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Stradlater · 12:16 PM

Boy, after completing the thread I guess I have to go there...

Stradlater's Coffee Tips

Buy whole-bean. As soon as coffee is ground, it dramatically drops in freshness/flavor over about 15 minutes to an hour -- after that, it's just not going to be that great anymore.
Buy fresh. Coffee is only really fresh for about a week after roasting, after that, the stuff is going to be mediocre at best.
Grinders are important. While you might be able to get by with a $10-20ish blade grinder ("chopper") for french-pressed and drip coffee, that won't fly with espresso. You need a burr grinder that grinds fine enough, and you're looking at an investment. Coffee taste is all about extraction. Under-extraction leads to a sour taste. Over-extraction leads to bitterness. Choppers unevenly pulverize beans into both powder and pebbles in a single batch. That'll lead to the powder being over-extracted and the pebbles under-extracted, leading to a cup of mediocrity.
Machine is important. French presses are cheap and make great coffee, but if you like espresso, you'll -- again -- need to invest. Stove-top pots don't cut it and don't make real espresso. Invest in a real machine, with portafilter and the works.

These are just starting points

Some people think it's ridiculous to spend >$500 on coffee machines, but my grinder and espresso machine ran me about $800. Then again, at my old rate of consumption, I was spending over $1000/year for my $3 single-cup-a-day habit.

That $3 cup, after my investment, was down to about $0.15/cup, and tasted worlds (I mean worlds!) better.

I roast my own beans now, too, (which is easy -- 4 minutes with a $10 popcorn popper) and it costs me less than five cents for a cappuccino or double espresso -- and it, for the most part, tastes worlds better still. There's absolutely nothing like drinking a truly fresh cup -- and it's an indulgence I exploit several times a day.

If you like coffee and want to taste the real stuff, again, goto:
http://www.coffeegeek.com/

Explore the forums and reviews.

budster101 · Apr 7, 2005, 12:18 PM

I actually took a snapshot of that post so I could use it later on when I have some money to spend...

I bow to your superior coffee knowledge! (BrewmasterStradler)

JohnSmithXTREME · Apr 7, 2005, 12:22 PM

Call me a conformist, but I drink standard Starbucks/Costa Coffee. I don't really want to go out of my way to find a new place to relax and get my caffeine fix. Sometimes I'll try out a small, local cafe, but I always get put off by the longer waiting times, the unfamiliar menu, etc. I know, I'm lazy!

Stradlater · Apr 7, 2005, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by budster101:
I actually took a snapshot of that post so I could use it later on when I have some money to spend...

I bow to your superior coffee knowledge! (BrewmasterStradler)

Enjoy the journey.

I know some people aren't willing to spend more than $50, tops, on a coffee machine, but when I think about how $3 gets me a whole pound of coffee now (instead of a single cup), and that the coffee is immeasurably better, I think people could reconsider.

There's nothing like fresh coffee; unfortunately, not many people know what it tastes like.

Cody Dawg said that she couldn't tell the different between coffees from different regions -- which is probably because once coffees become stale, they lose their uniqueness. Most people are just used to coffee that is stale.

demograph68 · Apr 7, 2005, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by BoomStick:
I don't drink coffee or eat chocolate.

Check 2 off the guilty pleasure list for me too then.

Athens · Apr 7, 2005, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
Don't take it so seriously, Athens.

I don't eat Canadian beef because our government does not allow it.

However, if Canadian salmon was available at my grocery store, I'd buy it. I wouldn't have a problem with eating it. I'm not that picky nor are my convictions that strong.

My family is Canadian, by the way. They are from Tecumseh and other areas in Canada, originally.

I don't even have a clue where Tecumseh is, sounds Manitobian

I stay away from all sea food, to many chemicals in it which is a pity cuz I love West Coast Salmon. Fresh water fish yum yum.

Athens · Apr 7, 2005, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
No, we're not Inuit.

How do I determine where we get our coffee? I buy Colombian coffee as a general rule. Also, a friend of ours has a few Dunkin' Donuts stores so he usually gives us 20 pound bags of whole bean for $10 each. It's actually my favorite coffee.

