[nredman]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Musi....ap/index.html

i know there are people here who listen to hip hop, i'm not much into D12 but this is still a bummer. hopefully they find out who did it.

[Dark Helmet]

I'd hate to think of the events that lead up to the idiocy.

[abe]

http://www.lyricsstyle.com/b/beenieman/gangstalife.html

You'd hate to think of the events that lead up to the idiocy?

There's a whole generation of people who think about these events every day. They LIVE it and they LOVE it. They idolize the playas and the whole GANGSTA LIFE.

Too bad he wasn't D12 BULLET Proof!

His death just adds to the allure for some.

[davesimondotcom]

Not to make jokes because there are people who are grieving his loss, but...

If he follows most dead rappers, he'll have at least 3 more records that come out.

And maybe he can tell us who killed Biggy and Pac on one of them.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by abe

http://www.lyricsstyle.com/b/beenieman/gangstalife.html

You'd hate to think of the events that lead up to the idiocy?

There's a whole generation of people who think about these events every day. They LIVE it and they LOVE it. They idolize the playas and the whole GANGSTA LIFE.

Well I was thinking more about the 5 minutes before he got shot which probably involved some big shot attitude "look at me, I am friends with M&M and I gots money bitch".

[meelk]

No loss.

[tikki]

D12's first album was great. Their second one not so much.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by meelk

No loss.

It is for his wife and three children and friends.

The place he was shot at was also the place he started his career at, the CCC Club.

I put my soul through the ink
Bless a path with thoughts at my thoughts
Before I grow extinct
My back-bone disowned by zone
Why roam? called home
But now on I'm all alone
Just Proof, no shine, no friends, just fans
No wonder my hands, tight where the Internet ends
I take back most of the flack
The stress smokes, press me close to the crack
Like my pops, the ghost of my past
Dime and mud, JD and stucky
Lately I'm lucky, I don't hate me to touch me
Maybe I'm ugly inside, but smiling to make it
I love you dawg, and that's how ever you take it
The fame is a illusion, I'm still loosing
In this game, with the rules and..
I feel clueless, the streets with the hills blue less
Cops knocking at the door, got me looking real foolish
But I still do this, like I love it, even though I thug it
Keep flossing lights in public, the subject y'all don't know
Stars won't grow, who would dream that scars would show?
Minus the MTV videos with slim
"Up In Smoke" D-12, and many shows with Em
It's still me dawg, no change for change
It's strange, when it pours it rains
I take it back..


RIP

[Tomchu]

I have to wonder ...

Just when are these baboons going to stop shooting each other up? That's a real manly and civilized way of solving a disagreement, isn't it?

[PacHead]

Real tough guys here. If you act like you're looking for trouble, then don't be surprised if you find it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/urban/we...r/d12_1024.jpg

[Mooga2]

Originally Posted by meelk

No loss.

Can you even justify your comment?

[Cipher13]

Yeah, I'll bet this was the result of him talking himself up like the "gangsta" he so wants to be.

Good riddance. He got what he wanted.

[sabrejim]

Why is there so much hate for this guy on here?

[Kevin]

People reap what they sow. This is true But I would never celibrate such a thing

[Super Mario]

Can't wait for the other 11 to get it.

Bring back the real black music as performed by real black artists. Bamboozled. That movie had a strong point.

[the_glassman]

Originally Posted by kaze0

Why is there so much hate for this guy on here?

Ignorance

[Dakar]

Someone acting gangsta is not a reason to be glad he's dead.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

Not to make jokes because there are people who are grieving his loss, but...

If he follows most dead rappers, he'll have at least 3 more records that come out.

Record companies love when them kill themselves
It boost up the record sales

[scaught]

none of you know anything about him his music or his lifestyle. you're so quick to judge.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by scaught

none of you know anything about him his music or his lifestyle. you're so quick to judge.

That's not true. We do know about his music personally I think it sucks but I don't think he deserves to die for it.

His song also pushed the gangsta lifestyle.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Someone acting gangsta is not a reason to be glad he's dead.

Gangsta life epitomizes and perpetuates a negative aspect of American life and the fact that so many (primarily) young people are willing and able to embrace the thug life weakens our moral fabric by just that same degree.

