[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Randman 

Just visit a country where tipping is not the norm and see the difference in service between people who have an incentive to serve you well and those who don't. You'll become a big believer in the merits of tipping for good service.

Wrong. Where one is expected a tip there is no real incentive. When there is no tip expected, people still provide a good service. Great service usually gets rewarded anyway.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Wrong. Where one is expected a tip there is no real incentive. When there is no tip expected, people still provide a good service.

It may be expected, but it sure as hell isn't guaranteed.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Randman 

Just visit a country where tipping is not the norm and see the difference in service between people who have an incentive to serve you well and those who don't.

I don't understand which way you're thinking about this.

If tipping is essentially mandatory in the US, how does that improve service? She gives bad service, she'll get a tip. She gives good service, she'll get a tip. Where's the incentive?

Originally Posted by Randman 

You'll become a big believer in the merits of tipping for good service.

I'm a believer in "if she doesn't give good service, she's looking for a new job". That's incentive, and it works just fine at my favourite place.

[Dakarʒ]

In case you non-american's are unaware, servers do get stiffed for bad service.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

"Tipping' is actually based on an old English acronym: To Insure Promptness.

That can't be right. "Insure" can't even be used in that way - the correct word is "ensure". Urban myth?

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

And have you ever been a food server? It's a pretty lousy job at times. In many cases the customers are jerks and frequently customers behave as if they are "superior" to waitstaff workers. I take this into account too.

Yes, I've done it and I was pretty good at it too. So what about people who really have to put up with jerks? Cops for example. Should we tip them? Or teachers? Why not them too?

Originally Posted by ghporter 

"Tipping' is actually based on an old English acronym: To Insure Promptness. It was intended as a gratuity (look that one up in OED) to encourage better than average service.

Sorry Glenn, but I really wish people would check snopes.com (or similar services) before posting these things. There is no evidence of any kind that the word tipping was born out of an acronym: Urban Legends Reference Pages: Etymology of Tip

'Tip' is an old word, and it has nothing to do with either acronyms or the act of attempting to influence quality of service. Although the word has many meanings, both as a verb and as a noun, the use of the term as it applies to monetary rewards to servants dates to the 1700s. It first appeared in this context as a verb ("Then I, Sir, tips me the Verger with half a Crown" from the 1706 George Farquhar play <I>The Beaux Stratagem</I>) and was first recorded as a noun in 1755. However, the use of 'tip' to describe the act of giving something to another (where that list of possible 'somethings' could include small sums of money, intelligence on horse races, or the latest silly joke) goes back to 1610. 'Tip' slipped into the language as underworld slang, with the verb 'to tip' (meaning 'to give to or share with') being used by shady characters as part of the then-current argot of petty criminals.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

That can't be right. "Insure" can't even be used in that way - the correct word is "ensure". Urban myth?

English spelling wasn't standardized for a very long time...

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

English spelling wasn't standardized for a very long time...

That's not spelling - it's two different words meaning two different things.

[Mastrap]

See above.

[- - e r i k - -]

Seriously, acronyms rarely make new words (at least not before modern time). It's mostly just jokes that get taken as fact if repeated enough.

Acronyms are acronyms because they contract sentences into already EXISTING words, not the other way around.

[Doofy]

Of course, the phrase "giving her a tip" could also mean something completely different.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

That's not spelling - it's two different words meaning two different things.

It is spelling... Many people would pronounce them the same way and so, in the days before standardized spelling, would spell them the same way. Haven't you ever read stuff written before the 19th century? With the funky capitalization and irregular spellings all over the place?

Of course it's a moot point as that story was proven to be a myth.

[Jawbone54]

I don't think I tip more attractive people better. If a server is bad or decent, I'll give the obligatory 15%. If they're really good and friendly, I'll pull it up to almost 25%. I know it probably takes a lot of effort to constantly be running around and dealing with rude people, so if they can still manage to smile and serve well, they deserve more.

Whether or not they're attractive makes little difference.

But when I was 17 or so...

[MrsLarry]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Ditto for hairdressers, they are paid not nearly enough and live off tips.

Salons in some towns near me can charge $75 - $125 for just a cut!!! Not including color or other services (for women, I mean). That seems like plenty to me!

[MrsLarry]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Of course, the phrase "giving her a tip" could also mean something completely different.

That reminds me of "perhaps play a little game called 'just the tip'?"

[osiris]

I tip pretty equally amoungst all. If service is great, mb 25%. If it sucks, then .0002%.
The standard 15-20% usually seems to apply.

In all honesty, I hate to tip.
I think that it is an insult that I have to pay someone for doing what should already be an excellent job.

But I do it, at least in the USA, and it is appreciated.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I don't understand which way you're thinking about this.

If tipping is essentially mandatory in the US, how does that improve service? She gives bad service, she'll get a tip. She gives good service, she'll get a tip. Where's the incentive?

