[TC]

There was a topic yesterday posted by someone complaining about OS X as usual.
The whole thing got well out of hand and there where abusive posts.
Now the whole topic has vanished and looking through my history of posts doesn't show anything I entered there!

People involved include besson, JLL and El Pre$idente.

Hey mods, whats going on? I know there where complaints about the topic (I made a few myself) but I didn't realise you would delete a complete topic. Feels as if you are cleaning up after someone made a complete dik of themselves.

[El Pre$idente]

If people can't stay on topic then I'll side with the mods on this one.

[JLL]

Originally posted by TC:
There was a topic yesterday posted by someone complaining about OS X as usual.
The whole thing got well out of hand and there where abusive posts.
Now the whole topic has vanished and looking through my history of posts doesn't show anything I entered there!

People involved include besson, JLL and El Pre$idente.

Hey mods, whats going on? I know there where complaints about the topic (I made a few myself) but I didn't realise you would delete a complete topic. Feels as if you are cleaning up after someone made a complete dik of themselves.

I vote for locking threads - not deleting them.

[JLL]

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:
If people can't stay on topic then I'll side with the mods on this one.

It was you who went off topic and called people names.

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by JLL:


It was you who went off topic and called people names.

Sure. Keep making yourself believe that over and over again.

[JLL]

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:


Sure. Keep making yourself believe that over and over again.

Your second post in that thread included 'your f****ing mor**' and other words like that.

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by JLL:


Your second post in that thread included 'your f****ing mor**' and other words like that.

And Besson's first post in that thread was nothing but an entire insult with nothing about improving iDisk's performance or anything related to the topic. Others were decent enough to stay on topic. If you think someone just starts swearing without any antagonism to start that off then you are a first class computer worshipping troll who will side with anybody who won't allow an ounce of criticism. That makes you a fanatic and if you were a politician or religious you'd be the worst kind.

[JLL]

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:


And Besson's first post in that thread was nothing but an entire insult with nothing about improving iDisk's performance or anything related to the topic. Others were decent enough to stay on topic. If you think someone just starts swearing without any antagonism to start that off then you are a first class computer worshipping troll who will side with anybody who won't allow an ounce of criticism. That makes you a fanatic and if you were a politician or religious you'd be the worst kind.

Besson told you to try another WebDAV server, and he sarcastically gave you his permission to dump .Mac.

Did he call you names? No!

Did he swear? No!

Did his post give you the right to call him names? Certainly not!!!

[eno]

And what about that thread where I called Adam Betts a "stupid deaf bastard"?

That one seems to be gone too.

I vote for locking, not deleting.

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by JLL:


Besson told you to try another WebDAV server, and he sarcastically gave you his permission to dump .Mac.

Did he call you names? No!

Did he swear? No!

Did his post give you the right to call him names? Certainly not!!!

He kept up the stupid insults about being a Wintroll and that I should dump Macs. It's insulting and degrading. I put him in his place just as you would if you had the balls.

[macmike42]

<McBainVoice>Maybe you ALL are homesexuals!</McBainVoice>

[JLL]

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:


He kept up the stupid insults about being a Wintroll and that I should dump Macs. It's insulting and degrading. I put him in his place just as you would if you had the balls.

It's not about having balls or not - it's about the capability to discuss without calling people names.

You end up looking like someone who can't argue without cursing - someone who in real life starts hitting people when they run out of arguments.

[JLL]

Originally posted by eno:
And what about that thread where I called Adam Betts a "stupid deaf bastard"?

That one seems to be gone too.

I vote for locking, not deleting.

Certainly not a brilliant thing to say, but the thread shouldn't have been deleted because of it.

[Millennium]

I apologize.

I did not, in fact, delete that topic. What I did was move it into the Moderators forum, where the other mods could take a look. I should have copied it; I apologize for that error in my judgment. A comment was added to it in the Moderators forum; if not for that, I would copy it back now.

However, Kelly, I have only one thing to say to you:

You're a ****ing degenerate moron cafone. Why don't you take that cork out of your ass and replace it with the elephant **** your mother has been sucking since she was born.

That last bit was cut and pasted from a response of yours in the thread. So don't you dare tell me you weren't being abusive and flaming. What the heck is a "cafone", anyway?

Again, I made an error in my judgment by moving, rather than copying, the thread in question. You have my sincerest apologies for that. I would copy it back, were the thread not now containing a discussion on what to do about this.

For the record, insulting people's mothers is considered flaming. I thought this was common sense. As for your interesting little sig, I find it quite interesting that you, who aren't even in the US, would be commenting on a situation which, if you had any knowledge of US history whatsoever, you would know ended well before you were even born. It is true that at one time, blacks were prevented from voting, first by overt legal prohibition, then indirectly by poll taxes and such. That is only one of many black marks (if you'll pardon the expression) on the history of the US. It has also been ended.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by eno:
And what about that thread where I called Adam Betts a "stupid deaf bastard"?

