[brassplayersrock²]

I'm looking for a car. I've come down to a matrix or a rav 4. I test drove a matrix today and it's one noisy car.

Also, the reviews I've seen for it are a hodgepodge of good and bad, more bad. Roughly a c+

On the other hand, the Rav4 gets good to great reviews everywhere I'm looking; a bit pricier, but seems worth it if I find a good used one.


Any comments for the cars?

[imitchellg5]

The current Matrix isn't great, it's actually the exact same car as what you drive right now. So if you want more of the same, I guess it'd be good. I've heard of a LOT of problems with the current body style too, especially premature brake wear.

The RAV4 is alright in V6 trim, but the 4 cylinder is sort of heavy and slow (and it only has a 4 speed auto).

I'd suggest the Honda Fit, which is a bit on the noisy side, but handles like none other, is the only in its class with a 5 speed auto, and has a ton of interior room. I'd also highly recommend the Ford Fiesta, which has a 6 speed auto and is easily the quietest and most refined smaller cars on the market. If you'd rather go the RAV4 class, the CR-V is a good choice. It gets great gas mileage and they are surprisingly fun to drive too.

[JaredVader]

The Rav4 is a much better looking vehicle in my opinion. The Matrix even though it has a cool name seems more suited for families. Which is obviously ok but the Rav4 can hold a family and looks a bit more sporty.

[glideslope]

The wife drove a 06 RAV 4 4WD Limited V6 for 90,000. Had a few new model bugs. Biggest were a valve cover oil leak and water pump issues. These were covered under warranty.

She currently has 17,000 on a 2010 RAV 4 Limited V6. It has been perfect from day one. Averages 24 mpg C/H. I don't think the I4 version is underpowered at all. It sure is not the V6, but it is no slouch.

IMO, I'd wait and look at the 2012 CR-V from Honda in a couple weeks.

If not go with the RAV. You can get great deals on the Base I4 4WD right now. Try and find one with the Appearance Pck. The rims are worth it. The Steel rims rust quickly.

[The Godfather]

Test drive a Prius and deduct the cost of gas by driving at 50mpg.

[Shaddim]

What about that Nissan thing-a-mawhatsis? The Rogue, yeah. Sorry, had to look it up. My sister has one, she loves it.

[imitchellg5]

Interior is much worse than the CR-V or RAV4 without being any cheaper.

[Shaddim]

Really? I thought it looked okay and it's comfy. It's not what you'd find in a low range Audi or Beemer, but it isn't awful.

Hey, what about a nice pre-owned A3?

[sek929]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

Test drive a Prius and deduct the cost of gas by driving at 50mpg.

..and then add the premium for buying a hybrid car and see how long it takes you to make up for that with gas savings. A new Honda Civic 4 banger will get 41mpg.

[cjrivera]

I'm hearing good things about the new 2012 Ford Focus.
Looks pretty sharp and gets 38-40mpg.
Some of the options are pretty nice, too.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Really? I thought it looked okay and it's comfy. It's not what you'd find in a low range Audi or Beemer, but it isn't awful.

Hey, what about a nice pre-owned A3?

Yeah, my mum got one and figured if she was gonna live with the dour interior that she wanted a fun car, so she traded it for a Legacy GT.

Certified pre-owned A3 will have a warranty until 100k miles too.

Originally Posted by cjrivera 

I'm hearing good things about the new 2012 Ford Focus.
Looks pretty sharp and gets 38-40mpg.
Some of the options are pretty nice, too.

2012 Ford Focus is one of the best cars I've ever driven.

[SSharon]

If you do look at the Rav 4 or CR-V again I suggest test driving them both for as long as you can. I personally hate driving (and being a passenger in) both of these vehicle. My father in law drives a CR-V and my mother in law drives the Rav 4 so I drive both frequently.

The Rav 4 always feels jumpy to me on the accelerator and the Honda rides like a truck. Is lurchy a word? The back seats of either vehicle make me nauseous so if these are family cars I would spend some time in the back seat and see how they feel.

