[analogue SPRINKLES]

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/

"A great video processor powers a great display. The new MacBook Pro is available in 15-inch models with a new mercury-free, power-efficient LED-backlit display and a 17-inch model with an optional 1920-by-1200 pixel display."

[phoenix78]

17 is not LED though. ( from what i can tell)

15" is LED for matte and glossy. I wonder how the matte will look with a LED backlight. I have only ever seen it with glossy. It wouldnt be too much different from what we already have right?

Just would be brighter and evenly illuminated for once ( fingers crossed!!!!!)

[mpancha]

What exactly does backlit LED do better than the LCD monitor I already have?

Theoretically you should get better battery life from what I can tell, and I guess it would be brighter. But according to the specs I read on apple.com, the battery life is the same. From my understanding, the biggest drain on battery power is 1) the screen 2) wireless and 3) optical drive usage.

[dmcnickle]

The glossy option is $50 cheaper which makes me wonder whether the glossy is the same as the old display.

[phoenix78]

LED is capable of delivering very bright even illumination. The colours can also be more vivid as the whites are whiter etc...

Also, the brightness of LED decays much slower. Contains no mercury and uses less power.... so its better in general in every aspect. As far as im aware the only issue is that it is only currently viable in no larger than 15". (correct me if im wrong).

rob

[MacosNerd]

I don't want to be on the bleeding edge, so I'm going to wait and see how these turn out. <- that's just a fancy excuse instead of saying my wife won't let me spend $$$

Seriously because of some of the heat issues with the first generation of MBs (and I think MBPs) I'm a little gun shy. The LED backlight could be a nice feature but only time and usage will find that out.

[tiger]

Now that the MacBook Pros are more or less equally configured, which one is a better buy? The only real difference I see is double the Graphics Memory and a Minimal increase in Processor speed.

Is it worth the extra $500?

[MacosNerd]

You also get a 160gig drive over 120 but your point remains.

[mpancha]

MacosNerd >> I'm with you, but of course I'm only saying that b/c my MBP is only 1 month old and its the only way I can feel better about not holding out that month. Besides that though, as much as I hate to say it, version 2 or 3 of any Apple technological innovation is always the one to buy, unless you have the money to spend on all versions.

tiger >> Wether or not the extra $500 is worth it depends on your needs. I personally saved the extra cost in getting the extra vram and processor speed bump, had no use for it. Your uses though may differ. What do you plan on doing with your MBP?

[tiger]

Generally I do most of my graphics intensive work on the Mac Pros, the MacBook Pro would just be my home machine... Some graphics work here and there, maybe a game once in a while (no hard core gaming). The MacBooks are out of the questions.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I don't understand the LED thing either... is it on every 15" model? My client just ordered it online but at no point does it make mention of the LED screen so he is nervous.

[tiger]

The 15 inch MacBook Pros have LED screens.

[mpancha]

tiger >> in that case it doesn't sound like the extra $500 is worth it, I wouldn't spend it if I were you.

analogueSprinkles >> according to the site all 15" MBPs this day forward will have the LED screens. If your client just ordered it, they'll get one with an LED screen. That's how Apple usually handles these things.

Honestly the one thing I'm going to miss out on is the Santa Rosa chip, its just an all around more efficient laptop CPU, but again, its the first version of the chip from Intel, and the first time Apple has used the chip as well. Too many firsts for me to feel comfy.

[dmcnickle]

I just talked to apple and the guy I talked to said the new LED backlight is only in the original matte and not available with the glossy display. This is different than the website. Does anyone know anything else about this?

[tiger]

Originally Posted by dmcnickle 

I just talked to apple and the guy I talked to said the new LED backlight is only in the original matte and not available with the glossy display. This is different than the website. Does anyone know anything else about this?

That would explain the $50 drop in price when selecting the glossy display option.

[tiger]

Does anyone know how much increase in performance the new 8600M GT has over the X1600?

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by mpancha 

But according to the specs I read on apple.com, the battery life is the same.

No.

It's now 6 hours for the 15" (was 5 hours) and 5.75 hours for the 17" (was 5.5).

[tiger]

Originally Posted by Morpheus 

No.

It's now 6 hours for the 15" (was 5 hours) and 5.75 hours for the 17" (was 5.5).

So does the 17 inch have an LED display then?

[tavin64]

17 in mbp has no LED display. Right now only the 15" ones do. As far as first revisions of hardware this is intel we are talking about. They have been making motherboards for years and are known to be rock solid stable. This might have held true back in the day with the powerpc chips but its a whole new set of rules now with intel.

