[Rickster]

Still seeing the occasional rendering issue with text with certain fonts ... "major" is looking very funky right now - a huge gap between the j and o

Ken committed a change that may fix the "crazy j" bug last night -- you'll see it in sp26. We're still having a hard time reproducing some of the text-metrics issues in the debugger (they're too random), but we're working on it.

Something you can do to help: when you see wacky letter spacing in a page, choose Flush Cache from the Tools menu and do something that makes the page redraw (like scrolling it or selecting text). If the text fixes itself when you do that, you were just affected by the ATSUI width caching bug we've been trying to track down. If you can find a way to make it happen again consistently (i.e. "do this then this and it happens", not "browse for awhile and it happens"), please let us know! If the text metrics are still messed up after you flush the cache and redisplay the page, you've found a different bug -- it'd be most helpful if you could let us know whether you've tried flushing the cache when reporting text-metrics issues.

I wonder if Rickster would respond to postcards?

Postcards are fine, just don't expect us to send you sneakypeeks on CD wherever you're going. Enjoy your vacation... we'll make sure you've got lots to play with when you get back.

[BZ]

Originally posted by Rickster:
Postcards are fine, just don't expect us to send you sneakypeeks on CD wherever you're going. Enjoy your vacation... we'll make sure you've got lots to play with when you get back. [/B]

OW 5.0? You shouldn't have!

BZ

[Sharky K.]

Originally posted by BZ:
OW 5.0? You shouldn't have!

BZ

[ratlater]

SP26 is out in the usual place. It fixes a number of bugs, including some font metrics problems, page loading problems (wamu.com) and the mysterious location bar not accepting keyboard input bug. All three of these bugs were high on my list of problems, way to go Omni. After not having any crashes in sp25, and now with my 3 biggest issues crushed OW 4.5 is nearing perfection

-matt

[JKT]

sp26 - I appear to have lost the ability to click and hold on links to get the contextual menu... anyone else?

[pliny]

No problems with the contextual menu so far here, jkt but I've only just gotten sp26.

That location bar bug was a weird one alright.

[JKT]

Originally posted by pliny:
No problems with the contextual menu so far here, jkt but I've only just gotten sp26.

Strangely, I no longer have the problem either and I haven't restarted OW... just had my system go to sleep in between.

[cpac]

posting w/ sp27:

Eliminated some redundant entries in the error log.
Fixed bug #9120: Blocked ads rendering as broken images.
The referrer will now be sent when opening links in other windows, saving pages, etc.
The "Reset" button now works on the Privacy Preferences pane.
Fixed bug #4134: Downloads window comes forward but doesn't become key.
Re-implemented "Save as PDF" (hold option while selecting "Save As...").
Fixed bug #9105: After entering a new address and hitting return, the current address displays in the location bar again for a brief moment.
Improved the behavior of the window zoom button on sites with frames. (Bug #8930)
Clicking the badge icon of an unloaded image will once again attempt to load the image. (Bug #8665)
Fixed bug #9007: self.focus brings window forward but doesn't make it key.
The JavaScript console will no longer remove and re-add the debugger for a frame which is loading a new URL.
Fixed bug #5611: Errors repeatedly logged to Console when plugin content loaded (Flash, Realplayer) "kCGErrorIllegalArgument CGSGetDisplayBounds".
Show completion conditions as blue text. Now you can evaluate expressions (arithmetic, etc) in the JavaScript debugging console.
Fixed bug #8997: Find scrolls the frame even when the found text is already visible.

I like the fix re: blocked images appearing as broken, but they don't seem to have the little mask icon thing going on...

[MrBS]

Originally posted by cpac:
Fixed bug #9105: After entering a new address and hitting return, the current address displays in the location bar again for a brief moment.

That one was driving me mad.
~BS

[970]

.

[JKT]

sp27 - holding down the option key doesn't cause the "File>Save as..." menu to change to "File>Save as PDF..." like it used to in 4.2 and earlier, but it does work now (i.e. saves the site as a single page PDF).

