[icruise]

I'm looking into the possibility of getting a cheap PC for playing games, but it's been a long time since I really looked into the technology that exists on the "other side" and its prices.

I'd like to be able to play Half-life 2 and Doom 3. I realize that you can spend a lot of money on gaming rigs, but is it possible to get a relatively inexpensive PC that can play these at reasonable resolutions/frame rates/detail levels? How much would it cost?

I might be interested in building my own PC, although given the choice I'd rather just get a pre-made PC and maybe add one or two components.

Any ideas or suggestions?

[CD Hanks]

Building your own computer is a cheaper route, but the effort it takes to get a bunch of parts built up into a working computer is sometimes negated by just paying a little more for a pre-built machine (for some people.)

If you want to go with the pre-made/warranty route, I suggest Dell.

Otherwise, newegg.com is by far the best place to buy all the parts necessary.

Keep in mind that HL2 is very flexible on hardware requirements. People have successfully played the game on fairly old hardware without any complaints. Doom 3, on the other hand, is extremely fussy about requiring high end hardware to get a playable game. So if you are bearing some kind of preference to one game over the other, please say so. That way this machine will be better suited to your needs.

However, if you do wish to play both games and have them look fantastic, I think you must let go of the idea of making this a "cheap" PC.

edit: Bottom line: How much do you want to spend?

[Shaddim]

I'd check out Anandtech's November Buyer's Guide.

http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=2282&p=2

Processor
AMD Athlon 64 2800+ 512K 1.8 GHz (754)
$127

Motherboard
Chaintech VNF-250 (754)
$73

Memory
1x512MB Mushkin Basic 2.5-4-4
$75

Video Card
Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB 256-bit
$196

Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda 80GB EIDE model 7200.7
$59

Optical Drive
NEC DVD+/-RW Drive Model 3500A
$72

Case and Power Supply
Athenatech A602 Black/Silver with 350W PSU
$62

Display
Samsung 793DF 17 Black/Silver CRT (1280x1024@75 Hz)
$139

Keyboard and Mouse
Logitech Optical Desktop Combo
$26

Bottom Line
$829


Now, there are some corners you can cut. One, if you don't need a DVD+/-R drive you can get a regular DVD reader and save about $40. Also, if you have a used monitor lying around (who doesn't? ) you can just use it. Also, you can save a little cash and get an ATI 9700 Pro video card instead of the 9800 Pro, saves about $40. If you make those changes, you can build a decent gaming rig for around $600 or less. Would be a great machine for the price, and you'd be able to play anything.

[bradoesch]

I just put together a gaming PC. All prices are in CAD, I'll convert to US at the end:

AMD Athlon 64 3000+ $239
ASUS A8V $200
Kingston 512MB PC3200 $150
GeForce FX 5700LE free from cousin

I used my old case, PSU, hard drives and optical drives. My old HDs are a huge bottleneck (older 5400 rpms drives) but this machine is used for web, SETI and gaming.

It works out to $500 USD not including the video card. I ran timedemo1 in Doom3 and scored 24 fps at 800x600 medium quality. Once I experiment with clocking the GeForce to the regular 5700 speeds I expect that score to improve.

[CD Hanks]

Originally posted by bradoesch:
GeForce FX 5700LE free from cousin

If I may interject here...

To the OP, avoid the 5x00 series of nVidia cards like the plague. If you're going to buy an nVidia card, go with anything from the 6800 series. Conversely, any ATI card with a model number above the 9500 series is adequate.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
If I may interject here...

To the OP, avoid the 5x00 series of nVidia cards like the plague. If you're going to buy an nVidia card, go with anything from the 6800 series. Conversely, any ATI card with a model number above the 9500 series is adequate.

To add to CD Hanks astute observation, the 6600GT seems to be a good cost-cutting choice too.

[d0ubled0wn]

I agree, Newegg is a pc builder's paradise.

I'm personally waiting for the Shuttle SB86i to hit the market. It's a beautiful design and should be a very quiet machine.

[CD Hanks]

Originally posted by d0ubled0wn:
I agree, Newegg is a pc builder's paradise.

