[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Eug 

540p actually.


Is it definitely a part of the XP kernel, or can it be in the realm of video drivers alone? I never did quite understand this. If XP must support it inherently in the kernel, at what point was HDCP support added? Was it added in say SP1 or was it always present in XP?

It's present in XP as of SP2. It's also in Vista.

[Eug]

The Toshiba HD-A3 is now $99.99 CAD at Future Shop and London Drugs in Canada.

Apparently, they're still honouring the 5 free movie deal too (and I think it has 2 more free movies in the box too). Considering it's a good DVD upscaler, that's a killer deal, even for a dead format.

[Chongo]

All Hollywood studios now lined up behind Blu-Ray - Yahoo! News

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The Toshiba HD-A3 is now $99.99 CAD at Future Shop and London Drugs in Canada.

Apparently, they're still honouring the 5 free movie deal too (and I think it has 2 more free movies in the box too). Considering it's a good DVD upscaler, that's a killer deal, even for a dead format.

Uh... that free movie deal is not worth the paper it is printed on. People were already having to wait months to get their discs before all of the news and some never received theirs. I doubt Toshiba will continue to honour new requests at this point.

The free five disc offer is not connected with any retailer but rather Toshiba Canada.

With all majors now supporting Blu-ray, I don't see the point of trying to get people to buy into a dead format. Even at 99 dollars, you are wasting your money at this point.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

All Hollywood studios now lined up behind Blu-Ray - Yahoo! News

I read about that last night on hollywoodreporter and I had been hearing about Paramount coming over for a few days now from someone with a sibling that works at Paramount.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by goMac 

According to sources Fox actually called Robbie Bach at Microsoft a few days before CES and told them that they were going HD-DVD.

We have yet to hear from either Robbie Bach or Fox on the issue so I would call it an unsubstantiated rumour AKA FUD.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Uh... that free movie deal is not worth the paper it is printed on. People were already having to wait months to get their discs before all of the news and some never received theirs. I doubt Toshiba will continue to honour new requests at this point.

The free five disc offer is not connected with any retailer but rather Toshiba Canada.

I got my 5 free movies no problem, and Toshiba told Future Shop that the deal is still being honoured. Legally they would be bound to do so anyway. (Actually, I got 9 free movies. 3 with the player, 5 more for the rebate, and then I got Transformers for free as part of a deal that showed up immediately after I bought the player.)

ie. You're just spreading FUD.

With all majors now supporting Blu-ray, I don't see the point of trying to get people to buy into a dead format. Even at 99 dollars, you are wasting your money at this point.

If you're in need of an upscaling player, not in the least. $99 is what upscaling DVD players cost already, and that's with no free movies. A $99 HD DVD player with 5 (or 7) free HD DVDs and good DVD upscaling is a no-brainer, if you're in need of a new player.

For those looking to buy at this price point, Blu-ray makes no sense at the moment. There are no Blu-ray players anywhere near this price range, and you don't get any free movies either.

So the choice for those looking for a new player is:

1) Buy an upscaling DVD player for $89, with no free moves.
2) Buy an HD DVD player for $99, with 7 free movies.
3) Buy a Blu-ray player for $399, with no free movies.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Poll: What Blu-ray player will you be picking up? - Engadget HD

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I'm sure all 3000 of those people will really be shifting the format war.

And don't tell me that it's a trend. The overall trend is that people aren't interested in Bluray players.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

We have yet to hear from either Robbie Bach or Fox on the issue so I would call it an unsubstantiated rumour AKA FUD.

Ah. So when rumors go around on a studio going Bluray only, those are credible. But when the rumor in any way involves something positive for HD-DVD, it's not. I see how it is.

[climber]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I

So the choice for those looking for a new player is:

1) Buy an upscaling DVD player for $89, with no free moves.
2) Buy an HD DVD player for $99, with 7 free movies.
3) Buy a Blu-ray player for $399, with no free movies.

Assuming the person has a high def TV, the blu-ray player makes a lot more sense than you suggest. Unless they just can not afford the extra dough. If they wait a year or two they might get that Blu-ray player for 200 bucks. That would mean total cost for your suggestion is 100 now and then 200 later. That makes purchasing the Blu-ray now only cost 100 more over the long term. For that they get to play all the current and upcoming HD disks for the next year or two.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by climber 

Assuming the person has a high def TV, the blu-ray player makes a lot more sense than you suggest. Unless they just can not afford the extra dough. If they wait a year or two they might get that Blu-ray player for 200 bucks. That would mean total cost for your suggestion is 100 now and then 200 later. That makes purchasing the Blu-ray now only cost 100 more over the long term. For that they get to play all the current and upcoming HD disks for the next year or two.

