[stevieleaky]

I think I've Had just about enough of this freezing ordeal on my imac. I've tried everything... I've asked many questions on this board to prevent them and came up with nadda... You guys are all great though.... many of you are extremely helpfull and I seriously do not think any P.C. board are as freindly and helpfull as you all here. Thanks for that. Its just a constant struggle to get my imac stable and it just does not happen. So on that, I am thinkin of trying the dreadfull PC. ugh

[MacNZ]

Noooooo.........
bummer man, got a bunger iMac. Don't go buy a PC though, you'll have just as many probs. Whats the story? Surely your friendly local mac store guy you bought it off will be reasonable and help you through your probs? PC is like last resort, like if Apple goes bankrupt (unlikely!)

Hey, sometimes things just don't work out, right? I know the frustration involved with trying to get a computer to behave properly - I've bought my share of lemon computers too.

Can't say I can condone your leaving the Mac platform, but keep an open mind about future Apple products. I really think Apple is going to be the envy of this industry again; so wonderful is a future that can be shaped!




------------------
Eliott Wolfe
Winnetka, Calif

[slboett]

Stevie,

Sorry it didn't work out for you. Was this your first Mac? Was the iMac new? Tell me the details.

Scott

iMacs are ment as introductory products for
users new to the Mac OS, but it isn't the best
Apple has to offer, check out the Powermac G3/G4 tower systems, or a Powerbook notebook, that's the high-end stuff.


------------------
WEZ

I disagree that the iMac and iBook computers aren�t the best products Apple has to offer. Of course the G4 is faster and the PowerBook has more ports than the iBook, but if you compare reliability and quality of components, the two lines would be very close. Apple's low end stuff is industry leading and I never end up recommending a higher end system to a client because I think the quality of a consumer level Mac is any less than a Pro line Mac.

I could not have said this two and a half years ago, but things have changed.


------------------
Eliott Wolfe
Winnetka, Calif

As much as I hate it I have to agree PCs are more stable than iMacs.

But that doesn't mean iMacs are unusable. They are very usable.

I don't know if you've tried any of these:

1 Switch to the Mac OS base extension set
2 Run your iMac off the software install CD for a while. Does that help?
3 Remove all USB devices
4 Plug the keyboard into USB port 1
5 Allocate more memory / cache space to your apps
6 Install all the software updates
7 Zap the NVRAM. It's basically a PRAM zap but you must shut down the mac first then start up with the key combo.
8 If all fails take it in for service.

let me know if any of it works/doesn't work
([email protected])

[joe]

Originally posted by chopbert:
As much as I hate it I have to agree PCs are more stable than iMacs.
([email protected])

Ummm. Unless you're refering to iMacs older than my DV, this isn't true. I've worked on Mini computers, 8 bits, and PCs since '85 and and am responsible for a great many PCs including NT/Win98 networks and proprietary (non-industry standard) microprocessor networks (with PCs of course). My 6 month old iMacDV (which happens to be my 1st Mac ever) is simply the most rock solid computer I've used to date. I work on too many PCs not to know better. PCs have advantages to be sure, but stability is most especially NOT one of them. If anyone is having trouble handling Mac OS9.04, just try to figure .ini and registry file conflicts.

Quite frankly, the original post has given almost no information - not even which iMac much less what software, peripheral, etc is involved. If someone posted that about a PC there's no way that even the manufacturer's rep would know where to start. My 1st impressions was that someone is trolling. My suggestion if it is not a troll? Call your local Mac dealer ASAP. The problem could range from anything to extension conflicts to driver updates for your peripherals. It could also be a hardware problem with whatever iMac you are using. The dealer will be able to handle any of those for you. If you can't find a local Mac shop, log onto Apple.com and check the service area. A web page is set up to locate the nearest dealer and service center.

[slboett]

Boy, what a dope I am - I have an iMac DV SE and have been using Macs since 1984. I wish I had seen this forum before buying it .
The iMac line is superb. The main issue lies in that Apple markets them to 9 year olds and grandmothers - all computers, iMacs included, need to be attended to at some point by someone with, at the very least, basic computer knowledge.
This iMac is the best Mac I've owned and I have a G4 (which I'm typing on) and a Pismo 500 right next to me.
It's easy to setup and learn as myh 7 year old will attest to. BUT, no computer is perfect. Some games crash (actually, that's about the only thing that crashes) and occasionally a website with questionable Java will freeze IE 5 or iCab. Otherwise, it's an awesome computer!
Everyone I've recommended them to has been delighted.