That one seems to be gone too.

I vote for locking, not deleting.

That one was not my doing. I don't know who deleted that one. It is possible, however, that it was moved to the Moderators forum, as I did, and a locked copy was not left behind. I can look for it, but I can't move it back, unfortunately. On further examination of the Moderators forum, it appears that only Administrators can move or copy something out of it, though any moderator can copy or move something in.

I agree now that when things are moved to the Moderators forum, a locked copy should be left behind as well. I apologize for my previous mistake.

[besson3c]

That last bit was cut and pasted from a response of yours in the thread. So don't you dare tell me you weren't being abusive and flaming. What the heck is a "cafone", anyway?

Honestly, this part (and the part about my Mom and farm animals) was just so far over the top that it really didn't offend me.

What I'd suggest considering as a moderator (which I'm sure you have been) is whether this level of annoyance is worth it to us all. I have no problem with immature subject matter, but it shouldn't be asserted into every single thread. It just dominates the conversation.

That's just my opinion, and seeing how Kelly now has several different handles it appears as if past attempts to make him stop/go away have failed.

[eno]

Originally posted by besson3c:

That's just my opinion, and seeing how Kelly now has several different handles it appears as if past attempts to make him stop/go away have failed.

I'd be interested to see a definitive list of nicks for Kelly....

I used to recognise him by his hapless posts of problems which nobody else seemed to have: install problems, hard drive erasures, hardware failures etc. It became quite comical after a while.

[moki]

Only thing I'm amazed about is that Kelly Hogan hasn't just been banned outright. The moderators here are quite patient, it seems.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by moki:
Only thing I'm amazed about is that Kelly Hogan hasn't just been banned outright. The moderators here are quite patient, it seems.

We are considering it. This last thread has been, shall we say, quite an eye-opener.

[Appleman]

He'll just open a new account, wouln't he?

What's the fuzz? Why not just ignore him?

[snerdini]

Originally posted by Appleman:
He'll just open a new account, wouln't he?

What's the fuzz? Why not just ignore him?

They would most likely block his IP. It's not fail-proof, but pretty good.

[Appleman]

So what if you have a dynamic IP-address?

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by besson3c:


That's just my opinion, and seeing how Kelly now has several different handles it appears as if past attempts to make him stop/go away have failed.

How two becomes 'several' defies explanation.

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by Millennium:

We are considering it. This last thread has been, shall we say, quite an eye-opener.

It was an eye opener that after many OSX updates someone is still having trouble with iDisk or it is an eye opener that someone gets pissed off because they constantly get attacked by computer worshipping fanatics?

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by eno:


I'd be interested to see a definitive list of nicks for Kelly....

I used to recognise him by his hapless posts of problems which nobody else seemed to have: install problems, hard drive erasures, hardware failures etc. It became quite comical after a while.

Actually every single problem was well documented by others. It just got to the point that people were jealous that I was always buying the latest and greatest Macs and couldn't stand the fast that the computer company they worship as a God was not as perfect as they wished. This has been covered several times already. It's basically a mob mentality. You feel good being part of a mob. Makes you feel like you have friends. Individual thought and rationality doesn't matter. Just insult the guy who 'Think's Different' and see what lies you can spread about him (he starts the flame wars, he has millions of handles, etc)

[cwasko]

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:


It was an eye opener that after many OSX updates someone is still having trouble with iDisk or it is an eye opener that someone gets pissed off because they constantly get attacked by computer worshipping fanatics?

It was an eye opener becasue you are belligerent and unable to actualy have a conversation with people - under any circumstance.

[JLL]

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:


It was an eye opener that after many OSX updates someone is still having trouble with iDisk or it is an eye opener that someone gets pissed off because they constantly get attacked by computer worshipping fanatics?

And you have compared iDisk to other WebDAV services?

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by JLL:


And you have compared iDisk to other WebDAV services?

Again, a silly response. The type one expects from a fanatic. Why should I give a damn about other WebDAV services when I'm using OSX, iDisk is integrated in the OS and I pay for .mac membership? Why am I not allowed to ask for an explanation for my poor service without a straight answer?

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by cwasko:


It was an eye opener becasue you are belligerent and unable to actualy have a conversation with people - under any circumstance.

Oh. Maybe because I get response like that 'sometimes' from 'some people' (I don't pigeon hole everyone like JLL and his 'none of us like you' nonsense).

[besson3c]

It was an eye opener that after many OSX updates someone is still having trouble with iDisk or it is an eye opener that someone gets pissed off because they constantly get attacked by computer worshipping fanatics?

