[bgotori]

Hey All

Was wondering if Apple or someone has made a build for Linux??? All my other computer have Linux on it. I've got a lot of iTunes downloaded songs on my Pismo and converting them is getting to be a Pain... If Apple would do this I bet it would be another shot at MicroSoft that will start more people converting from XP...


Thanks!!!

Brad

[Thinine]

I think some people have had success with the latest version of Wine and iTunes for Windows.

[yukon]

http://www.rhythmbox.org/

Somewhat buggy. It's not iTunes, but it's a rip off of it ;-D

It actually has some innovative features. Like automatic ratings (which unfortunatly can make a feedback loop from playing top rated songs more, rating those songs higher because they're played more). You do however lose the features of HFS that we take for granted in an MP3 player, move or rename the file and the player won't be able to find it.

I'd argue that the linux community (OSS community in general) distrusts Apple when it comes to media files. After all Apple sells it's own DRM files that are unplayable on other systems, and there remains no easy way to play Quicktime files on Linux (mplayer has trouble with them). Oh, and it would NEED to play OGG Vorbis files properly, many people converted and re-ripped audio in that format.

[juanvaldes]

I really like that idea of dynamic ratings. I have a little over 3K songs and there is no way I'd ever bother to rate them. So ratings to me is a 'useless' feature. But if the player could rate them for me...umm...maybe they could become more useful for smart playlists.

[HOMBRESINIESTRO]

Originally posted by Thinine:
I think some people have had success with the latest version of Wine and iTunes for Windows.

That's ture. Wine's commercial implementation Crossover Office (Codweavers), which includes better handling and support, supports iTunes (with tech support) since Crossover Office 4.0 (current: 4.1)

Here are some links:

Crossover Office iTunes page: http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibi...ame?app_id=134

Crossover Office Homepage: http://www.codeweavers.com/products/...e71bef2698eeb8

I've tried it already. It is really disturbing to see windows apps really integrated in you Gnome/KDE desktop.

[bgotori]

Hey HOMBRESINIESTRO

I'll look into that!!!


Thanks!!!

Brad

[bgotori]

Hey yukon

Yea, I'm looking for something that will play my iTunes download music without having to RIP it again.

Do you think OGG Vorbis will become the Linux Standard??? Will these file play in iTunes??? Sorry I'm Not an Audio Guy...


Thanks!!!

Brad

[yukon]

MP3 is standard, almost unbreakable though Microsoft is trying hard with it's WMA and Apple is pushing AAC. However, MP3 isn't as efficient as Ogg's Vorbis codec (.ogg files, I'll call it OGG from now on). With OGG you can get smaller file sizes for slighly higher quality audio or higher quality audio with the same filesize, with a much better tagging system (ID3 being hacky). MP3 was badly supported on Linux years ago, Red Hat didn't bundle the packages to play the files, mpg123 had trouble with certain tag formats and many encoders, XMMS had trouble with at least one encoder I know of, just a general hassle. I use iTunes now, so I can't say what kind of progress each has made, I'd bet mpg123 is still stuck where it was, Fedora comes with MP3 players AFAIR, and I dunno where XMMS has gone (I never liked WinAMP or it's clones....). RythymBox has had trouble with it's randomization feature and some audio corruption (crackling audio), both fixed AFAICT. iTunes can play OGG files with a quicktime plugin, though it takes an extra couple seconds for the file to play and iTunes can't edit the metadata.

If when you say "iTunes downloaded music" you mean the AAC files, I'm sorry, you're locked into Apple's DRM. It's not difficult to get out of, there's hacks and such to get around it (Realplayer Hymn, etc), or you could just reencode it, but iTunes using WINE/Cedega/Crossover would probably be best (I remember Crossover Office supporting iTunes at least....). Good for you for paying for your music, but you've put yourself at a disadvantage by using the proprietary online distribution. If you just mean MP3s, read on.

