[olePigeon]

I hate it when I buy a cell phone and I accidently get a paper novel.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Just so we're clear, here are the relative costs of getting an unsubsidized Nexus One to use with T-Mobile and getting a subsidized Nexus One to use with T-Mobile.

Subsidized
Phone: $179
Plan: $79.99 per month for 24 months
Total for two years of service: $2098.76

Unsubsidized
Phone: $529
Plan: $59.99 per month with no contract
Total for two years of service: $1968.76
Break-even point where the extra cost of the unsubsidized phone is paid for by the savings on the cheaper plan: 17.5 months.

Link to T-Mobile's contract-free plans: Unsupported Browser

Plus, some folks who buy the phone and subsidized service will not realize they can call T-Mobile and change their plan after the contract is up. Since I doubt T-Mobile will move them automatically, that's an extra $20/mo that these folks are paying just because they aren't paying attention.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I hate it when I buy a cell phone and I accidently get a paper novel.

I bought a cell phone one time, and it ended up really being a box of used needles from the local clinic. Boy, was I embarrassed. And bleeding.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by osiris 

I bought a cell phone one time, and it ended up really being a box of used needles from the local clinic. Boy, was I embarrassed. And bleeding.

You musta been red.

[starman]

Who do you call if there's something wrong with the phone? Google? Good luck with that.

[Eriamjh]

Complaints are coming in about the phone and who really supports it.

Google Faces Deluge of Nexus One Complaints - PC World

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by starman 

Who do you call if there's something wrong with the phone?

Google Voice ?

Oh, wait, nevermind

-t

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Just so we're clear, here are the relative costs of getting an unsubsidized Nexus One to use with T-Mobile and getting a subsidized Nexus One to use with T-Mobile.

Subsidized
Phone: $179
Plan: $79.99 per month for 24 months
Total for two years of service: $2098.76

Unsubsidized
Phone: $529
Plan: $59.99 per month with no contract
Total for two years of service: $1968.76
Break-even point where the extra cost of the unsubsidized phone is paid for by the savings on the cheaper plan: 17.5 months.

Link to T-Mobile's contract-free plans: Unsupported Browser

Yeah, if you subtract the $480 you save on the plan, if you stay on it for two years it's like you got the phone for $50 subsidized. Definitely a good deal. And you have the freedom of being without a contract, and you can take it overseas and use a local SIM without having to unlock it... I really hope this catches on.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Just so we're clear, here are the relative costs of getting an unsubsidized Nexus One to use with T-Mobile and getting a subsidized Nexus One to use with T-Mobile.

Subsidized
Phone: $179
Plan: $79.99 per month for 24 months
Total for two years of service: $2098.76

Unsubsidized
Phone: $529
Plan: $59.99 per month with no contract
Total for two years of service: $1968.76
Break-even point where the extra cost of the unsubsidized phone is paid for by the savings on the cheaper plan: 17.5 months.

Link to T-Mobile's contract-free plans: Unsupported Browser

Can't you get the $59.99 plan with the subsidized phone?

[CharlesS]

No, because the extra $20 per month is what pays for the subsidy (and a little extra on top for T-Mo to fill its pockets with).

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by mduell 

What model? The 81xx, 82xx, 88xx, 89xx, and 9700 from Tmo all support wifi. They even support UMA so you can make wifi calls from anywhere without roaming charges.

It's an 8820, and she has the UMA calling feature on her plan. Works fine. The phone will not send/receive data over Wifi, however. T-Mobile seems to admit to having shut this part off because we don't pay for the data plan.

[CharlesS]

How could they just shut that off though? If it's Wi-Fi, it's not going through T-Mobile's network. If it was working over Wi-Fi before, I don't see how they could suddenly make it stop without pushing a firmware update or something.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Can't you get the $59.99 plan with the subsidized phone?

No, getting the subsidized phone requires you to sign up for the more expenssive contract. That's how they're able to subsidize the phone without going out of business.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

How could they just shut that off though? If it's Wi-Fi, it's not going through T-Mobile's network. If it was working over Wi-Fi before, I don't see how they could suddenly make it stop without pushing a firmware update or something.

That firmware might have been preloaded when they purchased the handset from T-Mobile.

-t

[imitchellg5]

So, when's the Nexus Two come out?

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

That firmware might have been preloaded when they purchased the handset from T-Mobile.

-t

If that were the case, I would expect Wi-Fi never to have worked in the first place, no?

[Sealobo]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

So, when's the Nexus Two come out?

when Google come up with a good way to deal with the after-sale hassles.

I wonder about the current return policy.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

If that were the case, I would expect Wi-Fi never to have worked in the first place, no?

