[xi_hyperon]

...and are about to go off the edge? The disturbing thing to me is how the 18 month downward spiral in the Middle East is accelerating. Having cornered Arafat in his compound, it looks to me as though the Israelis have painted both themselves and the Palestinians into a corner. Anyone here with opinions on where this can go?

[ringo]

[TNproud2b]

I don't even care what they do to each other.


Maybe they should re-examine their government's policies on how they deal with the rest of the world. Sound familiar?

[MindFad]

Religion is truly an amazing thing. This is just another stick in the anthill, and I can't wait to see how things turn out. Sit back and enjoy this little drama that is our human race. On CNN, of course.

Sorry to seem so pessimistic, but you just stop caring and paying attention after awhile.

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: MindFad ]

[daimoni]

.

[iDriveX]

You know, I don't know all the details so I won't pretend to, but it seems like the Palesitinians are engaging in Terrorism to instill fear in the Israelies. This may just be the American press though. But if this is the case, I think that the Israelies haven't done enough. If the palestinians are commiting terroristic acts on Israel with the backing of their own government, the Israelies should put an end to that government and help to build a new one...but I don't know much.

[RWoelk]

CNN? Oh, you mean the Clinton News Network... NOT! Try fair and balanced for a change FOX News.

I am continually amazed at the extraordinary restraint Israel demonstrates year after year faced with this insidious onslaught of terror, and a little embarrassed that our esteemed Secretary of State is asking for more.

[BTP]

Have they reached the precipice?(of escalatiing into a war) I don't think so, there have been many tense moments such as this over the last 3 decades in this conflict. Even more if you count all Arab-Israeli conflicts.

What is interesting is the whole situation, which I followed, but only recently read enough to truly have some grasp on the situation, is how far Arafat has come on almost nothing. I won't go into history(too much), but he led the PLO and had nothing to go on for years. What set them apart was they killed people outside thier conflict. There was a great quote but the Kurdish leader, Massoud Barzani, said the reason the world was paying attention to the PLO and not the Kurds, was theat the Kurds only killed their enemies. Arafat has used killing to achieve his goals, and so far, it is working. The biggest problem he has is peace. I am not saying he doesn't want it, but I am saying it is a big problem for him. What is uniting his people behind his is that there is someone else (Israel) to focus on. If that were to go away, so would his power. They have been strullging so long, they only know struggle. What will happen when their is a Palentinian state and they have to act like a country? That will be interesting to see.

Recall, that Araft tried to use the PLO to over throw Jordan and when that failed (he had to flee Amman dressed as a Muslim woman), he set his sights on Lebannon. He was like a parasite looking for a host, even if it was his Arab brothers. What it seems like, is that if they weren't fighting a non-arab, they fight each other. Tribalism has not been relegated to millenia ago, but that is another story.

And TNproud2B, we should care about the world around us. I don't know everything (even if I come off as I think I do) but I think that if the Middle East conflict never happened, I would guess the World Trade Centers would still be standing. The 282 dead Marines in Beirut would not have been blown up. Etc, etc. The hard part is that there is no way to know what we should be involved in and what we shouldn't. Sure, everyone wants to play MMQB and they are always right, but that never helps knowing after the fact, especially when the repercussions are felt or not even known for years.

Interesting to note that the Kurds number about 25 million, they are mostly Sunni Muslim and they are located in Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria. Unlike the Palentinians, they have been seeking a homeland for centuries. By contrast, there are 4 million Palestinians, who lack a county due to their leaders failure to represent their people after France and Britan withdrew the Middle East following WWI *AND* they also got screwed by some of the other Arab states that were formed at the time. So it is interesting, that most of you know little, if anything, about the Kurds, but are quite familiar with the PLO.

So I scratch my head in wonderment when I read where Arab brothers in arms talk about the 'brutal opression' of the Palestinian people, but I have yet to hear them mention the Kurds and how they are being killed off by Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria. They wrap themselves up in righteousness when it suits them.

So back to are they on the brink? I say no for several reasons; it has been this tense before, none of the Arab states will come to his aid, Israel will not likely re-occupy the PLO governed territories and there is not much chance Israel will harm Arafat.

