[mrtew]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

The 4 GB max RAM of laptops (and iMacs for that matter) is very limiting to heavy graphics workflow

There's some words I thought I'd never hear.
In fact I never dreamed of hearing the words "4 GB of RAM".
Let alone "limiting".
Let alone "very".

[SierraDragon]

Yup, the growing RAM and hard drive usages have been pretty amazing to watch. The idea that as I configure a new tower I find 1 TB drive maximums and 4 drive bays limiting is hard for me to wrap my head around. And I am bummed that 4-GB sized RAM DIMMs are so expensive that I must buy 2-GB sized DIMMs. On the camera side, a little over a year ago 8 GB Sandisk Extreme IV CF cards for my D2x cost $480 and I was worried that 8 GB might be too big. Now they cost $180 and I am considering 16 GB sized CF.

After watching the consistent trends since the 80s I have learned that it is of great value to be able to add RAM and hard drive capacity in the future. Ergo, no iMacs for heavy work.

-Allen Wicks

[Koralatov]

In about a year’s time (once I’ve saved up), I’m going to be replacing my ageing PC with either a 24" iMac and 23/24" second display, or a 15" MBP with a 23/24" display hooked up to it. Overall, I’m currently leaning toward the MBP—it’s more expensive, but I like the idea of taking my work with me when the need arises. I also really like the Mstand linked to by DCJ001, especially as it raises the laptop screen to the same height as an ACD.

[BoingoBongo]

SierraDragon,

You made some really compelling points in favor of the MBP. A Mac Pro would be awesome, but it's so far out of my budget that my decision is between a MBP and an iMac. I've never really considered the fact that iMacs basically use laptop components before.

[mrtew]

Yeah I've decided to replace my MBP with an iMac. It's basically the same computer with a way bigger screen for way less money.... you just have to leave it sit on the desk (where my MBP sits 99% of the time anyway). The iMac is even more beautiful now.

[EdipisReks]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon:[i

Desktop replacement[/i] of an iMac with a MBP is easy and superior in every way to an iMac.

that's a pretty darn subjective statement, and one which i heartily disagree with. i've come to realize that desktops are better desktops than laptops, and laptops are better laptops than desktops (that second one's pretty obvious ). let birds be birds and bears be bears. besides, once one plugs a bunch of hard drives into the laptop, it's kind of a pain, in my opinion, and makes one less likely to take it with one.

Originally Posted by SierraDragon

The 4 GB max RAM of laptops (and iMacs for that matter) is very limiting to heavy graphics workflows

i know a professional graphic designer (who does absolutely stunning work) who uses a Pismo with 512 MB of RAM, running OS 9 and some awfully old version of PhotoShop and Illustrator, and what not. why? because she loves her computer and and it's sufficient for her uses, which are, as a pro, very advanced.

[BoingoBongo]

That's awesome! It just goes to show how much more important the craftsman is than the tools.

I realized I haven't given much info into my current computing setup, so I'll do that now. I really appreciate all the great responses here so far!

I have an original 20" Intel iMac. It runs great, but I would like something with a bit more space and speed. Also, it's got this tiny "blemish" in the upper left corner of the screen that drives me crazy. Some people don't even notice it, but I can't see anything else when I look at my computer. As silly as it sounds, that's what first made me want to sell my iMac and get something else.

I also have a year old MacBook that I love, but it's a bit too limited for me. It somehow made it's way to me after my 90 year old grandfather bought it and decided he wanted a desktop instead. I didn't buy it, so that's why it's not spec'd to my preferences. I could pretty easily upgrade the hard drive and Ram, but not the combo drive.

So anyway, the MacBook made me realize how much I love the idea of a portable computer, and the iMac made me realize how much I love a desktop. The MB isn't powerful enough for me, and the iMac has a small defect that drives me crazy, and now I'm trying to get an "optimal setup" going.

(I'm fully aware that if this is my biggest problem, I'm doin' pretty good )

[mduell]

Sounds like BoingoBongo needs to sell both and buy a MBP.

[EdipisReks]

Originally Posted by BoingoBongo 

Also, it's got this tiny "blemish" in the upper left corner of the screen that drives me crazy. Some people don't even notice it, but I can't see anything else when I look at my computer.

i have a dead pixel and a couple dead sub-pixels (wasn't like that when i bought it, it developed after the warranty was up, as i didn't buy AppleCare) in the left hand corner of the screen on my MBP and while i've gotten used to it, it still sometimes bugs me.

[BoingoBongo]

Whatever these spots are, they're not huge, but they're also not tiny. I'm worried that they'll really lower any kind of resale value my computer has. These are the best pictures I could get from the most visible angle. They also show up a lot more on lighter colors. Interestingly, the spots on the left side have moved over the last year or so, but I don't know how to get rid of them.