If you're going Linux only, and you physically own the CDs, re-rip as OGG, you'll save space and be supported well by the OSS software. If you want interoperability with hardware devices like the iPod or just don't want to have to buy a specific player for compatibility, stick with MP3. If you don't "own" your music collection, don't re-encode your music as OGG as you'll lose quality unnecessarily, it was helpful on Linux years ago but there shouldn't be any reason to now. If you're not an audio guy but can still notice the difference between the CD and the MP3/OGG and you have a lot of HD space, then check out FLAC, a lossless codec.

[Ganesha]

Originally posted by yukon:
there remains no easy way to play Quicktime files on Linux (mplayer has trouble with them). Oh, and it would NEED to play OGG Vorbis files properly, many people converted and re-ripped audio in that format.

QuickTime is a wrapper. People who have problems playing back QT files really have problems with the codec the video was encoded with. This can be easily observed by the fact QT on OS X cannot playback QT files which use codecs that you don't have installed.

[mitchell_pgh]

I wish Apple would release a Linux version of iTunes... I'm not sure Linux users would appreciate it, but it would be nice.

[bgotori]

Hey yukon

WOW, Thanks for ALL that INFO!!!

Yea, I like iTunes and download all my Music throught it for On-Line Music.

But with a Mixed Enviroment, and NOT RUNNING XP, Linux is the ONLY OUTLET... But Linux is Great, I'm runnning a Dual Enviroment on my Pismo with OS X 10.3.8 and YellowDog 3.0.1


Thanks Again!!!

Brad

[bgotori]

Hey mitchell_pgh

I think your wrong about that, every Linux person I know of would think that would be GREAT!!! A REAL MUSIC Player with Downloads, Can't think why anyone would NOT LIKE IT... Make the world easier for us Intel/AMD computer users, and would sell more Music for them. WIN, WIN!!!


Have a Great One!!!

Brad

[osxisfun]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I wish Apple would release a Linux version of iTunes... I'm not sure Linux users would appreciate it, but it would be nice.

Actually i would phrase it as:

I'm not sure Linux "whine whine everything must be freeeeeeee" users would pay for it..


ouch snark!


Let em dual boot is what i saysss!

[yukon]

I knew that Quicktime can be a wrapper like AVI, but since I don't use it much I figured Apple would have it's own codecs available. I'll have to ask the people I know who have been complaining about .mov support on linux, what codecs they're missing. I have a G4 that can play .mov files, but I'm always hearing "****ing quicktime" from other people ;-)

IMHO, Apple won't be releasing a Linux version of iTunes, nor Quicktime (for the time being). Having a Windows version is sufferable in order to try and get some marketshare, but Linux has very little marketshare. As Windows declines, Linux and the Mac profit, but I believe that in a few years Linux may have a majority (x86 is cheap) and the Mac will be facing that. So for now it's in Apple's best interest to get as many of the Windows switches to switch to the Mac instead of linux - having iTunes and Quicktime add to the featurelist. iTunes is free as it is, OSS users are used to free software they can donate to, but until Linux has high marketshare Apple will keep that on the Mac and Windows.

bgotori, congratulations on sucessfully using Linux. I'm afraid WINE can't help you run iTunes on your Pismo (for now, DarWINE someday maybe), but check out http://www.maconlinux.org , you can even run OS X on it now. It's speedy, doesn't require rebooting, and you can run iTunes in there. You have lots of ram, so it should be happy.

[CaptainHaddock]

If you prefer KDE applications, Juk is also on its way to being an iTunes clone. http://developer.kde.org/~wheeler/juk.html

The closest iTunes clone for Linux, and the most polished, is probably Lsongs. It includes many of iTunes' bells and whistles: CD importing, CD mixing, streaming radio,etc. Lsongs even uses the same XML library format as iTunes, so you could import your iTunes library if you wanted to.
http://www.linspire.com/lindows_prod...s=1#bottomhalf

Lsongs is open source, so you should be able to find some kind of installation package for your distro.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by osxisfun:
Actually i would phrase it as:

I'm not sure Linux "whine whine everything must be freeeeeeee" users would pay for it..

Seing that iTunes is already free for Mac OS X and Windows I fail to see why Linux users would have to pay for this hypothetical iTunes for Linux.