[yoyoman]

NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processor with dual-link DVI support and 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM but why not 512MB of ram?

[tavin64]

Originally Posted by yoyoman 

NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processor with dual-link DVI support and 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM but why not 512MB of ram?

Less battery life. Macbook Pros are not really considered gaming laptops. Which is where the 512bm of ram would really come in handy.

[yoyoman]

The glossy screen is not going to be better in picture quality only batter life they said.
Apple claims users can see a battery-life benefit of between 30 mins - 1 hour (depending on use). They did not have stats on exact efficiencies between LED and CCFL backlit displays.
The new LED backlight is the same brightness: 300 vs 300 nits of the previous gen's CCFL
The viewing angle is also the same as before In other words, besides faster time from fully-off to full-brightness and an increase in battery life, Apple claims users should notice absolutely no perceivable difference between last-gen displays and the new LED-backlit ones.

[yoyoman]

Originally Posted by yoyoman 

The glossy screen is not going to be better in picture quality only batter life they said.
Apple claims users can see a battery-life benefit of between 30 mins - 1 hour (depending on use). They did not have stats on exact efficiencies between LED and CCFL backlit displays.
The new LED backlight is the same brightness: 300 vs 300 nits of the previous gen's CCFL
The viewing angle is also the same as before In other words, besides faster time from fully-off to full-brightness and an increase in battery life, Apple claims users should notice absolutely no perceivable difference between last-gen displays and the new LED-backlit ones.

Hello? Boot camp and Parallels. Gaming is great on apple computers. I would buy two batterys for travling any how.

[tavin64]

Its all about battery life and greener for the environment. But then again the new baseline 15in mbp comes stacked now. $1799 with my edu discount is not bad at all.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by mpancha 

Honestly the one thing I'm going to miss out on is the Santa Rosa chip, its just an all around more efficient laptop CPU, but again, its the first version of the chip from Intel, and the first time Apple has used the chip as well. Too many firsts for me to feel comfy.

The CPU is the same (Merom on a 65nm process), just a slight tweak to the FSB speed. The chipset (965PM) is also a minor update to the previous (945PM), with support for the higher FSB and a full 4GB memory.

Unless Apple really screwed something up, this is a very low risk update.

[IronPen]

Originally Posted by mpancha 

tiger >>
Honestly the one thing I'm going to miss out on is the Santa Rosa chip, its just an all around more efficient laptop CPU, but again, its the first version of the chip from Intel, and the first time Apple has used the chip as well. Too many firsts for me to feel comfy.

You have beefy machines as it is, including that C2D MBP, so why do you care?

[olePigeon]

MacBook Pro's what?

[yoyoman]

http://barefeats.com/quick.html

June 5th, 2007 -- Performance Analysis of the new MacBook Pro: This is the "Santa Rosa" model all us speed freaks have been waiting for. The key performance enhancements include:
a) faster frontside bus (800MHz)
b) faster GPU (GeForce 8600M)
c) greater memory expansion (now up to 4GB)
d) bigger 7200rpm hard drive (now 160GB option)

[CharlesS]

So apparently Apple is using Santa Rosa as a differentiator between the MacBook and MacBook Pro. This just seems silly to me - how many consumers even know what Santa Rosa is? And those that do know about Santa Rosa know that on a machine that has dedicated graphics like the MBP, Santa Rosa isn't a big deal.

I guess this means that the MacBook line won't get Santa Rosa until something new comes out to make it obsolete.

[yoyoman]

GeForce 8600M - Notebook and Laptop
Looks nice. If I put this in swaped the hd with flash drive. Than battery issue is not a problem. Plus with the new cpu and less watts come on.
GeForce
8600M GS
Stream Processors 16
Core Clock (MHz) 600
Shader Clock (MHz) 1200
Memory Clock (MHz) 700
Maximum Memory 512MB
Memory Interface 128-bit 1

[Dark Goob]

Has anyone actually used one of the matte-display 15" LED models yet? Does the screen still have the grainy/sparkly display problems of the previous-generation matte-display 15" MacBook Pro? Or is it nice and smooth like the last PowerBook G4's screen? In other words, is Apple still using a 6-bit LCD with hardware spacio-temporal dithering from the GPU to simulate 8-bit, or have they gone back to actual 8-bit panels?

