[♥]

If our country could pump oil from the so-called "environmentally protected" areas instead of being dependent on the Middle Eastern crude, wouldn't we (the United States) and other countries be in a much better position?

So many areas of this country are now off-limits to drilling (the Gulf of Mexico; Alaska, etc.,) because of environmentalist agendas.

If we could actually produce our own oil instead of depending on other countries we would provide jobs in our country, boost our own economy, and add to the oil reserves available to the rest of the world.

Instead we're at $111.80+ a barrel today and it's going higher.

[peeb]

This has been dealt with in other threads, the short answer is 'no'.

[Uncle Skeleton]

You don't think the US produces oil already?

[subego]

Do you really want an answer, or is this a troll?

[osiris]

I suspect a troll. Sounds too Ann Coulteresque.

[subego]

I guess this is the case with Ann too, but there are things in her post that brush against someone who knows someone who has an uncle with a valid point.

It's also just so gosh darn good natured, every response I've come up with so far felt like I was kicking a puppy.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by ♥ 

If our country could pump oil from the so-called "environmentally protected" areas instead of being dependent on the Middle Eastern crude, wouldn't we (the United States) and other countries be in a much better position?

So many areas of this country are now off-limits to drilling (the Gulf of Mexico; Alaska, etc.,) because of environmentalist agendas.

If we could actually produce our own oil instead of depending on other countries we would provide jobs in our country, boost our own economy, and add to the oil reserves available to the rest of the world.

Instead we're at $111.80+ a barrel today and it's going higher.

I'm sure if they were going to pump oil from your community you wouldn't be down with it.

"Let someone else deal with an oil rig, I'm to stubborn to pay for the cheapest gas in the world!"

Get over it, you can afford current gas prices. It's going to get worse so maybe that Suburban of yours isn't in your price range anymore.

[BadKosh]

Same can be said for the Nuke plants too.

[peeb]

I love that they are 'so-called "environmentally protected"' areas. I guess they are called that because they are 'environmentally protected'?

[sek929]

Same can be said for the CapeWind project. The rich people in Nantucket decided they didn't want an awesome wind farm off the coast. Not only would it barely be visible from land on a clear day, Nantucket is ALWAYS windy.

What do they care? The coal plant and Nuke plant are in poor people's backyards, not theirs.

[Big Mac]

If and when Americans see gas hit $4.00 next year they'll start really beating at the doors of the Congressmen. It's not quite painful enough for the country yet to produce the needed clamor for additional supply. When it becomes the focus of polls politicians will take notice.

[peeb]

Why should politicians try to regulate the price of gas? Gas needs to be around five times the price it is now, but regardless, it's always funny to hear conservatives clamoring for socialized gasoline.

[Face Ache]

Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.

I post before you today to seek permission to change my beloved but well-worn signature to this Quote of Quality™.

greg

[RobOnTheCape]

Liberal responsible for high gas prices? - you could just as well say conservatives dragged their heels to the table to start investing in alternative energy sources. Either way it's not that simple. I'd rather it's the citizens themselves who are to blame. Drill in Alaska so I can pick up my kid in a Chevy Suburban. Go to Europe and see just how many people drive a suburban sized rigs.Very few. If we consumed on par with the rest of the industrialized world, then perhaps we wouldn't need all the oil we seem to do. Consume less and there's less demand, and prices may go down. Of course that was before China and India. Now they look at the US and say "Who the **** are you to tell us to use less oil. They are quire right.

[♥]

Nicely spoken from Martha's Vineyard where life is oh-so-tough.

[tie]

Gas prices are high because OPEC chooses to make them high. OPEC chooses to make them high because they know that the US, under Bush, will do nothing to reduce oil consumption no matter how high the prices are. An additional 10-15% of the gas price comes from the Iraq war.

So no, it is your fault. Send me a check if you'd like to take responsibility.

[Chongo]

not so much liberals or conservationists, but environmentalists
Owlgore was advocating $5 a gallon prices via gas taxes, as they are in in most of the EU. It is not so much the "protected" areas, but any area, even current oil fields are off limits. As I mentioned in another thread; every time the US makes move towards more domestic production OPEC, like any smart dope dealer, drops prices to keep us hooked on their product.

[♥]

every time the US makes move towards more domestic production OPEC, like any smart dope dealer, drops prices to keep us hooked on their product.

Great comment.

Next thing you know the Saudis will be demanding that we buy their oil in Euros only, also.

Meanwhile, Al "Hypocrite" Gore keeps on flying his "green" private jets all over the planet on the way to parties that celebrate "going green."

[peeb]

Nice troll - when your initial troll gets dismissed so completely, post an inflammatory but irrelevant comment about a prominent progressive!