Edit: Well, wasn't this just a super 4000th post

[Big Mac]

Originally posted by yukon:
IMHO, Apple won't be releasing a Linux version of iTunes, nor Quicktime (for the time being). Having a Windows version is sufferable in order to try and get some marketshare, but Linux has very little marketshare. As Windows declines, Linux and the Mac profit, but I believe that in a few years Linux may have a majority (x86 is cheap) and the Mac will be facing that. So for now it's in Apple's best interest to get as many of the Windows switches to switch to the Mac instead of linux - having iTunes and Quicktime add to the featurelist. iTunes is free as it is, OSS users are used to free software they can donate to, but until Linux has high marketshare Apple will keep that on the Mac and Windows.

I have to strongly disagree with you there, yukon - I doubt Linux will ever eclipse the Mac's market share, let alone Windows. Linux partisans will claim it already has greater market share than the Mac, but I seriously doubt that. The thing that inhibits Linux's market share the most is the culture of Linux.

First of all, there are a myriad of Linux distributions out there, and while the differences between them may not be that significant, it all amounts to fragmentation of the market. Sundry window managers and various versions of applications floating around, all of this makes for a confusing mess. Linux will never achieve critical mass as a fragmented entity. Perhaps more importantly, the attitude of Linux people toward closed-source software makes it difficult for major firms to support Linux. The graphics card developers will not fully support Linux because they cannot afford to open their code bases to the competition. Linux has next to no support from major software companies like Adobe because the Linux crowd demands open source. If Apple were to introduce a Linux port of iTunes, Linux fanboys would denounce it for not being open source. Open source software is a great concept and ideal, but it only makes sense for some software. I am not dismissing the many triumphs of open source, but I am pointing out the reality of the overall situation.

Finally, Linux will continue to be difficult to use. Its UI will remain inconsistent, and the user will continue to have to compile apps (not to mention kernels) and do other chores with the command line. These sorts of procedures do not pose problems for Linux geeks, but average users will be bewildered. I may be stereotyping the Linux community a good amount, but I think these are valid points. Linux will continue to grow as more knowledgeable people get sick of M$, but the truth remains: Apple is the only viable competition to M$ in the consumer space.

[bgotori]

Hey yukon

Thanks for that info, but I'm not looking to run iTunes on my Pismo w/ Linux. I can Dual Boot my Pismo from OS X to Linux, and not look to transfer the songs and books to both partitions. I'm looking for iTunes for my Intel/AMD Linux machines at Home and the Labs. All the Lab machines are connected to Linux(Intel/AMD machines), so while waiting for them to finish I thought that having them play some Music would be nice for the kids, while there waiting for the analisys of the Data...

Right now all the Lab Kids have iPods and run mostly Mac's(PowerBooks), but when there working they can't have the iPods on until there done loading the machines(we work with Test Tubes full of Blood)and done with the Analisys because ahile ago we had a accident and a full tray(48)of samples got dropped(these are Terminal Cancer Paitent Samples...).So the New Rule is Nothing until your Done... But I know that Music is REALLY IMPORTANT to THEM. Yea...We have a Radio and CD System, but they all Don't Like the Same Music... SOOOOO...


Thanks Again!!!

Brad

[Big Mac]

Wait a second, you have "kids" working with cancer patient blood? And they do the lab analysis with Macs?

[bgotori]

Hey CaptainHaddock

I'll look into that one!!! But it would be nice for them to be able to buy music also, but its a Start!!!

I Run GNOME, but some of the BOOT up to KDE and some other DeskTops depending on the machine there on, but if it works I Bet they'll all switch to KDE.


Thanks!!!

Brad

[bgotori]

Hey Big Mac

I think the Problem with Linux is the RTFM attitude, the Older crowd of Linux users in my age and 10 yrs younger...

Thats what will always keep it down...


Have a Great One!!!

Brad

[bgotori]

Hey Big Mac

HAHAHA... Sorry about that... There Grad Students getting there PhD's But to me there KIDS...hehehe...

They do the Analisys on Intel/AMD Linux machines thanks to HP!!!


Have a Good One!!!