Also, as to the differences with the NVIDIA 8600M GT, from NVIDIA's site:
> > >
With support for Microsoft® DirectX® 10 Shader Model 4.0 and High Dynamic-Range Lighting (HDR), the GeForce 8600M GPUs let you rip through all of today's most advanced and cutting-edge games and applications. Experience real-time photo editing, or immerse yourself in the most complex, true-to-life gaming environments ever experienced on your thin and light notebook PC. And since all GeForce 8 Series GPUs are designed to support Windows Vista™ you can rest assured that you'll be enjoying your notebook PC well into the future.

NVIDIA PureVideo Technology
The GeForce 8600M GPUs with NVIDIA® PureVideo™ technology deliver unmatched HD video performance to your thin and light notebook PC. Take your DVDs on the road with you and view stutter-free, incredibly life-like video without the annoying artifacts and imperfections of traditional PC-based video solutions.
[too bad the MacBook Pro's lack a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray Disc BTO option~!~!]

NVIDIA PowerMizer Technology
Intelligent Power for a greener world! As the world is faced with ever increasing demands on its resources, every opportunity to eliminate wasted power can help. NVIDIA® PowerMizer™ technology is an intelligent power management solution that can effectively extend battery life and eliminate wasted power while providing performance on demand.

NVIDIA® Unified Architecture

* Unified shader architecture
* GigaThread™ technology
* Full support for Microsoft® DirectX® 10
o Geometry shaders
o Geometry instancing
o Streamed output
o Shader Model 4.0
* Full 128-bit floating point precision through the entire rendering pipeline

NVIDIA Lumenex™ Engine

* 16x full screen anti-aliasing
* Transparent multisampling and transparent supersampling
* 16x angle independent anisotropic filtering
* 128-bit floating point high dynamic-range (HDR) lighting with anti-aliasing
o 32-bit per component floating point texture filtering and blending
* Advanced lossless compression algorithms for color, texture, and z-data
* Support for normal map compression
* Z-cull
* Early-Z

NVIDIA SLI™ Technology1

* Patented hardware and software technology allows two GeForce-based graphics cards to run in parallel to scale performance and enhance image quality on today's top titles.

NVIDIA PureVideo™ HD Technology 2

* Dedicated on-chip video processor
* High-definition H.264, VC-1, MPEG2 and WMV9 decode acceleration
* Advanced spatial-temporal de-interlacing
* HDCP capable 3
* Noise Reduction
* Edge Enhancement
* Bad Edit Correction
* Inverse telecine (2:2 and 3:2 pull-down correction)
* High-quality scaling
* Video color correction
* Microsoft® Video Mixing Renderer (VMR) support


Advanced Display Functionality

* Dual-link DVI outputs for digital flat panel display resolutions up to 2560x1600
* Dual integrated 400MHz RAMDACs for analog display resolutions up to and including 2048x1536 at 85Hz
* Integrated HDTV encoder provides analog TV-output (Component/Composite/S-Video) up to 1080i/1080p resolution
* NVIDIA nView® multi-display technology capability
* 10-bit display processing

Built for Microsoft® Windows Vista™ [@.@]

* Full DirectX 10 support (see above similar comment)
* Dedicated graphics processor powers the new Windows Vista Aero 3D user interface
* VMR-based video architecture

High Speed Interfaces

* Designed for PCI Express® x16
* Designed for high-speed GDDR3 & cost-competitive DDR2 memory

Operating Systems

* Built for Microsoft Windows Vista
* Windows XP/Windows XP 64
* Linux
[MacOSX too apparently~!~!]

API Support

* Complete DirectX support, including Microsoft DirectX 10 Shader Model 4.0
* Full OpenGL® support, including OpenGL 2.1
< < <

Also, the GT version seems to be the lesser of the two 8600M's (GS appearing to be the better version?). The GT sports:
32 Stream Processors (16 on GS)
475 MHz Core Clock (600 on GS)
950 MHz Shader Clock (1200 on GS)
700 MHz Memory Clock (same on both)
512 MB maximum memory [oh well!]
128-bit memory interface

Maybe the GT is better though, having 32 processors instead of 16, even though each processor is slower? Can't really tell from these specs. It seems Asus and other brands use the GT on their higher-end machines, so my guess it that indeed the GT is better.

Still though, I'm surprised and disappointed Apple does not offer a 512MB BTO option, since my gosh, all this talk about 3D only being for gaming is (excuse me) BULLS&*%. I am a 3D designer/virtual reality programmer and it's critically important. I have used Macs since 1984 and screw you if you expect me to switch platforms just to get better 3D cards. I have waited for this new generation of MacBook Pro since, for me, having the best possible graphics card is extremely important. Maybe the 512MB option is just not available from NVIDIA yet?