That's still $100 more, with no free movies, and only a single player that is Profile crippled (unless you get a PS3). And that's assuming you actually want a Blu-ray player in the first place.

It might make sense for some, but I was just responding to the post by someone claiming it makes no sense to buy a $99 HD DVD player that also upscales DVD well and comes with 7 free movies. I completely disagree. $99 for all that in Feb. 2008 is absolute bargain IMO. And even if they do decide to get a Blu-ray player next year, that means they'll have 2 players, one of which will make a nice DVD upscaler for that second TV.

I personally am waiting for that half-decent $200 Profile 1.1 player (and am not interested in the PS3). If it means waiting until the end of this year, or sometime next year, then so be it.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I'm sure all 3000 of those people will really be shifting the format war.

And don't tell me that it's a trend. The overall trend is that people aren't interested in Bluray players.

Wait... what format war? HD lost remember?

And you still in denial that people use PS3's as BR players eh?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Wait... what format war? HD lost remember?

And you still in denial that people use PS3's as BR players eh?

As always, Engadget is not a good source for facts.

Furthermore polls at gadget geek sites are of course going to be skewed towards a certain demographic. That said, the PS3 is a good value for what you get... if you're willing to spend $400 on a player.

The point though is most people aren't... and most people don't want a console for their primary player either. Engadget readers are not most people. The PS3 was Blu-ray's loss leader in the format war and continues to be Blu-rays best value entry-level machine. However as the hardware matures, you can be damn well sure the vast majority of Blu-ray players out there will NOT be the PS3. It will take a few years though, since it seems the CE manufacturers are milking the market as much as they can (as they should, for their bottomline). That's the sad part - price drops for Blu-ray are actually SLOWER than with DVD, even with the existence of the war. As a comparison: I bought a full fledged DVD player with component video within the first year of DVD's launch. It only cost $299, and it came with a free movie too.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Wait... what format war? HD lost remember?

Sorry, I meant the gaming war.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

And you still in denial that people use PS3's as BR players eh?

Hey, the statistics speak for themselves. If you can find a survey that counters that people do use the PS3 primarily for Bluray players, you're welcome to dig it up.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Ah. So when rumors go around on a studio going Bluray only, those are credible. But when the rumor in any way involves something positive for HD-DVD, it's not. I see how it is.

The difference is that the studios did go blu-ray while the opposite was not true.

Add to the fact that VPs at Fox (not some anonymous "source" did say that there were talks but no money exchanged hands. Fox was not interested in a payoff but rather getting HD DVD to improve the DRM on the HD DVD spec. Disney rumour was proven to be false by the blu-ray supporter that posed as the "source". Finally, Warner warned that they were considering going blu-ray exclusive back in November IIRC at the IFA in Europe when they showed up at the Blu-ray press conference touting sales numbers of 300 on blu-ray and snubbed the HD DVD press event.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Ah. So when rumors go around on a studio going Bluray only, those are credible. But when the rumor in any way involves something positive for HD-DVD, it's not. I see how it is.

Ah. So when there's a statistic showing something positive for BR, those are credible. But when the survey in any way involved something positive for the PS3, it's not. I see how it is.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Hey, the statistics speak for themselves. If you can find a survey that counters that people do use the PS3 primarily for Bluray players, you're welcome to dig it up.

Primarily? Who knows. The fact is plenty of them do.

Blu-Ray: Blu-ray Player Sales Up 600 Per Cent, According to UK Online Retailer

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

Ah. So when there's a statistic showing something positive for BR, those are credible. But when the survey in any way involved something positive for the PS3, it's not. I see how it is.

Heres a hint: A survey among people admittedly already interested in buying a Bluray player is a survey of a market segment and not the market at large.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Primarily? Who knows. The fact is plenty of them do.

Blu-Ray: Blu-ray Player Sales Up 600 Per Cent, According to UK Online Retailer

Ah, so your response is posting a link that has nothing to do with the PS3, nor never mentions the PS3.

Priceless.

[climber]

Originally Posted by Eug 

That's still $100 more, with no free movies, and only a single player that is Profile crippled (unless you get a PS3). And that's assuming you actually want a Blu-ray player in the first place.