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ♥ 

If our country could pump oil from the so-called "environmentally protected" areas instead of being dependent on the Middle Eastern crude, wouldn't we (the United States) and other countries be in a much better position?

So many areas of this country are now off-limits to drilling (the Gulf of Mexico; Alaska, etc.,) because of environmentalist agendas.

If we could actually produce our own oil instead of depending on other countries we would provide jobs in our country, boost our own economy, and add to the oil reserves available to the rest of the world.

Even if you could pump every drop of crude in America, you couldn't even come close to removing America's dependence on Middle Eastern crude.

There are only two ways American can end it's dependence on Middle Eastern crude:
1. Make Middle Eastern crude american crude
2. End America's dependence on crude, Middle Eastern or otherwise.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by peeb 

Why should politicians try to regulate the price of gas? Gas needs to be around five times the price it is now, but regardless, it's always funny to hear conservatives clamoring for socialized gasoline.

I didn't say regulate. Do just what the OP is advocating - remove government impediments to greater domestic levels of production.

[Shaddim]

It's very easy to understand, we're using up everyone else's oil before we thoroughly tap the resources we have available (ANWR and such). When countries in the ME start running out or slowing production, by an appreciable amount, we'll be displacing wildlife so fast it'll give you (and them) whiplash.

[Big Mac]

You mean like now, Shaddim?

I personally think that there's a huge premium in the price of oil due to Iraq. The price of oil was around $40 pre-invasion. . .

[OreoCookie]

`Liberals' are not responsible for what OPEC decides. Plus, they weren't the ones who decided to go to Iraq no matter what (they went along with it, though). The independence on Middle Eastern oil is nothing but a pipe dream.

To think that oil prices -- something that's dependent on international politics, particularly demand -- can be regulated by one nation is naïve. I mean this in both ways.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by peeb 

Why should politicians try to regulate the price of gas? Gas needs to be around five times the price it is now, but regardless, it's always funny to hear conservatives clamoring for socialized gasoline.

Realizing of course that it is not poor people driving around in Prius', it's funny to see liberals propose a policy of "sock it to the poor".

[♥]

Finally, a GREAT idea from the liberals regarding oil:

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Even if you could pump every drop of crude in America, you couldn't even come close to removing America's dependence on Middle Eastern crude.

There are only two ways American can end it's dependence on Middle Eastern crude:
1. Make Middle Eastern crude american crude
2. End America's dependence on crude, Middle Eastern or otherwise.

Exactly. As has been firmly established in another thread on exactly this topic, the amount of oil in ANWAR is about a year's worth of US consumption. That's about the same amount of oil as would be saved by everyone running their tires at the right pressure. Destroying America's last wild areas for this amount of oil is counterproductive and stupid, and won't make any substantial impact on oil prices or availability.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by ♥ 

Nicely spoken from Martha's Vineyard where life is oh-so-tough.

So life is easy on an island where everything is double the price? You should see gas prices on MV and Nantucket.

Once again, why are we bitching about gas prices when we get the cheapest fuel in the world?

[sek929]

Originally Posted by ♥ 

Meanwhile, Al "Hypocrite" Gore keeps on flying his "green" private jets all over the planet on the way to parties that celebrate "going green."

How else would he travel the world to spread awareness, on a f**king bicycle?

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

It's very easy to understand, we're using up everyone else's oil before we thoroughly tap the resources we have available (ANWR and such). When countries in the ME start running out or slowing production, by an appreciable amount, we'll be displacing wildlife so fast it'll give you (and them) whiplash.

I'd have to agree with you. Once the ME starts running low they'll realize they've lost the only thing that made them important in any way.

American oil companies aren't dumb, they are keeping their oil to themselves and buying it cheap off of everyone else.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by sek929 

How else would he travel the world to spread awareness, on a f**king bicycle?

He could fly steerage coach

[sek929]

Just hope he doesn't sit next to people like Buckaroo...

"I read a blog comment that PROVES you are a phony and cult-leader!"

[Eug]

Just a note for those who may be unaware, the largest supplier of oil to the US is Canada.

Originally Posted by ♥ 

Next thing you know the Saudis will be demanding that we buy their oil in Euros only, also.

Actually, the Saudis are adamant that the US dollar be kept for oil pricing, while their partners in OPEC are demanding moving away from the US dollar.

Mind you it all evens out in the end, because as the lousy US buck gets lousier, the prices simply eventually go up in US$.

Meanwhile, Al "Hypocrite" Gore keeps on flying his "green" private jets all over the planet on the way to parties that celebrate "going green."