OK, you have two waiters, both working 50 tables in a night. Waiter A is a bad waiter and gives poor service, and Waiter B is a terrific waiter and gives excellent service.

At the end of the day, Waiter A goes home with $200 and Waiter B goes home with $350.

That's the difference. Every tip adds up. Give good service to everyone and you WILL make more money.


I agree with you that the standards for who gets tips and who doesn't is a little out of whack, but for people who work positions that require tips to get by, you are being a real ass by not tipping them.

Especially hairdressers. A hairdresser at a non-fancy salon (or a chain) will make about 1/2 minimum wage without tips. My wife used to be a hairdresser on the side, and your pay (even with tips) doesn't amount to a hill of beans for the grief you have to put up with.

And I already know the response, "Don't be a hairdresser then". Well, that's what she did. But it doesn't work like that for everyone. Someone has to be a hairdresser, and that person deserves to be able to support themselves by doing it.

[Uriel]

Interesting to read all the opinions here.

My wife and I wait tables at P.F. Changs. We're both college students and it's a really flexible job with pretty good pay for the hours we work.

I don't know about restaurants in other higher cost-of-living areas (it's pretty low here), but we make $2.35 an hr + tips. So as much as a lot of people don't like to tip, I'd say it's pretty essential to us making money. However, I do agree that the idea of tipping is kind of weird and I would be all for restaurants going to higher prices, but better hourly wages. Yet, they don't so that's how I make my money .

Sadly, whoever said they don't like calculating a restaurants tips into the price of the meal. IMO, you just have to, it's part of being budget conscious. When I make a big purchase I always calculate tax or shipping. Do I hate it? YES. However, just because it's inconvenient doesn't mean it's something that you should just be allowed to bypass.

If you get bad service, I totally think you should tip poorly or not at all. I work hard at my job, I really like people and I will bend over backwards to make sure you have a good meal. I know almost every ingredient in every dish and how to work around almost every allergy known to man. I will almost never let your drink go more that half-empty before refilling it. I always bring more ice when you begin to run out with your tea. I bring extra silverware if you have dessert so you will have clean ones. I box up any food you have left over for you and put it in a nice bag, with plastic silverware and any other additional items you may need. I'm NEVER rude to a table, even when they yell. For the most part I make 20% off my sales every night. I work hard for it, but I feel like I earn it and I like that.

I do think that some people will look for anything that they can use to justify to themselves why they shouldn't have to tip. There are many variables that can go wrong in food service and sometimes, it is just not the servers fault. This is where I have learned to be careful. The bar, backwaits (similar to bus-boys) etc. get a defined amount of tips from the servers regardless of our tips. Bar gets 5% of alcohol sales and backwaits get 2.5% of food sales. So if one of those parties is responsible for your order and they screw it up, you don't screw them over at all.

As a server though, they SHOULD be communicating with you. If a dish takes too long, your server SHOULD be on the ball enough to come by and (before you've been waiting long) say "We're a little backed up right now and your food is taking a little longer than expected. I'm going to have the manager come by and talk to you to make sure you are taken care of because of that inconvenience.". I ALWAYS communicate to my tables, but don't ALWAYS assume it's the servers fault.

Bottom line, be nice and considerate to everyone you meet. It isn't your responsibility to pay a servers wages. However, I take joy in knowing that if I tip $7 at a restaurant when $5 would of been totally ok, then maybe I made someone's day at work a little better. I blow more than that on a coffee in the morning.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Wrong. Where one is expected a tip there is no real incentive. When there is no tip expected, people still provide a good service. Great service usually gets rewarded anyway.

That's what I hate about the "18% gratuity added to parties of 6 or more" - it's like a license for the wait staff to not care. For the most part, I'm easy on waiters - keep liquid in my glass.

I am getting a little annoyed lately at all the different people that seem to want tips. If you are a cashier at a restaurant that serves food over the counter, why should I tip you?

[Uriel]

I HATE the gratuity rule. We do it on parties of 8 or more. We are required by our restaurant to do it. I always feel bad for the table when I have to give them a ticket with gratuity added.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by wallinbl 

That's what I hate about the "18% gratuity added to parties of 6 or more" - it's like a license for the wait staff to not care. For the most part, I'm easy on waiters - keep liquid in my glass.

On the flip side, when you have a party of 6 or more, the bill gets pretty large, and some people have a tendency to skimp on the tip since they're already paying so much money.

(Personally, I don't like the number 18%. 18% is an above-average gratuity. The number automatically added should be no more than 15%. But I guess they suppose no one will add to the automatic gratuity even if the service is excellent.)

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

On the flip side, when you have a party of 6 or more, the bill gets pretty large, and some people have a tendency to skimp on the tip since they're already paying so much money.

This is true, unfortunately.

also, Uriel speaks the truth.

[PBG4 User]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Again. That's just patently ridiculous. The price should be the price should be the price.

I can see the tip-culture being part of an incentive to improve service, but with it being expected at that level (15-25% ), there's no real incentive to it anyway is it?

