[His Dudeness]

He is harping about the lack of a removeable battery. I fail to understand the huge deal with this. I've never replaced a battery on any of the laptops I've ever owned:

G3 Powerbook
Dell Inspiron 600m
Dell Inspiron 8600
Dell Inspiron 1520
Dell Inspiron 1720
HP 17" pos (it had an ATI chip!)

I still have the first two Dell's and sold the G3 a few years ago. So what's the big deal?

[His Dudeness]

About the keyboard... my stepson bought a black Macbook last month and the keyboard feels great. It doesn't take a lot of pressure nor does it have a long trigger pull, for want of a better anaology. Nice and clean and smooth typing.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by His Dudeness 

He is harping about the lack of a removeable battery. I fail to understand the huge deal with this. I've never replaced a battery on any of the laptops I've ever owned:

I have on a couple of Mac laptops. And I'm going to add another to the list soon, a G4 iBook. (I'm also on my 3rd battery for my MacBook but that's not due to the usual gradual battery degradation. It's due to some specific bug/manufacturing defect, so the MacBook doesn't count.)

However, Apple has quite a reasonable battery replacement program for the MBA. Only $129, so for the most part, that's moot.

[malone]

Me neither. I've had three Mac notebooks, and two PC notebooks, and never had to replace any batteries.

I guess road warriors might want to bring a spare battery with them.

But then there's a double standard at play: if people think carrying a dongle for ethernet or external SuperDrive with them 'defeats' the purpose of having an ultraportable, why would they want to carry around heavy spare batteries?!

Originally Posted by His Dudeness 

He is harping about the lack of a removeable battery. I fail to understand the huge deal with this. I've never replaced a battery on any of the laptops I've ever owned:

G3 Powerbook
Dell Inspiron 600m
Dell Inspiron 8600
Dell Inspiron 1520
Dell Inspiron 1720
HP 17" pos (it had an ATI chip!)

I still have the first two Dell's and sold the G3 a few years ago. So what's the big deal?

[mfbernstein]

---

[HAGEhead]

LAWL.

"i'm taking my ball and going home"

this thread is a miracle of modern science

[icruise]

Originally Posted by mfbernstein 

Since I'm apparently in the minority that believes tools should be useful first and attractive second, and that opinion is considered obnoxious around here, I'll shut up and let y'all go back to congratulating Apple on their newest miracle.

Have fun.

(PS - How does one delete one's account from MacNN Forums? Responses via PM only, please. Thanks).

So you want to delete your account from MacNN because someone disagrees with you about whether the MBA is a good computer?

[analogika]

And suddenly, the thread took a gigantic, yet unsurprising turn to the lame.

[damiensmunki]

In my best Randy Marsh voice... "See ya!"

[P]

Yeah, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Do you really think that Apple would remove features from a $1800 laptop to push them to a $1099 one? Or is it the $1999 MBP you're thinking of? I would be very surprised if the MBA isn't higher margin than the base MBP.

[Eug]

Engadget got their MacBook Air, and is a little annoyed.


Remote Disc: no movie playback, no HD support, and everything else you need to know

You have to ask permission to use the drive every single time, there's no client whitelist or anything like that. Even if you've already asked permission on that drive and disc, if you stop using it and come back to it, you have to ask permission again.

Every time you ask permission as a Remote Disc client, the host gets a popup asking if it's cool to share your drive. You can, of course, accept or decline (but the only way to stop getting prompts is to turn off disc sharing).

Ejecting the disc on the client side does not eject it on the host side.

Ejecting it on the host side, however, gives a host-side prompt about the disc being in use. You can override and eject, however.

To reinstall or boot from CD using Remote Disc, the host must use the installed Remote Install Mac OS X application. It's a fairly simple process, but sharing an install CD over a wireless network is asking for trouble. It took an absurd amount of time (nearly 10 minutes) to boot over 802.11g. You need bandwidth.

To remote boot from a shared CD, hold the option key while starting up. You'll be presented with a BIOS-level WiFi / network selection that looks surprisingly unpolished for Apple (but works with WPA and advanced WiFi crypto all the same)


You can browse the file contents of DVD discs, but you cannot actually play that media back over the network.



You can't rip DVDs over the network using a tool like Handbrake.

You can't even browse a music CD or listen to tracks. Don't even think about burning a disc remotely.

