[ghporter]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

WHAT??? You think receiving one box-set for xmas 2 months ago should have been enough to push 'your' side to victory? You think that the world should drag out this stupid war for a few more years while you decide which of the two basically identical formats your next disc will be in? There was never any meaningful 'choice' or any need for or benefit to the 'war'. The whole competition was a stupid pointless waste of years and money and I say thank god it's over and I can't believe you wish you still had more time to decide which option suited you. Dang.

Ummmm...What? I said that I got a $400MSRP player for $85-I though that would indicate that Circuit City was taking action without having "official" word from Toshiba that they were pulling the plug. I also thought that it would have been very clear that I was bemoaning that the whole idea of having a bunch of wheeler-dealers driving the market selection process was bilge and crap; if BR is better than HD, fine-let the consumers decide, not some executive taking under the table money to make his decision. That's all. I don't have a "side" on this-I don't have ANYTHING HD except for this one box set and now a ludicrously low priced player for it.

[starman]

I was at Best Buy picking up Office 2008 and the guy ahead of me was bringing back his HD-DVD player. It failed because he bought it in MAY.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

... Did you actually read my post?

There's a reason I said "Be sure to go through all the categories and each page.", because there's going on 140~ titles and not every one is available on the first page.

The $19.95 titles at Amazon are not the same as the $12.20 titles at DeepDiscount. The ones that are $12.20 at DD are $14.95 at Amazon. The ones that are $18-something at DD are $19.95 at Amazon. There are even a few titles at DD that are more expensive than they are in the Amazon B2G1. All of the above makes the B2G1 a significantly better deal.

I also stated that I purchased the A20 from NewEgg yesterday in the same post. It also sold out this morning.



You say that as if it isn't what I said?

My apologies Lateralus. I guess I misread your original post. When I went to the link, the page indicated you could select "from the following list" so I incorrectly assumed that you could only pick from those movies.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I wouldn't even bet on too many Hybrid players for too much longer.

Electronista | Samsung to scale back HD DVD support

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

I was at Best Buy picking up Office 2008 and the guy ahead of me was bringing back his HD-DVD player. It failed because he bought it in MAY.

Now that's just stupid.

[Madrag]

it feels so good when you bet on the winning horse

I love this thread!

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Madrag 

it feels so good when you bet on the winning horse

I love this thread!

Ya same here. I'm glad I wasn't seduced by $200 players and then left over with 20 movies that cost me $30 each. When I have $600 in movies this early on I want to make sure that $200 I saved on the player isn't going to make my movies an inconvenience in the future.

[starman]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Now that's just stupid.

Oh, no dude. People try to find ways of getting their money back. When I was working for an art store, we had a guy come in EIGHT YEARS after buying a framed print to get us to replace it FOR FREE because it was in a flood in his basement. I refused. He told me that I was the one with the problem.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by Madrag 

it feels so good when you bet on the winning horse

I love this thread!

Same here. I was heavily considering going neutral in early January because I really wanted to add a few HD DVD exclusives to my library. But I decided to wait until after CES in case anything was announced. I suspected that Warner might make an announcement one way or another. Sure enough, Warner's announcement made me pause and I held off buying into HD DVD. I thought HD DVD might put up more of a fight through 2008, but I'm surprised Toshiba is calling it quits just barely a month after Warner's defection.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Ya same here. I'm glad I wasn't seduced by $200 players and then left over with 20 movies that cost me $30 each. When I have $600 in movies this early on I want to make sure that $200 I saved on the player isn't going to make my movies an inconvenience in the future.

And it feels crappy betting on the losing horse. NOt that I would consider my $130 investment too much of a loss, it still sucks.

I figured that HD DVD would lose, I just didn't think it would happen so fast. I figured I would need both players for a bit. Guess not.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I know a lot of the HD owners here think their investment is safe because there will be a heap of backwards compatible or hybrid players on the market in the future.

With Toshiba rumored to completely stop all HD hardware I don't see next to any hybrid players on the market after this year.

Better buy that $500 Hybrid now if you want to "save"

[jokell82]

Slashdot is running a poll relevant to this discussion:
Slashdot Poll

Looks like only 14% of respondents plan on getting a player this year, while 22% are betting on downloads. Biggest winner appears to be DVD.