Brad

[yukon]

WINE/Crossover/Cedega is the best bet for running iTunes on your x86 linux machines, there's also vmware but that's a bit much. If you can get away with that without reencoding, then don't reencode for now. If you're not going to be using the iTMS anymore, then check out the "DRM Breaker" apps out there.

Big Mac (everyone else can ignore since it's off topic and essay sized)- Windows appears to be in decline (this is my opinion, I see it as obvious). The Mac can gain a lot from this, but it remains often more expensive, often as the hardware isn't everywhere. Linux runs on current PC hardware, if Windows loses out then the average person will install Linux for free. As to distributions "fragmenting the market", sure, there are many choices but they are often pretty clear cut - there are "desktop" distros (Mandrake (easiest), Fedora (enthusiast/easy), Linspire (windowsy), SuSE (businessy)), and the more difficult distros you can pick if you just love linux. I'd argue that having a dozen groups competing (in different areas) to give you the same product would make linux move forward faster, and things like the LSB (Linux Standards Base) help ensure that it's the same product. The versioning and choices in window managers are handled pretty well by urpmi/yum/apt/etc, and the choices for desktop environments aren't many and generally superficial (GNOME/KDE). Graphics card developers do not put much into 3D driver development on linux because of marketshare, not because of an "attitude", Linux isn't a gaming platform yet. These companies do not need to open their code, it's encouraged because it makes life easier for the developer and the user, but they don't need to...for example, the nVidia driver on linux 2.6 can make for quite the mess, it wouldn't happen with an OSS driver. Open source is not demanded, though it is desired, and who cares about the "fanboys". OSS makes sense for a lot of software, but where it is slow going, closed source software can flourish. Linux is gradually moving to ease of use, every new version of KDE/GNOME makes this obvious. The user is not required to compile applications nor kernels (again, package managers, something I wish OS X had for the GUI apps). Linux isn't difficult anymore, but it isn't easy yet, though it's improving rapidly...I use both Linux and Windows, and I can say with certainty Windows is much more difficult for me though I know it better, just got "The procedure entry point _resetstkoflw could not be located in the dynamic link library Msvcrt.dll." that prevents an application install about 10min ago and I can't fix it (WFP on an up-to-date system, dangerous). The "RTFM attitude" is prevalent when you ask experts or the programmers simple questions that they've already answered in documentation/FAQ, or when it's obvious you put no effort into it (a single google search will do usually)...if the user wants effortless "phone for an answer" support, that's what distributions like SuSE actually sell in that box. I'm afraid you are thinking of Linux circa 2000, as many of your arguments certainly work then, but then it's also easy to bash OS X DP4 and even the public beta. The times are changing, friends and family are beginning to phone me with questions like runlevel/X11, instead of pleas for antivirus and spyware removal.

Linux is moving forward, and has the ability to take over where Windows drops off without hardware change or investment. Microsoft has shown that proprietary standards slow adoption of other systems, Apple can use this to it's advantage while people evaluate the choice of Mac or Linux, by keeping iTunes' DRM and (for a lesser time) easy quicktime compatibility off of Linux.

[osxisfun]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Seing that iTunes is already free for Mac OS X and Windows I fail to see why Linux users would have to pay for this hypothetical iTunes for Linux.

Edit: Well, wasn't this just a super 4000th post

itunes store.


ex:

OMG i'm not buying since the songs are not in 256bit ogg vorbis blah blah support..


plus, linux users seem like they would like the creative players more since they have more gadgets like radio and voice in...

[CaptainHaddock]

"The Mac can gain a lot from this, but it remains often more expensive, often as the hardware isn't everywhere. Linux runs on current PC hardware, if Windows loses out then the average person will install Linux for free."

I think a lot of people will also do what I did: ditch Windows, experiment with Linux on all their PCs and buy a Mac for real work. The Mac is a very attractive platform once you've shed the Windows-only mentality. Even my hardcore compile-your-own-kernel Gentoo-using friend wants a Mac now that he's seen mine.

In the long run, Macs are good for Linux, and Linux is good for Macs. They both open people up to alternatives.