Remote Disc appears only to be able to share CD / DVD drives and CD / DVD discs, not high capacity / HD optical drives.

We tested sharing a regular DVD over an HD DVD drive, no luck. Data CDs on DVD drives worked fine though.


Adding insult to injury: USB 3G modems won't fit in the MacBook Air



Ouch, we just tested and confirmed that one of the smallest (and thus likeliest to fit) USB EV-DO modems around, the Sprint / Novatel U727, won't even come close to fitting in the cramped, foldaway USB port on the MacBook Air. Most flash drives will probably be okay, but it looks like 3G users will either need powered USB hubs or a USB extension cable to get online where WiFi isn't available (read: most places).

[Dakar the Fourth]

Yikes.

[malone]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Engadget got their MacBook Air, and is a little annoyed.

I wouldn't say 'annoyed' per se, at least not with respect to the remote disc feature. They write that, "Despite its shortcomings, it did work exactly as advertised, and with zero fuss." (bolding mine)

[Eug]

Confirmed: MacBook Air SuperDrive does NOT work with other machines - Engadget

One obvious and debated question on a lot of potential buyers' minds: okay, I'm dropping nearly two large on this here machine, but will the external optical drive even work with one of my other laptops and/or desktops? The answer: no. Regular USB simply doesn't support the power draw an optical drive needs, which was evidenced as plugged the SuperDrive into a stock MacBook Pro and it came up bupkis. It wouldn't even let us insert a disk without forcing it down the drive's maw. Of course, it worked just fine on the Air. Seriously though, how many machines do you have that need an external optical drive, anyway?

P.S. -For inquiring minds: yes, the USB port looks identical to your stock port. Apple is obviously just jamming some more amperage down the line.

P.P.S. -No, this won't work with a powered hub.

[fisherKing]

the usb modem thing isn't so severe, you can get a short usb extension (i have a few that came with card readers, for example).

i AM still wondering if that usb port (with it's 'superpower' for the superdrive) will work with my external portable drives (yes, i posted this thought earlier... )

i'm on the fence about the air, until i get to play with one (i mean, work with one).
and am STILL waiting for a 12" mbp (and waiting, and waiting...)

[Eug]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

the usb modem thing isn't so severe, you can get a short usb extension (i have a few that came with card readers, for example).

Definitely not a deal killer, but still annoying.

i AM still wondering if that usb port (with it's 'superpower' for the superdrive) will work with my external portable drives (yes, i posted this thought earlier... )

The MBA should work fine with other USB drives, barring any other unforeseen incompatibilities.

The Cube has a similarly high-powered USB port, but other USB devices work just fine with it. The device will just draw the power that it needs. It's not as if the MBA will force too much power into 3rd party device.

In fact, I wish ALL USB ports were like the MBA's. One of USB's Achilles' heels is its power spec IMO. 5 V x 0.5 A just doesn't cut it for a lot of stuff.

[damiensmunki]

I've never tried to use 3G service, so take this as a noob question. Can't you use your phone as a 3G modem connected via USB or bluetooth?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by damiensmunki 

I've never tried to use 3G service, so take this as a noob question. Can't you use your phone as a 3G modem connected via USB or bluetooth?

Yes.

Your carrier may not support this type of laptop/phone tethering in your data plan though (cuz the amount of data used is much higher). Around here, if you want to use your laptop to surf through your phone, you have to pay for a specific data plan that supports this.

[damiensmunki]

Don't ya just love cell phone providers?

[f1000]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Ouch, we just tested and confirmed that one of the smallest (and thus likeliest to fit) USB EV-DO modems around, the Sprint / Novatel U727, won't even come close to fitting in the cramped, foldaway USB port on the MacBook Air. Most flash drives will probably be okay, but it looks like 3G users will either need powered USB hubs or a USB extension cable to get online where WiFi isn't available (read: most places).

OR they could tether their laptops to their cell phones using either USB or Bluetooth, as I've been doing for over five years. And speaking of cramped, I doubt that fat U727 modem would play nicely with other USB peripherals plugged directly into the back of a Mac mini.

With that said, Apple should've considered a more flush access panel for its ports.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by damiensmunki 

Don't ya just love cell phone providers?

Well, if you're in the US, consider yourself lucky in terms of cell data plans. The data rates are much higher up here in Canada.

