[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

And on that train of thought, why is the iPhone running Mac OS X? Windows is clearly superior. Stupid Apple.

Well that was certainly a logical leap into oblivion. I think your thinking-train derailed.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

1. If those prices make you want to pass out, why are you considering a $600 telephone whose functionality centers around those features? It honestly seems like an unwise purchase.

I'm not. I also think $600 with contract for a phone is ludicrous, especially for a phone that lacks basic functionality found in every free phone on the market.

2. I don't believe any of those are the plan that's supposed to come with the iPhone.

We haven't yet seen any signs of AT&T having any special plans for the iPhone. It's wishful thinking at present, nothing more.

[stwain2003]

Originally Posted by macfantn 

have mms or instant messaging even a basic nokia 6030 does those things

iPhone details uncovered in Sales Training Workbook - Engadget

surely this can't be correct???

Yeah, I'm kinda pissed about the no IM thing also. But, rumor has it that part of the deal with AT&T is that Apple gets a portion of the user's monthly payment with the iPhone. In this case, if they use text messaging instead of just normal AIM chat, they can possibly make more money for people who text without a texting plan.

[chipchen]

Let's face it... you're paying $600 for an iPod with built-in phone and browser. that's it. That's what I've boiled it down to myself. Anything else is just a little bonus.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by chipchen 

Let's face it... you're paying $600 for an iPod with built-in phone and browser. that's it. That's what I've boiled it down to myself. Anything else is just a little bonus.

I agree on this. I think people are trying very hard to make the iPhone something that it isn't. Something that it was never intended to be. I'm sure there's a term for this, where a company announces a product, the public creates its own hype machine and blows things way out of proportion, then the public is let down big time since the product doesn't live up to the hype they created for it.

No one will deny there is an unprecedented amount of hype for this product. Funny thing is, Apple had very little to do with creating that hype. Some of it has to do with Apple's secrecy, some of it has to do with Apple just being Apple, but most of it has to do with the general public (actually, mostly due to the tech "journalists") who went out of their way to create this incredible wave of hype.

Then you have the "Apple Haters" who have created publicity in their own special way. By bashing a product no one knows much about every single chance they get, on as many places on the Web as possible.

I admit I got pulled into all the craziness. I was 2nd guessing my initial decision to buy one. I found myself assuming things I never should have assumed. But as of late I've kind of reeled myself back in. And as chipchen said, the iPhone is nothing more than a really cool iPod (with limited capacity compared to other iPod Video models), a slick Internet device, and a slick phone. That's it. Nothing more. Can it become something more? Damn right it can. But at this point in its life it is what it is and nothing more.

[Hawkeye_a]

Will it be able to record audio and video in addition to take pictures ? if it can, thats an entire media solution in your pocket in addition to a phone n web browser.

As far as hype..... 100 million iPods, 500 million copies of iTunes later... i assume people dont want to take a step back and try to use the mp3-phone hybrids from other companies now that theyve settled down with iPod+iTunes....... thats why the iPhone is so desired...iPod+phone imo. the design and interface is like a nice thick layer of icing on the cake.

[starman]

The iPhone solves the problem of having to carry around two devices. It's as simple as that. Anyone who has a jaded view of this device doesn't see the Big Picture. I used to have one of those iPaq phones. It was GREAT but the OS was a little clunky (not as crappy as Palm) and it was heavy. If this iPhone can step up, it'll be a badass device. I'm SO looking forward to it for a ton of reasons.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

Apple had very little to do with creating that hype. Some of it has to do with Apple's secrecy, some of it has to do with Apple just being Apple, but most of it has to do with the general public (actually, mostly due to the tech "journalists") who went out of their way to create this incredible wave of hype.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I've worked in high tech PR, and my general observation is that the vast majority of what tech journalists write comes straight from PR agencies. I'm sure that a product as highly anticipated as the iPhone is going to break from that trend more than most things, but don't be fooled. Apple (or their PR agency) wrote a lot of the articles you've read about the iPhone.

[analogika]

I read somewhere recently that the iPhone PR ensuing the January keynote was the equivalent of somewhere around $400 MILLION.

[JohnM15141]

well, look at the bright side, we already know it won't suck at being a music player, that part is already proven

...if apple comes anywhere near close to achieving that gadget "heaven" of an all in one device that actually works, I'll be happy!

Now if this thread were called "i can't believe the iPOD doesn't..." I'd say "...make phone calls!"

[ajprice]

New specs

Longer battery life and optical glass front instead of plastic.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by ajprice 

New specs

Longer battery life and optical glass front instead of plastic.

[PER3]

Originally Posted by chipchen 

Let's face it... you're paying $600 for an iPod with built-in phone and browser. that's it. That's what I've boiled it down to myself. Anything else is just a little bonus.

You're absolutely correct.

The thing is, that these toys are being sold to civilians, not engineers.

And that little bonus you're talking about is the very valuable quality called "desirability", which is not such a straightforward thing to manufacture.

Otherwise, like I said, you're right.

[nonhuman]

Damn, that's some impressive battery live. Although I assume those numbers are if it's only doing those things. If you're connected to the internet while listening to music i'm sure the battery life is much lower.