It's an eye opener that you didn't even read my constructive message, you just proceeded to get into the farm animals.

iDisk is just a WebDav server. While the Finder can improve things like threading and providing a way to turn off icon previews in icon view mode, it's otherwise not really an OS X problem. Just because there is an "i" in the title and Apple provides the service, it doesn't make it some magical service that Apple invented and is completely technologically accountable for.

Try accessing a WebDav server in any other OS and tell us what you find. You know what? Even Windows has to access files off of a webserver over port 80 - it's the same basic process.

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by besson3c:


It's an eye opener that you didn't even read my constructive message, you just proceeded to get into the farm animals.

Your constructive message was basically amounting to '**** off and use Windows if you don't like it'. That's what it feels like when one doesn't get a decent explanation.

And elephants aren't kept on farms.

[cwasko]

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:


Your constructive message was basically amounting to '**** off and use Windows if you don't like it'. That's what it feels like when one doesn't get a decent explanation.

And elephants aren't kept on farms.

So, it basicaly came down to the simple fact that you did not like his response and then proceeded to insult him *and* his mother. And you see that a perfectly acceptable response? You feel that you were in the right by doing that?

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by besson3c:



iDisk is just a WebDav server. While the Finder can improve things like threading and providing a way to turn off icon previews in icon view mode, it's otherwise not really an OS X problem.

I think a large part of the problem is actually the thumbnail icon previews. So it is an OSX problem. Browsing folders without images is fast, not bad at all.

Let's please be rational. I was working on a 'sites' folder. We use images on websites. For people using iDisk to manage their sites the Finder/OSX/iDisk/WebDAV is the worst combination possible. Who's fault is that? Apple's. Should users complain? Yes.

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by cwasko:


So, it basicaly came down to the simple fact that you did not like his response and then proceeded to indulst him and his mother. And you see that a perfectly acceptable response? You feel that you were in the right by doing that?

I'd like to see you handle it.

[besson3c]

Again, a silly response. The type one expects from a fanatic. Why should I give a damn about other WebDAV services when I'm using OSX, iDisk is integrated in the OS and I pay for .mac membership? Why am I not allowed to ask for an explanation for my poor service without a straight answer?

That's like having a really crappy phone line and experiencing modem disconnects and then yelling at your ISP saying "why can't the service YOU provide work better? I'm paying YOU.. even though you don't provide my phone service, because I'm paying YOU I expect to be able to stay connected to the internet for more than 5 minutes, damnit!"

Also, the explanation I offered (which were sarcastic and pointed and which I apologize for if they offended you) was returned with remarks about my mother and farm animals.

People must be just lining up to spend their time giving you answers!!

[cwasko]

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:


I'd like to see you handle it.

Actualy, the way you did just above this post would have been fine. But, instead, you felt the need to insult him first.

[JLL]

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:


Again, a silly response. The type one expects from a fanatic. Why should I give a damn about other WebDAV services when I'm using OSX, iDisk is integrated in the OS and I pay for .mac membership? Why am I not allowed to ask for an explanation for my poor service without a straight answer?

Instead of blaming Apple, you're were asked to compare iDisk with services using the same technology. Why is that silly?

It could be that WebDAV services are that slow, and that is certainly not Apple's fault!

You haven't even told us your upload speed.

[dfiler]

Originally posted by Millennium:
That one was not my doing. I don't know who deleted that one. It is possible, however, that it was moved to the Moderators forum, as I did, and a locked copy was not left behind. I can look for it, but I can't move it back, unfortunately. On further examination of the Moderators forum, it appears that only Administrators can move or copy something out of it, though any moderator can copy or move something in.

I agree now that when things are moved to the Moderators forum, a locked copy should be left behind as well. I apologize for my previous mistake.

I applaud the way you are handling this forum Millenium. Please don't lose any sleep or beat yourself up over this. I think the vast majority of MacNNers are satisfied with the job you and the other moderators are doing.

On the other hand, Kelly has remained true to form, seeking out conflict for the shear sake of conflict. We could publish a book with hundreds of testimonials about our resident troll. You'd think that after hundreds of these, he'd take a step back and wonder why everyone perceives him as deceitful and belligerent. It would make an excellent case study for abnormal behavior classes and would look great on my coffee table.

I second the motion for a permanent ban. Does El P have a static IP? If not, are there any other macnners from his ISP's IP pool?

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by besson3c:


That's like having a really crappy phone line and experiencing modem disconnects and then yelling at your ISP saying "why can't the service YOU provide work better? I'm paying YOU.. even though you don't provide my phone service, because I'm paying YOU I expect to be able to stay connected to the internet for more than 5 minutes, damnit!"

Huh? I have a top end Mac, great connection, great ISP. Who do I blame the problem on? Apple. If not then your mother and the elephant will have to take the blame again

[JLL]

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:
(I don't pigeon hole everyone like JLL and his 'none of us like you' nonsense).

I said most!! I don't see any of your "supporters" in here.

