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besson3c · Jun 2, 2009, 12:32 AM

Do you guys know of any parents into the whole helicopter parenting style? Any opinions on how well this works, the effects of this, etc.?

design219 · Jun 2, 2009, 07:43 AM

I feel that helicopters are just too dangerous for kids, and the chance of failure at flying a helicopter could be detrimental to their fulfillment and development as a human being. I guess if you stayed with the kid at all times while in the helicopter, just to make sure he is doing it right and enjoying it to the maximum, then maybe it's alright. Actually, the more I think about it, I think my kid should learn to fly a helicopter. I'll have to find the very best helicopter school for him.

MarkLT1 · Jun 2, 2009, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Do you guys know of any parents into the whole helicopter parenting style? Any opinions on how well this works, the effects of this, etc.?

This is the first I've heard of helicopter parenting being a "style" that one would knowingly choose to be. Up until recently, it was a not-so-positive label colleges were putting on parents that simply wouldn't let their kids go, and continued to "hover" over them even after they had left home.

As for how well it works? Well, if you want to end up with kids who have little self confidence, and need to rely on you for everything, it'll work great!

Maflynn · Jun 2, 2009, 08:54 AM

My kids are too young to let them fly helicopters. Plus helicopter lessons are too expensive

osiris · Jun 2, 2009, 09:57 AM

It's the thing of the future.

iMOTOR · Jun 2, 2009, 01:54 PM

I think it would be better for the kids to learn how to fly fixed wing aircraft first.

Laminar · Jun 2, 2009, 02:01 PM

[additional double entendre-related joke]

mattyb · Jun 2, 2009, 03:49 PM

Son : I'm going to the beer tent !
Dad : Get back here right now !!!!!!
--

SpaceMonkey · Jun 2, 2009, 06:03 PM

That's why I'll never let my kid fly a helicopter.

besson3c · Jun 2, 2009, 11:57 PM

Do you guys know any helicopter parents? Have you ever said anything to them about their helicoptering?

Face Ache · Jun 3, 2009, 01:43 AM

I tried but the noise of the rotors drowned me out.

Railroader · Jun 3, 2009, 11:06 AM

I use more of a mouth-brooding cichlid type of parenting style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkmmpSrbbjM

paul w · Jun 3, 2009, 11:15 AM

I'm more of a zeppelin parent really.

finboy · Jun 3, 2009, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by MarkLT1

This is the first I've heard of helicopter parenting being a "style" that one would knowingly choose to be. Up until recently, it was a not-so-positive label colleges were putting on parents that simply wouldn't let their kids go, and continued to "hover" over them even after they had left home.

As for how well it works? Well, if you want to end up with kids who have little self confidence, and need to rely on you for everything, it'll work great!

The whole HP thing is associated with the "Millennial" fallacy, the idea that the latest generation is somehow different from Gen X, etc. HP have always existed in one form or another. A lot of boomers ended up being HP, for my generation, because they didn't want their kids doing what THEY did in the 60s.

HP is also a term thrown around by educators to deride the parents who ARE involved with their kids and their kids' outcomes. Education types always rag on parents for not being involved (they don't come to open house or PTA or whatever) right up until they DO become involved and hold people accountable.

In any case, extreme HP makes kids too dependent, that's for sure. You've got to watch over everything the kid's involved in, no question about it, because there are plenty of idiots out there (teachers, principals no exception). But kids need a set of decision-making skills, not decisions made for them.

I see too many kids in college who've never had to make decisions or take responsibility (or work for an outcome). A lot of them end up 30 and not knowing their asses from 3rd base.

andi*pandi · Jun 3, 2009, 01:35 PM

I prefer my parenting to be of the horse and buggy style. That is, if buggies have a power outlet for a dvd player. Hmm, someone needs to invent a way to harness power on a buggy. Solar powered roof? Generator from motion? Hmm.

MarkLT1 · Jun 3, 2009, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by finboy

The whole HP thing is associated with the "Millennial" fallacy, the idea that the latest generation is somehow different from Gen X, etc. HP have always existed in one form or another. A lot of boomers ended up being HP, for my generation, because they didn't want their kids doing what THEY did in the 60s.

HP is also a term thrown around by educators to deride the parents who ARE involved with their kids and their kids' outcomes. Education types always rag on parents for not being involved (they don't come to open house or PTA or whatever) right up until they DO become involved and hold people accountable.

In any case, extreme HP makes kids too dependent, that's for sure. You've got to watch over everything the kid's involved in, no question about it, because there are plenty of idiots out there (teachers, principals no exception). But kids need a set of decision-making skills, not decisions made for them.

I see too many kids in college who've never had to make decisions or take responsibility (or work for an outcome). A lot of them end up 30 and not knowing their asses from 3rd base.

I think what I am referring to is the extreme cases that I see every semester. Parents of Junior and Senior univ. students helping them rewrite papers, calling/emailing me daily (when I was a grad student TA) trying to refute my grading decisions, etc.. Dont get me wrong- some parent involvement (esp. at levels before College) is a great thing. Here are two recent examples- one of extreme helicopter parenting, and the other of simply a parent that is involved in a more healthy way:

1: The helicopter parent. For this class I am the lecturer. Helicopter Mom's son turns in a programming assignment in my class, does 1/2 of the requirements, and that half he did, was TERRIBLE. I grade the assignment, and am very generous in giving him a 30/100 (he probably actually deserved a 20/100, but I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt on things I could). I hand back the assignments. 2 days later, HM calls my office- "How could you give my son a 30/100." I kindly explained that he had only done half the assignment (so 50% off right there), and done that half very poorly. She starts going on and on about how he deserved at least a C for his effort, and that they weren't paying hover many thousands of dollars for tuition for their son to fail. She then hangs up on me, and gets a dean involved. I had to sit down with the dean and prove why I assigned the grade (on a damn weekly homework assignment). From that point on, she was calling or emailing me weekly nitpicking every single grade I gave her son.