[ambush]

I installed it on my eMac700 384 GF2MX... and I'm kind of disappointed with the scrolling speed, really. It's like 1/2 of safari's speed.

[Catfish_Man]

Originally posted by ambush:
I installed it on my eMac700 384 GF2MX... and I'm kind of disappointed with the scrolling speed, really. It's like 1/2 of safari's speed.

Funky. Omniweb scrolls much smoother/faster than any other browser I have. It's one of my favorite things about it.

[ambush]

Originally posted by Catfish_Man:
Funky. Omniweb scrolls much smoother/faster than any other browser I have. It's one of my favorite things about it.

What's your setup? Do you use a scroll wheel? The space bar? The buttons?

[TheIceMan]

sp28 is out now

[pliny]

Originally posted by Catfish_Man:
Funky. Omniweb scrolls much smoother/faster than any other browser I have. It's one of my favorite things about it.

Me too, the best scrolling around.

[Gul Banana]

I find that the scrolling is good with a scroll wheel, excellent with the keyboard, and kind of crappy using the scrollbar.

[pliny]

Hm, scrollbar scrolling is one of the things that's always worked very well for me in Omniweb, esp when compared to Safari, which for me does scrollbar scrolling (try saying that fast 3 times) very poorly. When I say "well" I mean Omni scrolls very fast using the scrollbar, wheel or keyboard.

[workerbee]

Originally posted by pliny:
Hm, scrollbar scrolling is one of the things that's always worked very well for me in Omniweb, esp when compared to Safari, which for me does scrollbar scrolling (try saying that fast 3 times) very poorly. When I say "well" I mean Omni scrolls very fast using the scrollbar, wheel or keyboard.

Maybe OW scrolls too fast?
I still like the way IE scrolls on windows (even under VPC) better than any browser on OSX: it has a slowing down of the page movement at the end that makes it a lot easier on the (my) eyes, because the eyes can follow a line or a visual cue, and know where on the page it is.
On OS X things just jump instantly to their end position, which may be faster, but far more irritating to my eyes.

The only app I've seen scrolling really beautifully under OSX is pdf browser plugin.

[bmedina]

Originally posted by workerbee:
Maybe OW scrolls too fast?
I still like the way IE scrolls on windows (even under VPC) better than any browser on OSX: it has a slowing down of the page movement at the end that makes it a lot easier on the (my) eyes, because the eyes can follow a line or a visual cue, and know where on the page it is.
On OS X things just jump instantly to their end position, which may be faster, but far more irritating to my eyes.

Mozilla Browser (aka Firebird) also implements this on OS X, but scrolling in general in OS X is so poorly optimized that it's pretty painful.

[ratlater]

Originally posted by workerbee:
Maybe OW scrolls too fast?
I still like the way IE scrolls on windows (even under VPC) better than any browser on OSX: it has a slowing down of the page movement at the end that makes it a lot easier on the (my) eyes, because the eyes can follow a line or a visual cue, and know where on the page it is.
On OS X things just jump instantly to their end position, which may be faster, but far more irritating to my eyes.

The only app I've seen scrolling really beautifully under OSX is pdf browser plugin.

I think you are referring to smooth scrolling, which is what I hate more than anything else about windows explorer. Because it is trying to smooth out scrolling it ends up slowing it down, but it still registers all of the key strokes, so when I open a website in IE and want to scroll down a ways right away the browser will creep down the page while I angrily hit the down key. When it finally reaches the place I want it just keeps on scrolling, forcing me to madly hit the up key. Smooth scrolling is a disaster in my experience.

OW scrolls beautifully for me, even on an iBook 600 with 8 MB graphics. It's the best scrolling app on this machine.

-matt

[workerbee]

Originally posted by ratlater:
Smooth scrolling is a disaster in my experience.

-matt

Point taken. Maybe an Prefs option toggling smooth scrolling on or off would be nice -- if OS X was capable of scrolling smoothly, which I think it isn't, for lack of speed in the QE engine.

