[Powerbook]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Pyramid schemes are illegal, but you only get caught when you're stupid.

Quixtar / Amway is a pro - they've been doing it for years.
You bet their scam "business model" is tight - from a legal perspective.

Still the air is getting thinner for them. Here in old Europe the "newest" disguise for them are so-called "gifting circles" where even the faked and stupid products are discarded. You just have to find other gifting people to move up in the pyramid. One would assume that sort of scams are easier to see though, but no. People are too greedy to get some basic mathematics.

PB.

[CheesePuff]

Originally Posted by Powerbook 

Still the air is getting thinner for them. Here in old Europe the "newest" disguise for them are so-called "gifting circles" where even the faked and stupid products are discarded. You just have to find other gifting people to move up in the pyramid. One would assume that sort of scams are easier to see though, but no. People are too greedy to get some basic mathematics.

PB.

Oh no, that's over here in the U.S. too. They wanted me to gift a check of $500 to someone and when I was moved up, I would have 8 people gifting me $500 each.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

So, you post a quote basically supporting what I've been saying all along (at least as far as it relates to what I've been talking about) and I'm supposed to admit I'm mistaken because of that? While I appreciate this new, nonconfrontational approach to debate, I don't think it's going to work.

Oh, so you've been saying all along that MLM is NOT necessarily a scam just like any other business model isn't necessarily a scam?

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Why? It happens all the time. Granted, MLM is a scam and that's that, but if you think all rich people got rich because they worked harder than other people, you've got another think coming.

Gee, that's not what I see here.

Have you been saying all along that Amway and Mary Kay and Pampered Chef are not scams? Maybe I missed that.

[abe]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Uhm... yes, why not post the rest of that sentence to start with

Actually, it was a blatant cliff-hanger/teaser to get you to click on the link and read the article.

I'm glad it worked.

Now you know that the writer's stat of four out of five MLM business operations (the person who joins the MLM) compares exactly to the same statistics of business owners which use traditional business models.

In five years four out of five will be gone.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Powerbook 

Still the air is getting thinner for them. Here in old Europe the "newest" disguise for them are so-called "gifting circles" where even the faked and stupid products are discarded. You just have to find other gifting people to move up in the pyramid. One would assume that sort of scams are easier to see though, but no. People are too greedy to get some basic mathematics.

PB.

Not all traditional businesses are alike and not all MLM businesses are alike.

Buyer beware.

As I said before, if you approach starting a MLM business the same way you would start a $250,000 franchise you would investigate it and know everything possible BEFORE you invested a cent and once you did you would do EVERYTHING you could to follow the proven steps to be successful.

If you did that the odds would be in your favor.

With a franchise.

With a MLM business.

But with an MLM business your investment is much lower.

[crazycylon]

What I find interesting about all MLM's is that an unique product is usually involved that way more money will be charged for it (higher markup) because it is impossible to compare the price.

A number of years ago I did join Amyway with a friend and we thought we could make a lot of money through selling the electronics that were offered through Amymay at the time. Anyways on one device our cost was $300 and the suggested retail price was $400. Imagine my shock when I went to Costco and saw the exact same electronic device retailing there for $200.

All MLM's lead you to believe that you get the product at the best price possible because there is no middle man. Well if I look at my own Amyway example there must be large numbers of middle men because if Costco can make a profit on selling something for $200 why is the MLM distributor cost is $300 when the MLMs supposedly have buying power because of volume. One would think that with millions of supposed distributors that Amyway would have the same buying clout if not better than Costco.

The primary focus appears to be recruit, recruit and recruit. With all the levels of people who get a rider over the other people they recruited and so one the mark up on products must be incredibly high. Some many people to pay a small rider to for each network etc. Although these business are successful I believe it is not because of the superior product or service it is because the business more like a religion that focuses on recruit and recruit.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by crazycylon 

Although these business are successful I believe it is not because of the superior product or service it is because the business more like a religion that focuses on recruit and recruit.

Very true.

-t

[peeb]

Originally Posted by crazycylon 

Well if I look at my own Amyway example there must be large numbers of middle men because if Costco can make a profit on selling something for $200 why is the MLM distributor cost is $300 when the MLMs supposedly have buying power because of volume. One would think that with millions of supposed distributors that Amyway would have the same buying clout if not better than Costco.

Apart from the fact that Amway is a scam, CostCo has significantly larger volume discounts.

[abe]

Originally Posted by peeb 

Apart from the fact that Amway is a scam, CostCo has significantly larger volume discounts.

I think the people who call MLM a scam were people who tried it and coundn't do it successfully and they are to embarrassed to admity they failed at it.

It's nothing to be ashamed of. Most people can't do it.

But rather than blaming the company, just admit that you couldn't cut it.

I admit it!

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by abe 

I think the people who call MLM a scam were people who tried it and coundn't do it successfully and they are to embarrassed to admity they failed at it!

You are absolutely right.

There is nothing unethical about a business plan that is centered around people failing and making a fortune out of their misery. Is this a great country or what ?

-t

P.S. Abe, you are weird.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by abe 

I think the people who call MLM a scam were people who tried it and coundn't do it successfully and they are to embarrassed to admity they failed at it.

And if I told you I had never done it and was basing my judgment simply on objective facts, what would you say?

