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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Honda CR-V vs. Toyota Rav4

Honda CR-V vs. Toyota Rav4 (Page 2)
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BRussell
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Jul 10, 2008, 09:31 AM
 
Personally, I believe everything Uncle Doof says, and I don't need him to show any evidence.
     
Mastrap
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Jul 10, 2008, 09:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Doof View Post
Here ya go, why don't you watch it for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o63BOVlzhc

Either way, Mas, give it up. Your precious little eco crapboxes are a lie and you should have stuck with a Landy.
Read the link I posted. Top Gear told a whole pile of bullshit and you're, by the looks of it, are falling for it. Meanwhile nobody who knows the real story takes TG seriously anymore. The program has become little more than a platform for Jeremy's personal rants and an excuse for soccer mum blockheads to carry on driving their SUVs to deliver little Tobias to school and back. In Chelsea.
Prius vs. BMW M3: The Test

Now the actual test: The Prius drove ten laps as fast as possible on a race-track, and the BMW trailed behind. It is so meaningless as to be funny. Much worse than Prius vs. Jeep Patriot Diesel.

Driving the Prius with the pedal to the metal (probably around 100 mph, a speed at which 99.99% of Priuses will never go - the exception is Al Gore Jr. who got caught doing over 100 mph) is taking away almost everything that makes the car fuel efficient. At that speed, electric motors don't help, regenerative braking doesn't help, and the stop-start anti-idling feature is useless. Only the low drag coefficient and low rolling-resistance tires are of use, but that is more than offset by the small 1.5 liter gasoline engine that has to hit RPMs way above its efficiency sweet spot.

On the BMW side, the M3 was designed to be driven fast on the German autobahns and its engine certainly wasn't breaking a sweat trying to keep up with the Prius.

So What Does 'Prius vs. BMW M3' Tell Us?

Well, if most of your driving is going to be done on a closed circuit racing track with the pedal to the metal, a Prius probably won't save you that much gas. If that's not the case, you can forget about this useless, misleading Top Gear segment. It would be good entertainment if they had explained why it's a flawed comparison, but they played it straight, so thumbs down.
     
Uncle Doof
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Jul 10, 2008, 09:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
Read the link I posted.
Yeah, I just did. Biased crap from dirty urban commie cretins who don't realise that that's a pretty good emulation of typical rural A-road driving. It's probably more like 60-70 MPH.
     
dowNNshift
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Jul 10, 2008, 09:43 AM
 
Didn't the OP just want to limit the discussion to the Toyota RAV4 vs the Honda CR-V? It seems like this thread went waaaay off topic..........
     
Mastrap
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Jul 10, 2008, 10:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Doof View Post
Yeah, I just did. Biased crap from dirty urban commie cretins who don't realise that that's a pretty good emulation of typical rural A-road driving. It's probably more like 60-70 MPH.
Driving a car at top speed round a race track is a pretty good emulation of rural A-road driving? Right-o.
The Britain you live in and the one I lived in appear to be two very different places.
     
Uncle Doof
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Jul 10, 2008, 10:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
Driving a car at top speed round a race track is a pretty good emulation of rural A-road driving? Right-o.
The Britain you live in and the one I lived in appear to be two very different places.
Yes. You lived in urban London, I live in rural Staffordshire. Two very different places. I'm at 70 MPH+ most of the time.
     
nonhuman
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Jul 10, 2008, 10:24 AM
 
I'm with Doof on this one. My wife grew up in rural Illinois where her mother still lives (and we may live in the not-so-distant future). Rural as in it's a 30 minute drive to the grocery store at 80 MPH. When you're dealing with those sort of distances it takes a very patient person indeed to actually drive at the speeds where a Prius would do some good. Hell, even when I lived in San Francisco, most of my driving was on the highway and usually closer to 100 MPH than 65.
     
