[DigitalEl]

So Macworld magazine is seemingly thinner every month, expensive (as far as magazines go) and chock full of ads rather than content, so I read it at Barnes & Noble... I know, I'm part of the problem. What's this have to do with OS X. Hold on. I'm getting there.

Has anyone seen the column by Matt Deatherage (in the issue on newsstands now) about how Apple deserves a large share of blame for the less-than-stellar adoption rate of the new operating system?

It certainly did make me see it in somewhat of a different light. He basically faults, in large part, the NeXT camp inside One Infinite Loop and calls many of their decisions regarding the OS X feature-set "arrogant."

Just wondering what your take on this article is. It's not posted online, so I can't provide anything more than the above brief and lame paraphrasing.

Anyone seen it? Your thoughts? Discuss!

[wtmcgee]

i haven't gotten my issue in the mail yet, but i agree about the 'thin' part of your comment. Macworld is getting thinner and thinner every month, with only about 2 major features and a few columns. pretty weak.

does anyone have a better magazine suggestion? MacAddict, etc?

[OptimusG4]

Ah, the days of NeXT buying Apple..er, I mean the other way around Well, I can't say there isn't any truth to the arrogance...I mean, when Apple bought NeXT, they basically bought the development team and all their technologies, and if I remember correctly, a lot of the NeXT engineers criticized the MacOS.

[BuonRotto]

Well, it's a tad naive if not ignorant to think that NeXT folk are/were more arrogant than the Apple folk. Apple was out of control and proud of it -- very dogmatic bunch who assumed they knew what was best for everyone. This author just likes to stir the pot, sell more magazines by appealing to a contrarian point of view every month.

[JLL]

Originally posted by DigitalEl:
Has anyone seen the column by Matt Deatherage (in the issue on newsstands now) about how Apple deserves a large share of blame for the less-than-stellar adoption rate of the new operating system?

Where does he get that less-than-stellar adoption rate from?

AFAIK the adoption rate is pretty high.

[osxisfun]

if steve jobs didn't come back at the time he did apple would be dead.

if apple had continued to "improve" OS9, instead of starting over with OSX they would be dead.

[crazyjohnson]

OSX should have been even more NeXT like. I really miss some key features of the NeXT OS. I also think its real funny to take the NeXT OS, with its very simple grey and black UI and turn into into a rainbow covered OS: OSX.

But, I am happy . . .

[hudson1]

OK, I'm not trying to open the NeXT vs. Be debate but I think it's fair to say that Apple was in the no-turning-back process of going outside for new OS technology. There's very little chance that OS 8/9 was anything other than a dead-end technology regardless of whether the NeXT team came on board to Apple or not.

[:XI:]

How about some examples of NeXT arrogance towards the feature set.

What month issue is it? I can get the US editions here so I'll go and take a look.

As for other magazines, can you get the UK MacUser in the States? It's thicker than the US MacWorld, fortnightly, now has a CD-ROM and it's thinkness hasn't changed for at least the last 4 years (looking at the two years wirth stack of issues on my floor and remembering the previous stack which I had to get rid of )

[voodoo]

10.3 had better be the Mac OS X we have been waiting for.

[MacGorilla]

Originally posted by voodoo:
10.3 had better be the Mac OS X we have been waiting for.

Which one is that? I'm happy now.

[andretan]

Macworld USA mag now comes with a DVD right?

[JLL]

Originally posted by :XI::
As for other magazines, can you get the UK MacUser in the States? It's thicker than the US MacWorld,

But every single page in the second half of the mag is nothing but ads.

[Eug]

Originally posted by DigitalEl:
So Macworld magazine is seemingly thinner every month, expensive (as far as magazines go) and chock full of ads rather than content, so I read it at Barnes & Noble... I know, I'm part of the problem. What's this have to do with OS X. Hold on. I'm getting there.

Has anyone seen the column by Matt Deatherage (in the issue on newsstands now) about how Apple deserves a large share of blame for the less-than-stellar adoption rate of the new operating system?

It certainly did make me see it in somewhat of a different light. He basically faults, in large part, the NeXT camp inside One Infinite Loop and calls many of their decisions regarding the OS X feature-set "arrogant."

Just wondering what your take on this article is. It's not posted online, so I can't provide anything more than the above brief and lame paraphrasing.