Scott

I left the PC world because of constant freezes and problems. I have never been sorry about my decision to buy an iMac! Surely, the person that sold you your computer can come up with some suggestions to alleviate your problems!? Maybe you just got a "bad one." Hang in there and I'm sure you will be glad that you did in the long run!

[stevieleaky]

I have a REV A , 64Mb, OS 8.6, 233Mh, cable internet, all the updates..
U.S.B.= zip drive, lacie 20Gb hard drive, que cdrw.

The zip, lacie 20Gb, and my keboard is hooked up to the 4 port mcally usb hub which is hooked right in the side of the imac.

My cdrw is hooked right into the side of the imac(for faster speeds).

I have had many freezes in the past, almost everyday. I figured out the most of them, thanks much to all of you on this board, but now (and after I reinstalled all the software on a clean install) just about every time I go to shut down or restart it freezes. I think it is the new explorer that causes it because everytime i use the imac without running explorer it runs great and shuts down properly, but if I use explorer for 5 or more minutes It always freezes on shutdown or restart... however even though I use explorer I can work on my comp for hours with no problems, its just at shutdown.... I even trashed the new version of explorer and installed the old one and it runs like a peach and shuts great... but for certain access reasons I need the new version. I am happy that all the other freezes (while I work with the computer on for hours) are gone, but this one just set me off... there just always seems to be something new to make it freeze.....

I've tried all the basics, zapping Pram, rebuilding desktop, etc... I have asked about this before and I guess It does not sound familiar to anyone, If it is not the new explorer it definately has somthing to do with the internet connection/preferences/configuration....

Sorry, I accidentally posted this as a new topic also.... oops

[slboett]

Two things I'd definately do - but they will cost you money.
Update to OS 9.0.4 - it handles USB much better.
Buy more RAM.
I personally think all those USB devices are your root trouble. Have you run without all of them (sans mouse and keyboard, obviously)?

Scott

[ValVashon]

Try This:

Download the latest version of Netscape (just bear with me). Try using this for a week or so and see if the computer freezes. I know Netscape doesn't have many fans around here but it's what I use and I have almost no freezes (I now have 160mb of memory, too). The only time I used Explorer on my Rev. B was to download Netscape when we got the computer. Then Explorer went in the trash. I'm not suggesting something that drastic for you, but if Netscape freezes your computer too, then it could be a modem problem or some other hardware problem. If not, then it's probably Explorer. If the thought of Netscape makes you retch, then try iCab. It's a really neat, lean browser, but it doesn't have e-mail.

Whiny Val

[wlonh]

listen to slboett... and me as well, upon occasion

man, i hafta say that macs are stable.

and i know wintel converts (current mac pals o' mine) who will say the same and have said so right here in these fora, and i mean sysadmins of modest wintel networks, and these folks are not stupid.

i am always sad to hear of a bad mac experience, and i hope yours turns out better sooner than later...

you can email me if you'd like more direct help

[joe]

Originally posted by stevieleaky:
I have a REV A , 64Mb, OS 8.6, 233Mh, cable internet, all the updates..
U.S.B.= zip drive, lacie 20Gb hard drive, que cdrw.

<snip explorer problem>

I definitely agree with the suggestion to upgrade to OS9.04. My DV came with OS9.0 and the .04 update fixed many problems with USB and graphics. I have different USB devices (SuperDisk, HP930, ZyXel ISDN, iSub) but they work excellent at OS9.04. Also, be sure to check for the latest input sprockets update. This was not installed automatically by the OS9 Software Update control panel. So I ended up running the older sprockets with the latest OS for a couple weeks until I figured out what was going on.

I'm not sure that the latest Explorer is your problem. It works fine here but then again I'm on OS9.04, so the OS update may solve that problem. As for Netscape, I've found that 4.72 is more stable than 4.73 on my iMacDV. I'm a long time Netscape user and actually prefer its combined browser / mail / news config to IE/OE on PC. But for some reason the Mac version of IE/OE seems to work better than the PC version. And I'm used to it by now on Mac.