BigBadWolf  (op)
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Jul 15, 2008, 08:48 PM
 
So, I test drove the two cars today. I drove the Rav4 Limited V6 and the CR-V EX-L. While the Toyota may be bigger on the outside, the cockpit was very tight. I'm about 6'3" and my knees were nearly touching the steering wheel. I liked the acceleration of the Rav4 (0-60 in 6.2), I just preferred everything else about the Honda. So, I think I will be going with that one.
     
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Jul 16, 2008, 09:00 AM
 
My wife and I bought a CR-V when they were new in 2000. I'm 6' 2.5" and it's always been VERY roomy for me. We're now at about the 8 1/2 year mark with it and it's going strong AND still getting pretty good mileage. I've been in RAV4s, from about that same time to today, and I still prefer the CR-V; it's roomier, quieter, and I like the fit and finish better.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Andrew Stephens
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Jul 16, 2008, 09:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
Driving a car at top speed round a race track is a pretty good emulation of rural A-road driving? Right-o.
The Britain you live in and the one I lived in appear to be two very different places.
Prius, Diesel, Petrol, whatever. The actual fact remains that NO car should be considered environmentally friendly in any way. They are all just various degrees of bad. The best you can do is to keep your old on since building a new car is pretty violent to the environment as is disposing of one.

Everything else is just marketing by car companies trying to flog new cars to people.
     
Uncle Doof
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Jul 16, 2008, 10:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens View Post
The actual fact remains that NO car should be considered environmentally friendly in any way.
My trees beg to differ.

Only this morning did one of them stroll past and say "Thanks for the CO2, Doof. We need that shiz to breathe and these stupid greenies are trying to suffocate us. Here, have some O".
If you don't want to be eaten, stop acting like food
     
Andrew Stephens
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Jul 16, 2008, 10:29 AM
 
"bacon up that sausage boy"
     
zerostar
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Jul 16, 2008, 07:04 PM
 
We have a silver 2008 CR-V EX, out the door (tax, tags, title, dealer fees) we paid $23,885 which is the best price I have read. great car, wife has had it 4 months now and LOVES it still. Handles great the several times I have drove it. Very comfortable on long trips too. If you can get a good deal I would get the EX-L with Navi, she didn't opt for it as she likes the Garmin unit and wanted Sirius as well, so maybe ill upgrade her stereo later.

Anyway if you want specifics or "real-world" pics let me know!

p.s. We did extensive research, the Rav 4 was on the list for sure, ultimately having 3 previous Hondas and nothing but a bum wheel bearing in 10 years (and 85K on that one) drove the CR-V in as the winner
     
Paco500
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Jul 17, 2008, 04:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I'm 6' 2.5"
Seriously? I always had you pegged at 6' 2.75". I guess the camera DOES add 0.25".
     
ghporter
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Jul 17, 2008, 07:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
Seriously? I always had you pegged at 6' 2.75". I guess the camera DOES add 0.25".
No, that was just the shoes and a short photographer.

And I forgot which key gives me the 1/2 fraction character...but that extra half inch makes a difference when it comes to headroom in a car. It really does.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
quesera
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Jul 19, 2008, 10:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
The Prius looks like a Lamborghini that's really let itself go. Like you remember the Lamborghini from high school and the Prius shows up at the 20th reunion.
Wow. I'll never look at a Prius the same way again.
     
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Jul 19, 2008, 11:31 AM
 
My dad owned a CR-V for 5 or 6 months. Brand new, full option automatic. Sold it because it used way too much fuel (11l/100km petrol or more) and was slow as hell. It started to develop little noises and crackles in the interior as well. He got rid of it and bought a 3.0 diesel VW Phaeton. Brand new as well. Goes twice as fast and uses less fuel (around 9l/100km, diesel. Around 7 litres on the highway).

But than again... At American highway speeds it probably drinks a lot less in fuel. Most of our highway is done at 140-150km/h.

If you want frugal, get a BMW. Seriously. They are the best when it comes to fuel efficiency. Always been like that.

iMac 20" C2D 2.16 | Acer Aspire One | Flickr
     
BigBadWolf  (op)
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Jul 20, 2008, 02:49 AM
 
I pulled the trigger today and got the CR-V EX-L. So far the mileage is pretty good (I averaged 28 going from San Diego to LA @ ~75mph), far better than my previous v8. The acceleration is far better than I was expecting for a 4 banger. Also, using Costco's auto program I got a good deal ($450 over invoice). I like the back-up cam that comes with the sat nav too.