2. The more healthily involved parent. I was TAing a course as a grad student. I get a call one day from a concerned father, a bit perturbed, asking why his daughter was failing the class. I said "let me check" then upon reviewing my records said: "Well, she hasn't been to lecture in 5 weeks, hasn't turned in the last 4 home work assignments, and had the worst grade in the entire class on the mid-term." The father said "Thank you for being honest" and hung up.

I don't know what he said to his daughter, but from that point on she never missed a single class, turned in every missed assignment (even though she wasn't going to get a grade on the first 2, as it was past the date she could get any credit), and worked her ass off, and ended up getting a C+ in the course.

The sad part is, while the HM in #1 is the most extreme I have encountered, most involved parents I have encountered have been much closer to #1 to #2. It is a pretty sad state.

andi*pandi · Jun 3, 2009, 02:50 PM

These are college courses? WOW.

besson3c · Jun 3, 2009, 02:50 PM

I know of helicopter parents that schedule all of their high school student's appointments to music lessons, which sort of prompted this thread. It seemed silly to me to not give the kids any responsibilities for these sorts of fairly basic things. It's the Mom that cancels lessons because "my son has too much homework", or "my son needs some time off", etc. This caught me by surprise a little, my parents definitely didn't do this for me in my 11th or 12th grade.

It sounds like this case is pretty mild compared to others though

Did you guys have parents that shielded you from all of your responsibilities as a kid, or is this just a weird generational thing?

besson3c · Jun 3, 2009, 02:56 PM

I'm also reminded of a scene from the Adam Sandler movie "Big Daddy" where the kid was going to be separated from Sandler or something and the kid pleas "but, I wipe my own ass now!"

Really, these helicopter parents might as well be wiping the asses of their kids, they are just a few steps away from this.

design219 · Jun 3, 2009, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Really, these helicopter parents might as well be wiping the asses of their kids, they are just a few steps away from this.

So, this is a rant thread?

besson3c · Jun 3, 2009, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by design219

So, this is a rant thread?

It can be, or it can be a share-your-experience thread, a debate-with-besson3c thread (I don't have particularly strong opinions about helicopter parents, they are a new discover for me), a joke about helicopters thread, a thread about zambonis, or whatever else you want it to be!

SpaceMonkey · Jun 3, 2009, 04:19 PM

Zamboni parents are the worst. Youth hockey breeds extremely low-class behavior.

MarkLT1 · Jun 3, 2009, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

These are college courses? WOW.

Yes.. depressing..

I have 1 or 2 each semester.

finboy · Jun 3, 2009, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by MarkLT1

The sad part is, while the HM in #1 is the most extreme I have encountered, most involved parents I have encountered have been much closer to #1 to #2. It is a pretty sad state.

Hey, I've been there. Had that kind of stuff in the late 80s even. Obnoxious parents know no generational boundaries. It's not YOUR JOB to deal with those bozos -- send them to your dept. chair and/or associate dean, undergrad dean, whatever.

One other thing, though, that you should think about. In the US, at least, there's a thing called FERPA that means you can't discuss anyone's grades with anyone else. So, even though Mommy & Daddy are paying the bills, you can't talk to them about little Suzie's grades. Even attendance information is restricted -- it's private between you, your superiors (the Dean, etc.) and the student. Not only can you get in trouble for the school, but little Suzie can (and will) sue your butt, personally, for disclosing her private info.

FERPA also means you can't send grades by email or give them over the phone, because neither of those are secure. US Mail is OK if you want to do that. I've had little Johnnie's dad call and pretend to be him, so I know it happens.

FERPA is discussed at Wiki, but I'd bet that your school has its own policies. I'm just saying be careful out there.

Eriamjh · Jun 3, 2009, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by MarkLT1

Yes.. depressing..

I have 1 or 2 each semester.

have you ever notified a HP that if they interfere again, you will fail their child?

besson3c · Jun 3, 2009, 09:46 PM

Have any of you ever had sex in a helicopter?

Ghoser777 · Jun 3, 2009, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Have any of you ever had sex?

Fixed.

pooka · Jun 4, 2009, 12:45 PM

"Millennial" fallacy? Sorry bud, Generation Y(ine) is quite real.

MarkLT1 · Jun 4, 2009, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by finboy

Hey, I've been there. Had that kind of stuff in the late 80s even. Obnoxious parents know no generational boundaries. It's not YOUR JOB to deal with those bozos -- send them to your dept. chair and/or associate dean, undergrad dean, whatever.

One other thing, though, that you should think about. In the US, at least, there's a thing called FERPA that means you can't discuss anyone's grades with anyone else. So, even though Mommy & Daddy are paying the bills, you can't talk to them about little Suzie's grades. Even attendance information is restricted -- it's private between you, your superiors (the Dean, etc.) and the student. Not only can you get in trouble for the school, but little Suzie can (and will) sue your butt, personally, for disclosing her private info.

FERPA also means you can't send grades by email or give them over the phone, because neither of those are secure. US Mail is OK if you want to do that. I've had little Johnnie's dad call and pretend to be him, so I know it happens.

FERPA is discussed at Wiki, but I'd bet that your school has its own policies. I'm just saying be careful out there.

Yup.. it is a pain- but once they get your email/number, its like they just wont let go.

As for the FERPA issues, In these cases with the HPs:
1) I'd guess their kids have signed the "My parents cant see my grades" waiver (though yes, making this assumption is probably not a good thing to do)
2) I only discuss what they bring up. "Why did my son get a C on his test".. well, the parent obviously knows about the test grade. Its a fine, frustrating line to walk.