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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Why is Apple torturing me?

Why is Apple torturing me?
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Helmling
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Apr 13, 2010, 11:13 AM
 
Okay, I have been waiting and waiting for an update to the Air and now, this morning, they update all the Pros but not the Air!

Seriously, what is going on? I know some of you folks follow this stuff closely. I don't know what's the advantage of these i5, i7 or whatever chips, but is that the problem? Will those chips not pair with the Air? Are they just in short supply so Apple's waiting or what?
     
The Final Dakar
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Apr 13, 2010, 11:16 AM
 
The MBA is the AppleTV of their portable line.
     
Simon
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Apr 13, 2010, 12:05 PM
 
It's as if they developed the MBA merely as a test bench for unibody construction. Once they proved it works they moved unibody to the MBP and forgot about the MBA.
     
mduell
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Apr 13, 2010, 09:12 PM
 
There are low power and ultra low power i3/i5/i7 chips available in quantity. But Apple isn't doing Core i[357] for any of their 13" platforms yet.
     
Love Calm Quiet
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Apr 13, 2010, 10:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Helmling View Post
Okay, I have been waiting and waiting for an update to the Air ...
Yeah. My pain, too.

Do we dare hope that (long-in-tooth as current Airs are) that when it comes it'll be a real whiz-bang?

The 2MB is a deal-breaker for me at this point.

Maybe they'll make it up to us with a better-grade SSD? (hope springs eternal)

And of course more pixels. Got Stevie on my prayer list.
TOMBSTONE: "He's trashed his last preferences"
     
lpkmckenna
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Apr 13, 2010, 11:10 PM
 
The Air, the white MacBook, and the Mac mini will all get the nVidia 320m. Apple asked for a custom IGP from nVidia, so you know you'll use it everywhere. Won't be long.
     
Simon
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Apr 14, 2010, 02:47 AM
 
It makes sense to use 320M too. Arrandale's IGP is anemic. We all knew that right from the start. And consequently Apple has chosen to use it only where they can add a dedicated GPU. On the 13" they chose the by now inexpensive C2D instead of Core i3 but then pair it with much better graphics circuitry. I can see the logic behind that.

The MB is a no-brainer. C2D+320M. Inexpensive and great battery life.

The MBA on the other hand is more complicated. In terms of raw performance and cost/performance ratio the low-power Core i7-6x0UM series would be a much better choice than the C2D SL series. But Core i7 means Arrandale IGP. And the MBA is definitely not going to see a dedicated GPU added in. So here's the $1000 question: what can Apple do? One option: wait.
     
Love Calm Quiet
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Apr 14, 2010, 09:26 AM
 
I'm not sure which is the "low-power Core i7-6x0UM series".

Is that something forthcoming - that you're suggesting they're waiting for?
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Simon
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Apr 14, 2010, 12:46 PM
 
Nope. It's already here. Intel is selling them right now.

Core i7-640UM: 1.20 GHz (2.26 GHz with TurboBoost), 4 MB cache, 18W, $305
Core i7-620UM: 1.06 GHz (2.13 GHz with TurboBoost), 4 MB cache, 18W, $278
Core i5-520UM, 1.06 GHz (1.86 GHz with TurboBoost), 3 MB cache, 18W, $241

And in two months we'll also get
Core i7-660UM: 1.33 GHz (2.40 GHz with TurboBoost), 4 MB cache, 18W
     
mduell
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Apr 14, 2010, 01:50 PM
 
If they do upgrade to Core i7 instead of sticking with C2D for the Air, I can see Apple going with the ultra low power (UM) chips instead of the low power (LM) chips given their focus on battery life lately.

The top 18W i7-UM chip (Core i7-640UM) base clock is 1.2Ghz with turbo to 1.86Ghz with two cores and 2.26Ghz with one.
The top 25W i7-LM chip (Core i7-640LM) base clock is 2.13Ghz with turbo to 2.66Ghz with two cores and 2.93Ghz with one.
Pricing is about the same, within 10%.

But given the 13" MBP I think it's more likely Apple will stick with C2D in the Air given the GPU situation.
     
Helmling  (op)
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Apr 14, 2010, 02:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
If they do upgrade to Core i7 instead of sticking with C2D for the Air, I can see Apple going with the ultra low power (UM) chips instead of the low power (LM) chips given their focus on battery life lately.

The top 18W i7-UM chip (Core i7-640UM) base clock is 1.2Ghz with turbo to 1.86Ghz with two cores and 2.26Ghz with one.
The top 25W i7-LM chip (Core i7-640LM) base clock is 2.13Ghz with turbo to 2.66Ghz with two cores and 2.93Ghz with one.
Pricing is about the same, within 10%.

But given the 13" MBP I think it's more likely Apple will stick with C2D in the Air given the GPU situation.
Okay, well you've got a real handle on this--what's your best guess? How long until we get a new Air and what will it look like?
     
