[gerbnl]

Originally posted by Hydra:
... the free speech they so...

You mean the one that leads to ridiculing when exercised?

right...

in my book there's no such thing as a dumb question, just dumb answers. Too bad that while some here take the trouble to try and give an honest and clear view without resorting to name-calling, ridicule and tongue-in-cheek usage of language, most seem unable to do so. If you're not interested in a subject, just leave the thread alone. I don't know why that is so hard for you.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by gerbnl:
You mean the one that leads to ridiculing when exercised?

right...

in my book there's no such thing as a dumb question, just dumb answers. Too bad that while some here take the trouble to try and give an honest and clear view without resorting to name-calling, ridicule and tongue-in-cheek usage of language, most seem unable to do so. If you're not interested in a subject, just leave the thread alone. I don't know why that is so hard for you.

Wait.

He posted a link that defies everything that the Ca$h-kid has been claiming (that Spliffdaddy hasn't shot down).

He also came forth with information about handling an aircraft at low altitudes.

Sure, he included a little gratuitous and stupid dig at "America-haters", which was pretty inappropriate despite the fact that many European 9/11 conspiracists stem from the Neo-Nazi movement and see it as a part of the greater Jewish world conspiracy.

But to claim that he wasn't interested in the subject and offered nothing of substance is just stupid.

-s*

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by gerbnl:
Why would the -terrorist- pilot choose to turn and go for the recently renovated side of the pentagon, forgoing the white house, the capitol, and just plain diving into the pentagon? Simey's theory about the ILS signal is tempting, but i'd need to see a map first showing me that the path those signals provide indeed lies in a plausible direction...

I don't have time to google the map, but I did have a look last night. I saw the impact sight, it is directly across the road from the section of Rt 110 that passes by the Pentagon. If you draw a line perpendicular the Rt. 110 is goes through the Pentagon to the north end of the runway at Reagan National. I see planes landing at that end all the time, although, of course, the planes don't fly over the Pentagon.

One of you aviation types can tell me whether the beacons would be located at the end of the runway. That isn't something I have any knowledge of. But that is the line.

Edit: I think it is called Route 110 at that point. It's marked on the map as a spur immediately to the west of the Pentagon.

[gerbnl]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
He posted a link that defies everything that the Ca$h-kid has been claiming (that Spliffdaddy hasn't shot down).

He also came forth with information about handling an aircraft at low altitudes.

Sure, he included a little gratuitous and stupid dig at "America-haters", which was pretty inappropriate despite the fact that many European 9/11 conspiracists stem from the Neo-Nazi movement and see it as a part of the greater Jewish world conspiracy.

But to claim that he wasn't interested in the subject and offered nothing of substance is just stupid.

-s*

Hydra's link will have to wait until i'm home again (at work now). I was replying to the free speech bit (wasn't that what i quoted?)

[gerbnl]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Do you think it might be BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHERE IT WAS? You accept that the plane was below radar range to escape detection, and in the very next sentence, you turn around and claim that the military should damn well know exactly where the plane was? Hello? I assume - nay, sincerely hope, since you're spouting all this bull - that you've at least read the chronologies of what happened that day, and perhaps the summary of the 9/11 commission report. Due to massive bungling and lack of coordination, the military didn't even KNOW that the plane was missing for *quite* some time. They had no way of knowing (nor had they any reason to assume) that it would do a 180�, so the damn thing could have been ANYWHERE within a large radius.

I'd argue to do without the banging of head against wall, i know it's your head, but i'd hate to know you'd end up with a headache for me. Just plain English will get your arguments across just fine here, i'm not a republican, ok? Now thanks for bringing to my attention again the chaos that was your military that day. I'd say a plane flying so low for more than a hour must have been seen from the ground then? Also, the general direction of washington must have been a plausible guess of where the plane might head.

Please tell me you've at least HEARD of the 9/11 Commission report?

I've read it with all the interest and vigor that can be expected from a foreign national, sheees, do you think we don't have our own stuff to read here? I've been specifically looking for answers on certain question, much of which i didn't find. Granted, maybe some of them may be there after all but generally Acrobat does a fine job searching in files.

Huh?