[climber]

Engadget is reporting:

Despite Red's inability to make any real public statement, Japanese publication Nikkei has it that Toshiba president Atsutoshi Nishida will be announcing the final discontinuation of HD DVD tomorrow, as well as halted sales of hardware and media by March (as in days from now). Apparently Toshiba will pull its units from retail shelves, but has no intention to give burned early adopters any refunds (no kidding?); it sounds like the ceasefire will include the bare PC drives as well, so those hoping to keep using HD DVD as a personal data storage medium probably won't have much luck. Apparently the announcement will come alongside Toshiba's plans to build new semiconductor fabs, which we're sure they'll try to spin as an advancement that far overshadows the hill of beans (read: hundreds of millions) they've lost in the format war.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

With Toshiba rumored to completely stop all HD hardware I don't see next to any hybrid players on the market after this year.

Better buy that $500 Hybrid now if you want to "save"

On that note, Samsung is refocusing its efforts on Blu-ray only: Samsung expected to focus efforts on Blu-ray - Engadget.

They've already pulled their BD-UP5000 combo player, and I really wonder if they'll even bother releasing the BD-UP5500.

[climber]

The latest news from Japan indicates that HD-DVD hardware/software will not be available next month. That means no more movies on the format. I suppose they (Toshiba, Paramount, Universal, Etc.) figured it was financially best to pull the plug completely rather than phasing it out over the next couple of months. I wonder if they see some liability selling players to anyone now, facing a possible lawsuit from them later. Perhaps the margins are so poor it is better to scrap the hardware instead of selling them at such a low price and still have to give away several movies. As some have pointed out the players are selling for less than the cost of the movies.

If you have an extensive collection of movies on the format, I suppose it makes sense to hang onto the hardware. But it seems somewhat foolish to buy into it now.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Toshiba expected to announce death of HD DVD tomorrow, stop sales by March - Engadget HD

"Apparently Toshiba will pull its units from retail shelves, but has no intention to give burned early adopters any refunds (no kidding?); it sounds like the ceasefire will include the bare PC drives as well, so those hoping to keep using HD DVD as a personal data storage medium probably won't have much luck."

[climber]

I guess the echo is back!

Tuesday may come as soon as later Monday for some of us due to the time change. The Sun is rising right now for the last time for HD-DVD in Japan.

[starman]

It's dead, Jim

[climber]

Soon to be available on Blu-ray!

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by starman 

If I can pop in a disc and it plays, I don't give a rat's ass if it's HD-DVD, BR, Greenie, Purple Pixel Player, or whatever color of the rainbow they want to use.

Well, thanks to region coding, you can't just pop in a disc and it plays. Brillant!

Originally Posted by starman 

You all tend to forget what Sony has done in the past.

Uh…consistently opposed consumer rights? Is there some time they stood up for consumer rights that I'm forgetting?

Originally Posted by starman 

And no, I'm not a fanboy. I just want ONE FORMAT, but ragging on Sony for one issue seems juvenile and narrow-minded.

I'm not ragging on them for that one issue — it was an illustration to stave off the inevitable "Disrespectin' my rights? Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Willis?" There's also the fact that they keep making new "profiles" to screw over people who bought older players (except, of course, their own). There's also region coding, which alone is enough to make me want to hit every single person involved in the project. There's also the DRM. There's also the completely ridiculous prices. Yada yada yada. HD-DVD wasn't perfect, but it was better.

Originally Posted by icruise 

All the people saying that the death of HD-DVD will somehow allow Blu-ray to charge whatever it wants aren't thinking this through. As you point out, there will still be competition from different companies selling BR players.

This has always been the case. It still hasn't stopped them from consistently charging many, many times more than either of the competing formats. So forgive me if I don't believe it will suddenly start working miracles now that there is less at stake for these companies.

[climber]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

This has always been the case. It still hasn't stopped them from consistently charging many, many times more than either of the competing formats. So forgive me if I don't believe it will suddenly start working miracles now that there is less at stake for these companies.

Do you honestly expect Sony or Panasonic to start selling players for the clearance prices that Toshiba is right now? Get real! After you figure the cost of the free movies, it is literally like they are paying you to take one home.

Early adopters of any technology have had to face higher prices and the risk of obsolescence. This is nothing new. What cracks me up the most is the HD-DVD guy who spouts off about hardware prices but then owns a collection of hundreds of movies, or even better yet three or more players including a couple backups. Give me a break. Spend thousands on movies on a possibly dead format and whine about a few more bucks on the player.

[starman]

I'm sorry, but the DRM angle doesn't work. It didn't hurt regular DVDs, I don't remember a lot of people bitching about the fact that they can't play their sh*t from France on their American DVD players. I only bought three imports and only one of them was region coded (to which I got around it, it's not that hard).