One suggestion - get more RAM. It just seems to make the iMac faster overall. I'd recommend 128MB at least. I have 196MB on my DV with virtual memory disabled.....joe

[roders]

There seems to be a lot of reasons your iMac 's been crashing, Cable internet, USB harddrive, Que CDRW, no OS 9.0.4, USB hub, (since you've sorted all the probs/devices out, have you noticed none of them are made by Apple? but all are also available for the PC!) but as you say Explorer 5 is your prob, it reguarly crashes my otherwise stable iMac, as do most of microsh*te's product's, but have you given ANY consideration as to what OS you'll be running on your wintell? the one that makes "EXPLORERE 5" per chance?
Common, think about it!

[andi*pandi]

Hi Stevie...

One thing jumped out at me when I read your specs. You have your keyboard plugged into a hub. I seem to recall that is a no-no, the keyboard should go direct to mac.

And as for other stuff, if it only crashes after using newer IE, then logically IE must be the problem. Horses not zebras. Do the test suggested, try Netscape. Just don't throw out the computer because of a browser.

I personally trashed IE the first thing after setting up my internet connection. Only problem with Netscape sometimes out of memory errors. ( I need more memory... MORE!)

Steve, try this:

1) Ditch the QPS and ALL associated software. including whatever version of Toast you are using.
2) Upgrade to MacOS 9, apply all the updates, *especially* the USB storage update.
3) Upgrade Toast to the latest commercial version.

Good luck.

[Loonbum]

NOT YET, DON'T FRET YET! The new Mac OS X PROMISES that is won't freeze hardly at all! Now thats awesome. The release will be monumental! It is soon coming out with a Beta version and plans on being on the market in the fall, just wait!

-Tyler

[stevieleaky]

Andi*Pandi... why can I not plug my keyboard into the hub? and I think I will try one more time... I am going to upgrade to 9.04 just as soon I get more memory($$$)..64Mb just is not enough for that os... I'll let ya know what happens...

[luap82]

i think there is a good possibility that your problems are related to your USB hub. These work VERY poorly in most of my experiences, especially with such little RAM. I'd suggest getting more RAM, and also switching around your USB configuration. First of all, dont plug the keyboard into the hub and dont plug anything into the keyboard except the mouse. If you can, ditch the hub altogether and only plug in the CDR when u need it, USB is hot swappable, its so easy to switch, Hubs basically suck. Dont go to the dark side, you will regret ever THINKING of buying a PC, yikes, i shudder at the thought.
-LUAP

[andi*pandi]

Well, I'm having difficulty remembering why keyboard+hub=bad idea...

I think maybe when I first got my hub I tried that as well, and it was bad. hmmm. lemme go to the techboard and see.

I don't think hubs are all bad--they are necessary. But there is *something* about power supply... keyboard... argh...

I need a memory upgrade for me. <

Reliablity? If you want true reliablity get a unix workstation. I've got an iMac Lime 266, iBook Tangerine 300 (these two guys are running MacOS 9.0.4), an SE/30 Platinium 16 (MacOS 7.5.5), Hewlett Packard 7360 Pentium, eMachines 333i, Packard Bell iForce Pentium (all running Win98se), and last but not least a Silicon Graphics Indigo2 Extreme (Irix 5.3). The most reliable of the bunch is the Indigo. Believe it or not the next reliable is the iBook. It never crashes. The next reliable is the iMac. Hell, as a matter of fact they are all pretty reliable. They're on almost 24 hours a day (the HP 7360 is a proxy server using WinGate for the rest of my system via ethernet with an Airport Base Station as a wireless bridge to the iBook). I think reliablity is a function of system upkeep (assuming the machines are in good shape with no hardware problems). I am 100% religious about system cleanups and backups. I just don't let my systems get screwed up. I always update my system software (if I can afford it, Irix 6.5 costs about $300.00). Bottom line. Don't give up on the Mac. They are wonderful machines. I will never buy another PC (if I can get them for free I'll take them). I bought my first Mac back when the Plus was brand new. I got lost for a while in the PC world. It's always good to go home.
-joe-


------------------
iMac (Lime 266 OS 9), iBook (Tangerine 300 OS 9), SE/30 (Platinum 16 OS 7.5.5)

Sounds like IE 5 or USB. However, we had a rev A imac that would freeze very often. It also would not awaken from sleep. It was a hardware problem, that was eventually fixed under warranty. ram is a good idea, but i am wondering what the minimum requirements will be for osX ? pcs can be stable when running a BSD operating system.