[entrox]

Apart from the excessive flashing, which happens sometimes when loading a page, there are two things that bug me:[list=1][*]The `stop' button has no effect on images - I can merrily hit it, but images get loaded in the background nevertheless.
[*]Text selection seems buggy. Rather than describe the problem, I've made a small video showing the bug in action: ow-sp28-bug.mov[/list=1]
OmniWeb 4.5 is getting really nice. I even bought a licence because of the SPs :-)

[pliny]

Originally posted by entrox:

[*]Text selection seems buggy. Rather than describe the problem, I've made a small video showing the bug in action: ow-sp28-bug.mov[/list=1]

Heh, heh, nice.

The sps are coming along great (as anyone who uses them knows) but I'm stuck in sp26 because of a couple of weird bugs in 27 and 28,

� bookmark window (not drawer) won't stay frontmost in order to be able to drag from url bar to it, is this result of another bug fix?

� cursor doesn't change to hand when going over links; I need help finding my hyperlinks

Oh when using the text zoom box, is spellchecking meant to be on or not?

These are low priority I know but just wanted to mention them, otherwise OW is running very very well.

[ratlater]

Originally posted by workerbee:
Point taken. Maybe an Prefs option toggling smooth scrolling on or off would be nice -- if OS X was capable of scrolling smoothly, which I think it isn't, for lack of speed in the QE engine.

Sorry for the overly strong response, i just really don't like smooth scrolling. I'd be okay with a pref option though. In fact I remember some of the Omni guys mentioning it as a possibility for OW 5.

-matt

[MrBS]

Originally posted by ratlater:
Sorry for the overly strong response, i just really don't like smooth scrolling. I'd be okay with a pref option though. In fact I remember some of the Omni guys mentioning it as a possibility for OW 5.

-matt

Rick was saying he would like to have it if it could be fast enough. He also said that it's not fast enough.

I'm with Matt about smooth scrolling, it's a pain in the arse when you're on a pc trying to navigate with the keyboard. It's slow, it's hard to use, and it makes things harder to read.

Arrowing down a page takes way longer with smooth scrolling. What's more, the keystroke buffer fills up with down arrows so by the time the section you want shows up on screen you've told it to inch down enough times that it will scroll to the bottom of the document several times over. Even worse, instead of the herky-mac-jump that moves the text a known distance up or down in one refresh, the windows-smooth-scrolling drags it up over a series of frames. So instead of needing to deal with the momentary inconvenience of having the text instantly move exactly as you tell it to, allowing you to continue reading without much extra work, with smooth scrolling the text is extremely hard to read as it moves, and this animated movement takes several frames. So while I'm waiting for the text to finish moving (assuming I didn't overshoot what I wanted to read) on windows, I'd already be reading it on a mac.

~BS


[edit] run-on... and on... and on...[/edit]

[JKT]

Originally posted by pliny:
� cursor doesn't change to hand when going over links; I need help finding my hyperlinks

Oh when using the text zoom box, is spellchecking meant to be on or not?

I'm not experiencing your cursor bug in sp 28. The spelling checker is meant to be on in the zoom box if you have it on by default and it also appears to be working for me in sp 28.

[ambush]

What does it mean when I see "Inflate running" in my status bar?

[gregomni]

Originally posted by ambush:
What does it mean when I see "Inflate running" in my status bar?

It means that the server returned gzipped content, and OW is uncompressing it.

- Greg

[Amorya]

Just noticed that you guys took out one of my favourite features... the ability to drag a link a couple of pixels to one side and then release, having it open in the same window. (This was good for links that normally opened in new windows.) Now you have to drag it completely out of the window then back in before it'll register.

Amorya

[Tim2 at Omni]

Originally posted by Amorya:
Just noticed that you guys took out one of my favourite features... the ability to drag a link a couple of pixels to one side and then release, having it open in the same window. (This was good for links that normally opened in new windows.) Now you have to drag it completely out of the window then back in before it'll register.