As for Sony, let's see....revolutionized gaming (if it wasn't for Sony we'd still be using carts), pulled Nintendo's biggest third-party developer away (Square), gave us memory cards for the Playstation, the Walkman, helped give us good products for a decent price in the 80's. Oh, but there's that rootkit thing so let's all drop the good things and focus on the ONE BAD THING.

And I'd like to know why Sony gets kicked in the ass for "opposing consumer rights" (vs. protecting their own content??) and other studios like, you know, APPLE, doesn't.

Get over this anti-Sony bullsh*t. I'm not a Sony fanboy, I'm calling the shots as I see them.

[cjrivera]

Just to let any HD-DVDers know...
saw this on Best Buy's website.

Complete Matrix Trilogy [3 Discs / HD / Gift Set] - HD-DVD

Sounds like a great deal for those of you who might not have picked it up.
It almost makes me want to pick up a cheap HD-DVD player on sale and buy the set.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

I'm sorry, but the DRM angle doesn't work. It didn't hurt regular DVDs, I don't remember a lot of people bitching about the fact that they can't play their sh*t from France on their American DVD players. I only bought three imports and only one of them was region coded (to which I got around it, it's not that hard).

There will be one major difference between the DRM of DVDs and the new DRM we're seeing on Blu-Ray. DVDs could be easily played on any device that had a DVD player, especially computers. Blu-Ray, on the other hand, requires an HDCP compliant digital display. So even if you add a Blu-Ray drive to your PC, you still won't be able to watch those movies without additional software and hardware.

It also means most auto systems will be more expensive to upgrade to Blu-Ray (if they can at all). Now, HD in the car probably isn't on anyone's priority list right now, but if Blu-Ray wants to take over as the *sole* format hurdles like these will need to be tackled.

Originally Posted by starman 

As for Sony, let's see....revolutionized gaming (if it wasn't for Sony we'd still be using carts), pulled Nintendo's biggest third-party developer away (Square), gave us memory cards for the Playstation, the Walkman, helped give us good products for a decent price in the 80's. Oh, but there's that rootkit thing so let's all drop the good things and focus on the ONE BAD THING.

Sony didn't invent the CD for gaming. The first console company to do that was Sega. It didn't catch on, but it wasn't like Sony was trying out some brand new technology with the Playstation. And PC games had been on discs for years - it was the logical progression for the market. Memory cards were a good idea, but also a necessity with CDs that couldn't store gamesaves directly to them (carts had memory on them that could be written to).

And I'm not sure how pulling Square away from Nintendo makes them a revolutionary.

I don't necessarily think they're the big evil corporation that some people make them out to be, but they definitely have made some f*cked up decisions when it comes to DRM and consumer rights.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Something else interesting I thought about the other day. When DVD's first came out they offered no VHS/laserdisk compatibility at all and not many were bitching they had to replace their whole movie library.

On top of that the adoption of BR/HD have been faster than DVD partly because they do play your old DVD's and big TV's/home theatres have gotten cheaper.

Again I am pretty sure this is the last round of physical media but it is going to be 5-7 years before downloads are king.

[starman]

Again, downloads will never be "king" unless there's some way to transport them. eg: minivans, friend's houses, etc.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by starman 

Again, downloads will never be "king" unless there's some way to transport them. eg: minivans, friend's houses, etc.

Well I think it is too early to tell. 7 years ago nobody would have guessed the internet would be what it is today with the iPhone and user generated content + social networking.

We could all easily have 30 meg wimax to our 1TB iphones by then.

[starman]

The problem with that is when you're looking at mobile installations, you have to have wimax everywhere for it to work. Unless, I dunno, you download the whole thing while in a wimax area, but what if you're on the fringes? Do you wait to leave while Bambi downloads? It's so silly. I can't see the optical format dying until all this gets completely sorted out.

[Chuckit]

EDIT: This post is longer than it looked in the posting window. Just a warning. Sorry for the length.

Originally Posted by climber 

Do you honestly expect Sony or Panasonic to start selling players for the clearance prices that Toshiba is right now?

Did I say that or did you just choose the price point that would be most convenient for you to attack?

Originally Posted by starman 

I'm sorry, but the DRM angle doesn't work. It didn't hurt regular DVDs, I don't remember a lot of people bitching about the fact that they can't play their sh*t from France on their American DVD players.

