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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Okay to run Macbook Pro with no battery?

Okay to run Macbook Pro with no battery?
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mediahound
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Dec 9, 2007, 01:35 PM
 
I have a Macbook Pro that I use at home a lot (hooked into a 30" DELL monitor=sweet!). Since it's plugged in a lot, I usually take out the battery, which leaves a hole in the bottom of the Macbook. Is it okay to operate like this?
     
ibook_steve
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Dec 9, 2007, 02:18 PM
 
Sure. But the machine will run at a slower speed (not sure if that's still the case, but it was with the G4 PBs) and if that nifty Magsafe adaptor pops off, you're down for the count.

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mediahound  (op)
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Dec 9, 2007, 02:26 PM
 
Interesting. I wonder why it would run slower without a battery in there?
     
ghporter
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Dec 9, 2007, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by mediahound View Post
Interesting. I wonder why it would run slower without a battery in there?
You and me (and a lot of others) both. But it is something that can be verified independently. Why would you want to run the computer without the battery in the first place?

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
mediahound  (op)
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Dec 9, 2007, 03:13 PM
 
So as not to wear it down prematurely. If I'm using it mainly plugged in, it seems like having the power going to the battery all time time would not be good for it.


Why would you want to run the computer without the battery in the first place?
     
tinkered
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Dec 9, 2007, 03:57 PM
 
If you want to store your battery for long term, run it down to ~60-70%, pop it out, put it in the freezer in a ziplock freezer bag with all the air pushed out. This will preserve the battery from just the normal degradation of time.
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VValdo
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Dec 9, 2007, 04:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by mediahound View Post
So as not to wear it down prematurely. If I'm using it mainly plugged in, it seems like having the power going to the battery all time time would not be good for it.
Um, may I politely suggest that this is INSANE? Leave your battery in your machine! If you were meant to disconnect it when power was in use, you would be instructed to do so OR it would be done automatically (this is apple, after all).

I guess this is self-correcting problem though. Because after a few times of using the computer and having the plug fall out and losing everything, you'll learn to leave it where it belongs. That's if it you're using it as a laptop. If you've got it on your desk all the time and don't think the cord has any chance of falling out ever... well, you shoulda bought a desktop machine.

Please, for the sake of common sense, leave your battery in. Do not freeze it, do not encase in carbonite, do not deep fry it. Just leave it in your machine and forget about it.

W
     
Big Mac
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Dec 9, 2007, 04:48 PM
 
It's true that continually charging a battery does wear it down prematurely.

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VValdo
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Dec 9, 2007, 05:01 PM
 
Yes, it's true that passage of time wears a battery down. A six year old battery won't hold the same charge as a battery out of the factory. But "continually charging" a battery wears it down? Show me evidence for that. If you use your keyboard, it will wear down too. If you have a non-LED backlit screen, it will wear down and get dimmer. Your power cord will become frayed over time. Your speakers can go, so don't use those either.

Cycling charges (ie, charging/draining, charging/draining) DO wear down a battery-- batteries are rated for a certain number of charge cycles... but where's evidence that a battery left in a charging state vs. a battery left in the closet have a different lifespan? And who cares anyway? I can tell you this-- 100% of unsaved documents open when a computer loses power unexpectedly disappear.

W
     
EndlessMac
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Dec 9, 2007, 09:36 PM
 
Mediahound in my opinion I think your priorities are a little off. If it comes down to it you can buy a new battery which I understand that some people try to avoid for financial reasons, but I think it's a worthwhile trade off just for the better performance alone. If that's not enough of a reason then the prevention of a sudden lost of power due to accidently pulling out the power cord or an electrical blackout would be another good reason for me to keep the battery in. I hate the idea of losing all the unsaved work that I was doing.

I've accidently pulled out my laptop power cord a few times because unlike a desktop that is tucked away under a desk and almost never moved, my laptop is small enough that I sometimes move it out of the way to make room on my desk. Also a laptop power cord is a lot easier to remove than a desktop's. A laptop has the luxury of having two power sources which helps reduce the sudden lost of power and there are people who buy UPS (uninterruptible power supply) for their desktops in order to have the same benefit.