I'm personally waiting for the Shuttle SB86i to hit the market. It's a beautiful design and should be a very quiet machine.

Oh yeah, Shuttle builds fantastic cases. I've got one here. The SN45G I believe it is. It was a barebones case that I put my own parts in.

I should take a picture of it, heh. I've stripped the case down to the metal frame, took out the original power supply (ran way too hot), mounted a bigger power supply on top of the frame, and have an Athlon XP in there with an 800Mhz overclock. By stripping the case down to it's most bare parts, the air flow has increased dramatically. Combine that with the different power supply, and I've got a machine that runs extremely cool.

Also looks like something out of a bad cyberpunk movie.

Anyway, that isn't to say that you'll have to do the crazy crap I did, in fact it ran just fine before I went apeshit taking it apart, but just to let you know what can be done.

[icruise]

Thanks for the replies so far. A bit more information about what I'm looking for, plus some questions:

I don't want to spend more than $1000, not including monitor, and if possible I'd like to spend less. Is it possible to play games like Doom 3, Half-life 2 and World of Warcraft well on a machine in this price range? I already have things like speakers and a DVD burner, so they aren't necessary. And I might just use my current cinema display as the monitor -- I assume that there are DVI switches that would allow this?

I think my main problem is that I no longer have a real sense of what is a good, fast CPU, or what is a good video card for gaming. So if you could give me a general idea of what kind of CPU and video card you would look out for in this price range, that would be helpful. For example, while there have been a number of interesting deals from Dell mentioned on some bargain websites recently, I can't really tell which of their models would be appropriate for my needs. If you were buying a somewhat inexpensive gaming machine from Dell, what would you choose?

The bottom line is that I want to be able to play some games that aren't available on the Mac (e.g. Doom 3, Half-life 2) and maybe play even those that have Mac versions better than my current Mac will allow (World of Warcraft). But I'd rather know ahead of time if my budget isn't reasonable for this, since I'd rather spend the money elsewhere (like maybe toward a G5) than be disappointed by the performance of the machine once I get it.

[CD Hanks]

Well, if you go down the Dell route, just avoid anything with Celeron in the name. Stick with a straight Pentium 4, and you can't go wrong. I looked at their site earlier, and I noticed it's rather hard to get a custom video card if you go with a low end machine that contains integrated video (bad). But if you decide to do this, I'm rather confident you can just buy an aftermarket card, disable or remove whatever is in there now, and dance all night.

Regarding your Cinema display, yes, it can function on a PC with the proper adapter, but I've heard people say it isn't terribly reliable. Again, if you go the Dell route, you'll undoubtedly get a CRT in the package that is decent and fits the bill.

Thinking it over, I really do think just ordering it from Dell is the best bet for someone like you. That isn't to presume anything about your intelligence or abilities, but it would seem like the simple and logical choice here.

Video Card Choices:
nVidia: 6600GT or 6800GT are both fine cards. The 6800GT can easily be overclocked to mimic the top of the line card with ease. (6800 Ultra I believe)
ATI: 9800Pro/9800XT/x800 are all fantastic choices.

Try and go for between 512MB and 1GB of RAM. A decent soundcard would be wise too. Soundblaster Audigy series cards aren't bad at all.

[d0ubled0wn]

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
Also looks like something out of a bad cyberpunk movie.

Pics please.

Thanks for the replies so far. A bit more information about what I'm looking for, plus some questions:

MacNStein pieced together a system above < $1000, it should be a fine gaming machine. I would swap the ATI 9800 with any Nvidia 6x00 card, which would be better for D3.

The most difficult part about building from scratch IMO is putting the mainboard into the case. Trying to put small screws into tiny holes is no fun. Matching up the wires to the power switch and LEDs is a major pain in the ass. If you don't like to get your hands dirty I'd get a barebones system like a Shuttle or Aopen, plus you'll get a very quiet and nice looking system.

Dell's look and feel cheap to me, we have them at work. I would avoid them. Plus I'd hate the idea of giving Michael Dell any of my hard earned money.