Originally Posted by f1000 

OR they could tether their laptops to their cell phones using either USB or Bluetooth, as I've been doing for over five years.

Those types of wireless adapters are quite popular among road warriors. Not everyone wants to do stuff the same way you do.

[f1000]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Well, if you're in the US, consider yourself lucky in terms of cell data plans. The data rates are much higher up here in Canada.

Well seeing as how the US/European GSM market is 25x bigger than Canada's, I think you should consider yourself UNlucky to be living in a country that is lagging behind 3G international norms. You guys need a competitor to Rogers.

Originally Posted by Eug 

Those types of wireless adapters are quite popular among road warriors. Not everyone wants to do stuff the same way you do.

That they don't know any better is their problem, not Apple's.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The MBA should work fine with other USB drives, barring any other unforeseen incompatibilities..

what i should have pointed out: the portable drives (lacie, iomega) get their power currently (hmmm..power current!) from the firewire port on my powerbook, but they CAN run on usb...provided i plug a drive into BOTH ports on the pb at the same time...one port alone will not power it.

so...the super usb port on the air? will try this when they hit the stores...

[Eug]

Apple: Biggest Macbook Sizemodo Ever

[Eug]

MacBook Air teardown

It's almost as nicely laid out inside as the iMac G5.



Battery removed:

[Cadaver]

Awesome laptop porno.

[Cadaver]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

i'm on the fence about the air, until i get to play with one (i mean, work with one).
and am STILL waiting for a 12" mbp (and waiting, and waiting...)

Yeah, me too. I don't need a high-powered laptop, but I'm worried the 80GB 1.8" HD will be uncomfortably slow (the 4200 RPM 2.5" drive in my 12" PowerBook G4 was painful enough). And I'm also nervous that I'd find the 64GB SSD too small, especially since I'll definitely need a Boot Camp partition of about 8-10 GB.

And the paucity of ports bothers me a bit, too. If only it had an ethernet port on it. I'd find myself carrying the ethernet dongle (and the micro-DVI to VGA dongle) almost all the time when at work.

Hmm.... damn, its a tough one. MacBook or AirBook.

[ctt1wbw]

4200 rpms is slow? The disk is spinning four thousand two hundred times per second and that's slow? How can live and make it through the day? I'd commit suicide if I had wait one one-thousandth of a second to access a file. I just don't know what I'd do. I'd definitely have to get the 5400 rpm drive so I wouldn't have wait that long. I'm a busy guy I just don't have that kind of time to waste.

[icruise]

I don't really think that kind of sarcasm is warranted. 4200 RPM is in fact the slowest drive commonly used, and it would be nice if it were faster.. I don't think it's something that I would base my buying decision on, but the jump to a higher drive can make a difference in perceived speed.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

4200 rpms is slow? The disk is spinning four thousand two hundred times per second and that's slow? How can live and make it through the day? I'd commit suicide if I had wait one one-thousandth of a second to access a file. I just don't know what I'd do. I'd definitely have to get the 5400 rpm drive so I wouldn't have wait that long. I'm a busy guy I just don't have that kind of time to waste.

if you do any audio or video work (i do a lot of audio), a 7200rpm drive is best, 5400rpm (like the one on my powerbook) will suffice.

4200rpm for a hard drive, and for the demands of many apps, is slow.

[f1000]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

4200 rpms is slow? The disk is spinning four thousand two hundred times per second and that's slow

I have to agree with the other guys here. 4200 rpm is sluggish, but more RAM can make a slower hard drive more tolerable.

[Eug]

Don't forget that this is a 4200 rpm 1.8" drive. Not all 4200 rpm drives are created equal. This is the type of drive you find in an iPod.

I wouldn't be surprised that in real-world use, a 4200 rpm 1.8" drive is slower than a recent 4200 rpm 2.5" drive.

At best, it could be as fast as a recent 4200 rpm drive... which is still slow.

EDIT:

Here are some disk benchmarks. It's Xbench, which kinda sucks, but it's all we have at the moment.

It would seem that it's quite slow... but perhaps it is not any slower than a 4200 rpm 2.5" drive. (They didn't test a 4200 rpm 2.5 drive though. The slowest drive they tested beside the MacBook Air drive was a 2.5" 5400 rpm drive.)