     
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Jul 20, 2008, 04:03 AM
 
I went to the Mazda dealer, wanting to get the CX-7. I test drove it, but didn't get the race car feel.

Ended up getting the Mazda 3 hatchback because I like how it handles and has better gas mileage than the CX-7. Love my Mazda 3 hatchback.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
Mastrap
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Jul 20, 2008, 07:33 AM
 
Back up cams are great, our CX-7 came with one too. Best thing about them is how they make other people nervous who see you backing up towards them without looking over your shoulder.
     
ghporter
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Jul 20, 2008, 07:50 AM
 
Lots of people are surprised at how quick Hondas are. For example, the kid in the "hot," loud Mustang next to me yesterday... But the CR-V's setup is quite quick, with a lot of power just about everywhere in the RPM band. Note that when you fill the vehicle with your very large in-laws and all their luggage, you WILL notice a drop in "quickness", but only when it's really loaded.

We looked at that particular model of CR-V last summer. But we decided to go a different route. We kept the 2000 CR-V (still running like a top, though the in-dash clock has just plain failed finally), and bought two new vehicles: my Civic EX, and my wife's S-2000. All good, and we get to surprise the "I think I have a muscle car" kids all the time.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
glideslope
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Jul 20, 2008, 08:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Lots of people are surprised at how quick Hondas are. For example, the kid in the "hot," loud Mustang next to me yesterday... But the CR-V's setup is quite quick, with a lot of power just about everywhere in the RPM band. Note that when you fill the vehicle with your very large in-laws and all their luggage, you WILL notice a drop in "quickness", but only when it's really loaded.

We looked at that particular model of CR-V last summer. But we decided to go a different route. We kept the 2000 CR-V (still running like a top, though the in-dash clock has just plain failed finally), and bought two new vehicles: my Civic EX, and my wife's S-2000. All good, and we get to surprise the "I think I have a muscle car" kids all the time.
...and how much do you love that Civic EX? I own an 07 EX AT running Mobil 1 5w-20.. Regularly average 30 in 50/50 Cty/Hwy and get 40-41 Hwy at 65mph with the cruise on.

Drove from Syracuse, NY to Buffalo last Mon to purchase just about the last 16g White iPhone in upstate, NY. 80 mph the entire way there. 37.1 mpg.

No wonder there are none on the lots up here.

To stay on topic the DW drives a 2.4L 2WD 06 RAV4 Base running Mobil 1 5w-20 with the 17" wheels and roof rack as the only options. Tires make a huge difference. She was getting around 21mpg 50/50 cty/hwy with the Geolanders. 25 hwy only.

Last month we put a set of Yokohama Avids on. now its 24mpg 50/50 and 28 hwy all the time.

Can't comment on the new CR-V.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.”
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glideslope
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Jul 20, 2008, 08:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
Back up cams are great, our CX-7 came with one too. Best thing about them is how they make other people nervous who see you backing up towards them without looking over your shoulder.
Man I wish I could have talked the DW into a CX-7. Nicer than the Honda or Toyota IMO by a wide margin, minus the gas penalty.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.”
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ghporter
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Jul 20, 2008, 10:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by glideslope View Post
...and how much do you love that Civic EX? I own an 07 EX AT running Mobil 1 5w-20.. Regularly average 30 in 50/50 Cty/Hwy and get 40-41 Hwy at 65mph with the cruise on.
I absolutely, positively LOVE my EX. And it came with all sorts of bells and whistles because it was a "porch car" at the dealership—Set out front to get attention. Atomic Blue Pearl, moonroof deflector, that spoiler-thingy with the third tail light, even leather seats...and since it was getting past its "sell by" date, I got a deal too!

