[MezzanineKid]

If I play nice can I have my name back? Also, why was my last name axed?

Ca$h

You know what? Everyone hare is sick of your juvenile BULLSHI*. Good members are leaving because of you and this sucks. MacNN has some great people and boards and I have been helped tremendously by some really helpful and nice people. People here do a have a sense of humor, but they're sick of you and so am I.
I really hope the MacNN people can keep the good members from leaving here.

DM

[rjenkinson]

why would you want your name back? "mezzaninekid" rocks!

-r.

[mac freak]

I think the whole thing with Ca$h has gone too far, banning his names and erasing his posts.

It reminds me of how big a deal the "OCN hack" got to be that chased wlonh away...

It's absurd. Let's all just... [look down]

------------------
Be Happy.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by montana_dakota:
You know what? Everyone hare is sick of your juvenile BULLSHI*. Good members are leaving because of you and this sucks. MacNN has some great people and boards and I have been helped tremendously by some really helpful and nice people. People here do a have a sense of humor, but they're sick of you and so am I.
I really hope the MacNN people can keep the good members from leaving here.

DM

Please do not assume you speak for everyone... my sentiments could not be further from yours.

Cipher13

[Cipher13]

Oh, and now that I've read the last post of the aforementioned thread, I understand why it was locked.
Because in the last post, Misha admitted that MacNN is not responsible for what Ca$h says, taking away all good reason to ban him.
"Maintain the integrity"...? Bullsh!t. The right of free speech is being impaired... talk about integrity.
By the way, Ca$h... you sound as if you're giving in. Don't. Sorry Misha, but I just can't agree with you on this one... Ca$h is in the right. Not only that, but, and believe me when I say I mean no disrespect by this, but I believe you are succumbing to the wishes of the masses, which is not good. I think you realise that there is no decent reason to ban Ca$h...
Oh and by the way... Thrax... how was Ca$h advocating piracy in the last thread? (Seriously... he may well have, but I can't remember).
There was something else I was going to say... can't remember... oh well. I'll be back if I remember.

Cipher13

[MezzanineKid]

HRm. Well. Im sick of getting new names, and Im sick of being 'crapped' on by Misha for no reason. I'm also sick of complete pony-cheeses like that guy up top. Look at that. ONE POST. ONE FREAKING POST. Hrm. Somebody created a NEW username just to type that. WONDER WHO THAT COULD BE......

Hrm. Someone afriad to use their own name, thats for sure. I'll have you know I'd always use my own name, but its banned. At least I'm not a chickenCRAP like whoever you are.

Ca$h

[Misha]

Maintaing the integrity of the forums is bullsh!t? Hardly, Cipher. These forums are provided as a priviledge, not a right, so actually the first ammendement doesn't apply. In fact, the first ammendement doesn't apply to 99% of the cases that people think it does, it really only covers government censorship.

Anyway, yes, when members are offended and leave because of another member's juvenile and insulting behavior, that's more than grounds for us to step in and clean up *our* forums. Period. I'm sorry if you disagree with this, but that's simply the way it is... we try to please as many as possible, which no doubt means some will always be left out.

[MezzanineKid]

Integrity eh? Yeah. That sex forum was ...definatly an integral part of MacNN. Same with the Wlonh Pics. I didnt do either of those, but whatever.

What have I actually done wrong besides mention piracy? The only people I've yelled at yelled at me first. So WTF?

Ca$h

[RWoelk]

Well said, Misha, and you too, Montana. Lets bring back MacNN to what it was intended to be, the wonderful forum that it once was. There are Mac sites plenty enough for children.

------------------
Rocke "Why yes, I have brought our
network down." Woelk

Only the educated are free!-Epictetus

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Misha:
Maintaing the integrity of the forums is bullsh!t? Hardly, Cipher. These forums are provided as a priviledge, not a right, so actually the first ammendement doesn't apply. In fact, the first ammendement doesn't apply to 99% of the cases that people think it does, it really only covers government censorship.

Anyway, yes, when members are offended and leave because of another member's juvenile and insulting behavior, that's more than grounds for us to step in and clean up *our* forums. Period. I'm sorry if you disagree with this, but that's simply the way it is... we try to please as many as possible, which no doubt means some will always be left out.

I did not say that maintaining the integrity was bullsh!t. That defies itself.
WTF is the first amendment? Don't pull that on me, I am not an American, and I have no idea what it is.
What I am saying is that by what you are doing, you are in fact censoring... der... censoring free speech.
When I spoke about maintaining the integrity of the forums, I did not mean to say that that in itself is bullsh!t, simply the way its being enforced, and it is simply being used as an excuse to 'ban' someone who some people don't like.
You can't be held accountable for what is said so what does it matter if it does not suit YOUR OWN MORAL ETHICS?
Now I've forgotten what I was gonna say (again, I know). Oh well... its late, I'm tired, I'll finish this later.

Cipher13

[Misha]

Cipher,

I agree with your points about the concept of free speech, I was simply clarifying the [legal] stance on the matter which so many people tend to incorrectly refer to (and which I thought you were referring to). Integrity is subjective, without question, so as I said before, MacNN has made some decisions to try and cater to the widest possible audience, which means that some people will not be happy.

Ca$h,

No, you're not the only one who makes questionable posts, but you are--far and away--the one who does so most frequently. As I said a couple days ago, this wasn't the case a month ago, so I'm not sure what's changed or what you're trying to prove. With regards to you yelling only at people who yell at you, I guess that depends on what you consider "yelling." Yelling isn't an issue, it's the insults and constant belittling of members who do not share the same views as you. Even if they are wrong and you are right, there are ways other than generally labeling them as being a "moron" or "stupid" to prove your point. Frequently you do back up your points, but you also frequently feel the need to throw in a disparaging comment or two as well. It's those comments that we have an issue with.