Random disk access score (higher is better):

1.6 GHz MacBook Air - 16.81
2.16 GHz CD MB Pro - 19.16 <-- Probably an older 5400 rpm 2.5" drive
2.2 GHz C2D MB Pro - 27.99 <-- Newer 5400 rpm 2.5" drive
2.2 GHz C2D MacBook - 28.31 <-- Newer 5400 rpm 2.5" drive
2.4 GHz C2D iMac - 62.13 <-- 7200 rpm 3.5" drive

[ctt1wbw]

I think my old G3 Powerbook had a 4200 rpm drive in and it ran OS X as fast my Dell with a 5400 rpm drive runs Vista. I'm not running late at night waiting for it. Maybe 4200 rpms is fast enough for what people might use the Macbook Air for. Like the mod said above, it's not something to base your buying decision on solely.

And I'm a very sarcastic guy.

[damiensmunki]

Have you guys seen anything published, or would you care to speculate on whether or not the 4.2k rpm drive will be replaceable, once SSD's become cheaper and more readily available?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by damiensmunki 

Have you guys seen anything published, or would you care to speculate on whether or not the 4.2k rpm drive will be replaceable, once SSD's become cheaper and more readily available?

Gizmodo has now taken down their pix for some reason, but it seems the pix are still hosted at their site:



If you can't see the pic, then tell me and I'll rehost it.

Anyways, I suspect the drive is at the top left. If so, I wouldn't think it's necesssarily "easy" to replace the drive since there are some cables running over it, but it might not be very hard.

[Eug]

MacBook Air - めざましテレビ お宝映像*

*Translation: Japanese babes with long fingernails like the MacBook Air - Video!

[JCT]

Originally Posted by f1000 

OR they could tether their laptops to their cell phones using either USB or Bluetooth, as I've been doing for over five years. And speaking of cramped, I doubt that fat U727 modem would play nicely with other USB peripherals plugged directly into the back of a Mac mini.

With that said, Apple should've considered a more flush access panel for its ports.

To be perfectly honest, I've been using one of those USB modems for awhile (highly recommended, BTW) and I almost *never* use it sticking directly into the machine. Ever sat in an airline gate waiting area dodging 10 little kids running around? A great way to have your USB port destroyed --- I almost always use a USB plug extender cable, much safer and allows you to reposition if the signal is dodgy.

JT

[Eug]

Originally Posted by JCT 

To be perfectly honest, I've been using one of those USB modems for awhile (highly recommended, BTW) and I almost *never* use it sticking directly into the machine. Ever sat in an airline gate waiting area dodging 10 little kids running around? A great way to have your USB port destroyed --- I almost always use a USB plug extender cable, much safer and allows you to reposition if the signal is dodgy.

Huh? I don't understand this at all.

When I was using my Bluetooth dongle with my TiBook to wirelessly "tether" my GSM phone, kids running around at the airport didn't worry me in the least for my USB port. I would sit there at the gate with the computer on my lap (or on the next seat). I don't think any kid every got within even 2 feet of that USB dongle.

It's not as if some kid would suddenly jump on my laptop if I happened to have something plugged into its USB port.

What DID worry me though was the power adapter cable, as sometimes that ran across the aisle to the wall.

[JCT]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Huh? I don't understand this at all.

When I was using my Bluetooth dongle with my TiBook to wirelessly "tether" my GSM phone, kids running around at the airport didn't worry me in the least for my USB port. I would sit there at the gate with the computer on my lap (or on the next seat). I don't think any kid every got within even 2 feet of that USB dongle.

It's not as if some kid would suddenly jump on my laptop if I happened to have something plugged into its USB port.

What DID worry me though was the power adapter cable, as sometimes that ran across the aisle to the wall.

Yeah well, about a year ago a mother getting on a plane with a set of kids picked one up while getting her stuff together and the kid's heels nailed my Lexar flash drive sticking out of my PB --- one USB port gone. It just seems to me that when you're in a somewhat frenetic public place without a desk the less you have sticking out of that fragile port the better, but YMMV.

JT

[mfbernstein]

Engadget reviewed the MBA. Battery life results seem odd.

(And sorry, I got carried away earlier. My bad. I apologize)

[olePigeon]

I'm willing to bet a company is going to release a USB Y-cable that converts the MacBook Air's super drive into a 2-USB cable like many other USB-only devices (one for extra power.)