Anyone seen it? Your thoughts? Discuss!

The only reason I have a subscription to this mag is because it was free.

Anyways, I read the article and a lot of it just sounds like a PO'd ex-OS 9 user who sees a conspiracy by the NeXT group, for no good reason.

Strangely enough, some of the biggest "benefits" he states for OS 9, I've seen as some its biggest drawbacks. I'm glad Apple has seen the light.

It isn't that "Apple claims it's all about interoperability with Windows", but it's about interoperability with the rest of the WORLD, including Windows, Unix, Linux, OS 9, etc.

But then again, I have a biased opinion. I've ALWAYS hated OS 8 and OS 9. OS 9 was an anachronism, and although it does have some so-called benefits, those benefits are only marginal, and it doesn't help you much when so much else in the OS simply sucks.

Anyways, I find it remarkable how fast OS X has been adopted. X.1 is when I came on board. X.2 is I think the OS for the masses. X.3 is hopefully going to be just killer.

Indeed, my concern now is not so much the state of the OS for the desktop user, but for more complex Unix-style usage, and for the state of Apple iApps. Apple has finished the OS transition for the desktop user - and it's the tweak phase now for that. Now it's time to put a little more time into the server and software side.

And of course, hardware. [Eug rubs hands in anticipation of PPC 970...]

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by voodoo:
10.3 had better be the Mac OS X we have been waiting for.

Grow up please.

[MindFad]

Originally posted by andretan:
Macworld USA mag now comes with a DVD right?

Only a CD, I believe, like MacAddict. But I think it's extra for MacWorld; I canceled my subscription long ago, so I don't know. I'll probably sit out this remaining Mac Addict renewal unless the 970 comes out and the mags get more exciting.

[JB72]

Originally posted by BuonRotto:
Well, it's a tad naive if not ignorant to think that NeXT folk are/were more arrogant than the Apple folk. Apple was out of control and proud of it -- very dogmatic bunch who assumed they knew what was best for everyone.

Yuppers. Afaik those battles are largely over now though.

[:XI:]

Originally posted by JLL:
But every single page in the second half of the mag is nothing but ads.

So is the US Macworld. So is the UK Macworld An MacFormat too.
But MacUser is still thicker than US Macworld.

Should I count pages, ads and features and give you a detailed breakdown over 'thickness' of Mac Magazines?

Well, I'm not going to.

Fact is Macworld is thin, MacUser is thicker. Macworld is monthly, MacUser is fortnightly. MacUser is thicker over the month.

Before you start "yeah, you're buying two magazines!" the US edition of Macworld costs �5.99 per month. MacUser is �3.25 per fortnight (or �6.50 per month).

Two magazines, Two cds, two main features, two group tests, two competitions, two help sections all for 51p extra.

And MacUser is thicker.

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by JLL:
But every single page in the second half of the mag is nothing but ads.

You haven't seen ads until you open an American magazine, just about all of them asking you to turn to the back to finish reading an article. Big ads, big cars, big food, big butts, big oil and no understanding of why people outside the US are angry.

And then there's me with my big ass 17" Powerbook.

[JLL]

Originally posted by :XI::
Before you start "yeah, you're buying two magazines!" the US edition of Macworld costs �5.99 per month. MacUser is �3.25 per fortnight (or �6.50 per month).

Actually I will say that MacUser is $18 here in Denmark

I don't know why but British magazines cost an arm and a leg here.

[JLL]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
You haven't seen ads until you open an American magazine, just about all of them asking you to turn to the back to finish reading an article. Big ads, big cars, big food, big butts, big oil and no understanding of why people outside the US are angry.

I have read lots of American magazines, but I just think that MacUser is the same in the first half and then 100% ads in the second half.

But why do I care, I don't read magazines anymore

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by :XI::
So is the US Macworld. So is the UK Macworld An MacFormat too.
But MacUser is still thicker than US Macworld.

Should I count pages, ads and features and give you a detailed breakdown over 'thickness' of Mac Magazines?

Well, I'm not going to.

Fact is Macworld is thin, MacUser is thicker. Macworld is monthly, MacUser is fortnightly. MacUser is thicker over the month.

Before you start "yeah, you're buying two magazines!" the US edition of Macworld costs �5.99 per month. MacUser is �3.25 per fortnight (or �6.50 per month).