Anyway, the 8600M GT is way better than the old X1600 Radeon. The X1600 only supports DirectX 9 and OpenGL 2.0 (as opposed to 10 and 2.1 with the 8600M series). However the X1600 has integrated hardware MPEG-4 and DiVX codecs which the 8600M lacks -- though something tells me the Core 2 Duo processor can pick up some of the slack there. The anti-aliasing is way better on the 8600M -- up to 16x vs. only 6x on the X1600. HDR lighting is 128-bit instead of 64-bit, as well.

All-in-all, it's definitely a step forward, especially if you intend to run Vista and/or do anything that requires a 3D graphics card, such as V.R. and/or gaming.

-=DG=-

[yoyoman]

Apple should use 512 and than go to flash drives and a better battery or a bigger battery that covers the whole bottom of the laptop. It may be a tad thicker but that is not a issue.

[yoyoman]

PQI debuts 256GB 2.5-inch SSD drive - Engadget I will get that sucker in my new mbp. How much faster will it be not sure but longer battery life most likely. Back every thing up on a external since it is flash.

How long is the life cycle of a flash hd vs a disc hd?

[Dark Goob]

Does anyone know what the total firewire bus speed is on the new model of MacBook Pro? On my PowerBook G4, even though it has a FW 800 and a FW 400 port, you cannot use the 800 and 400 at the same time since the maximum bus bandwidth is 800 (you have to get a FW PC-CARD to use both). Anyone know if the new MacBook Pro would require a FW Express Card to use both 800 and 400 simultaneously?

-=DG=-

[Dark Goob]

You realize that the 256GB SSD drive is going to cost well over $1,000 right? If not $2-3k?

I think I'll stick with hard drives for awhile. Though I wonder if OS X will allow the OS to boot from a 32GB SSD ExpressCard... which might actually be affordable.

-=DG=-

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Dark Goob 

In other words, is Apple still using a 6-bit LCD with hardware spacio-temporal dithering from the GPU to simulate 8-bit, or have they gone back to actual 8-bit panels?

Quoted for concern. Anyone know?

[NeutrinoMan]

Originally Posted by tiger 

That would explain the $50 drop in price when selecting the glossy display option.

I don't see where you're seeing this. The Apple Store is not deducting $50 for the glossy.

Both the glossy and matte 15" are LED lit. Don't know what the other poster is talking about regarding the glossy not being LED.

[dmcnickle]

Originally Posted by NeutrinoMan 

I don't see where you're seeing this. The Apple Store is not deducting $50 for the glossy.

Both the glossy and matte 15" are LED lit. Don't know what the other poster is talking about regarding the glossy not being LED.

When I called Apple, a person there told me that the glossy display on the new MacBook Pro was the old display and not the LED. I am just telling you what they told me

[giggs11]

Originally Posted by Dark Goob 

Has anyone actually used one of the matte-display 15" LED models yet? Does the screen still have the grainy/sparkly display problems of the previous-generation matte-display 15" MacBook Pro? Or is it nice and smooth like the last PowerBook G4's screen? In other words, is Apple still using a 6-bit LCD with hardware spacio-temporal dithering from the GPU to simulate 8-bit, or have they gone back to actual 8-bit panels?

The new laptops were just announced today, so I'm guessing they won't be in stores for at least a few days.

I'm also waiting on some reviews of the new screen, though I'm most likely going to have to replace my 12" Rev C PowerBook this summer regardless. Unless they is some sort of horrible defect with these MBPs, I'll definitely be picking one up.

[Chris Grande]

Once slight case change is they evened up the top part of the bezel where the iSight is, its now the same thickness all the way around. This was something that always slightly bugged me about my CDMBP. See here: http://geeksugar.com/296213

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

They are in stores. A friend just bought two at the NY Soho location (the hipster Apple dude didn't even realize it until my friend made him double check)

[giggs11]

Originally Posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn 

They are in stores. A friend just bought two at the NY Soho location (the hipster Apple dude didn't even realize it until my friend made him double check)

Cool, I'll have to stop by my local Apple Store in that case. Thanks for the info.

[NeutrinoMan]

Originally Posted by dmcnickle 

When I called Apple, a person there told me that the glossy display on the new MacBook Pro was the old display and not the LED. I am just telling you what they told me

Well, you talked to a moron. I just phoned Apple, and they confirmed that BOTH the matte and glossy 15" macbook pros ship with LED backlighting.