Right. I must have missed the part where the OP stated that.

-t

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

If that were the case, I would expect Wi-Fi never to have worked in the first place, no?

Not if the firmware merely gave T-Mobile the ability to enable and disable the WiFi...

[CharlesS]

... which seems somewhat far-fetched to me.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

... which seems somewhat far-fetched to me.

The a cell phone company would preload the handsets that they sell with firmware that lets them enable and disable features remotely? I think that seems quite likely, actually. They definitely will use software to cripple their handsets like the various bluetooth profiles.

[CharlesS]

Yeah, but they do that out of the box. They don't put a trigger in there so that the phone originally has a full Bluetooth profile and then turn parts of it off randomly in the middle of your contract, Verizon/Apple/whomever just ship the phone from the factory with an already crippled Bluetooth profile.

Bottom line is, I'm going to need to see some evidence before I'll buy this particular assumption.

[nonhuman]

Sure, I wouldn't make the claim that this is definitely what happened. But based on the information we've been given I don't really see any other possible explanation.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

If that were the case, I would expect Wi-Fi never to have worked in the first place, no?

I tried to find that statement, but I couldn't.

Here's the OP's first statement regarding this.

Originally Posted by wallinbl 

My wife. She has a Blackberry that does WiFi, but T-Mobile disabled WiFi on it because she doesn't pay for their data plan. I don't understand why they have to be such dicks about it, especially since we it was not subsidized (we are month to month with them; no contract).

Where did wallinbl say that WiFi used to work for his wife, and then stopped working ?
It sounded to me it never worked out of the box.

-t

[CharlesS]

^ The second sentence of that post: "She has a BlackBerry that does WiFi." If T-Mo is advertising that you can browse the network using Wi-Fi with that phone, then it's got to have that feature coming from the factory.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

^ The second sentence of that post: "She has a BlackBerry that does WiFi." If T-Mo is advertising that you can browse the network using Wi-Fi with that phone, then it's got to have that feature coming from the factory.

That doesn't mean it ever worked on that particular unit however.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

^ The second sentence of that post: "She has a BlackBerry that does WiFi." If T-Mo is advertising that you can browse the network using Wi-Fi with that phone, then it's got to have that feature coming from the factory.

I'm pretty sure this just means "she has a BlackBerry that has WiFi capabilities, according to the mfg. specs".

-t

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

That doesn't mean it ever worked on that particular unit however.

That is correct, but if she just picked it up at the store, it likely had the same capabilities as every other phone of the same model that T-Mobile stocked. I checked T-Mo's web site, and they seem to be advertising Wi-Fi capability on most of their BlackBerry models, so they can't be doing a blanket disable of Wi-Fi on them à la Verizon, so the only possibilities I can come up with are:

1. T-Mobile has a special stock of models of each phone that they make sure to give to customers who don't have data plans.

2. T-Mobile reps do something special to it at sign-up time to make sure Wi-Fi doesn't work, or:

3. Your wife's device is defective and the CS reps don't know what Wi-Fi is since it's not on their script.

I'm leaning toward No. 3 myself...

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

I checked T-Mo's web site, and they seem to be advertising Wi-Fi capability on most of their BlackBerry models, so they can't be doing a blanket disable of Wi-Fi on them à la Verizon.

You give T-Mobile a lot of credit.

What makes you so certain they wouldn't pull a "Verizon" on their customers ?

-t

[CharlesS]

Because historically, they have been the best of all the four national carriers at not doing that sort of thing. Of course, I understand that it's possible that could change, but it's going to take more than just one person's anecdotal evidence to convince me of that.

[mduell]

Whoa, false dichotomy. A carrier can modify a firmware so wifi doesn't work if you don't have a data plan. The phone has a wifi radio, and it's enabled if you pay for a data plan. When you remove the data plan from your account, the wifi is disabled. This doesn't mean the wifi is broken or she got a special unit.

[turtle777]

Of course, but Charles thinks T-Mobile wouldn't do that.

That kind of behavior would be reserved for Verizon.

-t

[CharlesS]

According to a Google search I just did, not only does the 8820's WiFi work just fine without a data plan, but it even works without a SIM card.

Can I use Wifi without tmobile data plan?? - BlackBerry Forums at CrackBerry.com

How to browse internet on Blackberry phone using Wi-Fi without data plan with AT & T | eHow.com (AT&T, but the comments say the same process works with T-Mobile)

Wi-Fi without data plan works! - BlackBerry Support Community Forums

8820 Wifi without data plan? - BlackBerryForums.com : Your Number One BlackBerry Community

Apparently, though, you have to use a third-party browser such as Opera, and not the default BlackBerry browser, for it to work. That's probably your wife's problem.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

According to a Google search I just did, not only does the 8820's WiFi work just fine without a data plan, but it even works without a SIM card.