Two magazines, Two cds, two main features, two group tests, two competitions, two help sections all for 51p extra.

And MacUser is thicker.

Notice that Macworld has nothing but Mac muhajideen writers who praise any Mac no matter what the faults and use childish jibes against non-Macs (aka PCs). Mac User however is extremely well written, very literate and very open minded. They are housed in the same complex as PC Pro (the best PC magazine) and they have a continual stream of very fast PCs and Macs coming in and out everyday, allowing them to judge Mac performance much better than other publications.

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by JLL:


But why do I care, I don't read magazines anymore

Me too. I stopped buying them because the internet has everything you need to read now.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Grow up please.

Mhmm. There is a plethora of features that Mac users had before and were quite pleased with. A lot of those features didn't survive the transision from 9 to X. But that is not what I am talking about. While it would be nice to have all the old features built into the OS from Apple, there are many third party hacks that do the trick.

What I am talking about is power and consistancy. That was kinda the promise of OS X. The old system had consistancy enough, but lacked the power. I don't really care how Apple's engineers and designers apply the consistancy, but only that they do. I have high hopes for 10.3 to be that system.

So Adam: stop bitchin' about things you don't know about.

[brainchild2b]

It's a sad day for Macworld. I remember the guys like David Pogue... I still have an issue from 1996. The print is small because otherwise it would have ben an inch think. It's huge 3/4 inch think. And so exciting (i think the small print and gobs of articles were the best thing) It was like diving into another world. I'd be happy with the magazine for a while month because I could always go back and find some hidden gem I missed before.

I credit them with turning me from a 16 year old farm boy into a grown exteremely profitable computer geek.

Thanks for everything guys. Who would have known...

[JLL]

Originally posted by voodoo:
I don't really care how Apple's engineers and designers apply the consistancy, but only that they do. I have high hopes for 10.3 to be that system.

What inconsistancy are you talking about?

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by voodoo:
Mhmm. There is a plethora of features that Mac users had before and were quite pleased with. A lot of those features didn't survive the transision from 9 to X. But that is not what I am talking about. While it would be nice to have all the old features built into the OS from Apple, there are many third party hacks that do the trick.

What I am talking about is power and consistancy. That was kinda the promise of OS X. The old system had consistancy enough, but lacked the power. I don't really care how Apple's engineers and designers apply the consistancy, but only that they do. I have high hopes for 10.3 to be that system.

So Adam: stop bitchin' about things you don't know about.

Care to provide some examples or you're going to whine and whine and whine?

I'm not bitchin' about things I don't know about, I'm bitchin' about crybaby like you.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Care to provide some examples or you're going to whine and whine and whine?

I'm not bitchin' about things I don't know about, I'm bitchin' about crybaby like you.

You're bitching like the bitch you are.

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by voodoo:
You're bitching like the bitch you are.

Refused to provide some examples or you absolutely have no idea of what you are talking about?

[MindFad]

Just kidding, guys.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by JLL:
What inconsistancy are you talking about?

The inconsistancies:
* multiple windows showing exactly the same thing
* how changing the icons of some apps and folders works and others don't (sometimes you need to log out and in again, sometimes it just doesn't work)
* same systemwide services (when as it is you have to remind yourself that you are using Photoshop and it can't do spellchecking through services, when TextEdit can)
* that FTP in the Finder doesn't work as well as FTP in the Terminal, yet both are a part of Mac OS X, really.
* Unicode keyboard layouts exist, but don't stick in the Finder, and can't be used in Carbon apps.
* Bluetooth just turns off when the computer goes to sleep, but there is no way to turn it on again (you have to restart or log out to activate bluetooth again)
* PPP over VPN shuts down after X minutes of idle time, even though the VPN is through the ethernet and should never shut down. You can't change this (and it is inconsistant with how you use ethernet)
* When emptying trash it doesn't tell you how much is being emptied, even though the trash is just a folder like every other folder, and monitoring its size ain't no problem.
* You can quit apps in the Dock, but you can't close windows in the Dock.

(these are off the top of my head)

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Refused to provide some examples or you absolutely have no idea of what you are talking about?

I just replied to JLL, since he asked nicely (not like a bitch).