Thanks for completing my point on the "profile" argument from the other thread. Your use of the word "crippled" is misleading at best and dangerously close to FUD. I say that becouse it perpetuates the myth that the current players will somehow become obsolete and unable to play future disks. As you know that is not true. Profiles only relate to some of the extras on some of the disks.

You are right about it costing more money. But $100 more is hardly a rip-off.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Heres a hint: A survey among people admittedly already interested in buying a Bluray player is a survey of a market segment and not the market at large.

No.
Sh*t.

Here's a hint: when you read the title and it asks "which Blu-Ray player will you be picking up?", chances are it's not a "market at large" poll.

Cue Captain Obvious.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by climber 

Thanks for completing my point on the "profile" argument from the other thread. Your use of the word "crippled" is misleading at best and dangerously close to FUD. I say that becouse it perpetuates the myth that the current players will somehow become obsolete and unable to play future disks. As you know that is not true. Profiles only relate to some of the extras on some of the disks.

You are right about it costing more money. But $100 more is hardly a rip-off.

As of 2008, Profile 1.0 players are obsolete.

The BDA itself states that ALL new players MUST be 1.1 or higher, because ALL new players MUST be able to play the 1.1 type extras on those discs. If a player released this year does not meet these criteria, then it cannot be sold as a fully compliant Blu-ray player.

That's the truth. If you don't like it, go complain to the BDA.

Sorry but as much as want to sugarcoat it, if the BDA really didn't think Profile 1.0 was obsolete, they wouldn't have made 1.1 mandatory. And I'm sure as hell glad they did.

Remember, even the Blu-ray guys admitted that 1.0 was a stop-gap measure, to fend off the HD DVD hordes. They released it because of time-to-market reasons.

BetaNews | Blu-ray: Early adopters knew what they were getting into

When BetaNews asked why these manufacturers rushed out players that were not fully capable and potentially buggy due to their BD-J implementation, the Blu-ray partner pointed blame across the room to HD DVD. "We should have waited another year to introduce Blu-ray to the public, but the format war changed the situation," he said. HD DVD was already coming and the BDA had no choice but to launch Blu-ray.

[climber]

Obsolete is your word not the BDA. Those "obsolete" players can still play the main feature, some of the extras and MORE movies than any HD-DVD player ever made, and all the new HD releases the second half this year.

[starman]

^^ what climber said. 1.0 players can still play the FEATURE.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

No.
Sh*t.

Wow. When I saw this in the Download/Bluray thread I thought it was classy, but now that you posted this a second time I think it's super classy.

Originally Posted by starman 

Here's a hint: when you read the title and it asks "which Blu-Ray player will you be picking up?", chances are it's not a "market at large" poll.

Cue Captain Obvious.

Here's the issue.

SWG says that PS3's are being bought mostly as Bluray players.

What the poll implies is something completely different, that most people who are buying Bluray players are buying PS3's. It doesn't imply at all that most people buying the PS3 are buying it for Bluray.

More specifically, it implies that the technical readers of Engadget who are buying Bluray players are buying the PS3.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

GoMac the fact is it doesn't matter what you think anymore of the PS3 or BR. Your format of choice lost. BR one fair and square. People use the PS3 as a BR player. Deal with it already.

Toshiba could go Blu-ray on laptops

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Primarily? Who knows. The fact is plenty of them do.

Blu-Ray: Blu-ray Player Sales Up 600 Per Cent, According to UK Online Retailer

They probably went from selling 1 a week to 6 a week.

[starman]

Considering the PS3 is the ONLY 2.0-compliant BR player, I'd challenge you on your assertion that people aren't buying a PS3 just to be a BR player.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by climber 

Obsolete is your word not the BDA. Those "obsolete" players can still play the main feature, some of the extras and MORE movies than any HD-DVD player ever made, and all the new HD releases the second half this year.

Yes, it's my word, describing the BDA's actions. They've EOL'd 1.0 completely because it can even handle basic functionality integral to "next-gen" optical media.

Personally I think it's a mistake to buy a 1.0 player in 2008 (unless you can get it on blow-out clearance). Apparently, so does the BDA, or they wouldn't have made 1.1 mandatory for all new players.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by starman 

Considering the PS3 is the ONLY 2.0-compliant BR player, I'd challenge you on your assertion that people aren't buying a PS3 just to be a BR player.

It makes a lot more sense than buying it as a video game system. (ZING!)

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Ah, so your response is posting a link that has nothing to do with the PS3, nor never mentions the PS3.