[stevieleaky]

Well, I hope its not a Hardware problem.. My imac is no longer under warranty and I havn't a clue how to find what hardware is at fault...

most likely not hardware. I would try the netscape idea as well as the others mentioned, maybe one at a time.

Here's a couple of quick things for AFTER you upgrade to 9.0.4:

1. Shut down (not restart) and unplug ALL your USB devices, except the keyboartd/mouse which should be connected direct to one of the USB ports.

Then start up - chances are it will be normal.

2. Disable ALL Iomega software that came on the CD with your Zip. It will run fine from the drivers built in to the OS ROM.

3. Plug in your hub (should be powered) to the other USB port and restart. Should start normally.

4. Connect one USB device at a time to the hub and restart until you locate a problem item - there may be none - the Iomega conflict could have caused all your problems.

OS 9.0.4 is a beautiful, stable system - however USB is at the root of a few glitches - but they can be solved without too much trouble.

Trust you will let us know how you make out.

WDL

If a person wants to go back to the PC or switch from Mac to PC, why can't you people just accept it? ALL computers are trouble. Too many of you get after me every time I complain about the iMac. For me it has been trouble. At the same time I HATE Win 98! As a result I remain with my 3 year old Compaq Presario with the original version of Win 95 (which I love!).

Jimmy

[ThinkInsane]

Well Jimmy, I think the idea is that it makes no sense to chuck a perfectly good computer that is probably fixable. I really don't think this thread is a mac vs. PC debate. I think that everyone is just trying to help stevie fix his machine....

[Arty50]

I'm also running OS 8.6 on a Rev. A iMac with 160 megs of RAM and IE5 has been really dogging me lately. Quite a few freezes and its performance in general has been really shoddy. Maybe OS 9 will solve this problem; I dunno. It's really, really been annoying me lately.

[wlonh]

have you tried the reinstall technique of IE5 referred to by myself many times in the IE forum?

[SpeedRacer]

Originally posted by stevieleaky:
I have a REV A , 64Mb, OS 8.6, 233Mh, cable internet, all the updates.. U.S.B.= zip drive, lacie 20Gb hard drive, que cdrw.

just about every time I go to shut down or restart it freezes. I think it is the new explorer that causes it because everytime i use the imac without running explorer it runs great and shuts down properly, but if I use explorer for 5 or more minutes It always freezes on shutdown or restart... however even though I use explorer I can work on my comp for hours with no problems, its just at shutdown.... I even trashed the new version of explorer and installed the old one and it runs like a peach and shuts great... but for certain access reasons I need the new version. I am happy that all the other freezes (while I work with the computer on for hours) are gone, but this one just set me off... there just always seems to be something new to make it freeze.....

Did you trash the IE prefs? Also, after installing IE5 move the extensions it installs (Microsoft Component Library, Microsoft Framework,Microsoft Internet Library, MS Font Embed Library (PPC)) into the same folder as your IE application (the app, NOT the alias of the app). I'd actually recommend this tip to ANYONE running IE5. I heard this trick a while back and it has improved stability on this machine (iMac rev D) and IE5 tremendously. You might also want to trash your Finder Prefs as this error is occurring at shutdown. Obviously it goes w/out saying that if you are having these issues recur you should have tried running a MacOS base/full install by now, so i won't go there. As others hinted at, try running your iMac w/the USB periphereals sans hub for a while too just to see if it makes any difference.

If none of this works, you might need to either (a) do a clean install of 8.6 or (b) reformat your hard drive. After going nuts DL'ing tons of shareware and system add-ons, i basically reformatted my drive 5 times before i achieved the current state of OS stability. Course i was also using OS9.0 so i think that was 1/2 of it. Stick w/8.6. If you can't get 8.6 stable it is not likely 9 will work much better.