I find the way people respond to the pricing of iPhone to be interesting. Sure $600 is a lot for a phone, even for a smartphone, but the iPhone isn't just a smartphone. It's a smartphone (one that runs OS X to boot) as well as the widescreen iPod we've all been waiting for (or at least I have). The way I see it, if it were just the widescreen iPod it would still probably cost between $400 and $500. So throwing in an OS X smartphone for a mere $100 to $200 is actually a really good deal. I suspect that this is the way the product evolved as well (everyone wanted the widescreen iPod, but there was no way that it could be done in a cost effective way, but by incorporating a fairly revolutionary smartphone they were able to add a lot more features without raising the price by very much).

[Uriel]

For me the concern is not the one time cost of the phone. My concern is the cost of Cingular's data plans.

[Peter]

Apples power quotes are rarely accurate, they quote 4-5 hours for the MacBook ......

[ajprice]

A macbook will last 5 hours, if you turn off the airport and bluetooth, take the DVD out, sit there and watch the desktop, lol.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Peter 

Apples power quotes are rarely accurate, they quote 4-5 hours for the MacBook ......

No one's power quotes are totally accurate. The graphic above states it right in the fine print. These are very ideal situations they are quoting. Its a marketing tool, not a tool to use for judging how long your phone will last on that flight to China.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

No one's power quotes are totally accurate. The graphic above states it right in the fine print. These are very ideal situations they are quoting. Its a marketing tool, not a tool to use for judging how long your phone will last on that flight to China.

Which brings us to an interesting point. Does it have a radio off mode?

[ironknee]

i can't believe no flash support

but if there is would that make adobe come under the tent and apple doesn't want that?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Which brings us to an interesting point. Does it have a radio off mode?

It's an iPod and a video player. OF COURSE it'll have an airplane mode.

(I seem to remember it mentioned *somewhere* at some point, as well, though I could be wrong.)

[nonhuman]

So now apparently the iPhone will have YouTube in some sort of dedicated player. I wonder if this means anything for Flash support.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

i can't believe no flash support

but if there is would that make adobe come under the tent and apple doesn't want that?

It seems odd that Apple wouldn't want Adobe 'under the tent'. Adobe's PDF is rather integral to OS X, which is the OS running on the iPhone. Presumably the iPhone has some ability to view PDFs, so Adobe should already be in there.

[TETENAL]

PDF is an open standard. You don't need Adobe to implement it. Unlike Flash.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

So now apparently the iPhone will have YouTube in some sort of dedicated player. I wonder if this means anything for Flash support.

No, means nothing for Flash support.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/06/20youtube.html

YouTube has begun encoding their videos in the advanced H.264 format, and iPhone will be the first mobile device to use the H.264-encoded videos. Over 10,000 videos will be available on June 29, and YouTube will be adding more each week until their full catalog of videos is available in the H.264 format this fall.

[ajprice]

Maybe this is part of the spec and I missed it, but if an Apple TV can stream YouTube to an iPhone, can it also stream any content (in a resized for iPhone form) from the iTunes library? If the technology is there for Apple TV to be a kind of Slingbox for YouTube and sent the videos to your iPhone, why not make it a Slingbox for iTunes??

Also, I'm not sure how long it's been there but there's a 4th iPhone advert now - Watered Down

Basics of it is that iPhone internet isn't mobile or cut down, its full internet (so we're still guessing that it supports Flash.)

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

No, means nothing for Flash support.

YouTube Live on Apple TV Today; Coming to iPhone on June 29

Ah, I missed that part. Very cool.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by ajprice 

Maybe this is part of the spec and I missed it, but if an Apple TV can stream YouTube to an iPhone, can it also stream any content (in a resized for iPhone form) from the iTunes library? If the technology is there for Apple TV to be a kind of Slingbox for YouTube and sent the videos to your iPhone, why not make it a Slingbox for iTunes??

Also, I'm not sure how long it's been there but there's a 4th iPhone advert now - Watered Down

Basics of it is that iPhone internet isn't mobile or cut down, its full internet (so we're still guessing that it supports Flash.)

Eh? 1) iPhone doesn't stream youtube from AppleTV, it streams youtube from... Youtube.
2) That ad has been there since a shortly after the first ones.
3) No one is guessing iPhone supports Flash, we know for a fact that it does not.

Sorry.

[ajprice]

OK so I misunderstood the news, somehow i thought the youtube connection was between Apple TV and iPhone over wifi, I'm tired, leave me alone .

[macfantn]

what is the iphone

[Dakarʒ]

vaporware

[JoshuaZ]

Originally Posted by macfantn 

what is the Jesus Phone

Fixed!

[ink]

AT&T and Apple Announce Simple, Affordable Service Plans for iPhone

It does have SMS, at least.

[- - e r i k - -]

Unlimited mobile to mobile? That's pretty kick-ass, as no one uses land lines anymore. Here's hoping for this unprecedented feat to follow the iPhone over here.

Or are they lying?