Simon
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Apr 14, 2010, 04:54 PM
 
25W TDP is higher than Apple has ever done before on the MBA. If we go Core, expect UM not LM.
( Last edited by Simon; Apr 14, 2010 at 05:02 PM. )
     
Simon
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Apr 14, 2010, 05:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Helmling View Post
OHow long until we get a new Air and what will it look like?
Nobody knows for sure. And your guess is as good as anybody else's.
     
Helmling  (op)
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Apr 14, 2010, 05:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Nobody knows for sure. And your guess is as good as anybody else's.
No, my guess is clearly not as good as Mduel's. Hence, I asked for his guess.
     
mduell
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Apr 14, 2010, 07:43 PM
 
If Apple continues their previous pattern of really pushing CPU, we'll see LM. If they stick with the new (as of... yesterday) push for battery life and GPU over CPU, we'll see UM.

Originally Posted by Simon View Post
25W TDP is higher than Apple has ever done before on the MBA. If we go Core, expect UM not LM.
I agree with the prediction but it's disingenuous to just compare CPU TDP when so much hardware has moved from the chipset to the CPU.
( Last edited by mduell; Apr 14, 2010 at 08:02 PM. )
     
Simon
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Apr 15, 2010, 02:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Helmling View Post
No, my guess is clearly not as good as Mduel's. Hence, I asked for his guess.
It actually is. We all have the same facts. The current MBA is 10 months old. All other portable Macs have been recently updated. Intel CPUs are available regardless if Apple decides to stick with Penryn or to go Arrandale.

That's what everybody here knows. Now you can guess. And it won't be a bit less valid than anybody else's guess. Bottom line, it'll happen when Steve makes it happen. And right now nobody outside knows for sure when that will be.
     
Simon
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Apr 15, 2010, 02:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
I agree with the prediction but it's disingenuous to just compare CPU TDP when so much hardware has moved from the chipset to the CPU.
That would indeed be disingenuous now, wouldn't it. Fortunately we're smarter than that so we're of course comparing CPU+chipset TDP.

In the current form factor it's either SL C2D or UM Arrandale. Anything else would most likely require a redesign (which is why we never saw SP C2D in the MBA).

Plus it's not necessary. With Westmere cores and TB the available UM Arrandales already easily beat the SL Penryn used in MBAs today. Especially when you take into account that the current MBA frequently throttles or even shuts off one core when under load.
     
Helmling  (op)
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Apr 15, 2010, 09:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
It actually is. We all have the same facts. The current MBA is 10 months old. All other portable Macs have been recently updated. Intel CPUs are available regardless if Apple decides to stick with Penryn or to go Arrandale.

That's what everybody here knows. Now you can guess. And it won't be a bit less valid than anybody else's guess. Bottom line, it'll happen when Steve makes it happen. And right now nobody outside knows for sure when that will be.
No, buddy, the difference is that I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Penryn...Arrandale...I haven't the foggiest what the difference is, so yeah, my guess would be pointless, wouldn't it? So, I could go spend a whole bunch of time reading up on all of Intel's chip codenames and power ranges, or I could just ask a simple flipping question to see what someone more knowledgeable would guess.

And then, apparently, you could go and make a big deal about it by invoking the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
     
Simon
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Apr 15, 2010, 10:38 AM
 
Well anyway, you have it right up there: CPUs are ready and we're all just waiting for Steve to give his thumbs up. Could be next week, could be never (if indeed the iPad is the new MBA).
     
Helmling  (op)
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Apr 15, 2010, 05:06 PM
 
You know...I don't think I need one at all. It's only going to save me two pounds and cost me some screen real estate.

(God, if only I could really make myself believe that and save two thousand bucks. I'm such a geek that I want that super skinny s.o.b. and I want it now!)
     
Simon
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Apr 16, 2010, 02:20 AM
 
I hear you loud and clear buddy.

I kind of like the MBA. I don't always need my 15" MBP's raw power when on the road. Sometimes I'd be happier with a lighter and sleeker device. And fortunately the MBA makes no compromise on screen quality or KB like netbooks usually do. Plus its build quality is awesome compared to all the cheap PC junk you find in the small form-factor segment.

I never liked the bezel though. I would have always wanted the MBA to be smaller, not just thinner. But anyway, the real deal breaker for me is the single USB port. When I'm at a desk I want to plug into Ethernet. There goes my one USB port. So no more memory sticks, no more syncing my iPhone, no more mouse, etc. Had Apple added a second USB port (or an Ethernet port) I would have probably bought one as a mobile companion device. Kind of like what many are touting the iPad as.
( Last edited by Simon; Apr 16, 2010 at 02:28 AM. )
     
Jasoco
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Apr 18, 2010, 12:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
It's as if they developed the MBA merely as a test bench for unibody construction. Once they proved it works they moved unibody to the MBP and forgot about the MBA.
This. They'll probably use the stuff they learned from the Air to make the Pro's better. Eventually phase the Air out when the Pro's have absorbed enough of the Air's power... er features.
     
   
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