Speed

[stevieleaky]

OK, I have tried just about everything you all sugested, and thanks. The only thing that came close to fixing the problem was trashing the internet prefs. It would shut down normally for 2 days and then it was back to the old freeze on shutdown/restart. I kept my computer on for more than 24 hours one day and it shut down with no problems, so now it seems that if I use my computer for less than 5 minutes or over a day it shuts down alright..... ugh.... oh and I also installed icab(much faster than IE) and the problem still exists illiminating the theory of IE being the problem... I am still yet to upgrade to os9(.04).. One question= How much RAM is suitable for os 9 to run smoothly? I have 64mb right now...

[joe]

Originally posted by stevieleaky:
One question= How much RAM is suitable for os 9 to run smoothly? I have 64mb right now...

It depends on what software you want to run. My iMacDV was perfectly happy with the stock 64MB of RAM for everything except 3D games. So I didn't upgrade the memory until several months after I bought it. But for the best frame rates on Quake3 and UT, I'd say 196MB would be ideal.....joe

[petek]

In my experience with our DV, 64 M is about enough to run OS 9 and a small app. I had alot of weird behavior in that configuration, too. You really need at least 128 M for any modern machine, Mac or PC.

192 M works just fine for us because there's plenty of room for memory hogs (like OS 9, any MS app and most browsers), and it will let you turn off Virtual Memory, which I've had problems with on most Macs.

Another thing that I found that made a BIG improvement was defragmenting the HD. I had a lot of problems getting this machine up and with all the re-installs the disk got a bit fragmented. Even with clean installs of the OS, you can have system code and preferences spread out all over the disk. I ran Norton Speed Disk and voila: it booted in about half the time and runs much snappier.

The only app which still mis-behaves now is Virtual PC. (ironic, eh?) I tried v3.0, v3.03 and now am experimenting with v2.13. The latter seems more stable, but still occasionally locks up when running a Citrix "thin client" to a remote NT server. I'm not convinced the problem isn't with the thin client server, though. (I've allocated 80 M of RAM to this sucker)

Our iMac is now:
DV 400
10 G HD
192 M Ram (original 64 + 128 from TransIntl)
OS 9.04
Firmware update 2.4
Belkin 4-port USB hub with AC power
Imation SuperDrive
Epson 740i

[slboett]

petek,
CItrix makes a Mac client - why not use that?

Scott
http://download.citrix.com/

[petek]

I'd love to use the Mac client, but it only supports network connection, and I need remote dial-in access. The server I'm trying to connect to is configured for a directly connected dial-in modem for outside access, and Citrix uses some kind of proprietary protocol ("ICA Dial-in"), which isn't available on the Mac client (only Windoz of all flavors). Gee, where have we heard that before?

So much for their much-touted platform independent access!

And yes, the server does support network connections for in-house clients, but they don't have dial-in modems on their network. Or so says their amazingly inert Sys Admin person.

[seanyepez]

Stevie,

I'm so sorry about your troubles with your iMac. My iMac (revision B) is not troublesome, but slow - probably because I'm running Mac OS 9 with 32 megabytes of virtual RAM.

I would hate to see you trash your iMac for a PC. Remember, us here at MacNN and probably many Macintosh boards are going to help you through almost anything.

I suggest you back up everything to the LaCie external drive, and do a clean install. That means initializing your disk with Drive Setup. Boot from your "Software Restore" CD-ROM, use Drive Setup, initialize your drive, and you're set for a drive image. Use the program on the disk that restores the factory settings onto your Mac. Do this, and you shall have a clean sysytem. After this, you'll have a new machine - almost, at least. Selectively install things you will need - not anything and everything - and download the updates.

Your system should be much better. The fragmentation will be no more, and your system will be all-in-all newer and feel that way.

Once you're convinced you have a great Mac, go and get more RAM, upgrade to Mac OS 9, and buy yourself a G4 upgrade card.

[seanyepez]

Ah, yes. I am a Mac and PC user. My PC, though it "feels" faster and is more integrated (I'll give the evil Microsoft that), makes you restart and do a lot of things just to change the slightest configuration setting. Sure, it might be faster for Quake III: Arena, but it's not as fast as the Mac in SETI@home.

I'm not saying that the PC is a horrible system - it's not. The PC and Mac platforms are there to choose between. It's just that most people here (including myself) prefer their Macs (or Mac) to a sucky beige box. Make that three, or four boxes, at that.

[seanyepez]

Perhaps it's a hardware problem. Your motherboard or logic board may not have gone into the machines at the right temperature - that causes constant crashes forever.