Can I use Wifi without tmobile data plan?? - BlackBerry Forums at CrackBerry.com

How to browse internet on Blackberry phone using Wi-Fi without data plan with AT & T | eHow.com (AT&T, but the comments say the same process works with T-Mobile)

Wi-Fi without data plan works! - BlackBerry Support Community Forums

8820 Wifi without data plan? - BlackBerryForums.com : Your Number One BlackBerry Community

Apparently, though, you have to use a third-party browser such as Opera, and not the default BlackBerry browser, for it to work. That's probably your wife's problem.

If I ever get the chance to pick a team, for anything really, can you be on my side please?

[CharlesS]

^ Just for doing a simple Google search and posting the results?

[Eriamjh]

Put this in your pipe and smoke it:

...Google's selling phones directly, and when it comes to walking the walk, Google's only halfway there with the Nexus One. Yes, you can buy an unlocked version of the Nexus One for $529. You can also buy the phone for $179 with a two-year T-Mobile contract. But if, within the first four months of the latter option, you decide T-Mobile's not for you after two weeks of ownership, Google sticks you with a $350 early termination fee in addition to the $200 fee from T-Mobile, plus the original $179 price tag.
Source

Holy Cancellation Fees, Batman!

[ort888]

I must live in some sort of nerd bubble, because reading through the comments section on a recent digg story on the iPhone made me really realize that there are some crazy nerds out there.

The Android fanboys were slagging away at the iPhone like it was a 1997 Motorola the size of a banana compared to the perfection that is the Droid.

Some serious bile was being thrown around...

Dear Apple: What we want to see for iPhone 4.0

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

Put this in your pipe and smoke it:


Holy Cancellation Fees, Batman!

Yet another reason to go with the contract-free plan. The 2-year contract is a complete rip-off.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ort888 

a 1997 Motorola the size of a banana

Moto banana ?

I remember the Nokia "banana" phone.



I LOVED that phone. It was small and light, good to hold. No unnecessary gimmicks.

-t

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

No unnecessary gimmicks.

Like the ability to dial phone numbers...

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Like the ability to dial phone numbers...

Huh ?

-t

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I still can't quite figure out for the life of my WHY people want OLED screens when every single product that has one EVERY single review mentions you can't see it to save your life outside in the sun.

Not to mention
• it doesn't save any battery life apparently
• Costs more
• Blue colour fades quickly over use

Do you people not go outside or will take techie sales terms over actual use?
Even for the apparently "better colour" (on a cellphone no less) for me the tradeoff isn't worth even considering.

Adding to all that.

1) What the hell is that scrollball for? Why put static buttons on the screen? Answer: Every company is to scared to make the jump to just one home button like apple did 2 years ago. It is quite funny to watch the progression of all these products. First they all had slider keyboards, answer and end keys, scrollballs, static buttons on screen, back. With each revision one of those things goes missing and a single home button appears.. because they realise that Apple got it 100% right with model 1.0.

On a side note Android did the same thing with the OS and that stupid apps tab at the bottom. As a designer I saw that was a very bad idea as it makes the large amount of space on either side of the tab useless to use for much else. They pretty much give a huge amount of involuntary white space to the OS in a small area. 3rd parties even added End and call buttons to the side of the tab to make better use of it. Now in Nexus it has been replaced with a "Home" button which acts pretty much the same as iPhone 1.0. Welcome google.

2) Ok my Nexus crashes when I do something specific... who do I call... Google, HTC, Cell provider?

3) $530 unlocked isn't that cheap. Lets not talk 2x cancelation fees.

4) Android is the 3rd best OS next to iPhone and WebOS. Android is still cold, bland and inconsistent, just like google. The Apps are not consistent in UI, the MP3 player is a joke, fewer apps, spyware because there is no "evil approval process" for apps. Mostly the OS is not fun to use nor does it have any sort of charm.

5) Europe gets multitouch and the screen is multitouch and the west gets it disabled. Seriously? My guess they are tiptoeing around legal matters as long as they can to see what happens.

6) Who knows if this device will work with Android 2.5. so far it shows there are no promises on updates working with whatever phone you have.

7) Cloud content only. No easy computer syncing. No iTunes, no iTMS.

I could go on but some of them are related more to Android than the Nexus.

Either way, with all these negatives this is exactly why most people will go with iPhones instead. They are leading the market not playing catchup and 2 years behind.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

3) $530 unlocked isn't that cheap. Lets not talk 2x cancelation fees.