Priceless.

Sorry champ those are 2 unrelated replies. I an not going to do any googling to find you the stats you want for the following reasons.

1) HD-DVD lost bigtime. Shortest format war in history and it took a little over a month to make such a awesome format to get abandoned by the manufacturer and stores after the warner announcement. You were also wrong on just about every prediction you have ever made on this format war and other things.
2) you won't believe any pro BR news anyway and continue to spew more crap.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

Considering the PS3 is the ONLY 2.0-compliant BR player, I'd challenge you on your assertion that people aren't buying a PS3 just to be a BR player.

Again, that's not my assertion. My assertion is that people are not primarily buying the PS3 to be a Bluray player. I would agree that people who are buying Bluray players are probably buying the PS3. They are two separate statements.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

GoMac the fact is it doesn't matter what you think anymore of the PS3 or BR. Your format of choice lost. BR one fair and square. People use the PS3 as a BR player. Deal with it already.

I'll make you a deal. We can meet by the monkeybars at lunchtime and just settle it with a fight.

[climber]

I do not think 1.1 was needed. It was only put out there to better compete with HD-DVD. Or at least that is how I see it. PIP director commentary is worse than annoying. Why anyone would give a crap let alone pay extra for it is beyond me. And profile 2.0 is even more of a joke. Besides downloading firmware updates, I can not think of any reason I would want a player connected to the net. Fortunately there are other ways.

If I had my wish, the format war would have never occurred. I would take the disk space of Blu-ray and mix it with the simplicity of HD-DVD authoring over the slow buggy java stuff we have now (even if that means it is MS tech). Stick with profile 1.0 and instead give me full support of all the audio codecs from the start. Then I would have bought in right away.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

1) HD-DVD lost bigtime. Shortest format war in history and it took a little over a month to make such a awesome format to get abandoned by the manufacturer and stores after the warner announcement. You were also wrong on just about every prediction you have ever made on this format war and other things.

And the day of the Warner announcement I said that HD-DVD was dead. None of this is surprising to me.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

2) you won't believe any pro BR news anyway and continue to spew more crap.

No, I just don't believe that Bluray is as mass market as you think. It's not about Bluray vs. HD-DVD anymore, it's now about Bluray vs. DVD.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by climber 

If I had my wish, the format war would have never occurred. I would take the disk space of Blu-ray and mix it with the simplicity of HD-DVD authoring over the slow buggy java stuff we have now (even if that means it is MS tech).

Yep, this certainly would have been the best way to do things. I'm not entirely clear on why this isn't what happened when the two camps talked about merging. It seems like it would be a win for everybody.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Again, that's not my assertion. My assertion is that people are not primarily buying the PS3 to be a Bluray player.

Didn't I just say that it was you're assertion, and now you're correcting me on being correct?

[climber]

Originally Posted by starman 

Considering the PS3 is the ONLY 2.0-compliant BR player, I'd challenge you on your assertion that people aren't buying a PS3 just to be a BR player.

You are wasting your breath (or unnecessarily wearing out your fingers). He deals with absolutes. It is either all PS3's were purchased for Blu or none. Obvioulsly the reality is in the middle. Meaning more PS3 owners are using their machine to play disks than there are even HD-DVD owners (that is just a guess).

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

Didn't I just say that it was you're assertion, and now you're correcting me on being correct?

I still don't think you're understanding it. Do you really think a majority of people buying the PS3 are buying it because it's a Bluray player? Because the statistics disagree.

Yes, as you said, people interested in buying a Bluray player are likely buying the PS3 because it's 2.0 compatible. This is a lot different than a majority of PS3 sales being made because it's a Bluray player. Most people are buying the PS3 because it plays games, and as the statistics have shown, most people aren't even aware it's a Bluray player.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by starman 

Considering the PS3 is the ONLY 2.0-compliant BR player, I'd challenge you on your assertion that people aren't buying a PS3 just to be a BR player.

The PS3 is not 2.0 compliant, although it will eventually be. (Unless I'm mistaken.)

Originally Posted by climber 

I do not think 1.1 was needed. It was only put out there to better compete with HD-DVD. Or at least that is how I see it. PIP director commentary is worse than annoying. Why anyone would give a crap let alone pay extra for it is beyond me.

That's just it. PIP director commentary can be very annoying, but if you think that's all that PIP is good for, then you've completely missed the point of it.