It is not a good thing. In my opinion one reason it is tolerated is because of the relatively small numbers of adherents to it most were minority. This is not to say, necessarily, that the record companies help promote an evil on the minority community per se, but the values of the gangsta life are unhealthy and foul and I'm reminded of the negotiation between Don Vito Corleone and Sollozo "The Turk."

Sollozo asks Corleone's help in getting started in the drug trade but is refused.

DON CORLEONE
I'll give you my reasons. I have
many, many friends in Politics.
But they wouldn't be so friendly if
my business was narcotics instead
of gambling. They think gambling
is something like liquor, a harmless
vice...and they think narcotics is
dirty business.

Though it has caught on and has proven to be wildly popular, it's a dirty aspect of the music business that was only tolerated because it affected the minority communities but now it is embraced by the entertainment industry because it is so profitable. The record execs look for every way possible to dress it up, ignore it, hide it and glamorize it, but the fact remains the only reason it exists here today is because of it's profit potential.

It's hard to turn down all that money.

Yes, there is some skill and art to creating the music. But it is music in celebration of what? Thug and Gangsta life is the lowest representation of humanity that can possibly be 'celebrated' rather than being universally and unequivocally rejected or condemned.

The fact that Proof may have been a good guy with redeeming qualities only underscores the bankrupted values of the world in which he lived. A world that took him as it's latest in a long line of human sacrifices. The end of that line not soon to be seen.

This needs to be understood.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by abe

They epitomize and perpetuate a negative aspect of American life and the fact that so many (primarily) young people are willing and able to embrace the thug life weakens our moral fabric by just that same degree.

It is not a good thing. In my opinion it is only tolerated because of the relatively small numbers of adherents to it most were minority. This is not to say, necessarily, that the record companies help promote an evil on the minority community per se, but the values of the gangsta life are unhealthy and foul and I'm reminded of the negotiation between Don Vito Corleone and Sollozo "The Turk."

Sollozo asks Corleone's help in getting started in the drug trade but is refused.



Though it has caught on and has proven to be wildly popular, it's a dirty aspect of the music business that is only tolerated because it is profitable.

This needs to be understood.

Hate the sin, not the sinner.

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by Cipher13

Yeah, I'll bet this was the result of him talking himself up like the "gangsta" he so wants to be.

Good riddance. He got what he wanted.

Cipher on the scene!

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Hate the sin, not the sinner.

That's a bit of a paradox

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

That's a bit of a paradox

So is God.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Hate the sin, not the sinner.

When you or something you value is being attacked from many sides, seemingly all at once, I understand it's difficult to sort out those who are attacking from those who are stating truths that may hurt.

May God save his soul.

Violence would not cease with an end to Hip Hop, Rap or any of it's variants. So, I won't go so far as to say that the way to stop killings like this would be to outlaw the genre of music or censor the lyrics (as harmful as they may be).

I only say that it is a violent business and in a way a parallel can be found to something we can relate to here at MacNN.

Many of you know that posting in the P/L is not for the faint of heart. And that's why many of you wisely stay away.

In the music world the Rap & Hip Hop genre is like the P/L. There are different rules in effect there and all who venture inside do so with their eyes wide open.

Proof may have been a good guy. I don't know. But for those (like myself) outside of that world who reject their thug value system it's hard to separate the good guys from the bad guys when their celebrity depends on the same audience in the same world, with a similar look and sound.

And for all of Proof's goodness or BECAUSE of his goodness or in spite of it, he was still gunned down in a place he enjoyed, presumably doing what he enjoyed, presumably with those he enjoyed...except for that one exception. That place, those activities and that crowd are presumably the same as the Gangsta crowd.

He took his chances.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

That's a bit of a paradox

If it's still a paradox to you, it is of your own fault

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Hate the sin, not the sinner.

Sin is to sinner what gun is to gunner.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by abe

When you or something you value is being attacked from many sides, seemingly all at once, I understand it's difficult to sort out those who are attacking from those who are stating truths that may hurt.

May God save his soul.

Violence would not cease with an end to Hip Hop, Rap or any of it's variants. So, I won't go so far as to say that the way to stop killings like this would be to outlaw the genre of music or censor the lyrics (as harmful as they may be).

I only say that it is a violent business and in a way a parallel can be found to something we can relate to here at MacNN.

Many of you know that posting in the P/L is not for the faint of heart. And that's why many of you wisely stay away.