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by voodoo:
The inconsistancies:
* multiple windows showing exactly the same thing
* how changing the icons of some apps and folders works and others don't (sometimes you need to log out and in again, sometimes it just doesn't work)
* same systemwide services (when as it is you have to remind yourself that you are using Photoshop and it can't do spellchecking through services, when TextEdit can)
* that FTP in the Finder doesn't work as well as FTP in the Terminal, yet both are a part of Mac OS X, really.
* Unicode keyboard layouts exist, but don't stick in the Finder, and can't be used in Carbon apps.
* Bluetooth just turns off when the computer goes to sleep, but there is no way to turn it on again (you have to restart or log out to activate bluetooth again)
* PPP over VPN shuts down after X minutes of idle time, even though the VPN is through the ethernet and should never shut down. You can't change this (and it is inconsistant with how you use ethernet)
* When emptying trash it doesn't tell you how much is being emptied, even though the trash is just a folder like every other folder, and monitoring its size ain't no problem.
* You can quit apps in the Dock, but you can't close windows in the Dock.

(these are off the top of my head)

Yeah you're right, Apple should have built OS X in one day just like the Rome

I know there are some missing features in OS X 10.2 but calling it not ready for prime time is taking it too far. It's well above the beta stage

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Yeah you're right, Apple should have built OS X in one day just like the Rome

I know there are some missing features in OS X 10.2 but calling it not ready for prime time is taking it too far. It's well above the beta stage

I think you read too much into my meaning when I said that 10.3 had better be the OS we've been waiting for. I don't even have Classic installed. I have long since kissed OS 9 goodbye and good-riddance. I still have high expectations for OS X. We all want it to be the best in the world, second to none. We want it because we know (well, I know) that it *can be achieved*. We have an OS today that can arguably be called the best, but I'd like it to be even better.

There haven't really been any GUI changes from 10.2 to 10.2.6 have there? There were at least some minor ones from 10.1 through 10.1.5 IIRC. This static situation is getting on my nerves.

10.3 and PPC 970 are just vapor right now. I'll feel better when Steve unveils them. Zo�n.

[NeXTLoop]

Although I'm still waiting for my issue of Macworld, based on what people have been saying here, it sounds like the writer of the article needs to pull his head out of his butt and smell the coffee (after all, his butt can't smell that good ).

There's actually been a lot of talk lately about Apple really recognizing the need to drastically improve OS X in the areas it still needs improvement. There's been a number of articles online lately about how Apple recognizes the areas where XP actually leads X, and are working to fix those areas in 10.3. To me, that certainly is not indicative of arrogance. Just the opposite, it shows that Apple realizes they're not perfect, they do screw up sometimes, they do miss the mark other times, and generally need to continue to work hard to EARN the reputation they have as innovators.

[ASIMO]

Yeah, voodoo. 'Cos we all know how consistent OS 9 was. It was like...perfect. OS X needs to be more perfect.

[rsh]

It's not all that wise to flame an article you haven't read.

The article *is* provocative... the writer made me think a bit. For all its power, stability, and new features there are still elements of OS X that lack the refinement of the OS <X Finder. Speed is an a bit of an issue too; I believe this is Motorola's fault. Apple designed Aqua with certain expectations about what would happen to processor speed -- expectations that unfortunately didn't materialize.

FWIW, the writer himself has been a big OS X fan... he's just acknowledging the fact that a lot of old school Mac users *aren't*... yet. (And Apple needs to pay attention. Apple can't afford to offer a take it or leave it argument with OS X. Windows XP, particularly in corporate environments, has some compelling arguments of its own.) The writer just notes that certain "Mac-like" features that we take for granted in 10.2 only came about after much bitching and moaning from users and (apparent) resistance from the NeXTies at Apple. (Example: An Apple Menu.)

In any event: I'm pleased with the direction Macworld has taken in the past few months. It's had a good deal of substantive content that is well worth reading since Rick LePage took over as editor. He's brought in some fresh writers, many of them from the web like Rob Griffiths of macosxhints.com.

As to those who long for the glory days of Macworld ~1996: get over it. The world has changed. The web had a dramatic impact on the value of tech magazines. The dotcom bust sucked all the filler ad content out. The new Macworld seems to be trying for real quality, and I like what I see. If you haven't read it in a while, check it out.

[alex_kac]

Eh, some of that isn't OS X's fault.