[Scifience]

I recently built a gaming PC using parts from Newegg.com (do you get the idea that they have a good reputation?). Mine cost $4000, so I'm sure you're not looking for that when you say "cheap." Don't order from Dell or Alienware. Dell's computers are crap, and Alienware is hugely overpriced. Build it yourself; it isn't that hard and will save you a lot of money.

First of all, when building a PC, consider what you will be using it for. In this case, gaming. Then, consider what components are most often stressed by games and make sure to get the best ones you can afford.

In the case of a gaming PC, you want a great video card, a good processor, and at least 1GB of RAM. The hard drive, CD/DVD burner, etc. aren't too important (although definately get the best that you can afford; they are just at a lower priority when allocating dollars).

I'm going to consider cheap to be under $1200 for everything that fits inside the case (no monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc. included in the price).

So, let's get started looking at the individual components.

Case:
I'm not going to recommend a specific case because it is a matter of what you like. Cases go from totally bland to totally over the top (the prices move in a similar fashion). Just make sure you get one that is a full-size ATX mid-tower case, not Micro-ATX.

Motherboard:
ASUS A8V Deluxe
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...131-510&depa=1
$129.50

ASUS makes great motherboards. Just read the reviews.

Processor:
AMD Athlon 64 Socket 939 3500+
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...103-463&DEPA=0
$267.50

All of the latest games run better on AMD 64 processors. At least for the moment, AMD has won the processor war for gamers.

Video Card:
eVGA GeForce 6800 Ultra
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...130-196&depa=0
$499.00

RAM:
Corsair XMS 512MB DDR3200
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...145-416&DEPA=1
2x$99.50

Hard Drive:
Western Digital 80GB SATA 7200RPM
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...135-106&depa=1
$64.49

If all you are doing is playing games, you won't need a huge drive. You can always upgrade later, and this keeps your costs low.

Optical Drive:
LITE-ON 16x DVD-ROM
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...131-118&depa=1
$23.00

You don't really need a burner on a gaming system, but a DVD-ROM (not CD-ROM) is a good idea because more and more games are being released on DVD-ROM as well as 562342745 CD-ROMs, and it is only a few dollars more and saves a lot of CD-swapping.

Total Cost: $1182.49

[Scifience]

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
But if you decide to do this, I'm rather confident you can just buy an aftermarket card, disable or remove whatever is in there now, and dance all night.

The low-end Dells do not have AGP slots. You're stuck with integrated video.

[Scifience]

Originally posted by Icruise:
Thanks for the replies so far. A bit more information about what I'm looking for, plus some questions:

I don't want to spend more than $1000, not including monitor, and if possible I'd like to spend less. Is it possible to play games like Doom 3, Half-life 2 and World of Warcraft well on a machine in this price range? I already have things like speakers and a DVD burner, so they aren't necessary. And I might just use my current cinema display as the monitor -- I assume that there are DVI switches that would allow this?

The machine I listed is a little outside of your price range, but is much more future-proof than some of the other ideas presented. AMD is moving to socket 939, so buying a socket 754 system leaves you with no upgrade path without buying a whole new motherboard too.

It will also play the games better because it is faster (obviously).

I think my main problem is that I no longer have a real sense of what is a good, fast CPU, or what is a good video card for gaming. So if you could give me a general idea of what kind of CPU and video card you would look out for in this price range, that would be helpful. For example, while there have been a number of interesting deals from Dell mentioned on some bargain websites recently, I can't really tell which of their models would be appropriate for my needs. If you were buying a somewhat inexpensive gaming machine from Dell, what would you choose?

I've said it, others have said, and I'll say it again: AVOID DELL. Their machines use non-standard parts (for example, their Audigy cards are modified), and there is no AMD64 in their lineup. AMD64 is what you want for a gaming system.

The bottom line is that I want to be able to play some games that aren't available on the Mac (e.g. Doom 3, Half-life 2) and maybe play even those that have Mac versions better than my current Mac will allow (World of Warcraft). But I'd rather know ahead of time if my budget isn't reasonable for this, since I'd rather spend the money elsewhere (like maybe toward a G5) than be disappointed by the performance of the machine once I get it.