This is a giant mess, with ego, religion and a feud mentality. I often wonder the amazing things that technology brings and having an open mind, I think there is no limit. But when It comes to this issue, I cannot see how this can be resolved, which explains why I am not mediating.

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: BTP ]

[fobside]

this is nothing new really. theres always been this conflict and it wont ever be resolved.

[xi_hyperon]

BTP, good post, thanks for the insight. I think you are right- we should care what happens there as it indirectly affects the turn of events here in the U.S. at times. For that reason, I hope the opinion that they haven't reached the edge is the right one. Sometimes I wonder though, as the pressure on Sharon from within to do something to end the conflict once and for all must be great. Also, your point about the Kurds is a good one and gives me the impression that the motivations of the middle eastern nations are not always what they seem to be.

[Sealobo]

War and conflicts are so outdated~

Boring!

Come to think of it... where do they get all those guns and bullets? Now i remember... a good portion of those are made by western developed countries such as Canada (no kidding... check out the Canadian export and you'll find out how many weapons they're exporting!). Not to mention the US... they enjoy seeing people fighting around the globe so that they can export more guns and have an excuse to police around the 7 seas. The US has absolutely no problem about war, as long as the battle field ain't on the US soil.

What a shame.

[TNproud2b]

Originally posted by sealobo:
<STRONG>War and conflicts are so outdated~
The US has absolutely no problem about war, as long as the battle field ain't on the US soil.

What a shame.</STRONG>

We aren't the world's policeman. It's YOUR country's turn to do it.

How will YOUR country handle the situation?

[Sealobo]

Originally posted by TNproud2b:
<STRONG>


We aren't the world's policeman. It's YOUR country's turn to do it.

How will YOUR country handle the situation?</STRONG>

I don't know. but if i gotta choose, i won't export any weapon to these countries. In fact, all military production should be state-owned so that the black market situation could be eliminated.

Those poor little countries are not capable of mass producing serious weapon on their own. The US is powerful enough to influence every other capable countries not to export military supply to them. Yeah it's a lot of work but it's far from impossible.

I have no problem seeing the US fleets everywhere, i mean, they are the uno superpower on earth right now, they have all the say anyway.

By the way, the US didn't really give a damn about the world events until the pearl harbour incident. Sure the Japanese attack was a low blow, but it also gave the US a great opportunity to test their A-Bomb and to secure a military checkpoint in the Asia Pacific region in the long run. It's all about strategy and timing... same thing goes to the middle east. Sooner or later the US will be everywhere. Wait, they're already everywhere

[TNproud2b]

Oh, OK.

I knew somehow this would all be the fault of the US.


No sense blaming all the countries that sit on their hands and do absolutely nothing.

It's real easy to tell others what they are doing wrong - when you aren't doing anything at all.

[Sealobo]

Originally posted by TNproud2b:
<STRONG>Oh, OK.

I knew somehow this would all be the fault of the US.

.</STRONG>

O well... i didn't say that the US is wrong. In fact from an economical point of view they are doing the absolutely right thing. I mean, the demand is being met by their supply, it's just an equilibrium. IF they're not selling, somebody else is going to do it anyway.

BUT, the point is, the US didn't choose to do the best for the world as a whole, they've choice to do the best for their own. Which is then again, it's nothing wrong for the best interest of their own country and people. However, since they're policing around the world, there is an issue of double standard.

Please don't say that the US isn't the "international police", check out the prime example of the Beijing-Taiwan issue, it's too obvious.

<STRONG>
No sense blaming all the countries that sit on their hands and do absolutely nothing.

It's real easy to tell others what they are doing wrong - when you aren't doing anything at all.
</STRONG>

O... you can see some other nations can be as effective as the US in terms of dealing with international affair? Even the whole european continent can't fight the US right now in terms of almost everything. The original idea of the standardized EURO currency is to fight against the US$. Check out the the forex and you will know the US has won the battle hands down.

[Millennium]

I really hope they haven't.

The reasoning behind this is twofold. One, Israel is one of the closest allies of the US. If this goes into a war, we have basically no choice but to intervene on their side. About the only way out of that would be the "we refuse to participate in genocide" defense, but I doubt the Bush Administration would be smart enough to figure that one out.