[besson3c]

I think a large part of the problem is actually the thumbnail icon previews. So it is an OSX problem. Browsing folders without images is fast, not bad at all.

Let's please be rational. I was working on a 'sites' folder. We use images on websites. For people using iDisk to manage their sites the Finder/OSX/iDisk/WebDAV is the worst combination possible. Who's fault is that? Apple's. Should users complain? Yes.

Since you have a theory, it must be a fact!

Try putting a finder window in column view, go to your view options and disable (show icon). Then, mount your iDisk and tell us what you find.

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by dfiler:


On the other hand, Kelly has remained true to form, seeking out conflict for the shear sake of conflict. We could publish a book with hundreds of testimonials about our resident troll.

How about some more lies to make you and your little mob of five to ten people feel comfy? And everytime I say something like 'my Mac is great' 'I love MIP' 'I luv Unsanity haxies' '10.2.3 is a great update' and so on those words just pass by without notice.

Tell me, if I go in a church and tell them God isn't a man on a stick and I demand an explanation from the Pope, am I mad?

You're not allowed to complain. Some of these people will tell you that you are free to abandon the Mac and use a Windoze machine if you want. And don't get angry if they say that. You're not allowed to express anger either.

[besson3c]

That's like having a really crappy phone line and experiencing modem disconnects and then yelling at your ISP saying "why can't the service YOU provide work better? I'm paying YOU.. even though you don't provide my phone service, because I'm paying YOU I expect to be able to stay connected to the internet for more than 5 minutes, damnit!"



Huh? I have a top end Mac, great connection, great ISP. Who do I blame the problem on? Apple. If not then your mother and the elephant will have to take the blame again

Reread my post.. I said it's *like* (i.e. a comparison) having a really crappy phone line. Do you see my point?

[cwasko]

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:


How about some more lies to make you and your little mob of five to ten people feel comfy? And everytime I say something like 'my Mac is great' 'I love MIP' 'I luv Unsanity haxies' '10.2.3 is a great update' and so on those words just pass by without notice.

Tell me, if I go in a church and tell them God isn't a man on a stick and I demand an explanation from the Pope, am I mad?

You're not allowed to complain. Some of these people will tell you that you are free to abandon the Mac and use a Windoze machine if you want. And don't get angry if they say that. You're not allowed to express anger either.

Its amazing that even after we have explained it to you, you still do not get it.

The reason people have a problem with you is how you handle feedback that does not agree with you. Do you understand this? A simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice.

[JLL]

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:
Tell me, if I go in a church and tell them God isn't a man on a stick

That would be Jesus - not God.

[besson3c]

While we're on the topic,

You might also want to SERIOUSLY consider changing your signature, if you haven't already, about the black man voting thing. That is, if you don't wish to be banned or whatever.

This is also a general lesson in life - it's not smart to say things that carry so much risk and carry little gain. Have you been reading the news lately?

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by besson3c:


Since you have a theory, it must be a fact!

Try putting a finder window in column view, go to your view options and disable (show icon). Then, mount your iDisk and tell us what you find.

Hmm, I do use column view. But hang on and lemme try the rest...

OK, I just connected to iDisk...iDisk is mounted...opened iDisk...it's got icon view because it never remembers my prefs....set new prefs...disabled icons....go to sites folder....loaded faster than with icons enabled....drag a jpeg to desktop.....spinning wheel....no copy dialogue box.....frozen Finder....spinning wheel still there...copy dialogue box appears...28k file is taking very long to copy....Error code -50


A simply copy over of a 28k file failed. The Finder was frozen during that time. Icons and previews were turned off.

Now let me say again. 800Mhz Powerbook, great ISP and connection, great internet performance in browsers, FTP apps, etc...

So whose fault is this abysmal performance? It's Apple's fault. They chose WebDAV, they chose to provide the service in that condition so I and everyone else who is having trouble managing the 'sites' folder has every right to complain without being called troll and being told to go and use Windoze.

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by besson3c:
While we're on the topic,

You might also want to SERIOUSLY consider changing your signature, if you haven't already, about the black man voting thing. That is, if you don't wish to be banned or whatever.

I changed it already about five posts ago and you know FOR A FACT what that sig meant. I already explained it like ten times. Or are you going to add a charge of racism just to get people like me off the forum so you can live in your world of problem free Macs?

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by cwasko:


Its amazing that even after we have explained it to you, you still do not get it.

Huh? 'We' explained this to you, 'We' explained that to you. 'We' are the masses. Say 'yes' or 'no' if you understand otherwise don't complain. No, 'WE' will not believe what you are saying. 'WE' will not take notice of the times you have been a good boy. 'WE' will ignore that post where you wrote down exactly what happened step by step when you disabled icon previews and still couldn't get decent iDisk performance.

WE!

[JLL]

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:
great ISP and connection

What is a great connection? Why don't you just tell us?