Yup. Al Gore himself is responsible for the world's high oil prices.

P.S. Not that I'm a fan of Gore or anything, and I don't agree with his jetting around in private jets wasting fuel, but it should be noted that Gore actually purchases carbon offsets for much of his use. Yeah, he may be a hypocrite, but it's not as if that's a big surprise anyway.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by peeb 

Destroying America's last wild areas for this amount of oil is counterproductive and stupid, and won't make any substantial impact on oil prices or availability.

Though, it would make alot of money for a handful of people.

[RobOnTheCape]

"Nicely spoken from Martha's Vineyard where life is oh-so-tough."

Nice place to visit, and wonderful if you can afford it, but this island happens to be the poorest county in the state. Most here scrape by til the summer season.

btw - Unleaded is running about 3.90 a gallon here already.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by RobOnTheCape 

"Nicely spoken from Martha's Vineyard where life is oh-so-tough."

Nice place to visit, and wonderful if you can afford it, but this island happens to be the poorest county in the state. Most here scrape by til the summer season.

What's with the Class War posturing?

Originally Posted by RobOnTheCape 

btw - Unleaded is running about 3.90 a gallon here already.

It needs to be about five times more than that.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by peeb 

It needs to be about five times more than that.

For what?

I do agree though that Americans complain far too much about gas prices, considering they're way lower in the US than in most other countries.

[Dakar the Fourth]

I try not to complain but the rate they're going up at is annoying.

[RobOnTheCape]

No class warfare here. I noticed the smile and know how the comment was meant. Just wanted to correct a common misnomer. Sorry to derail.
btw - I think if we consumed less, we wouldn't have such prices. Thus I disagree about the need for gas prices to be 5 x more expensive. Flourescent lighting, fewer SUVs, higher mpg minimums, solar/wind/radiant/passive solar, and countless other ways we can reduce dependency on foreign oil could help tremendously.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by RobOnTheCape 

Flourescent lighting, fewer SUVs, higher mpg minimums, solar/wind/radiant/passive solar, and countless other ways we can reduce dependency on foreign oil could help tremendously.

I agree with that.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by RobOnTheCape 

Flourescent lighting, fewer SUVs, higher mpg minimums, solar/wind/radiant/passive solar, and countless other ways we can reduce dependency on foreign oil could help tremendously.

Originally Posted by peeb 

I agree with that.

Yes, those are all excellent ways to reduce dependency on OPEC oil, but not in my back yard is what you get.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Yes, those are all excellent ways to reduce dependency on OPEC oil, but not in my back yard is what you get.

Maybe with the florescent lighting.

I mean, ewwww.

[peeb]

Have you seen modern fluorescent lighting? Perhaps you have and didn't realise that it was fluorescent. Certainly I would vote for fewer SUVs and less tailpipe emissions in my back yard - have you seen the air quality in some major US cities lately? Solar panels don't need to go in your yard, but can go on your roof or in the desert, so few people actually object to those, leaving wind, which I'll give you - that stirs up controversy over sites.

[subego]

Originally Posted by peeb 

Have you seen modern fluorescent lighting? Perhaps you have and didn't realise that it was fluorescent.

It's useless to me if I can't slap a dimmer on it.

[Uncle Skeleton]

"Dim lighting is the sub-ego's best friend"
-Sigmund Freud

[Eug]

I went out and bought a bunch of dimmable compact fluorescent bulbs. Cost me $$$. They suck. Or at least the couple of brands I bought (the only ones available locally, including GE) sucked.

The minimum light output is much higher than the minimum light output of tungsten light bulbs, and even worse, the colour is this sickly yellow grey when dimmed. Apparently there are light bulbs out there with better colour, but they cost twice as much and still have the too-high-minimum-light-output problem (assuming they're even dimmable in the first place).

As for solar panels on the roof, they cost an arm and a leg to install, and around here would be problematic because of the amount of snow buildup.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Wah wah wah

Well, it is true that for any solution, there are some applications and places where it is not suitable. While it's fascinating that you absolutely must dim every bulb you have, but most people don't do that. Likewise living in Siberia - for most people that isn't an issue.

[olePigeon]

It's obvious people (Americans especially) love driving big SUVs and pickups. I think a large portion of the problem stems from the auto companies. They keep lobbying (bribing) the Congress to keep SUVs labeled as light pickups. They're the new minivan, plain and simple.

The technology is cheap enough and it is available to have big huge SUVs and raised 4x4 pickups get 40 mpg, but then the auto companies wouldn't get kickbacks from the government.

[peeb]

Why don't car companies make 2 wheel drive versions of SUVs for the 99% of the market whose only off road experience is the supermarket parking lot?