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shearm · Oct 27, 2003, 11:35 PM

This OS is amazing. It took about 20 minutes to do an archive install. One minor glitch (my Palm conduit had to be reinstalled) and otherwise everything -- my network settings, email settings, etc -- were all preserved.

I gotta say, as a longtime Windows user (I was one of the original beta testers for Windows 95, then called Chicago), I am stunned at how easy this was. I remember upgrading (Windows 3.1 -->3.11-->95-->95se-->ME-->XP) and each time, it was a long, arduous process in which I usually printed out all my complicated TCP/IP settings etc. just in case I had to enter them all in manually -- and that was usually the case.

Now, on my dual 1.42 Powermac, I just spend the evening looking at all the new features, the best of which is expose! That is just amazing. It even works with my EyeTV live TV windows.

I'm sure there are glitches -- this forum is filled with them. But my experience was so smooth, it's scary.

Good luck to everyone else.

Mike

typoon · Oct 27, 2003, 11:44 PM

Welcome to the Mac World. There are many more installs like that as Apple improves OS X.

snerdini · Oct 27, 2003, 11:49 PM

Welcome! I went over to the dark side back in college, but after I graduated, I bought myself a snow iMac and haven't looked back! Since then I've bought a Quicksilver G4, iBook 800, and iPod. Yes, I'm addicted!

mchladek · Oct 28, 2003, 12:29 AM

Hehe. I know what you mean. I decided to do a clean install and get rid of my OS 9 partition and all. I set aside a whole evening to install Panther because I thought it was going to take me several hours. Panther installed in a little over half an hour (would have been less if I hadn't forgotten to choose not to installed the localized resources). Then about a half an hour getting all my docs and settings from backup and reinstalling apps. And after about an hour I was like, "Hmm .... I think that's it". Very simple.

Raman · Oct 28, 2003, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by shearm:
This OS is amazing. It took about 20 minutes to do an archive install. One minor glitch (my Palm conduit had to be reinstalled) and otherwise everything -- my network settings, email settings, etc -- were all preserved.

I gotta say, as a longtime Windows user (I was one of the original beta testers for Windows 95, then called Chicago), I am stunned at how easy this was. I remember upgrading (Windows 3.1 -->3.11-->95-->95se-->ME-->XP) and each time, it was a long, arduous process in which I usually printed out all my complicated TCP/IP settings etc. just in case I had to enter them all in manually -- and that was usually the case.

Now, on my dual 1.42 Powermac, I just spend the evening looking at all the new features, the best of which is expose! That is just amazing. It even works with my EyeTV live TV windows.

I'm sure there are glitches -- this forum is filled with them. But my experience was so smooth, it's scary.

Good luck to everyone else.

Mike

Umm... I hate to tell you but TCP/IP settings are not that complicated. If you're using DHCP on your Mac's because entering a few IP addresses is so hard then theres nothing extra you need to do on a PC. Try using the Professional (i.e. NT, 2kPro, XPPro, 2k3server) line of Windows. Anyone that knows anything knows it's always better to format and install an OS than to upgrade. Yes, even OSX as you will learn, my friend.

Being the beta tester you claim you were, maybe you're the reason why Windows sucks so much now?

kcmac · Oct 28, 2003, 12:55 AM

Wow. That was a little harsh.

I have had very good results with simple upgrades on Jaguar and now on Panther. Same for several other computers for my family.

We all run fairly clean systems, don't install haxies but do try out a fair share of applications, some which stay and some that go.

Please be careful of personal attacks. Life is just too short.

Enjoy.

xi_hyperon · Oct 28, 2003, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by Raman:
Being the beta tester you claim you were, maybe you're the reason why Windows sucks so much now?

I'm sure you're an otherwise pleasant fellow who just happened to wake up with urine in his cereal today.

Cincinnatus · Oct 28, 2003, 02:10 AM

I'll just chime in with shearm: Just completed an upgrade on a G5 from 10.2.8 to 10.3 with nary a problem, save those well documented issues with Norton and iChat. All of the user profiles and shared settings were happily migrated. A quick run of `diskutil repairPermissions` and all is running smoothly. I even have chording on my Kensington Orbit acting as mouse button 4, triggering Expos�'s "All Windows" feature. Why even the few haxies that I have installed work as advertised.