With stock tires and factory oil, and running the A/C continuously, I get around 27-29 in town and around 34MPG at Texas highway speeds. They're different; I spent a few weeks doing a weekend commute to South Texas, and many of the highways and roads there are POSTED at 75... Most other highways are posted at 70, and God help you in a lot of places if you're not pushing 75 because of the 'rons trying to see how fast they can use up those petrochemicals... But I think it's not bad mileage considering that I need the A/C (highs in my South Texas visits were always over 100, and there's "stuff" in the air that changes between rain and dry...), and I'm not a terribly conservative driver.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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Jul 21, 2008, 12:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I absolutely, positively LOVE my EX. And it came with all sorts of bells and whistles because it was a "porch car" at the dealership—Set out front to get attention. Atomic Blue Pearl, moonroof deflector, that spoiler-thingy with the third tail light, even leather seats...and since it was getting past its "sell by" date, I got a deal too!

With stock tires and factory oil, and running the A/C continuously, I get around 27-29 in town and around 34MPG at Texas highway speeds. They're different; I spent a few weeks doing a weekend commute to South Texas, and many of the highways and roads there are POSTED at 75... Most other highways are posted at 70, and God help you in a lot of places if you're not pushing 75 because of the 'rons trying to see how fast they can use up those petrochemicals... But I think it's not bad mileage considering that I need the A/C (highs in my South Texas visits were always over 100, and there's "stuff" in the air that changes between rain and dry...), and I'm not a terribly conservative driver.
I was in your neck of the woods this weekend for a family trip. As with all of southern Texas, the AC is mandatory! You get about the same mileage I get with my MINI. This weekend, I got around 28mpg in town, and on I-10, I averaged 34 mpg, going around 90 mph most of the way back to Houston.

Funny thing is, I saw an '88 CRX on my way back. That was my first Honda. You don't see a lot of those anymore, so it brought a BIG feeling of nostalgia back as I passed it.
     
effgee
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Jul 21, 2008, 01:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Doof View Post
Yeah, I just did. Biased crap from dirty urban commie cretins who don't realise that that's a pretty good emulation of typical rural A-road driving. It's probably more like 60-70 MPH.
What?

Are you trying to tell people that a BMW M3 will get better gas mileage at that speed than a Prius because you watched TopGear? I watched that show, too - and am astounded that anyone could possibly be stupid enough to take that "test" and tell another person that it translates directly to regular road use of any kind.

Not even you can be that gullible.



And no, I don't own a Prius, or any other "eco-vehicle", for that matter. In fact I think the Prius is one of the most retarded (or clever, if you work for Toyota) vehicles ever conceived. At least the folks in Europe have plenty of alternatives to choose from that are 90% as environmentally conscious at half the cost.

As far as car-based SUVs are concerned, I never got the point of those over, let's say a station wagon - they don't work off-road like a "real" SUV, and they're slower and get worse gas mileage than a station wagon. Kinda weird, really.
     
ghporter
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Jul 21, 2008, 09:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by effgee View Post
As far as car-based SUVs are concerned, I never got the point of those over, let's say a station wagon - they don't work off-road like a "real" SUV, and they're slower and get worse gas mileage than a station wagon. Kinda weird, really.
Not all of 'em. the CR-V is a case in point. It's a tall station wagon with 4WD (if you get the right model), and while it's car-based, it's mileage is pretty good on the highway. We chose ours specifically because in 2000 Honda was not selling a station wagon anymore, and that's what we wanted. You CAN go off road a bit with a CR-V; we've avoided three-hour traffic jams due to accidents ahead by (er hem) "bridging the gap between the main lanes and the access road" more than once. This was in the Houston area, where those "gaps" are often quite wide and in most cases filled with water and ruts. Not the most fun thing I've done in a vehicle intended for road-only use, but it worked safely.

But you're right that most of 'em are a bad compromise. For example, the Ford Escape. The same size as a CR-V, yet it gets only about 2/3 the mileage at best, is much more top-heavy, and takes advantage of the "I'm an SUV so I follow truck safety rules" loophole and thus isn't nearly as safely built. Yuck.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
effgee
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Jul 21, 2008, 03:52 PM
 
First, and most importantly: I'm not trying to tell anyone what car they should buy/drive, I honestly couldn't care less. If someone needs a four-wheeler and the additional ground clearance, by all means - knock yourself out.

Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Not all of 'em. the CR-V is a case in point. It's a tall station wagon with 4WD (if you get the right model), and while it's car-based, it's mileage is pretty good on the highway. ...
Interesting, let's take a closer look at the CR-V and the station wagon version of the car it's based on:

Honda Accord Tourer 2.0i-VTEC (Link, in German)
Price: € 26,100.00 ($ 41,489.82)
Top Speed: 212 km/h (132 mph)
Acceleration (0-100km/h, 62 mph): 9.4 secs
Gas mileage: Mix: 7.3 l/100km, 32.2 mpg (city: 9.8 l/100km, 24 mpg; highway: 5.9 l/100km, 39.9 mpg)
CO2 Emissions: 173 g/km
Towing (w, w/o brakes): Max. 1600 kg / 600 kg (~ 3520 lbs / 1320 lbs)
Vehicle payload: 488 kg (~ 1075 lbs)
Trunk Volume: 406 liters (107.3 gal.)


Honda CR-V 2.0i-VTEC (Link, in German)
Price: € 26,950.00 ($ 42,841.02)
Top Speed: 190 km/h (118 mph)
Acceleration (0-100km/h, 62 mph): 10.2 secs
Gas mileage: Mix: 8.1 l/100km, 29.0 mpg (city: 10.4 l/100km/22.6 mpg; highway: 6.7 l/100km, 35.1 mpg)
CO2 Emissions: 192 g/km
Towing (w, w/o brakes): Max. 1500 kg / 500 kg (~ 3300 lbs / 1100 lbs)
Vehicle payload: 481 kg (~ 1060 lbs)
Trunk Volume: 524 liters (138.4 gal.)


As evident from the specs above, the station wagon bests the SUV/cross-over that's based on it in all but one category (trunk volume). And yes, I know Honda doesn't sell the Accord wagon in the US - nonetheless, it's always funny to see how car companies have pulled the wool over their customer's eyes. Of course, the CR-V's gas mileage is better than the Pilot's, for example, but it's still quite some ways from "good".

Here in the US, car companies sell those cross-over utes as "economical" when they know damn well that it is nothing but a sham.
     
BRussell
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Jul 21, 2008, 04:05 PM
 
You're probably right effgee, but there are a lot more small SUVs out there to choose from than wagons, at least here in the US. Especially now that SUVs are becoming a bit less popular here.
     
effgee
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Jul 21, 2008, 04:36 PM
 
^ Oh, I know - I recently began looking at new cars (we'll need a second one soon), and aside from the Krauts and the odd "exotic" there's nothing in the wagon segment. Not even the Japanese companies, all of whom sell wagons in Europe. And even if you manage to find a wagon, and compared to other markets, the selection of available engines is usually pathetic.

Another US car market oddness ... apart from the Mini, the VW GTI and the Volvo C30, there's nothing available in the compact car segment that could reasonably be considered a "premium" vehicle. Nothing but cheap and plasticky poo-boxes.

In Germany, my Mom's got a VW Polo (one size down from the Golf) with a 1.9l, 130hp diesel engine that gets 45 miles to the gallon, goes like stink (for a small car), is built like a tank, and has all the doo-dads one could possibly want (leather interior, power sunroof/windows, sat nav, remote locks, cd changer/iPod hookup, cruise control, air conditioning, etc., etc.)

Why can't I get something like that here?
     
ghporter
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Jul 21, 2008, 05:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by effgee View Post
First, and most importantly: I'm not trying to tell anyone what car they should buy/drive, I honestly couldn't care less. If someone needs a four-wheeler and the additional ground clearance, by all means - knock yourself out.