I was not talking about the 9/11 commission. Now you may find that the flight 77 questions have been satisfactory answered in this forum (my! 4 times even!), but clearly the one you feel the need to call an ignorant moron, thinks otherwise (incidentally, so do i) release of videomaterial might end this story in one simple move, but that is denied (and wasn't turned up by your commision either as far as it know)

Ah, yes...the Illuminati.

don't know the site, but i like the book by RAW, hardly relevant here though, unless as having a go at discrediting and ridiculing people.

oh, and now i need to go and work a bit...

[BoomStick]

Originally posted by Hydra:
I couldn't sleep and saw this moronic thread. First off, being a pilot, I must say flying a plane is extraordinarily easy. The landing is the hard part and the terrorists were only interested in a one shot attempt. Modern passenger planes of the size that crashed into the Pentagon are about as easy to fly as they come. Also flying very low in a large plane is not that difficult as you enter ground effect, the down-force from the wings rebounds off the ground and floats the aircraft a bit.

Thank God there is another pilot here.

If it's on the internet the tin-foil hat crew will believe anything.

If it comes from a trained professional, it's bunk.

What a sad bizzaro world they live in.


And yes Zimp, I remember TRW. What a moron.



PS, my cellphone works fine in my Cessna at 6000msl.

[gerbnl]

Originally posted by BoomStick:
If it comes from a trained professional, it's bunk.

Hmm, as if you're not talking on the internet right now!

PS, my cellphone works fine in my Cessna at 6000msl.

You see, right now, i DO believe you! (But also: i will ask again someone else some other time to verify) Why should the internet react differently to what you say on the internet as to what you find should be ones reaction on what the internet says. Really! You should be glad not being believed, but damned if it isn't true, i do believe you.

[BoomStick]

http://www.newlondonpress.com/ROBERT/Marzy.mov

Just for you.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by BoomStick:
http://www.newlondonpress.com/ROBERT/Marzy.mov

Just for you.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by gerbnl:
You mean the one that leads to ridiculing when exercised?
right...
in my book there's no such thing as a dumb question, just dumb answers.

No, you misunderstand. You aren't being ridiculed because of the side you've taken but rather for the stupidity of what you say. There are stupid questions. We tell children there aren't so not to stifle their curiosity and desire to learn but as an adult, which we can only assume you are, a certain level of rationale should have surfaced that lets you discern the difference between the probable and the asinine. You my friend, and that really is just a term I use, are just talking out of your ass without really processing the information through any level of educated thought.

Like that issue about finding the plane for instance. The FAA had not yet grounded all the flights in the air. That plane struck the Pentagon at 9:40 AM the FAA ordered all the planes down 9 minutes later. During this magic hour where you think it was so clear that it should have been spotted there were hundreds of planes in the air. No one knew which were hijacked and which were not. The fact that this one particular plane was not visible by its beacon means it was already hard enough to find. Since it had already deviated from its flight plan it was probably within a group of other planes in the area which were designated to be where they were. If we scrambled every fighter jet we had to tail every plane in the air we would have just made the situation more convoluted and difficult to control. If somehow you think you are the one person in the world which could have found this plane, figured out its target and stopped it then you my friend, see above about that term, are making a stupid assumption. Ergo you deserve to be ridiculed.

[gerbnl]

Originally posted by BoomStick:
http://www.newlondonpress.com/ROBERT/Marzy.mov

Just for you.

Assuming that 'you' means 'me':

Noisy bastards are they huh?

I was honest when i told you i believed you and not jesting either. Actually i meant that i believed you about being able to use the cellphone, that you're a pilot i have already taken for granted. Don't worry about it, because, as you will appreciate, the movie still proves nothing, being on the internet. Still i totally believe you when you say you made calls with your cellphone from your cessna without any problems.

nice movie btw! was that a plane taking off in the distance (when you? tried zooming in)?

[Zimphire]

I've never been on a plane, so I couldn't say either way. But I can assure you, Boomstick has flown them himself many times.

[BoomStick]

There was another plane on Charlie when I was at the ramp and I tried to get a shot of it, but it's hard to hold a dv cam and fly.

My cellphone plugs into my headset (FlightCom Denali's)and it has ANR so I can hear and speak. I had the window open so it was very noisey.

