[Ron K]

Having bought the top of the line custom MBA 13" last year in July, I fully expected that sometime in the foreseeable future I would be able to use the thunderbolt port. However, I am very disappointed that, after a full year, I am still stuck with a port I cannot use; AND a port for which there are very few peripherals. And what peripherals there are are very expensive. I have been creeping along with the USB 2.0 ports. It just seems so thoughtless of Apple to develop a technology and not already have peripherals for it. But what is more frustrating is, of course, for Apple to have saddled the $1,600 MBA with USB 2.0 ports when it is quite obvious that an 800 firewire or USB 3.0 would have been much more appropriate. At least until peripherals were developed to support it.

This being the case, I now need to find adapter cables for both ethernet and firewire, since I still have devices that utilize both. I went to the Apple store and of course, they have the ethernet to thunderbolt adapter for $31! It does piss me off that after leaving me in the dust with slow USB 2.0, they would have the nerve to charge such an outrageous price for their lack of technological oversight. They should be offering them to us at cost to make up for their mistake. They obviously have no shame.

Enough ranting....I am trying to find an economical solution for adapters that can plug into the thunderbolt port. Does anyone have a source for such adapters? Out of principal, I refuse to buy the Apple adapter, and I will not buy another MBA until they come out with a more useful configuration. In the meanwhile, what have other MBA users done to make up for the shortfall in fast MBA ports? Would it work to just purchase ethernet to USB cable and firewire 800 to USB?

[Drakino]

Quite the rant there. Let me tell you a story though about the humble beginnings of that USB port. The spec was finished in January 1996. I remember seeing USB ports on some new Gateway computers later that year, but nothing used them. The computer didn't even come with a USB keyboard and mouse, it instead came with PS2 variants. Windows 95 also had pretty much no support for them, so the ports sat unused. Oh, and if you were a computer enthusiast, and managed to add a PCI to USB card, good luck with ever getting it to work in Windows. See, Microsoft had multiple versions of Windows 95, but the special newer versions with that attempt at USB support was only sold to OEMs, and not the end user.

Fast forward to 1997. Windows 97 was on the horizon, but was running late. Late enough that we have to fast forward to 1998, where the newly renamed and prerelease Windows 98 was still blue screening if you attached a mythical USB scanner ( Windows 98 famous bluescreen at COMDEX 1998 - YouTube ). When Windows 98 did ship in June, it did bring usable USB support to the PC masses, but still most devices used serial, parallel, or PS/2 ports. Thankfully Apple was preparing to ship a USB only computer in August 1998, and when it was clear it was popular in 1999, the peripheral world finally started releasing more USB devices, more then 3 years after the standard was finished.

We are still well inside that 3 year period for Thunderbolt. And already more devices and proper OS support exists for it compared to USB's initial rollout. Just give it time, more devices will appear. And for now, feel free to plug an extra monitor into that port, it doesn't have to sit unused causing consternation.

Also, you want a Firewire 800 port? It's thicker then the Air is, so that would be one issue. The other is that Firewire is on it's way out. Thunderbolt is already replacing Firewire for the professional market. On the USB3 side, Apple would have had to add an extra controller chip, and decide what port to make USB 3 to route to that chip and what port to make USB 2 routing to the system chipset. Only recently with the newer Ivy Bridge did USB 3 get added to the system chipsets Apple uses from Intel.

And a note on the price of the Thunderbolt to Gigabit ethernet adaptor, the asking price from Apple is quite reasonable. Thunderbolt is PCI Express, the same type of expansion slot that sits inside a Mac Pro or many PCs. Apple gave you a port that allows desktop like expansion on a laptop not thick enough to have a Firewire 800 port. If I look at NewEgg, a decent Gigabit PCIe card runs at least $25.

Sure, you could get a USB2 to Ethernet adaptor, but it's going to be capped at USB2 speeds. Even if it's Gigabit, practical speeds will be around 30% of the potential of Gigabit. Thunderbolt will give you 100%. And don't expect to find a Firewire to USB converter. The way a Firewire bus works is very different then USB. Thunderbolt though makes this easy, since Firewire to PCIe is very simple to do, and is exactly how Firewire works inside Macs with the ports.