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by abe 

I think the people who call MLM a scam were people who tried it and coundn't do it successfully and they are to embarrassed to admity they failed at it.

I've never done it and I still think it's a scam, haha!

[abe]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

You are absolutely right.

There is nothing unethical about a business plan that is centered around people failing and making a fortune out of their misery. Is this a great country or what ?

Their business plan isn't centered around people failing any more than pet shops who used to sell pet turtles were centered around people getting salmonella poisoning and dying from handling them. It just happened.

Originally Posted by turtle777 

P.S. Abe, you are weird.

You are unable to perceive the world correctly. You are ignorant. And you don't know that you are ignorant, which is almost like a learning disability, in and of itself. You say things that don't make sense and are inaccurate and instead of striving to learn from your errors you defend them and thus entrench them. You are vindictive, petty and obsessive. You tend toward the negative and harsh criticisms. You are a troll. You aren't in control of your emotions and you are emotionally impelled to doing and saying things that force you down roads where your options are few, pre-determined and less than enviable...and you are blind to the entire process.

You call me weird?

If that means I'm different than you, I'll take that as a compliment.

Now, if you'd like to restrict your comments to the subject at hand we can continue.

Unless you want to also own up to being a masochist.

[abe]

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure 

I've never done it and I still think it's a scam, haha!

Let's see. The courts say it's legal. There are countless numbers of people who regularly buy, use and benefit from the products. And untold numbers of individuals who have followed the business plans and applied their talents, skills and hard work to their business to earn RESIDUAL six figure annual incomes.

But you have never done it and you think it's a scam.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

And if I told you I had never done it and was basing my judgment simply on objective facts, what would you say?

I'd say, show us proof.

[Chuckit]

Are you sincerely asking me to prove that a pyramid scheme is not a good business model?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Are you sincerely asking me to prove that a pyramid scheme is not a good business model?

Don't forget, it's abe. Common sense doesn't apply.

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by abe 

I'd say, show us proof.

You endorsing it is proof enough. It's gotta be crap.

-t

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

You endorsing it is proof enough. It's gotta be crap.

-t

*zing*

Funny because it's true.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Are you sincerely asking me to prove that a pyramid scheme is not a good business model?

I think SOMEONE said "MLM is a scam and that's that."

I think that's either provable or not.

Prove it.

[abe]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Don't forget, it's abe. Common sense doesn't apply.

-t

I give everyone permission to use this whenever turtle gets sassy. Just post it and then enjoy his reaction.

Just copy it and save it for the right occasion.

Turtle777,

You are unable to perceive the world correctly. You are ignorant. And you don't know that you are ignorant, which is almost like a learning disability, in and of itself. You say things that don't make sense and are inaccurate and instead of striving to learn from your errors you defend them and thus entrench them. You are vindictive, petty and obsessive. You tend toward the negative and harsh criticisms. You are a troll. You aren't in control of your emotions and you are emotionally impelled to doing and saying things that force you down roads where your options are few, pre-determined and less than enviable...and you are blind to the entire process.

You call me weird?

If that means I'm different than you, I'll take that as a compliment.

Now, if you'd like to restrict your comments to the subject at hand we can continue.

Unless you want to also own up to being a masochist.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by abe 

I think SOMEONE said "MLM is a scam and that's that."

I think that's either provable or not.

Prove it.

You know what? Proving the obvious just isn't very interesting. If the FTC issuing repeated warnings about a scheme doesn't raise red flags for you, it's pretty plain your mind is not open. I have better things to do than spend my time proving to you that the sky is blue. If you want to get involved in a bunch of pyramid schemes, man, be my guest.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Are you sincerely asking me to prove that a pyramid scheme is not a good business model?

I think Abe is really Michael Scott.

[PB2K]

just stop the

-t

habit, will ya? it's making the thread horrible

[torsoboy]

I have tried a few of these things, but my problem seems to be that I am always a late comer and stay at the bottom of the pyramid because everyone else has already tried it and made their money

For example, the only one that I put more than $20 bucks into (this was about 8 years ago) worked like this:

You (the newest recruit) pay $5 to each of the most recent 4 people before you.
They then each send you (via email) a how-to document on how to make money on the internet (it's only illegal if you aren't buying a product, lol).
You then send the MLM sheet off to everyone you know and try to get them to pay you and the previous 3 people before you $5 each with the promise of getting the how-to documents in return.

So the more people you get to sign up, the more people that will send you $5 and then they get people to sign up and each of them sends you five bucks, and then each of them gets people to sign up and they all send you $5, and then each of them gets people to sign up and they all send you $5 (so you get money four levels deep). The theory is that by the fourth level there are so many people sending $5 to you that you will be making zillions every day in your mailbox.

What I did was I asked my friends to sign up, and they all said "no", so I tried my hand at spam and I ordered 2,000,000 emails with my email asking for random people to sign up.. this cost me about $190 to send the spam. The reward for my effort (and my $210 investment) was that I got one five dollar bill in my mailbox a few weeks later.

That was my last attempt at one of these things, but my mom and dad never seem to tire of this stuff. Every year they tend to try a different one.

[Cold Warrior]

And with all that time and money wasted on scams, you could have done real work and made 10 times as much.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by PB2K 

just stop the

-t

habit, will ya? it's making the thread horrible

Request denied.

Thanks for playing.

-t