[gerbnl]

Oh Zimphire, don't bother! you've been on ignore since, what? your 4000th post? or earlier yet? never mind...

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by gerbnl:
Oh Zimphire, don't bother! you've been on ignore since, what? your 4000th post? or earlier yet? never mind...

Yet you still can't stop yourself from responding to me and make posts about me.



How much you wanna bet you look at this post? Probably the ones before as well.

[Spliffdaddy]

If a cell phone works when miles away from an antenna tower thingy - doesn't it stand to reason that a cell phone would work when you're miles above a tower? I mean, 20,000 feet is 20,000 feet in any direction - right?

While the antennas may be designed for directional optimization - you hafta figure that 'line-of-sight' isn't a rule.

[Hydra]

Originally posted by gerbnl:
You mean the one that leads to ridiculing when exercised?

So free speech should restrict comments against fringe conspiracy theorists? Where is the fun in that?

Btw I have been using cell phones in planes for over a decade now, even before ANR's were commonplace and had to shove it under my Dave Clark headset and scream so the people on the other end could hear Why wouldn't they work? I'm not sure what this whole argument is about. The only problem I see with using cell phones in commercial carriers is they would jump form cell to cell very quickly but I have never tried one in a commercial jet.

-Jerry C.

[BoomStick]

Hydra, where do you fly from?

I fly mostly from KABY and 16J.

16J had 100LL for under three bucks a gallon and T hangars are $50 a month!

[SouthPaW1227]

I love America, however I do believe we cover up things to make the media portray what they wanna show.

I watched the film & was blown away. I read the Scopes link and found THAT more unbelievable than the film. I vote conspiracy, frighteningly enough.

[sideus]

Originally posted by SouthPaW1227:
I love America, however I do believe we cover up things to make the media portray what they wanna show.

I watched the film & was blown away. I read the Scopes link and found THAT more unbelievable than the film. I vote conspiracy, frighteningly enough.

You forgot to read the rest of this thread. You must have not gotten past the first page.

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...=4#post2177576

Read that post and everything after it.

[nate_02]

Not a very well produced video

[ambush]

Originally posted by nate_02:
Not a very well produced video

actually, it's pretty neat.

A lot of work went into it, I guess.

[ambush]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Yet you still can't stop yourself from responding to me and make posts about me.


How much you wanna bet you look at this post? Probably the ones before as well.

Yes, no one can resist. Your intelligence never ceases to blow us away.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by george68:
I watched it. I'm pretty disturbed. I see no wreckage from a plane in any of those pictures.... I'm going to google to see if I can find any.

- Rob

[Zimphire]

If anything, this thread has pointed out to us those who are easily duped.

[sideus]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
If anything, this thread has pointed out to us those who are easily duped.

[pman68]

For people easily duped, please read this book:

Demon haunted world

Good stuff.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by pman68:
For people easily duped, please read this book:

Demon haunted world

Good stuff.

Yes reading that would dupe you.

[ambush]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:

it could be from another plane

[macintologist]

It looks like the wreckage of a commuter jet.

Could someone invoke the FOIA in order to get a hand of those security camera tapes that the FBI took on 9-11?

[sideus]

[ambush]

http://homepage.mac.com/pudge/.Movies/thugs.mp4

one well made propaganda video.

"In front of little... baby.. girls???"

I love it!!

This guy does not work for Kerry and is NOT representative of the people who will vote for Kerry (e.g.: peaceful people).

[sideus]

[ambush]

Originally posted by sideus:

in front of.. little... baby... girls?!?!

[sideus]

The horror!

[zen jihad]

Ed Asner on 9/11:

http://septembereleventh.org/
http://www.insidejob-911.com/

"Mon, 26 Apr 2004

Dear Peace & Justice Leader(s),

I am Ed Asner. As you may know, I've dedicated much of my life to promoting peace & justice issues in America.

I would like to suggest to you emphatically that the 9-11 truth movement is the most pressing issue of the peace & justice movement today. Here is why. 9-11 has been used to justify "endless war" and a continual rollback in civil liberties that seems to have no end in sight. Yet, 9-11 remains the least examined tragedy in modern American history.