[Eug]

That's why I've been saying it wasn't a good idea in late 2011 and 2012 to buy a brand new Mac without USB 3, if you could afford to wait a while. With USB 3, the new MacBooks are MUCH more compelling than they were just a few months ago. (It'd be nicer if they had 802.11ac though.)



However, a new tech always takes time to take hold, and furthermore, a USB to Ethernet dongle has been available for ages.

I glad Apple has finally seen the light and has added an HDMI port to the retina Pro though. Why not Ethernet or FW 800? FW800 is dying, and with Ethernet as a dongle, it's acceptable. Neither Ethernet nor FW800 fit anyway.



It's Air, Retina, Pro. Note the height of the side face on the Retina - too short for either FW800 or Ethernet.

[cgc]

Originally Posted by Ron K 

...
But what is more frustrating is, of course, for Apple to have saddled the $1,600 MBA with USB 2.0 ports when it is quite obvious that an 800 firewire or USB 3.0 would have been much more appropriate. At least until peripherals were developed to support it.
...

What's really thoughtless was not doing your research before you bought your MBA. Can't buy something then complain without a large portion of the blame pointing back at you. I too wish TB adoption would increase but Apple was quick to odder it (like USB 1.0 back in the day) and it'll take some time for the peripheral makers to catch-on. USB 2.0 isn't too bad, but eSATA is the connector of choice for external HDDs cuz you won't need a bridge chip which tend to slow things down a tad.

[Waragainstsleep]

Bitching about an adaptor being $31 is ridiculous. Last week it would have cost you more like $300.

[BLAZE_MkIV]

There is a smaller firewire connector that lacks power support that would fit.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV 

There is a smaller firewire connector that lacks power support that would fit.

True dat. I don't think Apple has that on any of its Macs though, and a dongle is a reasonable compromise. What I was annoyed about previously with the Airs was that there was no such dongle at all (until now).

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV 

There is a smaller firewire connector that lacks power support that would fit.

It lacks both bus power and 800 Mbit speeds.

A huge part of the FireWire ecosystem is built around bus power. Adding a FW port without it would have been way worse than leaving it off entirely.

[Ron K]

OK. Perhaps I was naive enough to believe Apple when it said that TB peripherals should be forthcoming in the near future. However, I do not consider 1 year to be the near future; especially considering that in that year, Apple has come out with the new MBA that just happens to include 2 USB 3.0 ports. Should I be jubilent?? If I am not mistaken, USB 3.0 was available in 2011.

Right now, I just need to concentrate on how to bridge the gap and make some use of the ports that are available. Obviously I am not a sophisticated Mac techie, and therefore, I appreciate the constructive suggestions offerred here. So, a few more questions:
1. how does one connect eSATA to the 2011 MBA? And how much does it cost?
2. how does one hook up a Gigabit PCIe card? through the TB port or USB port?

Thanks

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Ron K 

This being the case, I now need to find adapter cables for both ethernet and firewire, since I still have devices that utilize both. I went to the Apple store and of course, they have the ethernet to thunderbolt adapter for $31! It does piss me off that after leaving me in the dust with slow USB 2.0, they would have the nerve to charge such an outrageous price for their lack of technological oversight. They should be offering them to us at cost to make up for their mistake. They obviously have no shame.

$31 probably is at cost, or close to it. That adapter is at least an order of magnitude cheaper than every other Thunderbolt peripheral I've seen. Heck, it's cheaper than a Thunderbolt cable.

The problem I have with it is that from the pictures, it doesn't look like there's a Thunderbolt pass-through port. This means that if you use this adapter, you can't use any other Thunderbolt peripherals at all with your machine (not that there are many, of course).