I guess it comes down to what's more important to you.
     
ghporter
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Dec 9, 2007, 10:05 PM
 
When the battery is in the machine, on AC and fully charged, the computer stops charging it. It is not "continually charging" in any sense of the word. The computer lets it fall somewhere around 5% of capacity before it tops it off, and it does so with a trickle, not a "fast charge" current. Leaving a modern laptop battery in the computer permanently, even while it's running on AC for the majority of its life, is perfectly safe for the battery. My wife's 2004 iBook lives on her desk, almost always plugged in, and its battery had just about full health when they recalled it (no problems, but hey, new battery? Sure!).

If this were 1995 and we were dealing with NiCads, we might have a different discussion. Lithium polymer batteries have no memory, no loss from sitting at a particular charge level, and no problem with cycling. It's a good idea to cycle the battery now and then, but such batteries have a particular (rather large) number of full discharge/charge cycles as their lifespan. After a number of cycles, you'll see the battery's health begin to decline, as indicated by a slightly lower full charge capacity. This is normal and not because of misuse.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
ibook_steve
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Dec 10, 2007, 02:50 AM
 
Any chance of a battery sticky? This stuff comes up every other week.

Steve
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Simon
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Dec 10, 2007, 03:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by ibook_steve View Post
Any chance of a battery sticky? This stuff comes up every other week.
Seconded.
     
drnkn_stylz
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Dec 12, 2007, 08:09 PM
 
Here you go everyone:

Lithium-ion batteries need to be used for maximum performance. If you don’t use your device often, be sure to complete a charge cycle at least once a month. Click the links below to add regular reminders to your iCal calendar.
Apple - Batteries
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mediahound  (op)
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Dec 13, 2007, 09:33 AM
 
From Apple at:
Apple - Batteries - Notebooks

"Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time." (with the battery in)
     
silver
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Dec 13, 2007, 01:22 PM
 
@mediahound Um did I miss something, but nowhere on the Apple Batteries page does it say to take the battery out when the units plugged into an outlet.

You seem to have taken that sentence out of context, the paragraph that sentence was from merely states that Apple does not recommend having your portables just sitting there plugged in all the time. If you read further it's a way to keep Lithium batteries juices flowing. Further more Apple recommends fully discharging your batteries once a month as standard battery maintenance.

Although it is possible to use the portable while plugged in without the battery I wouldn't recommend it . Case and point: We had a storm roll through where I live and I was working on a project for 3 days then all of a sudden the power went out. Now if I didn't have my battery in I wouldn't have been able to save my work. So power came back on after 15 hours and you know what I was able to continue working from where I was able to save. Keeping the battery in as you can see saved me from having to start my project all over again.
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ghporter
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Dec 13, 2007, 01:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by mediahound View Post
From Apple at:
Apple - Batteries - Notebooks

"Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time." (with the battery in)
Your parenthetical remark has nothing to do with your quote. Here it is in context:
Originally Posted by Apple
Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time. An ideal use would be a commuter who uses her MacBook Pro on the train, then plugs it in at the office to charge.
Apple does NOT mention running a portable computer without its battery, at least not on that page.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
SierraDragon
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Dec 13, 2007, 01:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by mediahound View Post
From Apple at:
Apple - Batteries - Notebooks
"Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time." (with the battery in)
The full quote from Apple is "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it’s important to keep the electrons in it moving occasionally. Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time. An ideal use would be a commuter who uses her MacBook Pro on the train, then plugs it in at the office to charge. This keeps the battery juices flowing..."

Apple is not IMO suggesting that folks remove the battery! Quite the opposite. Apple is saying that the battery should be routinely used. So when in desktop mode, daily or weekly simply unplug the laptop and let the battery work. Then once a month let the battery run all the way down. No big deal.

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mediahound  (op)
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Dec 13, 2007, 01:40 PM
 
It seems to follow that since I leave my Macbook plugged in all the time, I should, by Apple's own logic, remove the battery. They state pretty clearly that they do not recommend leaving it plugged in all the time and further recommend using the battery periodically which I stated is not something I regularly do.
     
ghporter
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Dec 13, 2007, 02:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by mediahound View Post
It seems to follow that since I leave my Macbook plugged in all the time, I should, by Apple's own logic, remove the battery. They state pretty clearly that they do not recommend leaving it plugged in all the time and further recommend using the battery periodically which I stated is not something I regularly do.
NO. They recommend unplugging it and running it on the battery. LEAVING THE BATTERY IN THE COMPUTER WHILE IT IS ON AC WILL NOT IN ANY WAY HURT IT. Not cycling the battery from time to time may reduce its useful life.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
SierraDragon
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Dec 13, 2007, 03:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by mediahound View Post
It seems to follow that since I leave my Macbook plugged in all the time, I should, by Apple's own logic, remove the battery...
One of your logical flaws is in "...since I leave my Macbook plugged in all the time..."