[EdipisReks]

that would drive me crazy. 1.667 stuck pixels is about all i can stand. if they are moving, they might be air bubbles between the layers of the lcd...? have you tried gently massaging them with a cloth, trying to push them to the outside of the screen?

[BoingoBongo]

Yeah, I've definitely tried that. They were there for about 8 months as three separate dots, and then all of a sudden they merged into one and a fourth dot appeared.

[driven]

Air or moisture. (At least that's what it appears to me.)

Have you taken it to your local Apple Genius for an assessment?

[BoingoBongo]

The computer is out of warrantee and I don't have an Apple Store nearby, unfortunately.

I also think it's probably some kind of air or moisture. Now that I think about it, the whole thing began when I was living in a house that changed temperature drastically every day. Maybe that had something to do with it.

[driven]

It might of had something to do with it. Perhaps an authorized Apple repair center could help? (Just a thought).

I'm anal as heck and I know it would drive me nuts.

[klb5090]

i have a single stuck pixel that i cannot keep my eye off of. If i had spots like that i might very well go insane

[CharlesS]

The iMac in its current form is a fairly pointless machine - it's basically a laptop that's stuck to your desk. The only desktop components in it are the hard drive and the screen. Other than that you have:

- a laptop processor, in most configurations less powerful or equal to the MBP's

- a laptop GPU, less powerful than the MBP's

- laptop RAM, just like the MBP

- a laptop optical drive, more or less the same as the MBP's

- even the iMac's keyboard is a laptop keyboard these days.

The iMac used to have some advantages over the laptop models - for example, the rev. A and rev. B G5 models used to be very easy to open and swap out components such as the hard drive. However, for some reason I can't comprehend, Steve seems to think thinness is more important than anything else in a desktop machine, so such features got axed in order to make the iMac really thin, and now the thing's even harder than the MBP to replace components in. Oh, and the iMac manages to be less expandable than the MBP also, due to not having an ExpressCard slot. It also sticks you with a glossy screen, rather than giving you a choice as the MBP does. Finally, the MBP has that new multi-touch trackpad which I haven't had a chance to play with yet, but which might be useful. And, of course, it's portable.

As you can probably tell, I'd recommend you get a MBP rather than an iMac.

[EdipisReks]

once again, it's highly subjective, and i strongly disagree. i went from a MBP as desktop to replacement to an iMac, and there isn't any comparison, for me.

[0157988944]

I just sold my iMac, and moved to an MBP.

2 Drawbacks:
Hard Drive Space (Easily Remedied)
Screen Size (I'm getting a 24" External for when it is necessary.

Now I have a computer that is faster than my iMac, and will soon have more than twice as much scren space. The only place where it underperforms is the Hard Drive, which can be replaced.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

- a laptop processor, in most configurations less powerful or equal to the MBP's

The other way around. They both usually use the same CPUs but the iMac then has a BTO option for an XE edition of the CPU and the MBP doesn't.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Simon 

The other way around. They both usually use the same CPUs but the iMac then has a BTO option for an XE edition of the CPU and the MBP doesn't.

That's why I said in most configurations. You have to go with the very top of the line iMac to get a processor that's faster than the low-end MBP (and thus not slower than the rest of the MBP line), and even if you BTO it, you can only do it on the 24" model.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by EdipisReks 

...I know a professional graphic designer (who does absolutely stunning work) who uses a Pismo with 512 MB of RAM, running OS 9 and some awfully old version of PhotoShop and Illustrator, and what not. why? because she loves her computer and and it's sufficient for her uses, which are, as a pro, very advanced.

Sorry but that does not make sense to me. A Pismo, OS 9, old PS/Illy, 512 MB RAM is a ridiculous computer to use for professional work. I have been using PS since before the Pismo days and well remember that PS barely runs on a (circa 2000) Pismo; the slightest edit can take minutes to render.

If your friend is indeed a pro who does stunning work (which I do not doubt) she is wasting her time and talents by using grossly inadequate unprofessional tools. "Pro" means working for money, and it is pretty difficult to compete in the pro marketplace if your tools cause you to take hours to do what others do in a few minutes. No doubt your friend survives because of her great talent, but do not use that talent as some kind of a justification for inappropriate hardware.

-Allen Wicks

[EdipisReks]

yes indeed, if you don't have a Cray XMT you're obviously wasting your time.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

I just sold my iMac, and moved to an MBP.
2 Drawbacks:
Hard Drive Space (Easily Remedied)
Screen Size (I'm getting a 24" External for when it is necessary.
Now I have a computer that is faster than my iMac, and will soon have more than twice as much scren space. The only place where it underperforms is the Hard Drive, which can be replaced.

Saying a MBP is better than an iMac is kinda silly. It's about the same except it has a little tiny screen and costs a lot more and folds up. If you're wanting to carry your computer around there's no comparison. If you're not wanting to carry it around there's no comparison in the other direction. Comparing them is silly, especially if you're going to totally ignore price like you're doing.