And yeah, I do mean genocide. Because if this does go into a war, either the Israelis or the Palestinians are going to be completely wiped off of the face of the planet. Sharon actively wants genocide in this case, and while Arafat himself doesn't, enough of his lackeys do that it won't make that much difference, given that he can barely control them as it is and certainly won't be able to if this descends into war. Certainly both sides will try. The Israelis will probably succeed, given their highly-trained military, better numbers, and better weaponry. This will throw any Muslim nation with even the slightest grudge against Israel into the fray, with the convenient excuse of "avenging the Palestinians".

Once it gets to that point, there are only three possibilities, and none are palatable. In the first, Israel's allies (i.e. us) and the Muslim nations' allies all get dragged in, and we essentially have World War III on our hands. But if no one comes to stand behind Israel, they'll almost certainly whip out the nukes "in an act of self-preservation". That's the second possibility. The third, if that fails, is another genocide: Israel is strong, but it couldn't stand up to that much might sent against it, and Israel would join the Palestinians as a historical footnote.

Those are our choices. And it's why this cannot be allowed to escalate into a war.

And to start that, both leaders should be removed from power. Sharon is a monster, and the blame for actually starting this latest round can be laid pretty squarely at his feet, with his deliberate baiting of the Palestinians. But Arafat is a fool, and only partially for rising to the bait. Prior to that baiting, he had his chance to get everything he wanted (the only exception being East Jerusalem, and he'd even managed to secure guaranteed access to that part of the city), and he turned it down. And the leader who had offered him so much has been voted out of power because of it; Arafat will never get that chance again. No politician would dare offer him that much now, after seeing what happened to Barak (who became so despised that people not only voted him out of power, but actually preffered Ariel Sharon, a man barred for life from being Minister of Defense for his atrocities, to him).

[DigitalEl]

Fox News... Balanced?

CNN = Clinton News Network?

Conservatives, let it go. Your guy's in now. Move on.

[danbrew]

I suppose the US could get into the stick selling market - god knows they'd use sticks if they didn't have guns.

What scares the hell out of me is how quickly things have spiriled from "ok relations" to the fact that Israel now has tanks outside of Arafat's office. It does not look like the restraint and moderation we have seen displayed by Israel in the past is in play now.

Think what will happen when the IDF kills Arafat? Boom, we've got a martyr and another 100-years of fighting. How soon do you think either side will get tired of their sons and daugthers being killed?

And then what will happen?

[fletch521]

All you have to do is make a comment about being "fair and balanced" and people think that your a Conservative.

Fletch

p.s.
To Paul, John, Theodore, Thomas, Robert, Jacob , Joseph, George, Richard, Robert and Wyatt Thanks.

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: fletch521 ]

[johnny_hotrod]

[/QB][/QUOTE]
countries such as Canada (no kidding... check out the Canadian export and you'll find out how many weapons they're exporting!). Not to mention the US... they enjoy seeing people fighting around the globe so that they can export more guns and have an excuse to police around the 7 seas. The US has absolutely no problem about war, as long as the battle field ain't on the US soil.

What a shame.[/QB][/QUOTE]

It's a shame that you can't contribute to an article without spreading misinformation.

Canada as a major weapons exporter???????? News to me! We can't even find suppliers to supply our own millitary or police forces. I remember seeing an article talking about this issue, it was about how canada had three plants up-and-running. Any ways, here is an article on who actually does support the small arms trade:
http://www.sciam.com/2000/0600issue/0600boutwell.html

Quote from it:
We have few data on the quantity or dollar value of small arms sold by other manufacturers. Based on existing weapons inventories of military and police forces around the world, though, certain major suppliers can be identified: Russia (maker of the AK-47 assault rifle and its derivative, the AK-74), China (maker of an AK-47 look-alike known as the Type 56 rifle), Belgium (FAL assault rifle), Germany (G3 rifle), the U.S. (M16 rifle) and Israel (Uzi submachine gun).

[Sealobo]

Originally posted by johnny_hotrod:
countries such as Canada (no kidding... check out the Canadian export and you'll find out how many weapons they're exporting!). Not to mention the US... they enjoy seeing people fighting around the globe so that they can export more guns and have an excuse to police around the 7 seas. The US has absolutely no problem about war, as long as the battle field ain't on the US soil.

