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epluth · Mar 17, 2009, 10:57 PM

I have to come up with a decision on what will be the last of upgrades on my G4 400 gigabit tower. I've thrown so much cash into it and that I can't let it go just yet, and would like to get a few years more out of it. My problem is, I get choppy video performance, from Flash authoring, to choppy internet video such as youtube, etc.

Here is where I'm at currently. OSX 10.4.x, 400MB, 2g ram, 9000 pro w 64mb vram, stock 5400 rpm HD is rather empty other than CS3 design premium, superdrive, and other non mentionables like tv card, new power supply, etc.

I need better vid performance. And would like the machine a bit snappier, but I cannot simply buy a new machine, as we are expecting.

Anyhow, I am looking at three upgrades and am not sure of the +/- of them all.

Upgrade to a 7200 rpm drive? Upgrade to the 9800 pro vid card with 128 vram? Or do the 1.6G OWC processor. Or ALL!

Any feedback will be appreciated. Thank you.

hookem2oo7 · Mar 18, 2009, 12:10 AM

I'd max the RAM for sure. I had a Gigabit that i put a dual 1.8 Gigadesigns upgrade chip in as well as 1.5GB RAM and the 9800 pro. It was much more responsive, but it still couldn't keep up with the first gen 1.8ghz Core Duo macbook I had even though it had the 9800 pro and 3 times the RAM. Really, it's up to you, but based on my past experiences, I'd throw some RAM in it and maybe the video card and call it a day. The money you spend could easily net you a mac mini that would outperform even the upgraded g4.

reader50 · Mar 18, 2009, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by epluth

OSX 10.4.x, 400MB, 2g ram, 9000 pro w 64mb vram, stock 5400 rpm HD ...

What does the "400MB" refer to?

New Hard Drive
Positive: cheap upgrade, dramatic space increase, accelerates boot, app launch, file open/saves.
Negative: no impact on video playback.

Modern hard drives are way faster than the OEM drive. Your internal interface is limited to 128 GB drives or smaller, so it's unuseful to get anything bigger than a 160 unless you just want the speed of a newer (bigger) drive, and never mind the space. There are ways around the 128 GB size limit, either via software or hardware - read the Storage FAQ for the details. A newer HD will not accelerate your video performance.
$45 - 160 GB
$60 - 320 GB

New Video Card
Positive: dramatic improvement in games, speeds up OSX interface, will somewhat accelerate video playback.
Negative: mac card versions badly overpriced, will only somewhat accelerate video playback.

The 9000 is lame by today's standards. Besides the 9800, you could also go for an 8500 or 9600 - though you'd have to tape pins on the 9600 to make it work in your AGP 2x slot. On the nVidia side, there is the GeeForce 3 or 4 cards. There was some talk of flashing a GF 5200 to work, haven't heard anything more on that in awhile. The main glitch on this is price - Mac versions are hard to come by.
(not sure about current prices)

CPU Upgrade
Positive: will accelerate just about everything, including video playback.
Negative: the costliest upgrade.

No matter how things move along with the Intel transition, and the years go by, the PPC upgrade cards remain priced high. Apparently nothing will bring them down.
$250 - OWC 1.6 GHz 7447A (no L3 cache)
$260 - OWC 1.467-1.5 GHz 7455B with 2 MB L3 cache

The 1.5 GHz with L3 cache may well be faster in your 100 MHz-bus system under most circumstances. The 1.6 7447A uses a later G4 chip design with 2x the L2 cache (512KB vs 256KB), but is more likely to be bottlenecked by your system bus. Hopefully someone will chime in who has tried both configurations.

epluth · Mar 18, 2009, 08:59 AM

Thanks for the replies. 400mb meant 400mhz, (late night) But my Ram is already maxed at 2G.

I did not know of the HD size limitation, it was the price that swayed me to trying it. Very cheap. But thats a drag, 160 would work fine I guess. The video performance is really what I need though. (THANK YOU READER for the informative post)

I've never had the chance to use a mini, but the 64 mb video card and the 5400 rpm HD they come with really shy me away. (Thats what I already have, and video is terrible) However, if I look at the HD, Vid Card, and Processor, that would be very similar in price to a new mini.

Rather than reviving a dinosaur, do you really think a mini would be an upgrade to the $5-600 I'd be spending anyway on the three things I am looking at replacing?

I'm very grateful for the replies.

P · Mar 18, 2009, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by epluth

Rather than reviving a dinosaur, do you really think a mini would be an upgrade to the $5-600 I'd be spending anyway on the three things I am looking at replacing?

Not sure I understand the last sentence, but in essence:

A low-end mini would be an upgrade in every sense except HD performance, at least with at least 2 gigs of RAM.

Simon · Mar 18, 2009, 09:46 AM

I'll second P's statement.