Look for Fair Trade coffee, that is child labor free, same for any product, Fair Trade anything is safe from child labor, but its more expensive and hasent cought on much in North America.

Athens · Apr 7, 2005, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by Randman:
I'm still trying to figure why athens thought this was important enough to create a new thread rather than just posting in the other thread about boycotts.

Because this should turn into a child labor, chocolate and coffee thread

JohnSmithXTREME · Apr 7, 2005, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by Athens:
Look for Fair Trade coffee, that is child labor free, same for any product, Fair Trade anything is safe from child labor, but its more expensive and hasent cought on much in North America.

Fairtrade also hurts the poorest of the coffee producing countries because wealthier developing countries like mexico make a majority of fair-trade coffee.

Athens · Apr 7, 2005, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by JohnSmithXTREME:
Fairtrade also hurts the poorest of the coffee producing countries because wealthier developing countries like mexico make a majority of fair-trade coffee.

I personally find it a hard call to not buy stuff that has child labour. There is one part of me that dosent because of my North American standards of that being wrong, but ive seen documentries about boycotts and in the end it takes away the only income some of these ppl have. Some times young kids are working because they need too. Others they are working because they are forced to by parents. And others are orfens that are kid napped or lost and sold and traded as slaves.

nonhuman · Apr 7, 2005, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by Athens:
I personally find it a hard call to not buy stuff that has child labour. There is one part of me that dosent because of my North American standards of that being wrong, but ive seen documentries about boycotts and in the end it takes away the only income some of these ppl have. Some times young kids are working because they need too. Others they are working because they are forced to by parents. And others are orfens that are kid napped or lost and sold and traded as slaves.

Yep. Stop buying things made through child labor and those child laborers lose what little economic value they have. Then what happens to them?

Cody Dawg · Apr 7, 2005, 01:59 PM

I agree with you Athens.

By the way, I went to a fancy schmancy coffee tasting thingamajig recently and I STILL could not taste the difference between coffees. I could tell when I got to chocolate and then to hazelnut, but the rest tasted all the same to me.

How do you guys drink your coffee?

I use a LOT of cream.

Maybe that's why they all taste the same to me. I hate black coffee.

<Blegh/wince>

Athens · Apr 7, 2005, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
I agree with you Athens.

By the way, I went to a fancy schmancy coffee tasting thingamajig recently and I STILL could not taste the difference between coffees. I could tell when I got to chocolate and then to hazelnut, but the rest tasted all the same to me.

How do you guys drink your coffee?

I use a LOT of cream.

Maybe that's why they all taste the same to me. I hate black coffee.

<Blegh/wince>

My Coffee is Pepsi

Cody Dawg · Apr 7, 2005, 02:17 PM

I heard that Pepsi (and Coke) leave certain acids in your liver and that it can cause liver cancer.

I love Coke though.

(Is this thread now about Pepsi and Coke?

)

Stradlater · Apr 7, 2005, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
How do you guys drink your coffee?

In the morning: espresso and frothed whole milk a la cappuccino. One small spoonful of sugar and, if I'm in the mood, some cinnamon or cocoa sprinkled on top.

Otherwise: double espresso, straight -- with at most one small demitasse spoonful of sugar.

Sometimes: americano or french press with milk and sugar depending on mood.

What kind of "fancy" tasting was this? Black coffee -- if not overroasted and fresh/freshly ground -- should not taste bitter (or sour). Most people I know that don't like black coffee turn out to like the espressos I make (with sugar, surely).

Most people are used to poorly-prepared black coffee, of which milk or cream will mask most issues in quality.

Athens · Apr 7, 2005, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
I heard that Pepsi (and Coke) leave certain acids in your liver and that it can cause liver cancer.

I love Coke though.

(Is this thread now about Pepsi and Coke? )

COKE SUCKS! Pepsi is the Macs of pop

pop kills teeth, adds weight and other bad stuff

Stradlater · Apr 7, 2005, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Athens:
COKE SUCKS! Pepsi is the Macs of pop

pop kills teeth, adds weight and other bad stuff

Pepsi's too sweet. Coke is better in America. Mexican Coke, however, you can't beat. English Coke, however, is terrible...most European Coke is, actually. I don't know if Canadian Coke differs from American Coke.