Originally posted by voodoo:
The inconsistancies:
* multiple windows showing exactly the same thing

Give some examples. In all the cases I've seen so far - its been a good thing. I like it one way, the other person likes it another way.

* how changing the icons of some apps and folders works and others don't (sometimes you need to log out and in again, sometimes it just doesn't work)

Its a cache thing - yes, it needs to be fixed.

[quote]
* same systemwide services (when as it is you have to remind yourself that you are using Photoshop and it can't do spellchecking through services, when TextEdit can)
/quote]
That's the fault of Adobe. OS X provides the ability systemwide, but programmers have to turn it on in their text fields.

* that FTP in the Finder doesn't work as well as FTP in the Terminal, yet both are a part of Mac OS X, really.

Agreed, would be nice. However they are two different things. One is a piece of GNU software, the other is Apple proprietary software. Now...there are big issues here because FTP doesn't map exactly to how the Finder wants to work. So I hope they get that straightened out. However, OS 9 didn't even do this.

[mosch]

Originally posted by voodoo:

* Bluetooth just turns off when the computer goes to sleep, but there is no way to turn it on again (you have to restart or log out to activate bluetooth again)

Is this bug fixed or something, as I can't seem to duplicate it using a PB12 and a T68i.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by mosch:
Is this bug fixed or something, as I can't seem to duplicate it using a PB12 and a T68i.

I have the D-Link adapter. They may have fixed it for the built in bluetooth.

[DeathMan]

I didn't particularly like the article, but I think it did bring into perspective the feelings of a lot of Mac users. Surprisingly, my Dad, and old Mac user from the early days was begging me to get OSX on his computer cause he wanted to use iPhoto. He didn't seem to have big qualms about a lot of the stuff people generally complain about. He's a patient guy, though, and doesn't mind rebooting to use quark xpress or whatever.

I think that OSX could still be OSX, and be more mac like, in the traditional apple-menu sense, but I'm also not opposed to change. I use column view and love it. The other views seem a little inflexible to me.

I don't really enjoy MacWorld much, but I got a free subscription, so thats cool. Maybe I'll get MacAddict sometime. Or just read the Inter-net.

[BuonRotto]

Most of this refers to the Finder, which people can't seem to understand that the Finder does not equal the system. Other than that, we're talking about CPUs, or we're talking about running OS X with its 3rd generation graphics technology on old machines, which is just a circular argument to make.

[DigitalEl]

Originally posted by rsh:
It's not all that wise to flame an article you haven't read.

The article *is* provocative... the writer made me think a bit. For all its power, stability, and new features there are still elements of OS X that lack the refinement of the OS X Finder.

<snip>

FWIW, the writer himself has been a big OS X fan... he's just acknowledging the fact that a lot of old school Mac users *aren't*... yet. (And Apple needs to pay attention. Apple can't afford to offer a take it or leave it argument with OS X. Windows XP, particularly in corporate environments, has some compelling arguments of its own.) The writer just notes that certain "Mac-like" features that we take for granted in 10.2 only came about after much bitching and moaning from users and (apparent) resistance from the NeXTies at Apple. (Example: An Apple Menu.)

Well said. I didn't come away from the column feeling the writer was bashing OS X. It just made me think a little more objectively about where we've been and where we're headed. I, for one, hope Apple has the same reaction to it, instead of Stevie J reading it and being offended.

One of the writer's major points is that a lot of features which were favorites in OS 9, were taken away for no good reason (that we know of). I didn't use Labels, but can understand why some people did. Why no Labels? We finally got Spring-Loaded Folders back relatively recently. As others have pointed out, having an Apple Menu in OS X was sort of a last-minute decision. Stuff like that. I think the writer was simply blaming the NeXT camp for pissing people off for no good reason and asking why?

[libraryguy]

Originally posted by :XI::
How about some examples of NeXT arrogance towards the feature set.

What month issue is it? I can get the US editions here so I'll go and take a look.

As for other magazines, can you get the UK MacUser in the States? It's thicker than the US MacWorld, fortnightly, now has a CD-ROM and it's thinkness hasn't changed for at least the last 4 years (looking at the two years wirth stack of issues on my floor and remembering the previous stack which I had to get rid of )

Actually, I'm pretty sure we can get the UK macuser here in the states. I've seen in at Barnes and Nobles on several occasions and have noticed that it is quit thick with a lot of content...maybe I'll pick one up soon.