For example, when Paramount releases Star Trek on Blu-ray, if you don't have a 1.1 player you won't be able to get this:

Star Trek PIP extras

That may not be important to everyone, but if I had a 1.0 player and couldn't play stuff like that, I'd be pissed.

[starman]

No, it's not YET, but right now it's the ONLY one that will be for sure. So if you buy a PS3 now, it's the ONLY player that's GUARANTEED to work when 2.0 is released.

If I were a consumer, I'd buy one based on that alone because everything else won't work with 2.0 extras when it's released.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I still don't think you're understanding it. Do you really think a majority of people buying the PS3 are buying it because it's a Bluray player? Because the statistics disagree.

I understand it perfectly. I also think you're wrong.

[Shaddim]

This war is over.

You grab their wallet and I'll get their tricorder.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

This war is over.

You grab their wallet and I'll get their tricorder.

<Tarkin>
This bickering is pointless...
</Tarkin>

[Eug]

Originally Posted by starman 

No, it's not YET, but right now it's the ONLY one that will be for sure. So if you buy a PS3 now, it's the ONLY player that's GUARANTEED to work when 2.0 is released.

If I were a consumer, I'd buy one based on that alone because everything else won't work with 2.0 extras when it's released.

Yeah, I'm thinking along those lines too, but there are a few issues.

1) I don't want a PS3. Period.
2) The PS3 costs too much for my tastes (as do all Blu-ray players at the moment).
3) I suspect that network connectivity is going to remain the ugly stepdaughter for extras on Blu-ray, since it is not mandatory and as I understand it, likely never will be.

Nonetheless I could see some people (particularly geeks like us) going for the PS3 for that reason alone.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yeah, I'm thinking along those lines too, but there are a few issues.

1) I don't want a PS3. Period.
2) The PS3 costs too much for my tastes (as do all Blu-ray players at the moment).
3) I suspect that network connectivity is going to remain the ugly stepdaughter for extras on Blu-ray, since it is not mandatory and as I understand it, likely never will be.

Nonetheless I could see some people (particularly geeks like us) going for the PS3 for that reason alone.

I think you arguments concerning network content (Profile 2.0 versus HD DVD online content) is moot now that Toshiba has given up and both Paramount and Universal are going blu-ray. Don't expect them to continue to host that online content for HD DVD past the end of the third quarter.

You say that you would not buy a PS3 but would you or did you buy the Xbox 360 and HD DVD add-on?

PS3's and other blu-ray players will periodically be offered in bundle deals with new HDTV's in the coming months. Also expect the prices to fall eventually with a natural curve. Now there can be no doubt that Toshiba was losing a lot of money on their hardware so the prices you are expecting should not have come until six months to a year from now if things has progressed naturally with one format. Early adopters usually expect to pay a bit more.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The PS3 is not 2.0 compliant, although it will eventually be. (Unless I'm mistaken.)



That's just it. PIP director commentary can be very annoying, but if you think that's all that PIP is good for, then you've completely missed the point of it.

For example, when Paramount releases Star Trek on Blu-ray, if you don't have a 1.1 player you won't be able to get this:

Star Trek PIP extras

That may not be important to everyone, but if I had a 1.0 player and couldn't play stuff like that, I'd be pissed.

I'm hoping the price will drop on season one so I can buy one

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Eug 

As of 2008, Profile 1.0 players are obsolete.

obsolete |ˌäbsəˈlēt|
adjective
1 no longer produced or used; out of date

Wrong. Profile 1.0 players are still being produced and will be in use for a long time. They play the movie of all upcoming BluRay discs just fine. The only thing you are missing is some extras you may or may not care about.

[climber]

Originally Posted by Eug 

For example, when Paramount releases Star Trek on Blu-ray, if you don't have a 1.1 player you won't be able to get this

That may not be important to everyone, but if I had a 1.0 player and couldn't play stuff like that, I'd be pissed.

Yuck! that is exactly what I was talking about. I would pay extra to NOT have that ability on my player Seriously that is a complete waste of time and technology. Just becouse you can do things, does not mean you should. This is a perfect example! And yes I am a star trek fan, especially TOS.

I think if the average joe knew that was all the fuss with profiles, they would would not give a crap. Especially given they could still have it the DVD way, with the extra audio track only.

[Oversoul]

I never understood people's fascination with PiP unless you're ADHD. It's distracting and largely gimmicky. I had an old tv that did PiP and I never used it. I understand the PiP implementation on HD DVD is different, but my opinion remains that it's distracting.