As far as W2K upgrades, it is a generation behind Panther, but I often get BSOD after a MS recommended patch, either a security patch or major service pack. Very disconcerting, but usually non-fatal. Worst case scenarios require a Safe Mode restart, and the BSOD becomes a memory. Given that, its nice to have an upgrade proceed so smoothly as Panther has.

I hope that we're nearing the end of the middle ages of computing where we rely on the voodoo of wipe/install (yes - I know why this is still preferred: I too am guilty of writing software that doesn't clean up after itself as well as it should), and can simply Upgrade. Ahh, utopia...of course, even in this scenario, you should back up all sensitive data & apps (could be that a critical app isn't compatible, you know the drill).

/Cincinnatus

cynikal · Oct 28, 2003, 02:25 AM

Originally posted by Raman:
Umm... I hate to tell you but TCP/IP settings are not that complicated. If you're using DHCP on your Mac's because entering a few IP addresses is so hard then theres nothing extra you need to do on a PC. Try using the Professional (i.e. NT, 2kPro, XPPro, 2k3server) line of Windows. Anyone that knows anything knows it's always better to format and install an OS than to upgrade. Yes, even OSX as you will learn, my friend.

Being the beta tester you claim you were, maybe you're the reason why Windows sucks so much now?

yikes! what crawled up your ass? The guy is praising his new experience having seen the light and you bash him? Ease up a little.. it's not his fault windows isn't as good as it could be, and it doesn't make sense taking it out on him that microsoft has a monopoly. it's rather flawed logic to fault one beta tester for what how windows has turned out.

and besides, windows isn't that bad an o/s.. i've used it for years and somehow learned to use it rather well.. the problem is there's better things out there and a lot of people may never find that out.. now that's what's sad.

Scarpa · Oct 28, 2003, 03:07 AM

Originally posted by Raman:
Umm... I hate to tell you but TCP/IP settings are not that complicated.

Uhh I remember just a few years ago when configuring TCP/IP required knowing a host IP, gateway, couple of DNS servers and perhaps a WINS ip or two. Even being a sysadmin with all of them memorized (sorta) it was a pain in the ass if the install borked or you started from a format on a hangover day. Sure it's not complicated, but it's still a few more things to remember. No need to jump on someone who is clearly pleased with Mac OS.

theolein · Oct 28, 2003, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by Raman:
Umm... I hate to tell you but TCP/IP settings are not that complicated. If you're using DHCP on your Mac's because entering a few IP addresses is so hard then theres nothing extra you need to do on a PC. Try using the Professional (i.e. NT, 2kPro, XPPro, 2k3server) line of Windows. Anyone that knows anything knows it's always better to format and install an OS than to upgrade. Yes, even OSX as you will learn, my friend.

Being the beta tester you claim you were, maybe you're the reason why Windows sucks so much now?

Being the bad mannered person today, what? I've done Windows admin, and if you're using both WINS and DHCP you would have to know more than "just connecting", as you claim. I would be interested to know why you run the guy down when he's happy. Is it because he praises his experience on the Mac relatively to Windows (your inclusion of Win2k3 server makes me think so). If that is the case, may I ask what you are doing here? Surely not simply to troll? You must have better things to do with your time?

S.SubZero · Oct 28, 2003, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by shearm:
I gotta say, as a longtime Windows user (I was one of the original beta testers for Windows 95, then called Chicago), I am stunned at how easy this was. I remember upgrading (Windows 3.1 -->3.11-->95-->95se-->ME-->XP) and each time, it was a long, arduous process in which I usually printed out all my complicated TCP/IP settings etc. just in case I had to enter them all in manually -- and that was usually the case.

Windows 3.1 didn't even have a working TCP/IP stack when it came out in 1992. To contrast, how robust and functional was the TCP/IP stack in Apple's SYSTEM 7 from 1992?

Going from Windows 3.x to Win95 was like going from OS9 to OSX. Anyone here care to highlight how presumably painless this upgrade is?

Whether you used static or dynamic IP information, Windows 95, 98, and ME carry over that information. Going to XP may seem like a huge jump but alot of people went from Win9x to WinXP without too much trouble. Then again, it's the same as before, the OS's are just VERY different. It's no 10.2->10.3 type of thing.

I'm not going to advocate Windows here. But I have a feeling your Windows experience was not typical of most, and I also think you candy-coated it a bit for the sake of the group. OSX is a great OS and Apple is a great hardware maker. You shouldn't need to resort to this type of thing to make them look good. They look good by their own merits.