Americans would have never agreed to the last two wars and the Patriot Act's disturbing policy . . . had it not been for 9-11.

There are many disturbing issues around 9-11 that have yet to be examined in any meaningful way by our media, Congress, and even by the 9-11 Commission. These include accountability for the massive breakdown of air defense and plane intercept procedures as described in FAA and DOD regulations, which were violated on 9-11...

This breakdown and astounding unpreparedness by U.S. domestic defense agencies is puzzling to say the least, given the detailed reports our government had of the coming attacks, that were bizarrely suppressed by key officials.

For example, FBI Agent Coleen Rowley suggested that her offices' attempts to alert higher ups in the FBI of the pre 9-11 activities of Zacharias Moussaoui "seemed to have been consistently, almost DELIBERATELY thwart[ed] . . ." While George Tenet, Director of the CIA, had recieved a memo in August of 2001 (one month before the attacks of 9-11) on this report entitled, "Islamic Extremists Learn to Fly." Yet, Tenet took no action on this memo. The FBI agents responsible for the now famous "Phoenix Memo" regarding Osama Bin Laden sending students to the U.S. to attend civil aviation schools, also struggled to get their higher ups to act on this information.

To date, no one has been held accountable for the massive defense failures on 9-11, nor for the bizarre suppression of critical warnings prior to 9-11. Furthermore, we still have no explanation for why the head of Pakistani intelligence, who was meeting with top Bush Administration officials in Washington on 9-11-2001, had wired lead hijacker Mohammed Atta $100,000.00 weeks before 9-11. We still do not know who made the insider stock trades in weeks and days leading up to 9-11, by betting "against" United and American Airlines stocks (the aircraft used as missiles on 9-11).

What we DO KNOW is that $5 million of those insider stock trade "winnings" apparently by someone who had foreknowledge of the coming attacks, were made the day before 9-11 at AB Brown Trust. AB Brown Trust was headed until his induction into the CIA by Buzzy Krongard, who is now the Executive Director of the CIA. We also know that the current head of AB Brown Trust quietly resigned his position on 9-11, with no media scrutiny nor apparently government scrutiny. Lastly, and perhaps most bizarre is the fact that $2.5 million of those stock "winnings" against these airlines made at AB Brown Trust . . . remain unclaimed.

We deserve to know why no one has been held accountable, and who made those insider stock trades. We also deserve to know why the Bush Administration allowed members of the Bin Laden family to quietly leave the U.S. after 9-11, with virtually no questioning by the FBI, and at a time when other Americans were not allowed to fly.

There are many other profound, and bizarrely "unasked" questions around 9-11. I urge all to read "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11" by David Ray Griffin, and endorsed by Howard Zinn, and to view "The Great Deception" documentary by acclaimed Canadian television journalist Barry Zwicker. Peace & justice leaders and activists will find these works a great resource for getting current on the 9-11 truth issue, and can be great organizing tools to educate others.

I fear that if the underlying issues of 9-11 truth are not demanded, that Iraq may be but a flame on an ocean of gasoline that may be used to ignite war after war after war. We cannot, as a peace & justice movement only address the flames. We must look at the fuel being used to justify the flames of war and repression at home and abroad. We must look deeply at the events leading up to, on and since 9-11. We must demand full 9-11 truth.

I encourage all local and national peace & justice activists and organizations to join Philadelphia Peace Action and other peace & justice organizations nationwide who are now beginning to work with and becoming involved with the National 9-11Visibility Project at www.septembereleventh.org and to list your local efforts contact information there, so 9-11 truth activists across the nation can get involved with you to demand full 9-11 truth.

The National 9-11 Visibility Project has worked with 9-11 family members, and become a media source conducting interviews and linking media with 9-11 family members, including BBC World Wide Radio Network, The O'Reilly Factor, and others. By listing your local contact information for your local 9-11 truth activities at www.septembereleventh.org media visiting the site can find your contact information as well as local activists who want to join your efforts.

Sincerely,



Ed Asner"

[ambush]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I've never been on a plane, so I couldn't say either way. But I can assure you, Boomstick has flown them himself many times.

I'm sure you could learn a lot from the Euro way of life.