Again, $530 is cheap for an unlocked smartphone (the 16 GB and 32 GB iPhone 3GS models are $600 and $700 respectively without a contract), and if you factor in the $480 you're saving by paying $20 less each month, it comes out to the same amount of money you would be spending if the phone were $50 subsidized. That's a really cheap price for a smartphone. And there aren't any cancellation fees if you're not on a contract.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Again, $530 is cheap for an unlocked smartphone (the 16 GB and 32 GB iPhone 3GS models are $600 and $700 respectively without a contract)

I don't think saving $70 for the hardware is worth all the downsides over an iPhone. How big of a memory card does the Nexus come with?

Plans/service costs don't apply as most people are upgrading their old phones and get much better deals on monthly plans.

For example I pay $20 CAN/Month for 6 gigs of data plus free tethering. Never gone over 1.5 gigs no matter how hard I try to.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Huh ?

-t

Where's the keypad? When opened it doesn't seem to reveal enough keys.

[turtle777]

It's not fully opened. Trust me, it didn't just have numbers 1-3.

-t

[ort888]

"Call me... my number is 452..."

"WHOA!!!! Stop right there buddy... I can't call anyone who has a digit over three in their number... sorry..."

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I don't think saving $70 for the hardware is worth all the downsides over an iPhone. How big of a memory card does the Nexus come with?

4 GB, but even if you buy a 16 GB MicroSD card to go with it, it'll still be less than the 16 GB iPhone.

Plans/service costs don't apply as most people are upgrading their old phones and get much better deals on monthly plans.

For example I pay $20 CAN/Month for 6 gigs of data plus free tethering. Never gone over 1.5 gigs no matter how hard I try to.

I don't know what it's like in Canada, but in the States, T-Mobile's non-contract plan is about the cheapest that it gets, and it's $20 less than the regular 2-year contract plan (because T-Mobile doesn't have to pay the subsidy on the phone). It doesn't matter if you are upgrading an existing plan, the prices are the same - and in those cases where there is a difference with a US carrier, you're usually better off if you're not upgrading an existing account, because they give all the best deals to new customers and existing customers often get screwed.

So anyway, yes the $20 per month savings is significant, and yes you do pay significantly less by buying the unlocked phone and going with the no-contract plan. And since getting a subsidized phone means that the carrier has to jack up the monthly price in order to not lose money massively on the phone subsidies, it's pretty much always going to be a better deal to get an unsubsidized phone and a no-contract plan, unless the carrier is royally ripping you off (*cough* AT&T *cough*).

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

4 GB, but even if you buy a 16 GB MicroSD card to go with it, it'll still be less than the 16 GB iPhone.

Right so I'll assume that the card is $20 so in the end the hardware is a whooping $50 cheaper than an iPhone for all those downsides it isn't worth it at all for me even if I save another $20 a month.

Some people $20/m and no contracts (cuz they switch a lot?) is worth all that so the Nexus is perfect for them.

[CharlesS]

Take your pick.

1. Saving a substantial amount of money

2. Being able to change your plan at will

3. Having a non-crippled phone

4. Being able to get any phone you want, from anywhere, without having to rely on what the carrier decides to offer

5. Not having to pay an ETF if you have to move somewhere where your carrier has lousy coverage, or if your carrier decides to start sucking in your area

6. Not having to pay an ETF if it turns out your phone doesn't work in a place that you have to travel a lot

7. Not having to pay an ETF if their customer service pisses you off, or if anything else about the company sucks really

8. Greater incentive for cell companies to actually improve their service and suck less in order to compete, instead of just trapping you in their lousy service for two years

9. Being able to travel overseas and use a local SIM without having to beg and plead for the carrier to let you unlock your phone

10. Less people who get a "free" phone with a contract, treat it like it's a piece of junk because they don't realize its value, destroy it in the middle of the contract period, and then wonder why they can't get another "free" phone to replace it

11. Greater freedom and flexibility in general

but the biggest one is: not being completely ripped off by excessive prices due to the phone subsidy.

And hey, if this plan succeeds, the other carriers might start giving this option as well, which will benefit all you iPhone people as well. In fact, I'd say it's almost a certainty that this probably will be available once the iPhone comes to T-Mobile. Ever notice how bad cell service is in the US compared to Europe? Well, the US's lousy model is at least partly to blame. This is bringing the European cell phone model to the US, which is a boon for everyone with absolutely no downside. Having to sign an interminable 2-year contract pissed me off when I first got a cell phone seven years ago, and it still pisses me off now.