If you're going to spend $600 on upgrading an old G4, you might as well get a $599 mini. You can upgrade to 4 GB memory yourself for $56. You can add a very fast HDD either internally for $140 or connect a cheaper external 3.5" drive through FW800. You'll be spending $200 more and getting a great performance upgrade plus a brand new Mac with a new warranty.

Eug · Mar 18, 2009, 10:06 AM

Yep. Buy a Mac mini.

P.S. I own a Cube upgraded to 1.7 GHz, 1.5 GB RAM, and a GeForce 6200. My MacBook Core 2 Duo 2.1 GHz is faster in every way. (My MacBook is basically an older Mac mini with a monitor built in.) Even without the hard drive upgrade, it will still feel noticeably faster than your current G4 setup.

If you want to save some cash, get a refurb mini.

Simon · Mar 18, 2009, 10:44 AM

There are currently no refurb Mac minis. And it's been quite a while since I last saw any.

OreoCookie · 02:09 PM

I'd get an Intel-based Mac mini or a used/refurb Intel-based iMac. They'll run circles around your setup. The Mac mini will be a lot faster in every respect, but harddrive speed (but not that you can use that advantage in any way in your current machine). Updating Methuselah will be like burning cash. You already own CS3 which runs natively on Intel Macs, so you won't have to rely on emulation.

sek929 · Mar 18, 2009, 12:36 PM

Your G4 served you well, and I doubt any amount of upgrades would give you an acceptable bump in video performance. You mention Flash performance which members here with Dual 2.5ghz G5s have bad results with. Best to leave PPC behind you.

Find a Core 2 Duo MIni, swap out the slow HDD, max the ram, and set face for grin.

epluth · Mar 18, 2009, 02:44 PM

Thanks guys. Its a sad day when you realize that you could have bought a small car for what amounts to a doorstop today. Apparently I didn't learn on my G3ibook SE either, both of which have been my bread and butter for almost a decade. (the ibook not so much

)

I guess I can't escape the fact that the mini will be the best option. Thankfully it has just gone through an upgrade of its own.

olePigeon · Mar 18, 2009, 03:35 PM

You could get an SAS/SATA card, and buy a 15,000 RPM SAS drive to use as your boot volume. That should give you a boost.

Edit: Late to the thread, nevermind.

mduell · Mar 18, 2009, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by reader50

New Video Card
Positive: dramatic improvement in games, speeds up OSX interface, will somewhat accelerate video playback.
Negative: mac card versions badly overpriced, will only somewhat accelerate video playback

Can you link to any documentation on this video playback acceleration for a G4?

reader50 · Mar 18, 2009, 07:50 PM

I can testify based on my own Sawtooth upgrades a few years back. The Rage 128 Pro wasn't cutting it. When I upgraded first to a Radeon 7000 PCI, then later a Radeon 8500 AGP, it was able to play back some video files that were marginal before. The improvement wasn't huge. I don't recall the exact files used for testing, probably QT trailers and a few game-trailer AVIs.

The improvement was not enough to cover HD files. In the present day (with a 1.2 GHz CPU upgrade + 8500) it still can't handle 720p trailers. It will handle 480p trailers with no other apps running - CPU runs 80-90+% even with the G4 upgrade, a dead giveaway that the video card alone wouldn't do the trick.

Crimson · Mar 19, 2009, 01:59 PM

I'd dare say pay a visit to www.themacelite.com for flashing information and a guide on suitable PC video cards. I myself flashed a Radeon 9800 Pro I got pretty damn cheap (35 euros with Zalman dual heatpipe cooler...) and am very satisfied. The video playback acceleration shows up more over as less skipped frames, no stuttering etc. Reader50 is right on his comment, plain video upgrade isn't enough... CPU upgrade is good companion, and faster HD is quite likely a must too.

DCJ001 · 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

There are currently no refurb Mac minis. And it's been quite a while since I last saw any.

There were some for $419:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/FB...OS-US-AFF-FEED

Simon · Mar 19, 2009, 05:02 PM

Yeah, but they were gone shortly after they appeared.

reader50 · Mar 19, 2009, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Crimson

I'd dare say pay a visit to www.themacelite.com for flashing information and a guide on suitable PC video cards.

Sounds like a useful link. Unfortunately, someone let the domain lapse. All I get is the usual "buy this domain - look at our ads - do referral searches".

epluth · 08:26 PM

I decided to buy the new mini, and would like to thank all that steered me in that direction. Without getting too silly here, I am just going to say, wow.

yoketee · Apr 2, 2009, 07:13 AM

there are a few options.
1. you can get a PCI eSATA card from sonnet. buy a 500GB or 1TB HDD with 32MB cache.
the new SATA HDD can also be your boot disk.
2. upgrade your CPU, there are plenty of options around. if you get a better dual processor CPU. you surely will get the performance of a G5.