If I had to choose one over the other I would take the Rav 4, even though I don't like the rear swinging door or the extra blind spots.

I'm in the market for a used car as well, but I'm looking at the Camry/Accord. Good luck with your decision.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by sek929 

..and then add the premium for buying a hybrid car and see how long it takes you to make up for that with gas savings. A new Honda Civic 4 banger will get 41mpg.

Let's come back here in 365 days and see if you can underestimate 25% higher fuel productivity (or, conversely, 20% lower gas guzzability) so easily.

Assuming that a gallon of gas was $1.20 in 1981, and $3.60 today, chances are that by the time that car has reached its mid life, you'll be paying $3.60^(1+0.5/3)=$4.41/gal in 2016.

At 50mpg (20gal/1000miles) vs 41mpg (25gal/1000miles), you'd be saving 5gal or $22.10 per every 1000 miles. When you add up the 100kmiles, the $2210 premium is paid for.

[Shaddim]

Then there's having to put up with a hybrid. The performance is terrible for what you pay, just god-awful.

[imitchellg5]

He got a Lancer.

[brassplayersrock²]

f you little brother! I wanted to tell them.



(not my actual car)

After test driving it, I thought about it, and it was a smidge over what I was going to spend, but for a fully stocked year old car; it's well worth it.

It's also the same blue as shown above. It sparkles

By the way, if anyone is hesitant in using Carmax, don't be. My sales person let me try out 4 different cars, didn't mind at all, let me take my time. Was very knowledgeable, and was a pretty cool guy overall.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

Let's come back here in 365 days and see if you can underestimate 25% higher fuel productivity (or, conversely, 20% lower gas guzzability) so easily.

Assuming that a gallon of gas was $1.20 in 1981, and $3.60 today, chances are that by the time that car has reached its mid life, you'll be paying $3.60^(1+0.5/3)=$4.41/gal in 2016.

At 50mpg (20gal/1000miles) vs 41mpg (25gal/1000miles), you'd be saving 5gal or $22.10 per every 1000 miles. When you add up the 100kmiles, the $2210 premium is paid for.

The top model Civic is a smidge over 21K, the Top model Prius is over 28,000. Hardly a 2100 dollar premium. The bottom tier Civic with the small engine is a full 10K cheaper than the Prius.

Hybrids make no sense.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Then there's having to put up with a hybrid. The performance is terrible for what you pay, just god-awful.

Hybrids are dead-end technology that only serve one useful purpose, making the owner feel better than everyone else. They are twice as complicated as a normal car and their enormous battery arrays are made with all sorts of nasty stuff, and will need to be replaced after 6 or 7 years.

Full Electric, or Hydrogen Fuel cell are the only techs I'm interested in.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Hybrids are dead-end technology that only serve one useful purpose, making the owner feel better than everyone else. They are twice as complicated as a normal car and their enormous battery arrays are made with all sorts of nasty stuff, and will need to be replaced after 6 or 7 years.

Full Electric, or Hydrogen Fuel cell are the only techs I'm interested in.

We made our deposit for a Tesla Model S, really looking forward to that. Looks like the perfect "family" car for us.

Nice choice on the Lancer, BTW. I didn't think about that.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

We made our deposit for a Tesla Model S, really looking forward to that. Looks like the perfect "family" car for us.

So jealous. Even if the Model S weren't electric, I'd want one anyway. Did you consider the Fisker Karma as well?

[sek929]

My dad just bought a new Mazda CX7, very nice car for a little north of 20K. Peppy engine (NA 2.0 4cyl.), very responsive steering and suspension and a decent amount of standard options.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

So jealous. Even if the Model S weren't electric, I'd want one anyway. Did you consider the Fisker Karma as well?

It's still a hybrid, and we didn't want that. The Tesla isn't for road trips, it's for driving around town, and the 250-300mi range is perfect for our needs.