In the music world the Rap & Hip Hop genre is like the P/L. There are different rules in effect there and all who venture inside do so with their eyes wide open.

Proof may have been a good guy. I don't know. But for those (like myself) outside of that world who reject their thug value system it's hard to separate the good guys from the bad guys when their celebrity depends on the same audience in the same world, with a similar look and sound.

And for all of Proof's goodness or BECAUSE of his goodness or in spite of it, he was still gunned down in a place he enjoyed, presumably doing what he enjoyed, presumably with those he enjoyed...except for that one exception. That place, those activities and that crowd are presumably the same as the Gangsta crowd.

He took his chances.

I'm a gangsta?

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Super Mario

Sin is to sinner what gun is to gunner.

Cool looking?

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dakar

I'm a gangsta?

I'll blame myself for not being explicit.

Originally Posted by abe

They epitomize and perpetuate a negative aspect of American life and the fact that so many (primarily) young people are willing and able to embrace the thug life weakens our moral fabric by just that same degree.

It is not a good thing. In my opinion it is only tolerated because of the relatively small numbers of adherents to it most were minority. This is not to say, necessarily, that the record companies help promote an evil on the minority community per se, but the values of the gangsta life are unhealthy and foul and I'm reminded of the negotiation between Don Vito Corleone and Sollozo "The Turk."

Sollozo asks Corleone's help in getting started in the drug trade but is refused.

Though it has caught on and has proven to be wildly popular, it's a dirty aspect of the music business that is only tolerated because it is profitable.

This needs to be understood.

Originally Posted by Dakar

Hate the sin, not the sinner.

I wasn't hating the sinner. But when involved in a thread where you or something you value is being attacked from many sides, seemingly all at once, I understand it's difficult to sort out those who are attacking from those who are stating truths that may hurt.

What I posted may have seemed to you like I was hating the sinner. I tried to say that I wasn't. You seemed to think I might have been implying you are/were a gangsta. I was not and am not trying to say that.

I'm going to try to retire from this thread so I can, hopefully, stay out of these kinds of misunderstandings.

I've said my piece.

When you sleep with dogs don't be surprised when you awake with fleas.

May God save his soul.

[Dark Helmet]

We should be happy for him. He is in the eternal bliss of heaven if he played his cards right.

[Mooga2]

Originally Posted by Super Mario

Can't wait for the other 11 to get it.

Bring back the real black music as performed by real black artists. Bamboozled. That movie had a strong point.

D12 was a sextet rap group (6 members).

Originally Posted by Cipher13

Yeah, I'll bet this was the result of him talking himself up like the "gangsta" he so wants to be.

Good riddance. He got what he wanted.

Proof did not rap about wanting to die.

Originally Posted by Cipher13

The fact that Proof may have been a good guy with redeeming qualities only underscores the bankrupted values of the world in which he lived. A world that took him as it's latest in a long line of human sacrifices. The end of that line not soon to be seen.

This needs to be understood.

You're right. Oprah had an interesting report on schools down in one part of Chicago where the kids were frisked through metal detectors, roofs were leaking and a shortage of books and learning materials; the school looked like a jail undisguised.

To take someone who grew up in that environment and can create their experience into an art that is compelling and gets people to listen, is amazing. The war in Vietnam was changed when America saw actual explicit footage of the devastation. It brought people to question what was actually going on, and it changed the course of history. Hip-hop now has the attention of the world, and hopefully the politicians and people will recognize the social problems, instead of merely silencing the messenger.

[meelk]

DETROIT, Michigan (AP) -- Rapper Proof fired the first bullet in a Detroit nightclub shootout that ended his life, police said Wednesday.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Musi....ap/index.html

there we go, for all of the people defending him. How can you sit and defend such a complete waste of a human being? Some of you are so bleeding heart it makes me sick.

This piece of trash got what he deserved. I will never believe the "you cant understand 'his lifestyle'" line, what a pathetic excuse for someone to be a criminal. You are what you make yourself, and he was a piece of trash, he got what he deserved.

I hope when someone kills one of your family members you arent angry at them and just 'understand their lifestyle'. morons.

[Dark Helmet]

Not only is he an idiot he is also a bad shot

Why would someone with as much money as him go to a nightclub and start firing shots? Why even bring a gun in the first place?

ya to hell with him. Trash is right.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by abe

When you sleep with dogs don't be surprised when you awake with fleas.