Time to order mine! As Homer Simpson once said, "Outta my way, jerk-ass!"

[macuser9909]

I am interested in the new MBP, however I have the lower end model MacBook and would like to sell it. Does anyone know what are these machines are selling for?

[starman]

1920x1200?

/buy

I've been wanting one for a LOOOOOOOOOONG time.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

So apparently Apple is using Santa Rosa as a differentiator between the MacBook and MacBook Pro. This just seems silly to me - how many consumers even know what Santa Rosa is? And those that do know about Santa Rosa know that on a machine that has dedicated graphics like the MBP, Santa Rosa isn't a big deal.

I guess this means that the MacBook line won't get Santa Rosa until something new comes out to make it obsolete.

Until someone buys one and tells us what wifi card is inside, it is not confirmed that the new MacBook Pro is using Santa Rosa. Santa Rosa is a complete platform in the Centrino family, and it requires three things: a mobile Intel CPU, a mobile Intel chipset, and Intel PRO/Wireless wifi.
For Santa Rosa those are a Merom CPU, a Crestline (965PM or GM) chipset, and Intel 4965AGN wifi; the new MBP has the first two, but in the past Apple has used a non-Intel (Atheros, I think) wifi chipset.

Originally Posted by Dark Goob 

Also, the GT version seems to be the lesser of the two 8600M's (GS appearing to be the better version?). The GT sports:
32 Stream Processors (16 on GS)
475 MHz Core Clock (600 on GS)
950 MHz Shader Clock (1200 on GS)
700 MHz Memory Clock (same on both)
512 MB maximum memory [oh well!]
128-bit memory interface

<snip>

Anyway, the 8600M GT is way better than the old X1600 Radeon. The X1600 only supports DirectX 9 and OpenGL 2.0 (as opposed to 10 and 2.1 with the 8600M series). However the X1600 has integrated hardware MPEG-4 and DiVX codecs which the 8600M lacks -- though something tells me the Core 2 Duo processor can pick up some of the slack there. The anti-aliasing is way better on the 8600M -- up to 16x vs. only 6x on the X1600. HDR lighting is 128-bit instead of 64-bit, as well.

For nVidia cards, the GT is higher performance and the GS is lower performance. They reduce the clockrate slightly on the GT to keep power consumption down, but doubling the number of processors still results in higher performance.

The 8600 (desktop and mobile) chips accelerate H.264 and VC-1 (in addition to MPEG4 and MPEG2 like the previous version) decoding, and do four parts of the decoding process instead of just two (as the previous generation of cards did). Details for the mobile chip and benchmarks for the desktop version of the chip.

[yoyoman]

Originally Posted by Dark Goob 

You realize that the 256GB SSD drive is going to cost well over $1,000 right? If not $2-3k?

I think I'll stick with hard drives for awhile. Though I wonder if OS X will allow the OS to boot from a 32GB SSD ExpressCard... which might actually be affordable.

-=DG=-

Money is not a issue. Speed is and power consumption is.

I will wait till wwdc to get it.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Dark Goob 

Has anyone actually used one of the matte-display 15" LED models yet? Does the screen still have the grainy/sparkly display problems of the previous-generation matte-display 15" MacBook Pro? Or is it nice and smooth like the last PowerBook G4's screen? In other words, is Apple still using a 6-bit LCD with hardware spacio-temporal dithering from the GPU to simulate 8-bit, or have they gone back to actual 8-bit panels?

APPLE NEVER USED 8-BIT PANELS ON THEIR LAPTOPS!

The PowerBooks used 6-bit panels too. Most laptops do, because that's all that's been available. Perhaps the dithering method changed from one type of screen to the next.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Quoted for concern. Anyone know?

Once again, APPLE NEVER USED 8 BIT PANELS!

[P]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

<6-bit panels>
Quoted for concern. Anyone know?

I have it on good authority that they're really only showing three colors, or 1 and a half bit, and that they're tricking you into seeing more...

It doesn't work this way at all with LED backlights. With LED backlights, you can adjust the brightness with more precision - you can have different LEDs for the three colors, you can turn on the LEDs selectively for just the areas you need bright, etc. If you're interested in the display quality, go look at one in person and see if it's good enough for you. The temporal dithering that Apple's using has less of an effect that you might think with modern, low-response time panels - I certainly can't see a difference on those test pictures that's been floating around the web recently, and I know that my iMac G5 has a 6-bit display.