If you can spare the extra $200, I can guarantee you that the system I listed will be able to play those games (and future games) easily. In fact, it would be better (processer-wise and video card-wise) than the one I built for $4000 at the beginning of the summer.

[InterfaceGuy]

I suggest ZipZoomFly for buying parts. Everything comes with free 2nd day shipping. Prices are the same as NewEgg. Well, its actually cheaper for me since NewEgg charges tax in Tennessee.

[Truepop]

thanks for the ZipZoomFly link. I don't like the 9.25% tax

[icruise]

I've been doing a little more research. I've liked some of the stuff Shuttle makes, and the SB83G5 looks pretty good (as does the SB86i mentioned earlier, but I guess that's not available yet). I'm really not averse to building my own computer, and while I've never done it before, I have done quite a bit of hardware tinkering in the past, so I think I can handle it. I also remembered that I have a copy of Windows XP that's not being used, so that would cut down the price of a machine that I would build a bit.

If I went with the Shuttle SB83G5, am I correct in understanding that it has the motherboard already included, but no CPU, graphics card, memory etc?

I haven't really looked into this closely, but just so I can see if I'm on the right track, I put a few things in my cart at ZipZoomFly.com. Can you tell me if these would A. work with the Shuttle, and B. give me decent gaming performance?

Shuttle XPC SB83G5 Pentium 4/Celeron Barebone System $269.00

Intel Pentium� 4 530 Processor Prescott 3.0GHz, 800MHz FSB, Socket 775, 1MB Cache $177.80

Corsair VS512MB400 512MB DDR400 PC3200 CAS2.5 Value Select Memory x2 = $153.00

Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 ST3160021A 160GB Ultra ATA/100 7200RPM Hard Drive $93.00

Liteon SOHC-5232K DVD-ROM 16x + CD-RW 52x32x52 Combo Drive (Black) $51.00

They don't seem to have the 256 bit version of the Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro at ZipZoomFly, but let's assume I'll get it somewhere for around $200.

Of course, I also need a keyboard and mouse, etc. But the above items come to just under $1000, which I would be comfortable with. Am I overlooking or misunderstanding something? Would I need a sound card, too?

[Scotttheking]

I'd recommend an AMD Athlon 64 system that uses Socket 939 over an Intel system, especially for gaming.

--Scott

[icruise]

Can you recommend a small system like the Shuttle that uses an AMD processor? I don't have a lot of space and I like the idea of a smaller system.

[Scotttheking]

SN95G5
I'd pair it with a 3200+ or a 3500+, socket 939, of course.
Add in 2x512 PC3200 ram and an AGP video card in your budget range and you should have a nice system.

[Luca Rescigno]

The only concern with a small form factor system is that it'll cost a bit more and you have less room for some of the higher-end video cards. Also, the cooling isn't great and some of the better video cards these days need more power than a miniature power supply can provide. Still, that'll only be a concern if you go for a GeForce 6800 or something like that. I have a GeForce 6800 (standard, not the faster GT) and it's a very large video card that requires an auxiliary power connector.

Going for something small will probably be fine since you don't need a lot of PCI cards or extra hard drives and optical drives. Plus it makes the building experience a lot simpler since you're just beginning. One suggestion is that you might want to put some money into a good sound card if you're going to be hooking up any halfway decent speakers. Onboard sound is generally really bad on PCs. A good, cheap solution for this is the Chaintech AV-710, which costs just about $25 and is based on the very good Via Envy24 chipset (same one used in the much more expensive M-audio Revolution).

A Radeon 9800 Pro is a good match for that system. If you want to get a 9700 Pro, it's not quite as fast but it's very close, and it's much cheaper. I saw a refurbished, Crucial-branded one (sold at the Crucial website) for $130 or so, which is an excellent price. That's about $10 more than a 9600 Pro for a card with twice the memory bandwidth and twice the fill rate. Given that even a 9600 Pro will play those games fairly well (I used to have one myself), I bet a 9700 Pro would do an excellent job. You can always upgrade later to a higher-end video card if you want, but Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 should be fine.