Interesting, let's take a closer look at the CR-V and the station wagon version of the car it's based on:

Honda Accord Tourer 2.0i-VTEC (Link, in German)
Price: € 26,100.00 ($ 41,489.82)
Top Speed: 212 km/h (132 mph)
Acceleration (0-100km/h, 62 mph): 9.4 secs
Gas mileage: Mix: 7.3 l/100km, 32.2 mpg (city: 9.8 l/100km, 24 mpg; highway: 5.9 l/100km, 39.9 mpg)
CO2 Emissions: 173 g/km
Towing (w, w/o brakes): Max. 1600 kg / 600 kg (~ 3520 lbs / 1320 lbs)
Vehicle payload: 488 kg (~ 1075 lbs)
Trunk Volume: 406 liters (107.3 gal.)


Honda CR-V 2.0i-VTEC (Link, in German)
Price: € 26,950.00 ($ 42,841.02)
Top Speed: 190 km/h (118 mph)
Acceleration (0-100km/h, 62 mph): 10.2 secs
Gas mileage: Mix: 8.1 l/100km, 29.0 mpg (city: 10.4 l/100km/22.6 mpg; highway: 6.7 l/100km, 35.1 mpg)
CO2 Emissions: 192 g/km
Towing (w, w/o brakes): Max. 1500 kg / 500 kg (~ 3300 lbs / 1100 lbs)
Vehicle payload: 481 kg (~ 1060 lbs)
Trunk Volume: 524 liters (138.4 gal.)


As evident from the specs above, the station wagon bests the SUV/cross-over that's based on it in all but one category (trunk volume). And yes, I know Honda doesn't sell the Accord wagon in the US - nonetheless, it's always funny to see how car companies have pulled the wool over their customer's eyes. Of course, the CR-V's gas mileage is better than the Pilot's, for example, but it's still quite some ways from "good".

Here in the US, car companies sell those cross-over utes as "economical" when they know damn well that it is nothing but a sham.
They sell what people want to buy. Here in the States, people stopped buying wagons quite a while back, so Honda dropped both the Civic and Accord wagons. And if I could have, I may have bought the Accord wagon, but I still don't think that I could have crossed the rutted, water-filled spaces between I-10 and the access road in any Accord. I don't see it as the scam you paint; I see it as a different vehicle that has similarities to another, with different strengths and weaknesses. Of course the CR-V, a taller, boxy vehicle, won't get the mileage of a more streamlined Accord. That's pretty obvious, isn't it?

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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Jul 21, 2008, 09:47 PM
 
I think the point that effgee is making is well put. Apart from the VW Passat, BMW 3 series and a lone Volvo we could not find anything wagon-like here in Canada. Both the BMW and the Volvo were too small for me (I'm 6'7") and the VW cost a fortune, so In the end we bought the Mazda CX-7. It comes with a turbocharged 4 cylinder engine that delivers ok (not great) gas mileage if driven with a light foot.

Ideally I'd drive a turbodiesel wagon, but they're difficult/impossible to get so far.
     
ctt1wbw
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Suffolk, VA
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Jul 21, 2008, 09:51 PM
 
The Dodge Magnum is made in Brampton. I used to have one and I am sure you'd fit in it quite nicely. It's huge on the inside. Granted, it looks like a wagon, but it does not perform like one.
     
BRussell
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Rockies
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Jul 21, 2008, 10:19 PM
 
The Subaru Outback, which I guess qualifies as a wagon, seems to be extremely popular out here.
     
BRussell
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Jul 23, 2008, 12:10 PM
 
Which one should I get - the large, the medium, or the compact SUV?

( Last edited by BRussell; Jul 23, 2008 at 01:58 PM. )
     
Uncle Doof
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Jul 23, 2008, 01:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by effgee View Post
What?

Are you trying to tell people that a BMW M3 will get better gas mileage at that speed than a Prius because you watched TopGear? I watched that show, too - and am astounded that anyone could possibly be stupid enough to take that "test" and tell another person that it translates directly to regular road use of any kind.

Not even you can be that gullible.
Dude, I can't help it if you drive like a pansy.
If you don't want to be eaten, stop acting like food
     
 
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