Mostly, though, the Model S is just so drop-dead sexy and cool. We went and saw it at a local show and I had my checkbook out in <10 minutes.

Edit: You know what it reminded me of? The first time you see a brand new Apple product. That type of sexy.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Interesting choice, the Lancer. How is Mitsubishi overall?

Both my wife and I need new cars. (Neither of us has changed cars in 6 years). I'm seriously considering the Outlander Sport, but knowing nothing about Mitsubishi has been giving me that nagging hesitance.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Hybrids are dead-end technology that only serve one useful purpose, making the owner feel better than everyone else. They are twice as complicated as a normal car and their enormous battery arrays are made with all sorts of nasty stuff, and will need to be replaced after 6 or 7 years.

Full Electric, or Hydrogen Fuel cell are the only techs I'm interested in.

That's interesting, I don't see how full electrics are any better than hybrids.

[sek929]

Considering the charging time and range I wouldn't buy one either, not to mention our power grid is nowhere near the capacity needed to switch to electric cars.

The pure electric vehicle is very simple, more so than a regular internal combustion car, and massively more so than the Gas/Electric Hybrids. My point was more mechanical simplicity, not really more useful.

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are the most promising tech yet. 400 mile range, re-fill hydrogen in the same time as filling a gas tank, uses most abundant element in the universe. Of course, creating Hydrogen also requires using massive amounts of electricity.

Really it all boils down to our need for way more power plants in this country, preferably Nuclear.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Considering the charging time and range I wouldn't buy one either, not to mention our power grid is nowhere near the capacity needed to switch to electric cars.

The pure electric vehicle is very simple, more so than a regular internal combustion car, and massively more so than the Gas/Electric Hybrids. My point was more mechanical simplicity, not really more useful.

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are the most promising tech yet. 400 mile range, re-fill hydrogen in the same time as filling a gas tank, uses most abundant element in the universe. Of course, creating Hydrogen also requires using massive amounts of electricity.

Really it all boils down to our need for way more power plants in this country, preferably Nuclear.

That's what I thought.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Considering the charging time and range I wouldn't buy one either, not to mention our power grid is nowhere near the capacity needed to switch to electric cars.

The pure electric vehicle is very simple, more so than a regular internal combustion car, and massively more so than the Gas/Electric Hybrids. My point was more mechanical simplicity, not really more useful.

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are the most promising tech yet. 400 mile range, re-fill hydrogen in the same time as filling a gas tank, uses most abundant element in the universe. Of course, creating Hydrogen also requires using massive amounts of electricity.

Really it all boils down to our need for way more power plants in this country, preferably Nuclear.

The Model S has a 45 minute recharge time to 80% and 4 hours to 100%, that's not bad at all. No, it isn't the usual 2 minute fill up, but it's getting better. At $3 /recharge (vs $40 for 10 gallons of premium gas) , that's real... umm... "change" you can believe in. Plus, it's fast, like V8 Jaguar fast. Kinda looks like one too.

[sek929]

That is alot better than I thought, course if charging time is a big concern just get 2!

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

He got a Lancer.

I would have sworn this was a joke.

[boy8cookie]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Interesting choice, the Lancer. How is Mitsubishi overall?

I love mine! I don't have the hatchback version though (see sig).

[Laminar]

Manual transmission or epic fail?

[brassplayersrock²]

both (as in, you can either have it in automatic, or put it into a manual mode, and use the on wheel switches)

[imitchellg5]

It's a CVT that has paddle shifters to shift through 6 gears manually. I've driven the Outlander Sport with the same setup and it was actually pretty decent at doing a DSG impersonation. The CVT itself isn't too bad either, it doesn't have odd sensation that I got from my mum's Rogue.

[boy8cookie]

I enjoy the CVT in my Ralliart more than the systems in the 2011 BMW M3 & 2011 CTS-V I test drove last week. Of course those cars have more power under the hood, but they didn't seem to respond as nicely when it came to shifting. The CVT is pretty well done, imo.