Let me remind everyone here as well that you're more than welcome to set up your own message board on your own servers and maintain it to your own standards. But respect the fact that we maintain our board to our standards, which in my opinion are relatively lax and very reasonable.

Let's not try and make this a 500 post thread. I think everyone here is aware of their situation and everyone here has made their point several times. If you truly have an issue with this, please take it up with me personally ([email protected]).

[andi*pandi]

well, not to post after an administrator or anything...

but more time has been wasted on the "should you or shouldn't you" give him back his name... i say fine, do it. give it back. I don't mind if he advocates piracy, that doesn't mean I'm going to do it... if he advocated jumping off a bridge, I wouldn't either.

This is different, and I say less serious, than the time he mislead the person with the "keyboard" solution. I think he's learned not to do that, any posts I've seen recently on COMPUTER instructional matters have been helpful.

It's only subjective matters (cars, politics, cats, girls) that he really gets virolent about, and can we deny an opinion? We could wish that he did it in less snap judgement fashion, or with fewer scatalogical analogies, but really. An opinion is just that. You can debate it, but you can't shut it off.

I'm amused more often than not by Ca$h, and when I'm offended, I just shrug and say, oh, that's cash. Whatever. Next topic. He doesn't affect me enough to get truly upset. (which is not to say I haven't enjoyed tweaking him about women and cats!)

There are few enough veterans in these fora to ban one of them.

Ok, I've put in my 2� now. Done.

(And as for the anonymous one-post critique dakota, that's just lame sniping. hssss!)

[This message has been edited by andi*pandi (edited 11-07-2000).]

[WDL]

Cash:

This will be my only post to you.

You talk about courage and how entertaining you are - demonstrate both.

Start your own forum/chat room - complete freedom to act in any manner you choose.
Then come back here and announce it to everyone and post the address.

Your fans will flock to it and you won't need to bother anyone here anymore, in fact,
if you're right, you'll be too busy to come here.

WDL

[slboett]

Cipher, et al.
You are confusing the "right" of free speech on the internet with MacNN's right to create an online community with the content it sees fit to associate to it's name.
Ca$h has zero rights here-no less, no more than you or I. You don't have the right to have your letters published in the New York Times do you? You don't have the right to speak on the ABC Evening News do you?
The internet is a free entity. Ca$h and anyone else can start their own site with forums and post/discuss/debate/flame/offend anyone they like. My interpretation of what this place is "supposed" to be like is obviously different than yours, and that's fine. But when MacNN representatives state their guidelines and goals for this site, that's definately their right to do so and they have the right to boot anyone not complying.

Best,
Scott

[MezzanineKid]

Agreed. Forums have rules by the people who maintain them. However..... I think that it should be censored as LITTLE as possible, because thats what the greatest thing about the internet is. Freedom. I think only spam and something retarded like a post with nothing but ponies should be deleted.

I think that if I make a point, and belittle someone in the process, it should stay... why? There was a reason I belittled them. I don't belittle people without any reason, and if DO, its usually because they were acting all pissy at me, and were WRONG. So I prove them wrong, and throw in some sarcasm to slap em back in line.

Ca$h

[Misha]

The problem with sarcasm on the Internet is that it's not always clear as to how to discern its meaning... is it, in fact, sarcasm, or is it offensive? While it may clear to you, to the reader it isn't necessarily.

And we do censor as little as possible. Threads are closed when they get too out of hand or too off topic. That's not even censorship, per se, since anyone can just fire up another thread on the same topic (as they have done here). Obviously if it were, more people would be starting up threads with the same content as the one that was closed, but I think everyone collectively agrees that when we shut a thread down it's with good reason, and they respect that.

I only edit/censor posts for offensive content... it just so happens that your posts usually contain something of that nature, Cash, so I edit them more frequently. Of all the posts in our forums (I think it's up to about 80,000 now) maybe 100 have been edited... I think 0.025% is pretty minimal "censorship," don't you?

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, just be sure that your opinion doesn't extend beyond the realm of the topic that's being discussed. That's all.

[MezzanineKid]

Bah. Why cut off the head if it keeps growing back? I like it when topics wander. ITs better that way.... gotta go sell a vase. later.

Ca$h

[Damien]

I've left many mailing lists for the very reason I ignore most of juvenile and unnecessary posts by some of those mentioned in this forum topic.

And, despite the overwhelming signal to noise ratio at MacFixit's forums (mostly because of the higher number of newbies), I've discovered myself spending more time there instead of here.

This is not by accident.

The MacNN forums are great places to talk about technology, Macintosh, Apple, and *related* subjects. They are not (nor were ever meant to be, I surmise), a place to allow a few members to stroke their egos and spout nonsensical blathering.

I applaud Misha for trying to restore some form of dignity to the forums, having seen them shat on my overbearing, obnoxious, and superfluous members with no sense of appropriateness, tact, or diplomacy.

Look. Being rude may work in your teenage world or insecurity and angst, butit won't really get you anywhere in the real world. Hiding behind the "free speech" clause is a lame excuse for being rude and uncivilized. Oliver Wendell Holmes said, ""The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." The same dictum should be held to here....if you really must be loud and obnoxious, don't be offended when others call you on it.

The resulting mess being discussed here is a direct result of your behavior, whether you realize it or not. I could implore you to be more open to others' opinions and beliefs, but my previous experience as a teacher and a grown-up leaves little hope in my mind that you'll change your ways, or at the very least, objectively realize the situation. In fact, you'll probably get angry and spout off more nonsense once you read this post. I'm fully expecting this, having dealt with many insecure, juvenile, self-absorbed people in the past. I hope you'll prove me wrong.

Damien Barrett