Amorya

Yeah, but that "feature" was really annoying when you'd accidentally click on a link or an image and drag it a pixel... it would replace whatever page you were looking at! A few times I clicked on a tiny transparent "spacer" image while trying to make a text selection, and I thought OmniWeb was going crazy when the page suddenly went blank.

[Scotttheking]

Three major problems

1. When other processor intensive stuff is running in the foreground, OW can mess up the image, so that text doesn't run smoothly. Not sure how to describe it, I'll try and remember to get a screenshot if I can, but it's like the window is single buffered, and it jumps. Think windows when you nail the proc and run out of ram, how the graphics go all over.

2. Sometimes while trying to post on this forum it just sits there after I hit the post button. I have to stop it, reload, go back, etc. to get it to actually post.

3. I need to be able to override bad SSL certs. I use a self generated cert for my website, and now OW won't let me go past it.

Other then that, it's not too bad. It doesn't seem to be eating ram like there's no tomorrow anymore, which is much appreciated.

[ratlater]

Originally posted by Scotttheking:

3. I need to be able to override bad SSL certs. I use a self generated cert for my website, and now OW won't let me go past it.

This is coming according to the Omni folks. No time estimate, but I don't think it will be too much longer.

-matt

[Scotttheking]

I figured out #2. Omniweb doesn't work very well when the ad server is blocked at the firewall.

[Amorya]

Originally posted by Tim2 at Omni:
Yeah, but that "feature" was really annoying when you'd accidentally click on a link or an image and drag it a pixel... it would replace whatever page you were looking at! A few times I clicked on a tiny transparent "spacer" image while trying to make a text selection, and I thought OmniWeb was going crazy when the page suddenly went blank.

Awww, come on... you know you want to add it back in as an option!

Amorya

[MrBS]

Originally posted by Amorya:
Awww, come on... you know you want to add it back in as an option!

Amorya

No... you really don't. It was evil.

~BS

[TheIceMan]

SP29 is out

[Tim2 at Omni]

Originally posted by TheIceMan:
SP29 is out

It sure is! If anyone finds that their new browser windows are created at an impossibly small size (in the vertical direction), just resize the window and choose "Save Window Size" from the Browser menu.

Yeah, we screwed up. Hopefully it'll be fixed in the next sp.

[oVeRmInD911]

SP 30 is up

wee..no release notes

[Catfish_Man]

Omniweb does not handle devedge.netscape.com correctly (Safari does, so it's not a webcore issue). I'm not anything close to a web expert, but my *guess* is that it's not using any of the CSS stuff (all the page content appears, but without any of the color/layout stuff). I tried changing the UA string to be NS7, but it still didn't work.

[Rickster]

devedge looks okay to me in 4.5sp30... could you be more specific?

[oVeRmInD911]

Yeah I have that happen too on IGN.com where it doesn't load the CSS of the page and just the text. Sometimes it'll just show it without CSS then the CSS will load up, and sometimes a refresh will fix it. I haven't yet found a pattern to which this happens, but I'll be more attentive to the problem from now on and see if I can come to any conclusions.

[MrBS]

Originally posted by oVeRmInD911:
Yeah I have that happen too on IGN.com where it doesn't load the CSS of the page and just the text. Sometimes it'll just show it without CSS then the CSS will load up, and sometimes a refresh will fix it. I haven't yet found a pattern to which this happens, but I'll be more attentive to the problem from now on and see if I can come to any conclusions.

IGN I know sends their css files as text/plain, check it out by opening the error log, clearing it, clicking on show http requests and then load "http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/stylesheet.css". You'll see their sending it as a text/plain, and not text/css. In one of the recent sps (somewhere in the early 20s i think...) OW got a bit more lax and guesses that the file is text/plain (it will throw an error in the log when you load up ign.com) and displays it. I'm guessing that reloading it makes OW take another look at the mistyped css and makes the correct guess.



Release notes up now...

Fixed bug #8827: HTTPS has no option for displaying certificate verification error/override pages.

sweet....