What a shame.

It's a shame that you can't contribute to an article without spreading misinformation.

Canada as a major weapons exporter???????? News to me! We can't even find suppliers to supply our own millitary or police forces. I remember seeing an article talking about this issue, it was about how canada had three plants up-and-running. Any ways, here is an article on who actually does support the small arms trade:
http://www.sciam.com/2000/0600issue/0600boutwell.html

Quote from it:
We have few data on the quantity or dollar value of small arms sold by other manufacturers. Based on existing weapons inventories of military and police forces around the world, though, certain major suppliers can be identified: Russia (maker of the AK-47 assault rifle and its derivative, the AK-74), China (maker of an AK-47 look-alike known as the Type 56 rifle), Belgium (FAL assault rifle), Germany (G3 rifle), the U.S. (M16 rifle) and Israel (Uzi submachine gun).[/QB]

Check this out my friend:

http://www.ploughshares.ca/content/C...portslist.html

I specialized in the International Trade affair at the University of Toronto so please don't aruge with me on this matter.

Few data? that's totally BS. Canada does not need a military force anyway... there fore they export most of the Weapon they made for $$$. I mean, the US will take care of everything in case if anything happens.

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: sealobo ]

[BTP]

Originally posted by sealobo:
<STRONG>
Come to think of it... where do they get all those guns and bullets? Now i remember... a good portion of those are made by western developed countries such as Canada (no kidding... check out the Canadian export and you'll find out how many weapons they're exporting!). Not to mention the US... they enjoy seeing people fighting around the globe so that they can export more guns and have an excuse to police around the 7 seas.
What a shame.</STRONG>

Actually, the arms come mostly from Iran today, though you are correct that at one time they did have some American made weapons. But you failed to say how they got them. We supply Saudi Arabia with aramaments and they inturn sold/gave them to the PLO. Anyway, that was in the early 80's and today much of the armaments come from Iran, Egypt and the Far East. It seems that finding weapons is not hard, especially when you have the money. Recall the ship Israel intercepted this past January that was laden with weapons? That was full of Iranian weaponry, Katyusha rockets, mortars, machie gus, etc., you get the idea.

The world policeman arguement is interesting as many see it as black or white, we do it or we don't. We all live in the world and if a neighbor starts a fire and it spreads and burns us, we would have done better to solve the problem early on, and not deal with the symptoms later on.

[Sealobo]

By the way, i didn't say that the Canadian is the MAJOR exporter. i just took it as an example. Don't be so sensitive Canadian boy.

Also, the US re-export a good portion of Canadian-made weapons, that's a fact. And they're going middle east.

[TNproud2b]

nobody needs a military force except the US.

we got yer back, homies.

[BTP]

Originally posted by sealobo:
<STRONG>
By the way, the US didn't really give a damn about the world events until the pearl harbour incident. Sure the Japanese attack was a low blow, but it also gave the US a great opportunity to test their A-Bomb and to secure a military checkpoint in the Asia Pacific region in the long run. It's all about strategy and timing... same thing goes to the middle east. Sooner or later the US will be everywhere. Wait, they're already everywhere </STRONG>

Your understanding of US history is dubious at best. It sounds like you learned it from cartoons. As for the US "giving a damn about world events", you should know that at that time the US was not a world power, not an economic power and certainly was no military power, in fact we were about 13th, according to military power. But at least one person saw that Pearl Harbor was a blunder: "I fear that we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve" -Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto December 7th 1941.

You have taken an interesting viewpoint, however incorrect your conclusion. The US doesn't sell arms to counties only so we can go in and be policemen. That might be nice to say, but sprinkle a little logic on that and you will see it sounds more like teen angst rebellion than a well thought out statement.

[NosniboR80]

Originally posted by Millennium:

Once it gets to that point, there are only three possibilities, and none are palatable. In the first, Israel's allies (i.e. us) and the Muslim nations' allies all get dragged in, and we essentially have World War III on our hands. But if no one comes to stand behind Israel, they'll almost certainly whip out the nukes "in an act of self-preservation". That's the second possibility. The third, if that fails, is another genocide: Israel is strong, but it couldn't stand up to that much might sent against it, and Israel would join the Palestinians as a historical footnote.

