it better - like $799 (it's basically a headless iMac, right?). Jesus, it would have been a huge success at a "reality-based" price point. They priced a VW like a BWM.

If this iPod was $250, it would sell like crazy. It might not be profitable, however, but Apple could conceivably make no money on the device to gain Mac converts or sell services or software around it.

Anyway, the point here is that Apple has chosen what appears to be the ultra-arrogant position of knowing what we want and what we're willing to pay, and is willing to bet the farm on that. It makes you wonder where these ideas come from. Is it just Steve calling the shots on these projects?

Is 5 gig enough for OS X? If apple can put a process here.... Think about possiblities...