I do tip if service have been above and beyond what's expected. And only then.

When I was in Europe, the tip (10%) was built into the price. I felt the service matched the fact a tip was guaranteed though. Here in the states I reward good service with a higher tip and repeat business because if I'm paying to be served I want good service.

[IceEnclosure]

When in Rome, etc.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure 

If I traveled to another country I would find out what the custom is and tip/not tip accordingly.

Why do Europeans come to the states and tip 5% and similar. Nothing crushes a waiter who's making $3.50/hr more than getting a $5 tip on a $100 bill. Oh, except maybe a $10 tip on a $200 bill. (considering a proper tip would be about $40 for a $200 bill). The waiter tips out the bar, the busser, the foodrunner..

I agree 5% tip is bad in places that expect more. However, if the waiter is losing money on that 5%, then either the waiter is stupid, or the restaurant is stupid to the waiter.

Don't go out to eat in America if you can't afford a 15% tip, it's PART of the bill. (I never ever tip less than 15%, often upwards of 25%)

I've always thought this is stupid. It should be zero, and the price should be 15%-20% higher. Cuz it's not as if that built-in tip gets me better than average service.

There's no two ways about it. If you don't tip, you're a serious scumbag.

In many countries, tipping is not standard. And if you do tip 15-20% in those countries, it's often considered an insult. If you're going to tip in some places, it's like 50%. Otherwise it's zero.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

Sorry Glenn, but I really wish people would check snopes.com (or similar services) before posting these things. There is no evidence of any kind that the word tipping was born out of an acronym: Urban Legends Reference Pages: Etymology of Tip

I never thought that it could be anything but the way I thought it was. I was under the impression that "posh" came from an acronym too, but investigation shows otherwise. Too bad I don't have access to the OED...

On the other hand, the term "tip" HAS been adopted with the meaning I ascribed to it in many social groups, so perhaps it was a serendipitous acronym. Either way, "proper tipping" was at the very least an Edwardian nod to noblesse oblige. And Americans, often fascinated with English society, adopted it enthusiastically.

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I agree 5% tip is bad in places that expect more. However, if the waiter is losing money on that 5%, then either the waiter is stupid, or the restaurant is stupid to the waiter.


I've always thought this is stupid. It should be zero, and the price should be 15%-20% higher. Cuz it's not as if that built-in tip gets me better than average service.


In many countries, tipping is not standard. And if you do tip 15-20% in those countries, it's often considered an insult. If you're going to tip in some places, it's like 50%. Otherwise it's zero.

I thought I made it clear that I meant here in the states. I would gladly adhere to local customs when I traveled elsewhere. I would never ever want a waitstaff cursing me as I walk down the street after visiting their establishment. Happens 'round here all the time.

oh, and you've "always thought this is stupid", referring to thinking of the tip as part of the package. When you go out to eat in America, for the sake of all the front of the house staff at the restaurant, just tip. Tip. Karma and **** man.

[amazing]

Tipping is one of the facts of life. If you're gonna wig out about something, there's gotta be better things to get upset about. Just gonna give yourself indigestion every time to go out to eat.

[andi*pandi]

In a world where so much of things are fixed price (bartering is not common in america except in yard sales) it's nice to be able to choose how to reward good service, or have some kind of input about poor service. I'm not likely to talk to the manager or make a kind of fuss--but what kind of tip to leave, I think makes a statement as well. Hopefully if I leave a 10% tip the waitstaff get the message rather than just assume I'm cheap.

[Cipher13]

Originally Posted by amazing 

Tipping is one of the facts of life. If you're gonna wig out about something, there's gotta be better things to get upset about. Just gonna give yourself indigestion every time to go out to eat.

Move to Australia. There are no tipping "rules" here that don't involve cows. The only time you tip is when you're at a restaurant, and even then, you don't have to... usually people just tip because working out change is too much of a pain.

[ghporter]

The "standard of service" in eating establishments or bars is "you get what you ordered in a timely manner." If I get better than that, I want the server to know that I noticed, which should encourage him/her to do more and better for me... And as I recognize that server work is a pain and often quite difficult, I tend to be generous.

In other settings, tipping is a delicate balancing act. Go on a cruise sometime-there are pretty codified practices for who gets tipped and how much. On my last cruise our room steward was so good, we were VERY generous. Our dining room waitstaff made dining far more than just a meal, and they got generous tips as well. Heck, I'd have tipped the captain if I'd been able to figure out how-it was that good a vacation.

[mindwaves]

I personally do not like tipping. The price should be the price (tax included).

[amazing]

Originally Posted by mindwaves 

I personally do not like tipping. The price should be the price (tax included).

That's what they've started doing in France ("prix fixe.") It's only if you really like the service, received wonderful recommendations, that you tip. But you gotta know that the wait-staff are receiving better wages than $2.35/hour. The waiters over there get a living wage.

Here they don't.

So, tip!