I'd be lying if I could honestly tell you that everything is going to be alright if you get a new Mac, but you could try. Did your iMac always behave this way? If so, perhaps you should have talked with Apple about some serious hardware replacements.

I really want you to be part of this happy Mac community. I probably haven't helped you much in the past (I'm a moderator of the PowerBook and PDA forums, and do a lot of posting on the Mac OS, Mac Modification, and Mac Games forums).

I wish Apple would do more serious burn-in tests on their computers. This way, they could make more happy consumers, like you... could have been.

Good luck, Steve.

[stevieleaky]

Well, Mac os 9 apperently did it, I have not crashed for days... I wonder what it was though...

Hey Bud! Just a word of warning.

If your going to switch from an iMac to a PC on the basis of Internet Explorer causing freezes, DONT!

I have an iMac at home running as a totally professional system and the only freeze I have is with DHCp and a login client for cable access!

On the other hand, Im using Internet Explorer on a PC at work. (The Horror), and Internet Explorer crashes EVERY TIME I LOAD IT! It is as slow as anything, wont recognise quicktime, Flash, and many other plug ins.

It is the ususal Microsft bloatware that does nothing!

I switched to Nescape yesterday and it works fine.

Please, Please reconsider, update to p.0.4, send me a system profile report and ill look at your setp fir you. i will do as much as i can to help you stay with Mac.

[email protected]

cheers

[wlonh]

GO to the IE5 forum and use the fastest and most stable browser there is...

and please believe, i hate MS and have not ever given them a penny of my money... not a red cent! but IE rocks, it is the only MS software allowed on my Macs, period, and if you do the things delineated in some of my posts there in the IE forum you will find how to keep IE going right and with very little effort, i swear... i love it (starting with IE4.5) and i formerly used Netscape for years... quoth the raven, nevermore!

or else maybe you SHOULD get a pc

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 08-03-2000).]

[joe]

I 2nd that. IE5 rocks on my iMacDV with MacOS9.04. I'm also a former Netscape owner converted to IE. Both my PCs at work and iMac used Netscape up to about 4.73 (Mac). IE5 is much more stable and seems to work better all around including plugins.

But if you really must have Netscape, then I recommend Netscape 4.72 over 4.73. For some reason, 4.73 just loves to crash hard. Also, the upgrade to the OS9.04 fixed a lot of problems for me........joe

I third that. IE5 flies. I held on to Netscape as long as I could, but IE blows it away and believe me I hate MS. At work I have to deal with Wincrash 95. iCab preview 2.1 was released yesterday. This is a nice little Mac browser. www.icab.de

[Angus_D]

I have to say that IE5, great tho it may be, crashes me a lot... iMac Rev D (333) w/96mb RAM.

[wlonh]

Angus_D, you might try fixing it by checking the many tips that are posted, if you even somewhat diligently try, you will fix it:
http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Foru...ML/000393.html
http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Foru...ML/000381.html


seek and ye shall find

this too shall pass

look, folks, i am not so special... but why is it that my Macs all behave as they should? why is that? maybe because i am somewhat diligent in my observation of MacOS behavior and software behavior and i seek and find answers to my issues (which have become ever more rare over the years, due in no small part to the fact that MacOS and software for Mac gets better all the time)

a computer, any computer, is not a telephone or a refrigerator or a microwave oven or any number of things that you can use without thinking much... a computer requires some effort to use and make work correctly... and with Macs that effort is much less than it is with a PC... there are any number of testimonials to that fact here in our fora... and it is a matter of record... here is but one example, see the next to last post in this thread: http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Foru...ML/000373.html

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 08-04-2000).]

[MauroCol]

Hi, Stevie!

I red all the messages and your last post was happy... didn't you have more problems with the iMac? Will you continue in the "Mac-side"?

[stevieleaky]

definately, my imac is running mint now.....I'm now thinking of an imac upgrade to g4...hmmm

But if you really must have Netscape, then I recommend Netscape 4.72 over 4.73. For some reason, 4.73 just loves to crash hard. Also, the upgrade to the OS9.04 fixed a lot of problems for me........joe[/B][/QUOTE]

Strange for me 4.73 is more stable I just don't remembre my last crash but I give 20,000K of memory to netscape.