Those are our choices. And it's why this cannot be allowed to escalate into a war.

And the leader who had offered him so much has been voted out of power because of it; Arafat will never get that chance again. No politician would dare offer him that much now, after seeing what happened to Barak (who became so despised that people not only voted him out of power, but actually preffered Ariel Sharon, a man barred for life from being Minister of Defense for his atrocities, to him).[/QB]

The first possibility of a WW3 is highly unlikely. The arab nations do not have allies that wish to fight the U.S., unless you are referring to terrorists (but we are already at war with them ).

The second and third possibilities are almost the same scenario, but with different actions on the part of Israel. But I think you are wrong to assume that it couldn't handle itself in an war with the Arab nations. It has protected itself before, and that was when it was only 20 something years old, in the 1970's. The Israelis have the single most effective military and intelligence agency in the world. Sure, the US beats them, but that's because we are just bigger. Every single male Israeli spends at least a year in the military.

So, what am I saying, or trying to say?

I feel like they are on the brink of something, but it isn't a real war. Maybe its just because I haven't been paying attention to world politics long enough to know that it always feels like this when the Middle East escalates. Arafat is well known for his ability to rise above situations that others think he has lost (that by no stretch of the imagination means that he can actually solve something).

About Sharon, his election signaled mostly just a shift in the populace interested in trying something different. The peaceful negotiations hadn't gone anywhere (and I think that a bunch of bombers had gotten them right before the elections), so they went with a Rumsfeld type. The problem with taking Arafat out of power is that he is the only person even acting like constructive negotiations are useful. The rest of the Palestinians are not organized or even educated to the Israeli needs.

The situation is nightmarish. That's part of why many Christians believe the verse (I can't remember what it is) that indicates that a resolution between the Israelis and the Palestinians will be a fulfillment of an end-time prophecy. Basically, when hell freezes over, they'll get a long.

[Sealobo]

Originally posted by BTP:
<STRONG>

Your understanding of US history is dubious at best. It sounds like you learned it from cartoons. As for the US "giving a damn about world events", you should know that at that time the US was not a world power, not an economic power and certainly was no military power, in fact we were about 13th, according to military power. But at least one person saw that Pearl Harbor was a blunder: "I fear that we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve" -Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto December 7th 1941.
</STRONG>

The pre-WWII US military policy is quite simple: don't bother us because we want to focus in our own economy. There really didn't give a damn. The logic is simple, it's a good opportunity to get ahead all those european countries because they're at war, at the same time their economies suffer. It's that simple.

The Japanese was plain stupid to bomb the US. They could have conquered the Asia-Pacific region.

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: sealobo ]

[fearman111]

The Palestine/Israel thing, I fear, can only end in genocide. Neither side can trust the other, Israel is mighty p!ssed off at the suicide bombings, and Arafat can't (or maybe won't?) stop it.

I don't think that the Palestinians have the hardware to wipe out Israel, so I guess it continues until they push Israel into full-on war.

Now, if enough of the Arab states gang up on Israel (and by extension, the US), that's when it gets really interesting. Heck, the US might p!ss enough off if they're serious about dealing with Iraq.

fm111

[BTP]

Originally posted by sealobo:
<STRONG>

Check this out my friend:

http://www.ploughshares.ca/content/C...portslist.html

I specialized in the International Trade affair at the University of Toronto so please don't aruge with me on this matter.
</STRONG>

I won't. But after reading the exports, I don't see any exported to the PLO, nor do I see guns, bombs and the like being exported to the Middle East. There are only 2 shipments in 2000 of guns, one to Denmark and one to the UK. For the most part, it looks like they make systems mostly. Is there some other link I need to look at were Canada is shipping arms to the PLO?

[Sealobo]

Originally posted by BTP:
<STRONG>Is there some other link I need to look at were Canada is shipping arms to the PLO?</STRONG>

There is a government website:
http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/~eicb/e...lit_tech-e.htm

I think this is far off-topic... Anyway, my original point is, Canada is one of many countries who are involved in military in the trading sector. It's kinda low profile so nobody really notice.