MusicalTone · Oct 28, 2003, 09:38 AM

Shearm: I gotta echo your sentiments. Upgrading via archive and install is a really great upgrade experience. You get the benefit of a clean install with no cruft and you get to keep your network, email and other settings.

I too was used to the Windows way of doing it and had backed up my entire home folder on a DVD. I needn't have bothered. All my apps and docs were migrated to the new system.

shearm · Oct 28, 2003, 11:39 AM

Thanks, all, for your defense. I actually don't mind the criticism. He's actually right that the TCP/IP settings are not that complicated, just tedious, especially when doing a clean install. I was trying to make the broader point that there seem to be a lot more midless things taken care of automatically by Panther than I ever found in Windows. And having a way to do a clean install without erasing your hard disk and without breaking the installed software is pretty cool.

I'm actually not a Windows hater. I repeatedly tell people that I still would not own a Mac if it was the only machine in my house. I have a WinXP Pro machine, a Win2000 laptop and a couple of older machines in my attic. Given where it came from and how it developed, Windows XP is pretty good. (And there are a few things I still like better in the UI.. For example, I like XP's option to group icons together by date in folders. If you haven't seen it, it's very helpful. I havent found anything quite like it in OS X)

Regarding the beta test, let me just say that I and the others tried mightily to offer suggestions to improve Win95, and I think we were pretty successful, all in all. Keep in mind, this was 1994. I was downloading 50+ megabytes in .cab (installation) files over a 2400-baud modem -- I would download all night while i slept, and then install the next beta version in the morning. Eventually, Microsoft sent us the updates on disk, and finally at the end, on CDROM. By the end of the process, Windows 95 was much, much more stable and a big leap from Windows 3.1

anyway, I've had just a great experience so far with Panther. I hope Apple keeps up the good work.

Mike.

tRr · Oct 28, 2003, 04:45 PM

And there are a few things I still like better in the UI.. For example, I like XP's option to group icons together by date in folders. If you haven't seen it, it's very helpful. I havent found anything quite like it in OS X)

Perhaps I'm missing something but in the Finder you can go View > Arrange > Date Created and the others. You can also choose View > as List and click on the column tops to have it sort by whatever you clicked on. To add more you can go View > Show View Options and add others.

Or maybe I'm misreading something?

Lew · Oct 29, 2003, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by tRr:
Perhaps I'm missing something but in the Finder you can go View > Arrange > Date Created and the others. You can also choose View > as List and click on the column tops to have it sort by whatever you clicked on. To add more you can go View > Show View Options and add others.

Or maybe I'm misreading something?

XP also has an option to 'Show in groups'. I have the c

temp folder on my work machine sorted by date with the show in groups setting enabled and it currently has files listed in groups labeled 'Today', 'Yesterday' and 'Two weeks ago'. Quite a useful feature, really. I also use it on my 'Network Neighborhood' window at home, setting it to display network shares grouped by host.

Orion27 · Oct 29, 2003, 08:22 AM

I gotta chime in here. I've been saving a partition on a second drive just for Panther. I did a clean install no problems as I expected. I planned a slow orderly migration of all my apps and settings as I had time.. I keep Jaguar running on the 1st partition to run DiskWarrior and Drive10. I was so anxious to make the transition I decided what the hell, I'll just run Upgrade on my main drive. I first ran Diskwarrior from the second drive then optimised with Drive 10. Then I installed Panther Upgrade. After the Panther Upgrade I reran DiskWarrior and Drive 10 to optimize. I launched Panther and Ran permissions fix from Disk Utility. so far all my main apps run fine. Photoshop, DreamweaverMX, Illustrator,
Canon Digital Camera stuff, printer (faster). I have to say Panther is faster and the Upgrade Option worked mighty fine for me, all my settings and keychain preserved ( I do not recommend it though for obvious reasons) I'm a happy camper this time arround

Millennium · Oct 29, 2003, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by Raman:
Umm... I hate to tell you but TCP/IP settings are not that complicated.

That all depends on how you're set up. TCP/IP settings can be incredibly simple, or they can be maddeningly complicated. It is quite possible for this user to have been in that latter category.

Lew · Oct 29, 2003, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Me:
XP also has an option to 'Show in groups'. I have the ctemp folder on my work machine sorted by date with the show in groups setting enabled and it currently has files listed in groups labeled 'Today', 'Yesterday' and 'Two weeks ago'. Quite a useful feature, really. I also use it on my 'Network Neighborhood' window at home, setting it to display network shares grouped by host.