I don't recall anybody complaining that a train hit their grandma, but that just means I don't talk to people whose grandmothers have gotten hit by trains. It doesn't mean it's OK to run down grandmothers. As it happens, I have bought DVDs that wouldn't play on my player. And it annoys me a lot. Yes, I got around it, but I shouldn't have to break the law to play a movie I bought! Sony had an opportunity to correct this just like HD-DVD did — and they rejected it. I've also had several friends and relatives in the same situation whom I had to help. It's not consumer-friendly.

Originally Posted by starman 

As for Sony, let's see....revolutionized gaming (if it wasn't for Sony we'd still be using carts)

Being the fourth (fifth? I don't recall exactly) system to use CDs is not actually that revolutionary.

Originally Posted by starman 

pulled Nintendo's biggest third-party developer away (Square)

Wait, is this supposed to be stuff that was good for the consumer or stuff that was good for Sony? (Incidentally, Square's games started sucking hardcore immediately after the Sony team-up. So that definitely wasn't good for me.)

Originally Posted by starman 

gave us memory cards for the Playstation

Really? I had to buy mine for a relatively high price considering it was basically a 1 MB memory chip.

Originally Posted by starman 

And I'd like to know why Sony gets kicked in the ass for "opposing consumer rights" (vs. protecting their own content??) and other studios like, you know, APPLE, doesn't.

Because Apple hasn't done any of this stuff? That would be the same reason I dislike Microsoft but not Doctors Without Borders.

Originally Posted by starman 

Get over this anti-Sony bullsh*t. I'm not a Sony fanboy, I'm calling the shots as I see them.

I don't like Sony, it's true, but that isn't what this is about for me. If Sony had made Blu-Ray a better format, I'd be behind it even though I don't like Sony. Similarly, I like the Xbox 360 even though I don't like Microsoft. But Sony basically took everything they could possibly do to piss me off and put it in Blu-Ray.

[starman]

Square's games started sucking? WHAT? Have you heard of a little game called Final Fantasy VII? It's, you know, considered the best game EVER CREATED (tied with Zelda: OoT).

Your posts reek of anti-Sony sentiment....as if that train you mentioned was built buy Sony, run by Sony, and actually did run over your grandmother.

How about just taking the product for WHAT IT IS?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I like sony. I think next to apple they have the best industrial design for consumer electronics. I also know the insides are also quality products for most of their products so I have no problem spending a bit more for a sony than some other brand.

The rootkit thing was a bit much but each division within sony has its own mind. Not to mention it didn't even effect us mac users.

[climber]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Did I say that or did you just choose the price point that would be most convenient for you to attack?

You said "consistently charging many, many times more". That seems to fit the current pricing situation much better than when Toshiba first released their players last year. Or perhaps you forgot that some of the HD-DVD players on clearance for <$100 used to sell for > $400.

I assumed from your statement that you consider Blu-ray to be overpriced by many, many, many, times. If that is not the case perhaps you should be more careful with what you type.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by starman 

Square's games started sucking? WHAT? Have you heard of a little game called Final Fantasy VII? It's, you know, considered the best game EVER CREATED (tied with Zelda: OoT).

Eh, I guess it's a matter of opinion. I loved Final Fantasy VI and was disappointed in Final Fantasy VII. And I don't think many people would deny that the next couple were just lame, as were the Mana and Chrono Trigger sequels.

Originally Posted by starman 

Your posts reek of anti-Sony sentiment....as if that train you mentioned was built buy Sony, run by Sony, and actually did run over your grandmother.

Like I said, I admit that I don't like Sony. But that isn't the reason I don't like Blu-Ray. I wish Sony had risen above its past like Microsoft did with the Xbox 360 — I like to support companies when they do good things, to encourage them to keep doing that sort of thing. But no, Sony made the worse format, and that's why I don't like Blu-Ray.

Originally Posted by starman 

How about just taking the product for WHAT IT IS?

"What it is" is an inferior format, with a lot of drawbacks that affect me personally, which won out over a superior format. That's exactly what I take it as.

Originally Posted by climber 

You said "consistently charging many, many times more". That seems to fit the current pricing situation much better than when Toshiba first released their players last year. Or perhaps you forgot that some of the HD-DVD players on clearance for <$100 used to sell for > $400.

I remember that. But I also remember that Blu-Ray players used to be upwards of a grand (the PS3 was considered a steal at only $700!).