Originally Posted by Ron K 

Right now, I just need to concentrate on how to bridge the gap and make some use of the ports that are available. Obviously I am not a sophisticated Mac techie, and therefore, I appreciate the constructive suggestions offerred here. So, a few more questions:
1. how does one connect eSATA to the 2011 MBA? And how much does it cost?
2. how does one hook up a Gigabit PCIe card? through the TB port or USB port?

You'll be able to do both those things, plus FireWire and USB 3.0, in one fell swoop with this guy:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/05/b...-express-dock/

The price is crazy, though.

[Eug]

You can get USB 3 for less ($250) with this guy, along with DVI and Gigabit Ethernet:

Matrox DS-1 Docking Station



You'd have to pay the extra thirty bux for FW800 though.

[Spheric Harlot]

That damn thing has no TB pass-through...Shame.

[boy8cookie]

Because it has the DVI it can't have pass thru. Same reason thunderbolt display doesn't have pass thru.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by boy8cookie 

Because it has the DVI it can't have pass thru. Same reason thunderbolt display doesn't have pass thru.

The Apple Thunderbolt Display HAS pass-through.

(it's connected via the fixed cable, remember—the single Thunderbolt port on the back IS a pass-through.)

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Eug 

You can get USB 3 for less ($250) with this guy, along with DVI and Gigabit Ethernet:

..snip..

You'd have to pay the extra thirty bux for FW800 though.

And since neither that box nor the FW800 adapter has a pass-through, you won't be able to connect both of them at once. One or the other.

Does the Thunderbolt spec allows star topology the way that USB and FireWire do, I wonder? Although, I shudder to think about how much a TB hub would probably cost.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Does the Thunderbolt spec allows star topology the way that USB and FireWire do, I wonder? Although, I shudder to think about how much a TB hub would probably cost.

TB supports daisy chaining and I've read references to hubs but the necessary chipsets don't exist yet as far as I can tell.

[SierraDragon]

Promise Thunderbolt drives pass through Thunderbolt via daisy chain topology.

[CharlesS]

Of course Thunderbolt supports daisy chain topology, but that doesn't help you you have devices, like several of those mentioned in this thread, that don't have a pass-through port. That's why I'm curious whether a hub is technologically feasible or not.

[Athens]

What you are more likely to see is a TB dock (3rd party) that contains all the ports and functions connecting via a single TB connection with a pass-through port for hard drives and other devices in the chain.

[CharlesS]

Yep, like the Belkin dock I mentioned earlier.

It would nice, and a lot cheaper, if a hub were available so we could use things like Apple's $30 adapter without tying up the whole TB port, though.

[gooser]

ron, maybe there will never be many thunderbolt peripherals. just because it's better doesn't mean that it will become accepted. it could die without even getting off the ground.

[Waragainstsleep]

Thunderbolt will be fine. Its too good.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

The Apple Thunderbolt Display HAS pass-through.

(it's connected via the fixed cable, remember—the single Thunderbolt port on the back IS a pass-through.)

Quoting myself to add:

But, for some reason unbeknownst to anyone but the tech gods, you can't actually hook up another display to the Thunderbolt Display.
Here, point #17:
Thunderbolt ports and displays: Frequently asked questions (FAQ)

So, can I technically hook up something like the Promise RAID to the TB port on the Thunderbolt Display, and then hook up the second monitor to THAT?

This is even more ****ed up than SCSI was.

[BLAZE_MkIV]

That's odd a no tintuitive but it only affects mini display port displays to thunderbolt displays. Which is worse since mini display port is likely to be more common.

[P]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Thunderbolt will be fine. Its too good.

If there is a use case for it, it will take off. If there is not, then...sorry. I think that the limited case of docking station/display is enough of a niche for it to survive, however.

It just struck me what Thunderbolt should be considered the replacement of. It is the latest step in the PCMCIA/PCcard/ExpressCard line.

[Eug]

Yes, Thunderbolt is the replacement for ExpressCard. However, functionally in the real world, it seems to be the replacement of FW800, with monitor support thrown in.