Or puppies.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Or puppies.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Mooga2

D12 was a sextet rap group (6 members).



Proof did not rap about wanting to die.



You're right. Oprah had an interesting report on schools down in one part of Chicago where the kids were frisked through metal detectors, roofs were leaking and a shortage of books and learning materials; the school looked like a jail undisguised.

To take someone who grew up in that environment and can create their experience into an art that is compelling and gets people to listen, is amazing. The war in Vietnam was changed when America saw actual explicit footage of the devastation. It brought people to question what was actually going on, and it changed the course of history. Hip-hop now has the attention of the world, and hopefully the politicians and people will recognize the social problems, instead of merely silencing the messenger.

The fact that Proof may have been a good guy with redeeming qualities only underscores the bankrupted values of the world in which he lived. A world that took him as it's latest in a long line of human sacrifices. The end of that line not soon to be seen.

This needs to be understood.

You mis-attributed that line, dawg.

Oh, and the war in Viet Nam was WON but we bugged out just when the South Vietnamese had taken over the lion's share of the fighting. They were just about to win when the US denied any more funding and all the promises we told them about standing by them and supporting them and not betraying their trust. Poooooottttt!!!!!

So, don't try to use Viet Nam as a positive. It helped cause the terrorism we face in the world right now.

To continue this discussion join us in the P/L.

Peace, out.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Or puppies.

[IceEnclosure]

Hip-Hop gets a bad rap. Particularly as a result of the mainstream hip-hop scene in the US. It sucks pretty bad. Everyone wants to make a buck, and everyone thinks they can write and produce. MTV said last night "Hip Hop has lost another soldier..." wtf


I'm just sayin'

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

"Hip Hop has lost another soldier..." wtf


I'm just sayin'

A soldier in the stupid behaviour war apparently.

[OB1]

Do you ever think some of these rappers are just actors? In it because you can make gazillions of dollars? If you were an ex-crack-dealer, would you be talking about it?

I think it's far more likely Mr Proof was having a grand old time in this late-drinking den. He's wealthy and semi-famous, so drink and jealousy took hold of someone there. Someone with a gun. Who the phuc carries a gun around with them anyway? - Bad guys.

To anyone who said "good", "deserved it" or anything similar. You should be ashamed, a man is dead.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by OB1

You should be ashamed, a man is dead.

Correction, a man who fired a gun at another man in a public setting couldn't aim and got what was coming to him.

SO GOOD!

[meelk]

Originally Posted by OB1

Do you ever think some of these rappers are just actors? In it because you can make gazillions of dollars? If you were an ex-crack-dealer, would you be talking about it?

I think it's far more likely Mr Proof was having a grand old time in this late-drinking den. He's wealthy and semi-famous, so drink and jealousy took hold of someone there. Someone with a gun. Who the phuc carries a gun around with them anyway? - Bad guys.

To anyone who said "good", "deserved it" or anything similar. You should be ashamed, a man is dead.

"Mr Proof" fired the first shot. Your whole little speech falls flat on its face right there.

[alphasubzero949]

Originally Posted by Super Mario

Can't wait for the other 11 to get it.

You mean 5.

[OB1]

Originally Posted by meelk

"Mr Proof" fired the first shot. Your whole little speech falls flat on its face right there.

oops, I'm an idiot. I guess if you live by the sword...

[Kevin]

Instead of hoping death on these guys, you should instead wish that events like this would open their eyes.

[torsoboy]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...604130377/1033

"Proof was in the club Tuesday morning well after closing time with his entourage. At the same time, Bender, a 35-year-old Army veteran, was with friends celebrating news that the heart condition that forced his retirement from the service had improved.

An argument over a pool game escalated into a fight, police said.

Witnesses told police that Proof pulled a gun as he knocked Bender to the floor. Proof shot Bender and, as Proof stood over his prone body, one of Bender's companions shot several times, police said."

Doesn't sound like a very good guy to me. Shot the guy in the head over a pool game. Sounds like Bender's buddy was just defending him after he was shot by Proof.

I hope this opens their eyes.

[Dark Helmet]

give it a few more years and there will be no more rap music at the rate the artists are shooting one another.

[IceEnclosure]

well, hopefully common, talib kweli and mos def will still be around. then I can still smile every day.