[imitchellg5]

Oh wait, the Ralliart has the SST dual-clutch box which is always quite good.

(The CTS-V has a traditional torque converter)

[brassplayersrock²]

I did some hill driving today, and it took a little getting used to the different gears (still not used to it) Then again I've only had the car 24 hours.

I got to do my first big haul today, worked like a charm! A couple of round tables with the legs detached. Room to spare.

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I would have sworn this was a joke.

Why? (and since I don't want to go down that road with you again) Why did you think he was joking?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

both (as in, you can either have it in automatic, or put it into a manual mode, and use the on wheel switches)

Oh, so there's a clutch pedal?

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Oh, so there's a clutch pedal?

Have you ever seen a manual gearbox with a clutch that has an automatic mode?

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Oh, so there's a clutch pedal?

Stop being weird. They're called paddle shifters.

n00b

Webpage with pictures of my actual car ( Thank you Carmax)
http://www.carmax.com/enus/carmax-ow...ate=04-18-2011

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

Stop being weird. They're called paddle shifters.

If you reach the end of the rev range in one "gear," does it bounce off the rev limiter or automatically shift to the next "gear?"

[brassplayersrock²]

It will rev until the fuel cutoff at 6,500 RPM. It's some safety do hickey called a REV LIMITER so the engine wont blow up.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

Stop being weird. They're called paddle shifters.

n00b

Webpage with pictures of my actual car ( Thank you Carmax)
2010 Mitsubishi Lancer Pictures and Photo Gallery at CarMax.com

That's a nice color. I haven't seen many Lancers around here lately; too many jerks in Eclipses to allow me to pay better attention. (Do all Eclipse drivers have to be both rude and bad drivers at the same time?) In the picture, please tell me the hood just isn't actually closed properly...it looks like either that or the hood latch is broken.

What's the interior like? Other than the console, that is...

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

It will rev until the fuel cutoff at 6,500 RPM. It's some safety do hickey called a REV LIMITER so the engine wont blow up.

That wasn't what I asked.

[imitchellg5]

Yes it is. It revs until the rev limiter and will bounce off.

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

That's a nice color. I haven't seen many Lancers around here lately; too many jerks in Eclipses to allow me to pay better attention. (Do all Eclipse drivers have to be both rude and bad drivers at the same time?) In the picture, please tell me the hood just isn't actually closed properly...it looks like either that or the hood latch is broken.

What's the interior like? Other than the console, that is...

The hood checks out. I don't know why it's looking like that in the photos. The latch is fine. As you said, it was probably closed wrong after the engine pictures were taken, or something. It looks fine irl.

The interior is great. Leather seats, very very roomy, and comfortable to boot.

The wireless entry/start is amazing to me, my first car (for the past 6 years) had just the basics, also the nav system and bluetooth enabled phone system work great.

[ghporter]

I never thought about getting leather upholstery in a car until I saw my current car; it was a "curb model" with lots of options, including leather. I got it for a significant discount because it had been on the lot (gasp!) over 60 days! None of the add-ons cost me anything, but I think I'd have paid for the leather. It is really nice, especially in hot weather.

[imitchellg5]

They probably just popped the hood for photos and took pics of the exterior first before opening the hood.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

We made our deposit for a Tesla Model S, really looking forward to that. Looks like the perfect "family" car for us.

Nice choice on the Lancer, BTW. I didn't think about that.

Beautiful car. I'm jealous too.
If and when I can afford one I would buy one in an instant. Instead I'm looking into buying another boring used camry.

[brassplayersrock²]

I found two little buttons by the middle seat compartment, pressed the one on my side. Next thing I know my arse was getting hotter. THE SEATS HAVE BUTT WARMERS!


Thanks ssharon, I'm loving the car more and more. (were you talking of the Tesla, or my Lancer?)

[Laminar]

Nobody pines after a Lancer or complains about not being able to afford one.