[- - e r i k - -]

I'm sorry to say that I don't see Windows being in decline. Your anecdotal evidence might seem to you to indicate otherwise but real numbers show that Windows-marketshare or even installed base isn't declining. There's been no real change the last five years DESPITE an alarming rise in spyware/viruses/security breaches that has caused Windows to suck far more NOW than it did when we had the normal Who's-Got-The-Best-UI-And-Experience platform debate in previous years.

Yet, people continue to purchase Windows-based PCs. Why? I don't know. They aren't nescessarily stupid, just uninformed I guess. "Every one else is buying them. Work is buying them. Schools are buying them. If everyone else is buying them, surely they all can't be stupid?"

[yukon]

Many people who went to Linux were simply tired of Windows problems, things like dll hell (what I mentioned with msvcrt.dll) and windows rot (the system gradually degrades, mainly Win9x, happens in NT when installing a lot of software I find). Linux didn't have those problems, but it requires a lot of effort....the people who switched for reasons like that, I find them eying my old G4.

As I said, Windows being in decline was an opinion of mine, something I see often. Numbers don't have to reflect that, though I haven't seen them and wouldn't know how they're collected. I do however see Microsoft trying their best to undo a decade of design decisions and often failing (SP2), delaying the next operating system at the same time as delaying the major features (avalon, winfs, etc) beyond the delayed release date. I see the bloated and ugly interfaces from the old linux distros becoming impressive and clean, things like WineX/Cedega supporting Half Life 2 just after the initial release. The media is reporting daily about Microsoft's security problems (the culture of fear has discovered Windows, uh oh) and normal people are slowly becoming more informed as to the existance of other options.

The Mac is going to gain a lot in these next years....OS X is amazing, we have the star Windows applications, the old Mac applications and it's good design, great NeXT development tools and technology, and we can run almost everything Linux x86 can run. With the Mac mini, marketshare could quadruple in the next few years. But since the PC is everywhere already, Linux has a better chance than OS X at being used by the majority. I'm not a fortune teller, so all that is IMO, but it seems to be what will happen.

[bgotori]

Hey yukon

Great InSight... you sound almost as OLD as ME...hahaha

I think Linux has a Great Future if they change there attitude some what.

On our HPLC machines(HP made)they had No Problem setting it up to Run Linux and dumping to an Old RS6000. It took all of 2hrs, most of that time I think was spend looking at the kids(Girl(Woman))hahaha.

I see a lot of the UnderGrads(UCLA)using Linux, and most of them aren't TechGeeks... A few using Mac's, but I think thats because of the price for a Mac LapTop. But with the New Pricing I think I'll see more Mac's.


Great Times Ahead!!!

Brad

[bgotori]

Hey All

Have to keep this going... Want Apple to know that Windows isn't the only one that Needs iTunes!!!


Great Times Ahead!!!

Brad

[Tyre MacAdmin]

A lot of companies are porting their works more and more to Linux. Macromedia, for example, I porting StudioMX to Linux and is in the works right now. I think iTunes for Linux makes a lot of sense. Turbo Linux, the number one distro in Japan and China already has a version of their distro called 10F that imports and plays music on an iPod:

http://www.turbolinux.com/products/10F/

Connect to your Apple iPod
* Turbolinux 10 F can communicate with your iPod, the most popular portable audio player on the market.
* Upload mp3 and m4a (non-protected AAC) files or delete songs from your iPod.
* Create and modify your playlists.
* Extract tag information (title, album, artist, etc...)


It's a great distro, fyi

[Millennium]

As others have mentioned, there is no build of iTunes for Linux, but there are several programs which mimic its interface. Many of these even have iPod support. However, these programs cannot access the iTunes Music Store, nor can they play songs downloaded from it. There are programs out there which break iTunes' DRM, which should allow those songs to play.

[bgotori]

Hey Tyler McAdams

WOW, I'll look into one!!!


Thanks!!!

Brad

[bgotori]

Hey Millennium

Yea... But I Really don't want to have to Break things... Rather have a REAL iTunes someday. But at least I can get something started for the kids at the Lab.