[CharlesS]

If you want the ability to put an eSATA card in your machine, there's no comparison either. If you want to be able to use USB 3.0 when it comes out, there's no comparison. If you want to be future proof in general, there's no comparison, because the MBP has an expansion slot, and the iMac doesn't.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

That's why I said in most configurations. You have to go with the very top of the line iMac to get a processor that's faster than the low-end MBP (and thus not slower than the rest of the MBP line), and even if you BTO it, you can only do it on the 24" model.

Well not really. Just right now that is the case but this is simply because the MBP has already been updated and the iMac hasn't. In a few weeks when the iMac has been updated it will be back to normal. And that means the high-end iMac gets the same CPU as the high-end MBP. And beside that you will have the option to update the 24" iMac to a Merom XE. An option you don't get on any MBP.

[CharlesS]

In which case, if it happens - great, you'll be able to get a slightly faster laptop processor in the non-portable laptop (also known as the iMac) than in the portable one (assuming you pony up for the top-of-the-line model, I'm sure). That's better than the processor being slower than the one in the portable laptop, for sure, but still not compelling enough to make the iMac make sense to me. It's still a laptop processor with a laptop GPU, laptop RAM, and a laptop optical drive in a non-portable enclosure that's hard to do maintenance on.

[BoingoBongo]

The iMac has always been so appealing to me, thats' why this decision is so hard. But now that I realize it is essentially a non-portable laptop, the MBP is looking much better. Not to mention I can't stand glossy screens, and it's seeming less and less likely that they'll introduce a matte option.

[CharlesS]

The other thing about the MBP is that you can always hook up an external screen to it, and have a large screen just like the iMac (but with the option to get a matte if you prefer it). It's more expensive this way, but the thing is that when Apple introduces some new technology that you just have to have and you end up upgrading the MBP to a newer machine, you get to keep your old monitor and use it with the new machine. So it's buy-once, as opposed to the iMac where you're losing the old monitor when you replace the machine, causing you to re-buy the monitor every time.

I got screwed by buying an iMac G5 right before the Intel switch got announced. I'm going to be upgrading (to a MBP) much sooner than I expected when I bought the machine because of that, and the fact that I have to give up the existing monitor that I have because it's integrated is just a little extra sting. Typically the computer becomes obsolete much sooner than the monitor, which creates a problem when an expensive large monitor is inseparably joined to a machine (and a completely non-expandable one at that).

[BoingoBongo]

Yeah, I totally agree. Although in my case, the opposite is true, haha. The computer works fine, it's just the dang screen that has problems. It's pretty frustrating.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

If you want the ability to put an eSATA card in your machine, there's no comparison either. If you want to be able to use USB 3.0 when it comes out, there's no comparison. If you want to be future proof in general, there's no comparison, because the MBP has an expansion slot, and the iMac doesn't.

I've had three PowerBooks and a MBP and never found them to be future proof. In fact I find the first 24 inch iMac which came out at the same time as my MacBookPro17 and has almost identical specs to be much faster and smoother and bigger and brighter in every way for way less money.

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

The other thing about the MBP is that you can always hook up an external screen to it, and have a large screen just like the iMac (but with the option to get a matte if you prefer it). It's more expensive this way, but the thing is that when Apple introduces some new technology that you just have to have and you end up upgrading the MBP to a newer machine, you get to keep your old monitor and use it with the new machine. So it's buy-once, as opposed to the iMac where you're losing the old monitor when you replace the machine, causing you to re-buy the monitor every time.

Huh? I thought a MBP was future proof! And I believe I will be able to use my 24 inch iMac as an extra monitor when i get a new computer someday, don't you think. Especially since it looks almost like one. ScreenRecycler 1.14 software download - Mac OS X - VersionTracker

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Huh? I thought a MBP was future proof!

A computer that has an expansion port is obviously more future-proof than a computer that doesn't.

And I believe I will be able to use my 24 inch iMac as an extra monitor when i get a new computer someday, don't you think. Especially since it looks almost like one. ScreenRecycler 1.14 software download - Mac OS X - VersionTracker

Over the network? That is going to have poor performance compared to a directly connected monitor.

[Mojo]

I suggest going to Barefeats.com and reading what they have to say about VRAM above 128MB vs. cost-effectiveness of such an upgrade. I think that you might find yourself saving $450... And $450 is a nice budget for a 24" LCD monitor.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by EdipisReks 

yes indeed, if you don't have a Cray XMT you're obviously wasting your time.

Correct if you are a scientist trying to analyze planet-wide weather patterns in real time using a personal computer rather than a supercomputer of some sort you are wasting your time. Also correct is if you intend heavy graphics work in the pro milieu you are wasting your time using OS 9 and a Pismo with 512 MB RAM.

-Allen Wicks

[EdipisReks]

yes, she wastes her time supporting herself and making a good living. i'll let her know, so that she can go play in traffic instead, since she's wasting her time. is it fun being dogmatic?