~BS

[Catfish_Man]

Originally posted by Rickster:
devedge looks okay to me in 4.5sp30... could you be more specific?

It's basically text only. No color, page elements in order down the page rather than arranged around it. I'll take a screenshot when I get home.

<edit> I sent feedback with a picture </edit>

[cpac]

did sp30 break login for some people - for sites that normally would prompt the user for a username and password using a sheet or a dialog box?

[MrBS]

31...



Fixed bug #8958: Cannot display oblique fonts (Courier Oblique, Helvetica Oblique). For example, italic text vanishes in PRE blocks.


Speech recognition should be quite a bit faster. When enabled, there will still be slight delays on large pages with a lot of links, but performance should generally be much improved.


The HTTP Authorization sheet should work again.


Fixed bug #9212: Clicking a link to a page that targets the _parent frame causes that page to open in a new window.


Fixed bug #8847: Disabled the I-beam cursor for non-editable text since it was not visible enough over black page backgrounds. (There's a new hidden default, UseIBeamCursor, which can turn this back on for those who really prefer the I-beam.)


Fixed the tab order, which should now emulate 4.2 pretty closely (except that the next control after the last control on the page is now the URL field).

~BS

[JKT]

Omni folks, would it be possible to give us an idea as to what your plans are for progress in 4.5 now that it seems pretty rock solid stable (not a single crash for several sp's for me) - are you going to release a public beta and sort out WebCore/OW rendering issues after that, or try and sort out the rendering issues first and then release a beta/final?

Just curious as I'm not sure whether or not to report rendering issues at the moment (as I can't check html/CSS/etc problems myself so I don't know if any problems I see fall under the known issues list or not...).

I guess what I am asking is for you to let us know when you want us to start reporting page rendering issues to you as opposed to stability and usability ones. I'm not doing it so much at the moment because your focus appears to be on other things...

[rstevens]

i'm using 31 right now ... it's almost perfect from where i stand. it's even replaced Safari.

[Tim2 at Omni]

Originally posted by JKT:
Omni folks, would it be possible to give us an idea as to what your plans are for progress in 4.5 now that it seems pretty rock solid stable (not a single crash for several sp's for me) - are you going to release a public beta and sort out WebCore/OW rendering issues after that, or try and sort out the rendering issues first and then release a beta/final?

We're just about feature complete, and we're very happy with the stability of the latest sp's (not a single crash for me either!)

I'm not sure that we're going to be focusing too much on WebCore rendering issues in the near future (that is, for 4.5). Apple seems to be making pretty solid progress on that front without us. We have been fixing the occasional crash, though (we fixed one involving recursive style sheet @import declarations. I'm not sure it's been merged back into Apple's WebCore).

You'll probably see a public beta sometime soon-ish (i.e., before WWDC). I wouldn't expect it to be vastly different than what you see now (sp31).

[JKT]

Originally posted by Tim2 at Omni:
We're just about feature complete, and we're very happy with the stability of the latest sp's (not a single crash for me either!)

I'm not sure that we're going to be focusing too much on WebCore rendering issues in the near future (that is, for 4.5). Apple seems to be making pretty solid progress on that front without us. We have been fixing the occasional crash, though (we fixed one involving recursive style sheet @import declarations. I'm not sure it's been merged back into Apple's WebCore).

You'll probably see a public beta sometime soon-ish (i.e., before WWDC). I wouldn't expect it to be vastly different than what you see now (sp31).

(Thanks for the response) In that case, will you be tackling things like the lack of functionality at the .Mac HomePage site (and on .Mac published sites) any time soon? It's the only thing that gets me firing up Safari. Also, how about sites that render differently between OW and Safari, e.g. http://www.skydivemag.com/? I assume we should be reporting these to you?

Incidentally, I'm still occasionally experiencing degradation of font metrics with prolonged use (clearing the cache as suggested by Rickster above cleans it up) - is this one of the last major bugs to be tackled or is it an Apple issue?