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: sealobo ]

[BTP]

Originally posted by sealobo:
<STRONG>

The pre-WWII US military policy is quite simple: don't bother us because we want to focus in our own economy. There really didn't give a damn. The logic is simple, it's a good opportunity to get ahead all those european countries because they're at war, at the same time their economies suffer. It's that simple.
[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: sealobo ]</STRONG>

Wow. I don't know where to begin. If your post were a house, I'd recommend knocking it down and starting again, since there is so much more wrong with it that right. And it would be easier to start from scratch.

I'd correct your fantasy version of US/World history for the early 20th century, but we have no common frame of reference to work from.

Anyway if you want to discuss in earnest, start a thread. This has gone off topic enough.

[spb]

us army is more like a military farce...

[fletch521]

Originally posted by sealobo:
<STRONG>

The pre-WWII US military policy is quite simple: don't bother us...

...The Japanese was plain stupid to bomb the US. They could have conquered the Asia-Pacific region.

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: sealobo ]</STRONG>

The Japanese bombed the USA because of our policy of assisting the Chinese against the Japanese invasion of their country! The Oil and Steel embargo and AVG are a few examples.

Fletch

[BTP]

Originally posted by sealobo:
<STRONG>

There is a government website:
http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/~eicb/e...lit_tech-e.htm

I think this is far off-topic... Anyway, my original point is, Canada is one of many countries who are involved in military in the trading sector. It's kinda low profile so nobody really notice.

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: sealobo ]</STRONG>

Ah ok, that point was not made clear. I was extremely sure that Canada was not supplying arms to the PLO. First because I know where they get them from now, it is easier to get them 'locally' and with support from the local Arab countries and finally, Canada doesn't make the arms they want.

I did read the 2000 exports PDF and found that they export almost no arms to the Middle East, with the exception of ammunition to Oman and amunition components to Egypt, that's about as close as it comes.

[BTP]

Originally posted by spb:
<STRONG>us army is more like a military farce... </STRONG>

But we sure kicked your ass out of this country.

This is an unusual comment from you..

Parents not pay enough attention to you as a child? Seeking recognition online. I recognize that you are an ass. Ok? Now you can go away.

[argod]

sealobo, BTP:

Here is link on Pearl Harbor and FDR http://www.disinfo.com/pages/article/id1488/pg1/

[Sealobo]

Originally posted by BTP:
<STRONG>
Anyway if you want to discuss in earnest, start a thread. This has gone off topic enough.</STRONG>

It's OK man... to be honest i don't know THAT much of the US history (even though it's kinda short), i only know the economics aspect. Also, that "House" was my conclusion/opinion and i don't expect anyone to agree with it.

[clRagnarok]

uh, remember in the 60's when all the arab nations did gang up on israel, and israel ended up with twice the land they started with...

seriously, this thing is just a way for us to fight iraq again. the palestinians are going to get into such a jam that they can't do anything, so iraq will come in and help. as soon as they launch one scud at israel, we'll be on iraq like clinton on an intern.

--chris

p.s. i like clinton

[Sealobo]

Originally posted by BTP:
<STRONG>
I did read the 2000 exports PDF and found that they export almost no arms to the Middle East, with the exception of ammunition to Oman and amunition components to Egypt, that's about as close as it comes.</STRONG>

You never know what they're gonna do with the goods. Re-export of military goods is very common because those are good for easy mark up. Canada wouldn't sell these goods to the "bad countries" due to various reason, but there is little agreement in terms of re-export. It's also tough to regulate.

[BTP]

I just learned a bit more about the terrorist groups that Israel faces, and Hamas are a nice bunch.

I was reading on their website what their ideology is. It is really quite simple, but will always provide a destabilizing factor in the Middle East. They are simply committed to removing/killing all Israelis and taking over Israel.

You can go read it for yourself, I will not post a link to their website. If you want to read it, just use google, it'll take a few extra seconds.

[BTP]

Originally posted by sealobo:
<STRONG>

You never know what they're gonna do with the goods. Re-export of military goods is very common because those are good for easy mark up. Canada wouldn't sell these goods to the "bad countries" due to various reason, but there is little agreement in terms of re-export. It's also tough to regulate.</STRONG>

Very true, but for the reasons I mentioned, the PLO is not getting arms from Canada, even my re-export. Much of the exports are military in nature, but not weapons. For the arms bazzar for the PLO it is North Korea and Iran.