(Yes, the formulas for Coke _are_ different depending on location/nation.)

JohnSmithXTREME · Apr 7, 2005, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Athens:
I personally find it a hard call to not buy stuff that has child labour. There is one part of me that dosent because of my North American standards of that being wrong, but ive seen documentries about boycotts and in the end it takes away the only income some of these ppl have. Some times young kids are working because they need too. Others they are working because they are forced to by parents. And others are orfens that are kid napped or lost and sold and traded as slaves.

I'm not condoning child labour, I'm just pointing out that Fair Trade is not as good as you might think it is. Sure, we in the west may feel better about ourselves for drinking Fair Trade, but what about the poorer countries in the world like Ethiopia? They get the bad end of the deal, while richer countries like Mexico reap the benefits of increased sales due to Fair Trade. Fair Trade, in my opinion, is too concerned with Occidental sensitivities, and hurts the countries who need help the most.

RAILhead · Apr 7, 2005, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
I agree with you Athens.

By the way, I went to a fancy schmancy coffee tasting thingamajig recently and I STILL could not taste the difference between coffees. I could tell when I got to chocolate and then to hazelnut, but the rest tasted all the same to me.

How do you guys drink your coffee?

I use a LOT of cream.

Maybe that's why they all taste the same to me. I hate black coffee.

<Blegh/wince>

2 sugars, 1 cream. If I want to enjoy the flavor as intended "naturally", then I take it straight so the cream/sugar/honey/whatever doesn't cover the pure taste.

Im also a big time Gevalia fan -- I've been with them for going on 7 years now.

Maury

AKcrab · Apr 7, 2005, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
(I love Costco, by the way. Buy salmon for $3.99 a pound there...buy my HP inks there at about 25% less than retail...buy everything I can from their store.)

**grumbles and mumbles words about farmed salmon**

Cody Dawg · Apr 7, 2005, 05:24 PM

I know. I hate farmed salmon. But I cannot seem to find the "natural" stuff ANYWHERE down here in Florida.

Athens · Apr 7, 2005, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by Stradlater:
Pepsi's too sweet. Coke is better in America. Mexican Coke, however, you can't beat. English Coke, however, is terrible...most European Coke is, actually. I don't know if Canadian Coke differs from American Coke.

(Yes, the formulas for Coke _are_ different depending on location/nation.)

it does so does pepsi, i found us coke a bit better and us pepsi worse

Cody Dawg · Apr 7, 2005, 05:45 PM

Since this thread is so daring and evolved, perhaps one of us should brew coffee with Pepsi or Coke instead of water?

Athens · Apr 7, 2005, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by AKcrab:
**grumbles and mumbles words about farmed salmon**

most ppl here in bc hate it too. thats why they arnt allowed to expand.

*grumble alaska over fishing*

Athens · Apr 7, 2005, 05:48 PM

i love this thread, its actually one of my more fav ones. It feels more like we are all talking at a Tim Hortons with coffee then a hard core debate. We have covered child labor, coffee, chocolate, seals, fish farming and just general chat all in one thread with a bunch of people with out it getting to hot, and its remaind all civilized

This is my kind of debating.

Cody Dawg · Apr 7, 2005, 06:01 PM

True, Athens.

Take note of the people here who are posting - civilly - and take note of the people who are NOT.

AKcrab · Apr 7, 2005, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by Athens:
*grumble alaska over fishing*

I would diagree that we over fish...
But we certainly do steal yours.

Remember the fishermen who surrounded the Alaska State Ferry with their fishing boats and wouldn't let it get under way? Good times, good times.

Coffee, Chocolate, and Fish. Best political/war lounge thread ever.

Athens · Apr 7, 2005, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by AKcrab:
I would diagree that we over fish...
But we certainly do steal yours.

Remember the fishermen who surrounded the Alaska State Ferry with their fishing boats and wouldn't let it get under way? Good times, good times.