[mduell]

Originally Posted by hempcamp 

Why in the name of all things holy would you care that there is no dedicated GPU in a 1.6Ghz ultraportable computer?

Other 12-13" 3-4.5lb laptops starting at $1000 have discrete graphics (nVidia 8400M G/GS is popular), so it wasn't unreasonable to expect.

Originally Posted by Simon 

What Apple could do to get the MBA's footprint down is reduce the bezel around the screen and KB. I don't know why they haven't done this, but I'm guessing it's there for an engineering reason (they did it on the MB too) and if they knew a way how, I'm sure they'd get rid of it.

Marketing; it lets them reduce thickness in two ways. One they have more space for the battery instead of using a thicker battery, and that extra inch is used to taper down from ~0.5" to 0.16" on the front.

Originally Posted by Eug 

One obvious and debated question on a lot of potential buyers' minds: okay, I'm dropping nearly two large on this here machine, but will the external optical drive even work with one of my other laptops and/or desktops? The answer: no. Regular USB simply doesn't support the power draw an optical drive needs

Is "simply" code for something? There are other bus-powered USB optical drives (including burners) that don't require nonstandard power.

[Daniel Bayer]

I have been using Apple products for decades. For some reason, my gut instinct it telling me to hold off on this one. Maybe in a couple years it will do what I would need it to, but not now.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by Daniel Bayer 

I have been using Apple products for decades. For some reason, my gut instinct it telling me to hold off on this one. Maybe in a couple years it will do what I would need it to, but not now.

Why, do you have a need for an ultra portable but this scares you, or do you not need a laptop in such a small form factor?

I'm not buying this because it does not fit my needs. I think its design marvel but my MBP fits my needs

[Daniel Bayer]

This is a product that I see getting more than just a bit better after the third revision. I also think that this is the future of Mac portables...

[Simon]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Marketing; it lets them reduce thickness in two ways. One they have more space for the battery instead of using a thicker battery, and that extra inch is used to taper down from ~0.5" to 0.16" on the front.

Moot point. The MB has the same oversized bezel and it wasn't engineered to be super-thin. No, there's something reasoning behind going for a large bezel that doesn't have to do with the MBA specifically. Haven't heard a good explanation what it is though.

[hempcamp]

I just want to chime in with some calculations I did in an Air thread at another forum. These are estimated volumes of the Air and many of its oft-mentioned competitors (in cubic millimeters based on average height):

Lenovo X61s 1357152
Asus EEE PC 1039500
Toshiba Portege R500 1374106.5
Sony Vaio TXN29N 1390634.109
Sony Vaio X505 851968
Fujitsu LifeBook P1620 1336830.069
Lenovo X300 1848231
Asus U6S 1731309.699
MacBook Air 863167.5
PB 12" 1819890
Mac Book 2028812.5

There has been much criticism that the Air really is not any sort of engineering marvel, or that it made too many compromises. Just to give you a sense of scale, however, look at the volume comparisons. The Air is 35% less volume than its nearest competitor (the LifeBook P1620 -- I don't count the eee PC as a competitor) if you don't count the ancient X505 by Sony (which debuted at $300 more than the Air in 2004).

Some people have said volume doesn't matter because the footprint is so big. I disagree -- I think most briefcases and messenger bags are large enough in dimension to hold the Air or any of these competitor machines, and yet all these bags have a fixed volume, so it really can mean more efficient use of space (except for tray tables in Airplanes, I understand that complaint).

--Chris

[mduell]

hempcamp: What thickness dimension are you using for the air? The average thickness is well above the average of the two ends.

Originally Posted by Simon 

Moot point. The MB has the same oversized bezel and it wasn't engineered to be super-thin. No, there's something reasoning behind going for a large bezel that doesn't have to do with the MBA specifically. Haven't heard a good explanation what it is though.

In the MB it's the same reasons for an oversized bezel: to thin it down. Without the bezel they'd have to stack items in the case and/or have a smaller battery, etc. Look at the thickness of the MB competition.

[analogika]

The primary reason for the thickness of the MacBook is the optical drive, though.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by analogika 

The primary reason for the thickness of the MacBook is the optical drive, though.

You're absolutely right. And the battery already lasts a good deal longer than the MBP's so it's not like the MB needed this huge bezel to get half-way decent battery life.

Nope, still no good explanation for the bezel. I'm sure there is one though.