WOW, two of them just got the New PowerBooks BTO from the Campus Store... NICE MACHINES, got to play DOOM3 on one of them(with 128mb VRam 1gb Ram, 100gb Drive)... NICE!!!!!!


Great Times!!!

Brad

[discotronic]

Originally posted by bgotori:
Hey Millennium

Yea... But I Really don't want to have to Break things... Rather have a REAL iTunes someday. But at least I can get something started for the kids at the Lab.

WOW, two of them just got the New PowerBooks BTO from the Campus Store... NICE MACHINES, got to play DOOM3 on one of them(with 128mb VRam 1gb Ram, 100gb Drive)... NICE!!!!!!


Great Times!!!

Brad

Sounds like someone has been hitting up a torrent site somewhere

[bgotori]

Hey discotronic

Whats a ""torrent site""???


Thanks!!!

Brad

[discotronic]

Originally posted by bgotori:
Hey discotronic

Whats a ""torrent site""???


Thanks!!!

Brad

It's a place where a person can download software. Sometimes the software is legal and sometimes it's illegal. Doom 3 won't be officially released until March 13. Someone got a pre-release copy of the game somewhere.

I wasn't trying to flame you. Please don't take it that way

[bgotori]

Hey discotronic

I didn't take it as a Flame... Just More Info!!!hahaha Thank God for the Internet, Lots of Info!!!


Thanks!!!

Brad

[mitchell_pgh]

I've found that many Linux users hate everything closed... and iTunes would obviously be a closed source program.

My 2�

[bgotori]

Hey mitchell_pgh

I think the Old Linux people Think That Way... To Bad for them... The Newer Gen of Linux users I see on Campus(UCLA), think iTunes for Linux would be Great, and Don't mind Mixing and Matching Software(FreeWare, Corp. offerings)to do what they want to do. All most all of them Dual Boot with Win XP(for Games)and Linux for work(School Stuff). For them they need sonething that will do both(Gaming, Work stuff). They don't do anything On-Line with XP because of Virus stuff other than Gaming, and Linux for 90% of everything else.

Its funny even the Computer Geeks at Berkeley(UC)think that at change needs to be done to combine the two(FreeWare, Corp. offerings)... Now thats HardCore Computer People...


Great Times Ahead!!!

Brad

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by bgotori:
Hey mitchell_pgh

I think the Old Linux people Think That Way... To Bad for them... The Newer Gen of Linux users I see on Campus(UCLA), think iTunes for Linux would be Great, and Don't mind Mixing and Matching Software(FreeWare, Corp. offerings)to do what they want to do. All most all of them Dual Boot with Win XP(for Games)and Linux for work(School Stuff). For them they need sonething that will do both(Gaming, Work stuff). They don't do anything On-Line with XP because of Virus stuff other than Gaming, and Linux for 90% of everything else.

Its funny even the Computer Geeks at Berkeley(UC)think that at change needs to be done to combine the two(FreeWare, Corp. offerings)... Now thats HardCore Computer People...


Great Times Ahead!!!

Brad

I agree, I think iTMS for Linux is a great idea... and perhaps the times are changing where Linux users are more open to proprietary software. That being said, I'm not sure the numbers are there just yet. Is it worth Apple's time (time = money) at this point to port to the iTMS to Linux? That I'm not sure of.

Considering they have only sold 300,000,000 songs (which I consider to be very good) while going after 98% of the market (Windows +Mac) on the desktop... I'm not sure it's cost beneficial.

But I'm sure Apple has considered it.

[bgotori]

Hey mitchell_pgh

I think it would Help them in the Long Run. At Campus(UCLA)lots of kids are doing this(XP/Linux). When they get into the REAL World they'll want some thing they Don't want to Fool-With, Apple(Mac) since they were Running Linux in school, the Mac(OS X)is a logical choice. They be able to afford more when Working compared to School. $600-$900 for a LapTop(Intel/AMD)compared to $1400-$1800(PowerPC). That way they can Transfer there collected songs from one Plateform to the other.


Great Times Ahead!!!

Brad