What Apple ("keep the electrons in it moving occasionally") and everyone else here is saying is Do NOT leave your Macbook plugged in all the time.

It is easy, just read my previous post.

-Allen Wicks
     
Simon
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Dec 13, 2007, 06:51 PM
 
Do not remove your battery!

Apple doesn't tell you to do so anywhere and a lot of people here who actually know what they are talking about will tell you so as well. Taking out the battery will do two things:
- drop the clock and make your expensive and fast MBP run slow
- eventually probably break the battery hinge mechanism

What it will however not do is
- prevent the Li polymere battery from aging (because that's what they all do no matter what 'care' you take).

Keep the battery in there, keep the juices flowing, and stop worrying for Pete's sake.

The only actual problem is if somebody is always using the MBP in closed-lid mode. If you unplug the MBP to cycle the battery, closed-lid mode won't work. Solution: Either switch to normal internal screen mode to cycle the battery every once in a while or just live with the fact that you'll have to buy a new battery every 2 years. Both are quite acceptable IMHO.
     
Page14
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Dec 14, 2007, 09:56 AM
 
I was about to start a new thread on batteries, but since this one already exists, I'm hoping this is the right place to bring up what's happening with my MacBook Pro. I bought it 8 months ago. I very very rarely use it without being connected through an electrical outlet. It appears that my battery isn't recharging anymore. I say that because the little light on the AC adapter cord no longer turns green ... it stays orange (or red).

I had no idea that it is bad not to use the battery. (In fact I thought it would help save the battery by not using it). But even with that, is it normal for a battery to last only 8 months??? (even when it's barely used).

Thank you.

Bob
     
FastAMX79
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Dec 14, 2007, 12:28 PM
 
I bought my Powerbook G4 1.0GHz back in October of 2003.... 3 months later I sent my battery in for a recall. I've been using that same battery (and computer) with no issues of battery life loss. I use my computer mostly as a desktop and take it with me maybe once a month (on average).

It still looks like new (the computer) and by battery still holds a great charge. Running Leopard 'normal' i get 3 hours. If i do light stuff, I get about 3.5 hours. According to iStat, my battery is at 90% life. Not bad for a damn near 4 year old battery. Just leave it in.. you will be fine. Just remember to let it drain once every few months. That is what I did.
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Page14
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Dec 15, 2007, 09:57 AM
 
In case anybody is wondering (haha) ... regarding my post 2 messages above ... I called my local Mac store and told them about my battery problems. They said that since it's still under warranty, just bring it in and they'll give the computer the once over and simply replace the battery if that's what the problem is. They said defective battery problems are not all that uncommon.

Bob
     
amazing
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Dec 15, 2007, 12:18 PM
 
Look at it this way: given how easy the magsafe pops out of the laptops, wouldn't you be better with the battery in, since you wouldn't be risking a data-loss of whatever precious stuff you're working on? Rest assured, if the magsafe hasn't popped out on you yet, it is still definitely in your future horoscope.

How much is that peace of mind worth to you?
     
TH.c
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Dec 15, 2007, 07:50 PM
 
The issue of battery seems to have heated up beyond the intent of the initial question ... so please give a response that is within his actual area of concern without rubbing any of us the wrong way
     
ghporter
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Dec 15, 2007, 08:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by TH.c View Post
The issue of battery seems to have heated up beyond the intent of the initial question ... so please give a response that is within his actual area of concern without rubbing any of us the wrong way
You mean without saying "it's dumb to run a Mac portable without its battery"? How about "it is counter productive-extremely so-to remove the battery from a Mac portable while intending to run it.

Occasionally it's important to be emphatic when a subject is a) thoroughly documented, b) NOT subject to individual opinion, and c) questioners continue to appear, asking the same question over and over. This is the case with this thread. Sorry if your feathers were ruffled, but I really get tired of saying the same thing over again. It's not like I'm having to use different terms so make something clear (I can explain things in more ways than I can count by simply using different terms and different analogies).

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