Coffee, Chocolate, and Fish. Best political/war lounge thread ever.

well we could ad a few more things in here LOL like clintons sexual activities, no one is talking much about Wacko Jacko. There was another shooting at a school today. Hell we could make fun of Russas Leaders

there is SOOO much we could cover here in lala land hehe. But I insist that you brew a Pepsi/Coke coffee and have a donut with you at all times. Just to keep things civilized

Athens · Apr 7, 2005, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by AKcrab:
I would diagree that we over fish...
But we certainly do steal yours.

Remember the fishermen who surrounded the Alaska State Ferry with their fishing boats and wouldn't let it get under way? Good times, good times.

Coffee, Chocolate, and Fish. Best political/war lounge thread ever.

Yes you do and in turn we take Seattles Cruise Ship industry

See this is so much better then bashing each other. I feel revitalized as a macnner.

SimpleLife · Apr 7, 2005, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
Don't worry about me, f1000. I'm okay - really.

I was having some weird numbness in my legs after rollerblading about 8 years ago. I thought I imagined it, to be honest.

The next thing that happened was about a year later when my left hand and arm went numb. I thought it was carpal tunnel syndrome.

Then I had a baby, another year later, and when I came home I had a hard time balancing. I thought it was from having a baby and just tried to ignore it. When it did not stop after one or two episodes I had an MRI and the plaques, or lesions on the brain, could clearly be seen.

It is a disease that, for most, is remitting. I have a very benign form of it - so far. I have no other problems other than issues with my extremities when I have an attack. I had a flare up about two months ago that was probably the worst with muscle twitches and muscle spasms all over, followed by deep muscle pain. My left leg was numb for a while. But, it went away after about a week (the key to controlling it is getting enough sleep and staying VERY cool - heat makes it much worse) and I had no lasting effects. Some people have very severe problems with it (swallowing problems, eyesight problems, inability to walk, etc.,) but I've been very fortunate because I am physically fine and unlike some other people, with no lasting problems except for a numb left hand.

You would never know that I have it, to be honest. I do everything that everyone else does. I just have to make sure that I eat the right things and get exercise and most of all, stay cool and avoid a lot of physical trauma to the body.

I am confident that in the next 10 to 20 years that there will be a successful drug that will be developed that will permanently control it.

There are a lot of people who have this disease, actually. Some don't even know that they have it.

Cody Dawg, that is one great spirit in front of this situation: good for you!

Keep on taking care of yourself; you are the most important person of your life, so taking good care of yourself is also giving the best chances for your family to really appreciate your presence for a long time.

Take care!

Cody Dawg · Apr 7, 2005, 06:46 PM

Let's talk about fishing.

I love to fish.

I fish at the Jupiter pier (click on the link below and you'll see the jetty and at the end is where we fish) and we catch grouper, sand perch, and the occasional snook that is running. I love to fish. Don't go out on our little boat very often because it makes me seasick.

to fishing.

Athens · Apr 7, 2005, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
Let's talk about fishing.

I love to fish.

I fish at the Jupiter pier (click on the link below and you'll see the jetty and at the end is where we fish) and we catch grouper, sand perch, and the occasional snook that is running. I love to fish. Don't go out on our little boat very often because it makes me seasick.

to fishing.

Ive been fishing in the Frasier River, Como Lake, and a few other places when I was younger. Now I fish for woman

just no idea whats the best bait yet.

Cody Dawg · Apr 7, 2005, 07:06 PM

SimpleLife --->

That was so sweet...thank you!

I don't know why I like to fish except that I grew up fishing in Michigan and Canada. We'd go out on Lake Huron and catch perch. I remember catching small mouth bass also. Of all my friends I'm the only woman that likes to fish.

Here we catch small snapper and I always throw them back. One night we cleaned them and I fried them and they were great. But, I hate killing them, to be honest. They're not that big and it's just as easy to run over to the supermarket and buy the fillets that they bring in daily - locals sell them to the supermarkets.

JohnSmithXTREME · 08:37 PM

Cody Dawg, do you want to marry me on MacNN?

Cody Dawg · 10:47 PM

Yes, I do.

(EDITED: Very funny, JohnSmithEXTREME! "Yes I do...LIVE IN FLORIDA."