[nonhuman]

It's probably only unlimited mobile to mobile if you're talking to other AT&T customers. That's pretty common, maybe even universal here. Carriers here are now even starting to offer unlimited calling to anyone on a small list that you determine, whether they're mobile numbers or landlines.

[- - e r i k - -]

I see. Marketing is allowed to run free with their little lies over there are they?

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

I see. Marketing is allowed to run free with their little lies over there are they?

Not really. When you look at the details of a plan they explain that 'mobile to mobile' means within their network. T-Mobile does the same thing here. Verizon, on the other hand, makes it very clear that it's only with other Verizon networks. They call it 'IN Calling' and you get unlimited minutes to other people with 'IN Calling' which is only Verizon customers.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

I see. Marketing is allowed to run free with their little lies over there are they?

I think the concept is common enough over here that they figured people will just assume.

[TETENAL]

http://www.operamini.com/beta/video/

[mdc]

That was awful.

[chipchen]

Umm... commercial doesn't make all that much sense... first he's the phone... comparing features (which they both have)... then he's the buyer without cash?

There are lots of expensive phones out there... with expensive plans... sure, the iPhone is a bit more pricey initially than most "smart" phones... but it's also targeted at people who can afford it.

Horrible spoof I would say.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I think the concept is common enough over here that they figured people will just assume.

So?

As a person working with advertising, allowing marketers to deliberately mislead - especially with blatant lies - will just create a general mistrust in advertising in general. It's a shame for both consumers and advertisers alike.

[chipchen]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

So?

As a person working with advertising, allowing marketers to deliberately mislead - especially with blatant lies - will just create a general mistrust in advertising in general. It's a shame for both consumers and advertisers alike.

Well, there's "theoretical claims" and there's "blatant lies." Basically, saying 8 hours talk time is theoretical, if the battery was new, the network signal is strong, volume is down, etc, etc.... It's not a blatant lie. That'd be more like... talk time of 30 hours while watching video.

Besides... you of all people then, working advertising... should know that the truth is consistently stretched... or left out... or put in fine print and with fast talking guys at the end of a commercial. Unfortunately, in today's age, you truly need to be a smart shopper, or you will get taken by most advertisers.

[::maroma::]

That kind of marketing has been in practice ever since the first salesman tried to sell something. They stretch the truth, they use words in a way that make something sound better than it really is. Why is this all of the sudden a surprise?

When has anyone ever trusted advertising as total truth?

[chipchen]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

That kind of marketing has been in practice ever since the first salesman tried to sell something. They stretch the truth, they use words in a way that make something sound better than it really is. Why is this all of the sudden a surprise?

When has anyone ever trusted advertising as total truth?

I did start to eat more eggs after that commercial that let the eggs out of prison (about 8 years ago?). You know, they're not as high in cholesterol as we thought?

[MOTHERWELL]

I can't believe the iPhone doesn't have.........


..........iChat!!! I thought this would be one of the main features of the iPhone. The clunky sidekick can do AIM - why not the iPhone.

...they will hopefully add iChat with an update, but it seems like something that should be present from v1.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by chipchen 

Well, there's "theoretical claims" and there's "blatant lies." Basically, saying 8 hours talk time is theoretical, if the battery was new, the network signal is strong, volume is down, etc, etc.... It's not a blatant lie. That'd be more like... talk time of 30 hours while watching video.

Theoretical claims and blatant lies are indeed two separate categories. "Up to 8 hours talk time" or "Approximately 8 hours talk time" are theorertical claims and it's usage in these contexts are honest.

UNLIMITED Mobile to Mobile is a blatant lie.

If your country had advertising regulations that prevented this sort of things from appearing in advertising, advertising itself would become more informative. Consumers would have clearer information and advertisers would have less distrustful consumers. It's really a win-win situation.

Originally Posted by chipchen 

Besides... you of all people then, working advertising... should know that the truth is consistently stretched... or left out... or put in fine print and with fast talking guys at the end of a commercial. Unfortunately, in today's age, you truly need to be a smart shopper, or you will get taken by most advertisers.

Indeed. But you have to keep in mind that advertising is when it comes down to it information. It communicates the benefits of a product or service so that a consumer can make an informed decision and compare it to similar products and services.

Unregulated advertising creates a situation where it becomes a matter of who is trickier or who shouts the loudest. That's why people hate advertising and that in turn hurts the market for everyone.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

That kind of marketing has been in practice ever since the first salesman tried to sell something. They stretch the truth, they use words in a way that make something sound better than it really is. Why is this all of the sudden a surprise?

When has anyone ever trusted advertising as total truth?

This illustrates my point exactly.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

UNLIMITED Mobile to Mobile is a blatant lie.

It's only a lie because you have no idea what you're talking about. In the US every single carrier has unlimited mobile to mobile calling, but it's only on their network. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it wrong - you're not the intended audience for their advertising.

[MOTHERWELL]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

UNLIMITED Mobile to Mobile is a blatant lie.

When I signed up for AT&T in 2003 they had a promotion - $100/mo. for UNLIMITED minutes. I could call anyone, anytime and talk for as long as I wanted.

That plan proved to be rather popular so it didn't last long, but that was the best mobile plan I had.