[aristotles]

Chuckit, you seem to forget that the HD-A1 was also very expensive when it was introduced. Even Toshiba's Gen 3 players were supposed to be around 400 bucks initially but they slashed prices almost immediately in an attempt to offset the sales of new BD players that had entered the market.

The pricing of HD DVD players in the past year was artificially low to the point of being product dumping. You only need to read the financial news of how Toshiba was bleeding money from their HD DVD division to see it was true. You guys did not believe us when we told you that Toshiba was selling way below cost.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I remember that. But I also remember that Blu-Ray players used to be upwards of a grand (the PS3 was considered a steal at only $700!).

The PS3 was never $700. It debuted at $499 and $599.

[Chuckit]

I'm not talking about the past year. I can't think of any time when Blu-Ray was cheaper or even very close. Maybe there was one and it's slipped my mind, but I don't think so. A quick Google suggests that Blu-Ray is just now at the point where HD-DVD was when it was first introduced.

[starman]

Microsoft to release a BR player for the 360?

Why Microsoft will announce an Xbox Blu-ray player soon | The Digital Home - Don Reisinger's take on the tech closest to home - CNET Blogs

[climber]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I remember that. But I also remember that Blu-Ray players used to be upwards of a grand (the PS3 was considered a steal at only $700!).

Given some hindsight, the PS3 with a BD was a better deal at $700 than a HD-DVD player at $400. My guess is a lot of people wish they had spent the extra 300 bucks a year and a half ago.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by starman 

Microsoft to release a BR player for the 360?

Why Microsoft will announce an Xbox Blu-ray player soon | The Digital Home - Don Reisinger's take on the tech closest to home - CNET Blogs

Seems pretty obvious. Like, what, next is CNET going to report that Ubisoft probably intends to make war games in the future?

[starman]

No, the point is that MS said they weren't going to do that.

[climber]

Chuckit, What price would you buy a Blu-ray player? Less than 300, 200? I personally doubt that Sony or any of the other CE companies have been raking it in on the hardware the last year yet you seem clearly disappointed at the current prices.

[aristotles]

Funai will be bringing out a BD player for less than 200 dollars by the end of the year.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Something else interesting I thought about the other day. When DVD's first came out they offered no VHS/laserdisk compatibility at all and not many were bitching they had to replace their whole movie library.

On top of that the adoption of BR/HD have been faster than DVD partly because they do play your old DVD's and big TV's/home theatres have gotten cheaper.

Again I am pretty sure this is the last round of physical media but it is going to be 5-7 years before downloads are king.

People didn't have a library of movies before DVD. It is a fairly new phenomenon.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

No, the point is that MS said they weren't going to do that.

Actually MS has said all along that if Blu-Ray were to win they'd come out with a standalone for it.

[climber]

The big advantage of either HD format is that the old media (DVD) is still very much usable. That is they do not have to upgrade. The newer HD players will work just fine. As pointed out that was not the case for those of us who owned laserdisc's or VHS. I think by the end of this year most disk players in the stores will be Blu-Ray. The only thing the consumer has to be concerned with is if they have a HD connection on their TV. With the current adoption rate of HD-TV's, I do not see that as a major problem.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

People didn't have a library of movies before DVD. It is a fairly new phenomenon.

You apparently don't know the people I do. People with THOUSANDS of VHS (and Beta) tapes, with collections that started as soon as a home tape player was affordable (with a bunch of employee discounts). Yes, before DVD people DID have large movie libraries. Much like people had huge music collections before CDs showed up...

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

You apparently don't know the people I do. People with THOUSANDS of VHS (and Beta) tapes, with collections that started as soon as a home tape player was affordable (with a bunch of employee discounts). Yes, before DVD people DID have large movie libraries. Much like people had huge music collections before CDs showed up...

There was a small group of people who did. But the majority of people did not. Not everyone had employee discounts.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

People didn't have a library of movies before DVD. It is a fairly new phenomenon.

How old are you?

[icruise]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

People didn't have a library of movies before DVD. It is a fairly new phenomenon.

Hardly. There were of course the videophiles who had laserdisc collections, but even normal people had collections of video tapes. I would agree that it has certainly become more common since the introduction of DVD, and the size of people's collections has increased, but it's by no means a new phenomenon.

[climber]

The death rattle will stop in a few hours now. Toshiba announcement at 5:00pm Tokyo time. I think that calculates to midnight tonight pacific time.

Also of note, some HD-DVD titles that were announced and planned have been and will be canceled.