However, it seems people are drifting towards USB 3 and HDMI. I think Apple is finally admitting this, hence their inclusion of the HDMI port on MBP:TNG.

As of right now, I still don't know a single person with any Thunderbolt peripheral other than an Apple display, whereas HDMI is ubiquitous, and USB 3 is extremely common.

[BLAZE_MkIV]

If DisplayPort had really made any inroads as a display connector then thunderbolt would have had a better chance. IMHO they should have waited for Lightpeak and made it a fully passive fiber cable. The cable cost would be much lower and the bandwidth would be so much higher it would have a real advantage / use case over USB3.

Correct me If i'm wrong but PCIe isn't designed for daisy chaining like FIrewire so those pass through connectors are actually PCIe to PCIe bridges.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV 

If DisplayPort had really made any inroads as a display connector then thunderbolt would have had a better chance.

"Had?" "Would have?"

I think you're a little early to report on Thunderbolt's and DisplayPort's demise.

For one, The Standard is *still* VGA. For another, my impression is that DisplayPort is on the rise. And as I understand it, HDMI is too limited for anything high-resolution, 4096×2160 at 24 fps, or 1920 @ 60 fps. Of course, only Apple will be blowing past that anytime soon...

Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV 

IMHO they should have waited for Lightpeak and made it a fully passive fiber cable. The cable cost would be much lower and the bandwidth would be so much higher it would have a real advantage / use case over USB3.

However, the chipsets would be so much more expensive that it would be not unlikely, but completely inconceivable that any manufacturer apart from Apple would ever include them on their main boards.

[P]

Originally Posted by Eug 

However, it seems people are drifting towards USB 3 and HDMI. I think Apple is finally admitting this, hence their inclusion of the HDMI port on MBP:TNG.

I'm pretty sure that the HDMI port is there for people making presentations. The most common port on projectors is VGA, but the chassis is not thick enough to fit it. HDMI is the second most common.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV 

Correct me If i'm wrong but PCIe isn't designed for daisy chaining like FIrewire so those pass through connectors are actually PCIe to PCIe bridges.

The TB controllers have a PCI switch and a TB switch. With TB you can do PCI fanout:



Or direct routing in TB:



Apple has more information here.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by P 

I'm pretty sure that the HDMI port is there for people making presentations. The most common port on projectors is VGA, but the chassis is not thick enough to fit it. HDMI is the second most common.

Yes, the HDMI port is there for people making presentations, and VGA is too big (and ugly), but the MacBook Pro never had a VGA port either. But it's also extremely common on monitors. So it's both for presentations and for monitors.

Basically, Apple is finally listening to people saying they want HDMI built-in, because it's so ubiquitous.

That said, my Lenovo desktop has DisplayPort. Given that none of my monitors have DisplayPort, I had to purchase an adapter. I couldn't find it anywhere, and the few DisplayPort to HDMI cables available locally were horrendously expensive so I finally ordered one off eBay and waited 2 weeks to get it. That's just how popular DisplayPort is.

[Wiskedjak]

Just picked up a Seagate GoFlex Thunderbolt adapter (the price has dropped to <$100). Plugged in a drive that I previously thought was dead, and it showed up in Disk Utility where I was able to repair it (under USB, the drive stopped showing up).

Thunderbolt may have helped me recover a dead drive. We'll see if the drive continues to be usable, or if it was just a coincidence.

[BLAZE_MkIV]

That pretty much what I was thinking.

Allot of manufacturers are gonna leave it out to save a buck (literally) on the silicon and allot of time and money on the compatability testing they would have to do.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV 

That pretty much what I was thinking.

Allot of manufacturers are gonna leave it out to save a buck (literally) on the silicon and allot of time and money on the compatability testing they would have to do.

Since Intel is the only one making silicon, they can't save a buck there, but they can skip testing and the $0.10 port.

[BLAZE_MkIV]

The cheapest one Port Ridge DSL2210 doesn't support chaining at all. Of PCI or displayport At Least Two Intel Thunderbolt Controllers Will Be Paired with Ivy Bridge - Softpedia