)

JohnSmithXTREME · 08:38 PM

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
Yes, I do.

yay!

SimpleLife · Apr 7, 2005, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by JohnSmithXTREME:
My mistake, I read your post wrong.

LOL

SimpleLife · Apr 7, 2005, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
SimpleLife ---> That was so sweet...thank you!

I don't know why I like to fish except that I grew up fishing in Michigan and Canada. We'd go out on Lake Huron and catch perch. I remember catching small mouth bass also. Of all my friends I'm the only woman that likes to fish.

Here we catch small snapper and I always throw them back. One night we cleaned them and I fried them and they were great. But, I hate killing them, to be honest. They're not that big and it's just as easy to run over to the supermarket and buy the fillets that they bring in daily - locals sell them to the supermarkets.

I used to eat trout raw.

What a feeling. These were great! That was when I lived in Nunavik. Cariboo were walking nearby and we were surrounded by black flies coming from everywhere.

That was great. I miss those times. Not the black flies though...

JohnSmithXTREME · 08:39 PM

Right, the wedding is on for tomorrow then!

SimpleLife · Apr 7, 2005, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
SimpleLife ---> That was so sweet...thank you!

I don't know why I like to fish except that I grew up fishing in Michigan and Canada. We'd go out on Lake Huron and catch perch. I remember catching small mouth bass also. Of all my friends I'm the only woman that likes to fish.

Here we catch small snapper and I always throw them back. One night we cleaned them and I fried them and they were great. But, I hate killing them, to be honest. They're not that big and it's just as easy to run over to the supermarket and buy the fillets that they bring in daily - locals sell them to the supermarkets.

I used to eat trout raw.

What a feeling. These were great! That was when I lived in Nunavik. Cariboo were walking nearby and we were surrounded by black flies coming from everywhere.

That was great. I miss those times. Not the black flies though...

To the mods: this thread is now political Canadian Style. In Canada, Liberals have a red logo, and red being the colour of blood, it is easy to deduce that Conservatives are the Blood suckers (black flies and all ya know), etc...

(where's my beer?)

AKcrab · Apr 7, 2005, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
Let's talk about fishing.

I love to fish.

I've stopped fishing.

Why?

Have to pay someone to fly you somewhere or get yourself a boat if you want to avoid what you see above.

Jim Paradise · Apr 8, 2005, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by Athens:
I don't even have a clue where Tecumseh is, sounds Manitobian

I stay away from all sea food, to many chemicals in it which is a pity cuz I love West Coast Salmon. Fresh water fish yum yum.

It's in Southern Ontario near Essex region.

Athens · Apr 8, 2005, 03:43 AM

Originally posted by Jim Paradise:
It's in Southern Ontario near Essex region.

Oh part of Greater Greater Toronto

Cody Dawg · Apr 8, 2005, 07:39 AM

It's near Windsor, you guys.

AKCrab: That many fisherman is terrible. I would hate that - totally. That isn't even really...fishing. What IS that?

Jim Paradise · 06:50 AM

Originally posted by Athens:
Oh part of Greater Greater Toronto

Edit.

Cody Dawg · Apr 8, 2005, 01:04 PM

Gravy on fries...Mmmmm...

andi*pandi · Apr 8, 2005, 04:49 PM

this thread belongs in the regular lounge. MODS!

Topic: I didn't know they used child labor for coffee... just as well I don't drink much of it. Chocolate however... Hmm.

and those fishing shots are crazy, how are those people not getting hooks in each others eyes? Too crowded!

JohnSmithXTREME · Apr 8, 2005, 05:02 PM

I know, this thread is not nearly as bitter as it should be. Something has gone awry in the politics forum!

budster101 · Apr 8, 2005, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by JohnSmithXTREME:
I know, this thread is not nearly as bitter as it should be. Something has gone awry in the politics forum!

That will soon end... oh yes...

Cody Dawg · Apr 8, 2005, 06:05 PM

Quick! Someone bring up eating chocolate in Iraq! Or, drinking coffee in church - which churches allow it and why?

Hi andi*pandi* how are you? (andi*pandi is one of my favorite people here at MacNN.)

Where's L'il Baby Kitten these days?