Maybe we should all pay 5 bucks so you can fly out of your country for a week or two?

[gerbnl]

Originally posted by ambush:

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Yet you still can't stop yourself from responding to me and make posts about me.

How much you wanna bet you look at this post? Probably the ones before as well.

Yes, no one can resist. Your intelligence never ceases to blow us away.

@Zim: If everybody else responded as much to your posts as i do, you'd be very lonely in here. But admittedly: i lost the bet, thanks to ambush. it's really too bad quote's aren't included in the ignore mode...

@Ambush: thanks, you cost me a hefty bet with dimphire, but i forgive you.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by gerbnl:
I've read it with all the interest and vigor that can be expected from a foreign national, sheees, do you think we don't have our own stuff to read here?

I'm a "foreign national", too, if you remember.

However, in fairness, I should have said "read *of* the 9/11 Commission report".

I haven't read it myself, but I did read a lengthy article in Spiegel on it, and while that is one of the best news magazines around, it is, from the US point of view, of course radically left-wing (yeah, right), but they've had several features (including TV specials) thoroughly debunking the 9/11 conspiracy hoaxers.

The verdict is that events leading up to and happening on 9/11 were disastrously mismanaged and logistically bungled in just about every way imaginable, but that the "evidence" brought forth by the conspiracy theorists is entirely fabricated, misrepresented, or falsely interpreted. (Witness Ca$h's "no debris" claims, when photos clearly show remains of Pratt & Whitney engines, and the whole ground covered with anti-corrossion-paint-colored bits of fuselage, or the mobile phone thing, or the alleged passenger-list discrepancies brought up repeatedly in earlier years, until those were finally slammed and laid to rest - at least, I haven't seen them brought up in this thread, yet).

There is no doubt that 9/11 was expertly and ruthlessly exploited by the US government for political ends, but that is quite different from insinuating *intent*.

-s*

[xi_hyperon]

ZOMBIE THREAD, RISE!

Today should put to rest the conspiracy theory about flight 77. Judicial Watch is going to post a video of the plane hitting the Pentagon today.

From CNN:

9/11 Pentagon video goes public for first time
Watchdog group says release will end 'conspiracy theories'

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Video showing a plane crashing into the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, will be released publicly for the first time on Tuesday, a judicial watchdog said.

The Department of Defense will hand over tapes showing American Airlines Flight 77 striking its headquarters outside Washington to Judicial Watch, a public interest group that requested the video, the group said.

edit: their site is already getting hammered, but my guess is that the video will show up soon enough on other sites.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon

ZOMBIE THREAD, RISE!

Today should put to rest the conspiracy theory about flight 77. Judicial Watch is going to post a video of the plane hitting the Pentagon today.

From CNN:


edit: their site is already getting hammered, but my guess is that the video will show up soon enough on other sites.

They will be called "fakes" by the nutters so it won't really solve anything. The only people who will believe are those that already do.

[Dakar]

Smac beat me to it.

OMG CG Plane!

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Why in the world did they take this long to release it. It just makes the people who cry fake more credible.

Perhaps it is being rendered in real time on a PS3

[abe]

Here's a link to a pretty entertaining conspiracy theory presentation of the Pentagon NON-AIRLINER ATTACK.

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2...entagon-p1.php

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Why in the world did they take this long to release it. It just makes the people who cry fake more credible.

Eaxactly. Now people will think they took this time to get all the details right.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Well the new footage looks exactly like the old footage so it isn't even news worthy. Stupid.

[PacHead]

I believe that there is a leftist conspiracy which consists of extremely stupid people who pollute the internet with stupid and laughable 9-11 conspiracy theories. Seriously, what kind of a perverted retard believes in such garbage ?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Seriously, what kind of a perverted retard believes in such garbage ?

Just look at the number of people who believe everything Bush says and you got yer answer.

[HackManDan]

If you press the ‘share’ button at the bottom right of the video window, it pops up a window where you can email the link from. Under, ‘Add a personal message’, it automatically puts in “This video is awesome!”

You think for a video like this they could have changed the default text.

[Rumor]

A plane never hit the pentagon. It was the damn interns lighting thier farts.