[Sealobo]

i guess it will never end until one side is being totally wiped out by the other...

those people sure are missing out a lot of great stuff in life... they've spent too much time hurting themselves.

btw, this look funny to me, check it out... Apple's website at Israel.
http://www.yeda.co.il/

So "Yeda" means Apple in their language?

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: sealobo ]

[fletch521]

Originally posted by danbrew:
<STRONG>
Think what will happen when the IDF kills Arafat? Boom, we've got a martyr and another 100-years of fighting. How soon do you think either side will get tired of their sons and daugthers being killed?

And then what will happen?</STRONG>

The only good martyr is a dead martyr.

Fletch

[johnny_hotrod]

Originally posted by sealobo:
<STRONG>By the way, i didn't say that the Canadian is the MAJOR exporter. i just took it as an example. Don't be so sensitive Canadian boy.

Also, the US re-export a good portion of Canadian-made weapons, that's a fact. And they're going middle east.</STRONG>

I'm not getting insensetive, I just hate it when people post opinions then back it up with data from special interest groups. Canada is by no means a major producer of weapons in the world, and I find it completely stupid that you would use us as an example.

What's next??? sealobo discussing how Greenland is a major producer of heroin...well not a major producer...ok, it was just an example...

Canadian Boy

[Sealobo]

Originally posted by johnny_hotrod:
<STRONG>

I'm not getting insensetive, I just hate it when people post opinions then back it up with data from special interest groups. Canada is by no means a major producer of weapons in the world, and I find it completely stupid that you would use us as an example.

What's next??? sealobo discussing how Greenland is a major producer of heroin...well not a major producer...ok, it was just an example...

Canadian Boy</STRONG>

Excuse me... but are you blinded or something? This is what i wrote, please read it carefully if your eyes still work:

"... a good portion of those are made by western developed countries such as Canada (no kidding... check out the Canadian export and you'll find out how many weapons they're exporting!). Not to mention the US..."

It's ok if you've found my example on Canada stupid, because I found your counter-example extremely stupid too and it's nothing like what i said about Canada.

You should be happy about someone mentioning about Canada man... since nobody would really talk about Canada when the US is also in the topic.

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: sealobo ]

[vmarks]

Originally posted by sealobo:
<STRONG>

btw, this look funny to me, check it out... Apple's website at Israel.
http://www.yeda.co.il/

So "Yeda" means Apple in their language?

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: sealobo ]</STRONG>

Actually, no.
Yeda means knowledge.
Tapuach means apple in Hebrew.

[The Mouth Of William Burroughs]

Political conflicts are merely surfaced manifestations. If conflicts arise you may certain powers intend to keep this conflict under operation since they hope to profit from the situation.

To concern yourself with surface political conflicts is to make the mistake of the bull in the ring, you are charging the cloth. That is what politics is for, to teach you the cloth. Just as the bullfighter teaches the bull, teaches him to follow, obey the cloth.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally posted by The Mouth Of William Burroughs:
<STRONG>Political conflicts are merely surfaced manifestations. If conflicts arise you may certain powers intend to keep this conflict under operation since they hope to profit from the situation.

To concern yourself with surface political conflicts is to make the mistake of the bull in the ring, you are charging the cloth. That is what politics is for, to teach you the cloth. Just as the bullfighter teaches the bull, teaches him to follow, obey the cloth.</STRONG>

Politics is one aspect and it does serve well to hide motivations, which is what BTP was getting at earlier. As for the root of the problem, in this case it's religion.

[The Mouth Of William Burroughs]

Originally posted by xi_hyperon:
<STRONG>

Politics is one aspect and it does serve well to hide motivations, which is what BTP was getting at earlier. As for the root of the problem, in this case it's religion.</STRONG>

No, "They" are not God or super technicians from outer space. Just technicians operating with well-known equipment and using techniques that can be duplicated by anyone else who can buy and operate this equipment.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally posted by The Mouth Of William Burroughs:
<STRONG>

No, "They" are not God or super technicians from outer space. Just technicians operating with well-known equipment and using techniques that can be duplicated by anyone else who can buy and operate this equipment.</STRONG>

You and iBong should get together, you both are equally incoherent. That is, if you two are not the same person.