[libraryguy]

Originally posted by MindFad:
Only a CD, I believe, like MacAddict. But I think it's extra for MacWorld; I canceled my subscription long ago, so I don't know. I'll probably sit out this remaining Mac Addict renewal unless the 970 comes out and the mags get more exciting.

I cancelled my subscription too. Partly because I feel if I'm paying for a subscription I should at LEAST get the CD that comes with the newsstand version. However, at least when I was a subscriber, you didn't get the CD, only the mag. How does that make sense???

[moki]

Originally posted by OptimusG4:
Ah, the days of NeXT buying Apple..er, I mean the other way around Well, I can't say there isn't any truth to the arrogance...I mean, when Apple bought NeXT, they basically bought the development team and all their technologies, and if I remember correctly, a lot of the NeXT engineers criticized the MacOS.

Yes, and there certainly is some friction between the camps at Apple, even now.

[ablaze]

Originally posted by voodoo:
I have the D-Link adapter. They may have fixed it for the built in bluetooth.

I have the D-Link Adapter, too. It seems to be fixed here since 10.2.6. I also had this problem under 10.2.5 but now it's gone.

[Coxy]

Originally posted by osxisfun:
if steve jobs didn't come back at the time he did apple would be dead.

if apple had continued to "improve" OS9, instead of starting over with OSX they would be dead.

:shrug:
Rhapsody would have shipped before Mac OS X ended up ready.

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by voodoo:
* multiple windows showing exactly the same thing

How is this a bad thing? If you mean in the Finder, I don't find it a problem and there are occasions when this is very useful.

* how changing the icons of some apps and folders works and others don't

Well, agreed, LaunchServices is a bit bollocks.

* same systemwide services (when as it is you have to remind yourself that you are using Photoshop and it can't do spellchecking through services, when TextEdit can)

It's not possible to expect Carbon applications like Photoshop to automatically inherit the functionality which is free with Cocoa's text subsystem. However, Apple has provided example code on how to use spellchecking from Carbon if you want to - it's up to developers to implement it. You can't blame Apple for Photoshop's feature set. Not to mention, I can't really see why you'd need spell checking in a graphics application, it's not like you'd be writing an essay in it.

* that FTP in the Finder doesn't work as well as FTP in the Terminal, yet both are a part of Mac OS X, really.

FTP doesn't map directly to a filesystem's way of behaving. For example, FTP doesn't support the changing of files (open a file, skip ahead to the middle, insert some data, close); you have to upload the entire file again. For reasons such as this, the FTP filesystem support (which is below Finder, really - it makes FTP psuedo-volumes accessible system-wide) is implemented as read-only. If you need full read/write support, you might like to investigate WebDAV.

* Unicode keyboard layouts exist, but don't stick in the Finder, and can't be used in Carbon apps.

Not entirely sure what you mean here. Again, your statement about "Carbon apps" may be blaming Apple for the inadequacies of 3rd party applications.

* Bluetooth just turns off when the computer goes to sleep, but there is no way to turn it on again (you have to restart or log out to activate bluetooth again)

Uh, on my PB there's a menu extra for turning it on and off at will. You can also turn it on manually in its System Preferences pane. Actually, my PB turns bluetooth back on after sleep, too. You don't specify what hardware you're using.

* PPP over VPN shuts down after X minutes of idle time, even though the VPN is through the ethernet and should never shut down. You can't change this (and it is inconsistant with how you use ethernet)

Never used that, but given your responses above I'd be surprised if you actually couldn't change that, I think it's probably more you don't know how to change it.

* When emptying trash it doesn't tell you how much is being emptied, even though the trash is just a folder like every other folder, and monitoring its size ain't no problem.

I don't see why this is a major problem. I'd rather not have it sit there and tot up how much space all the files take up when I tell it to empty the trash, personally.

* You can quit apps in the Dock, but you can't close windows in the Dock.

I don't see why one logically leads to the other, but you're right, this would be nice.

[icruise]

Mulitple windows showing the same thing goes against the desktop metaphor, which was the heart of the classic OS. (You have your files in folders that mimic the way actual files and folders work). You aren't likely to have two file folders on your desk that have the same contents (barring some kind of rip in the space-time continuum).

I don't know how much of a problem it is in actual use, but it is an example of how things that were once taken for granted have changed.