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$20Billion A Year
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OldManMac
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Jun 26, 2011, 12:23 AM
 
for air conditioning in Iraq and Afghanistan. Bring the troops home now!

Among The Costs Of War: $20B In Air Conditioning : NPR
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
Shaddim
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Jun 26, 2011, 02:48 AM
 
Bring them home? Did you read the article? From a cost perspective, it doesn't really seem to matter much.

"What history has told us is that you don't see a proportional decrease in spending based on the number of troops when you draw them down," Chris Hellman, a senior research analyst at the National Priorities Project, tells Martin.

"In Afghanistan that's going to be particularly true because it's a very difficult and austere environment in which to operate," he says.

That means most war expenditures lie not in the troops themselves but in the infrastructure that supports them — infrastructure that in some cases will remain in place long after troops are gone.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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OldManMac  (op)
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Jun 26, 2011, 09:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Bring them home? Did you read the article? From a cost perspective, it doesn't really seem to matter much.
If you don't have troops there, you don't have costs. Duh!
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
BLAZE_MkIV
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Jun 26, 2011, 10:12 AM
 
You can't unbuild a fort and turn it back into crystals.
     
Shaddim
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Jun 26, 2011, 01:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
If you don't have troops there, you don't have costs. Duh!
So, I guess you didn't read it.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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ghporter
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Jun 26, 2011, 03:11 PM
 
In most remote posts, air conditioning is only used in common areas like food prep and medical facilities (where health and safety are a huge concern). These are typically cooled with "environmental control units," which are not terribly fuel/power efficient. At established bases, most facilities are built with A/C, but it's typical residential/commercial equipment that's doing the cooling there, and it's not a big part of the cost,

Here's where I think that $20B price tag is coming from:infrasturcture to get power to the facilities and building and shipping the ECUs into the theater. How much electrical infrastructure was there in the Afghan hinterlands before 2001? Between nil and trivial. Building an electrical infrastructure is out of the question-that's just begging to have the bad guys blow up towers and lines. Instead, they are using large-scale portable pow generation equipment. That stuff is expensive to lease, and from experience, I'll bet it's all leased.

I spent a year stationed in central Honduras. The electrical infrastructure there was extremely poor, so the Army set up a "generator farm" made up of a large number of Cat 40' trailer-based generators. (Air fields NEED electricity, and communications systems, and other support that depends on electricity. We weren't just playing video games...). That was some expensive power, but they didn't build a real power plant because treaty obligations limited "permanent" construction. I'll bet the situation in Afghanistan is similar: no permission to build anything permanent, and of course no desire to build expensive terrorist targets.

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besson3c
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Jun 26, 2011, 03:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
So, I guess you didn't read it.

I think he meant bring them *all* home
     
OldManMac  (op)
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Jun 26, 2011, 04:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I think he meant bring them *all* home
I thought that was rather obvious.
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
Railroader
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Jun 27, 2011, 11:05 PM
 
Certainly there will be no ramifications from that. At all.
     
Lateralus
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Jun 27, 2011, 11:07 PM
 
There's been ramifications since we went in. There will always be ramifications whether we're there or not. Ramifications aren't a one-way, this-or-that consequence.

I prefer the ramifications that don't have us draining $2bn/wk and losing focus on other, far greater threats...
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OldManMac  (op)
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Jun 28, 2011, 05:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Certainly there will be no ramifications from that. At all.
Yes there will be ramifications; we will be able to stop pouring money down a drain, and fix the problems we have at home, rather than propping up corrupt, inefficient governments, and pretending that we're exporting democracy (which some gullible people actually believe we're doing).
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
BadKosh
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Jun 28, 2011, 09:15 AM
 
Bring them home and let them sit around in OUR Air Conditioning. Costs about the same.
     
Athens
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Jun 28, 2011, 12:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV View Post
You can't unbuild a fort and turn it back into crystals.
Ya you can

Ballistic Armored Mobile Containers by Rapid Response Concepts

This is what our troops sleep in at forward looking operational bases

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Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Athens
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Jun 28, 2011, 01:02 PM
 
I have to admit though its funny how we look at the value of our dollars in these operations. I mean we spend Hundreds of billions over years with a occupational force yet had we given this same money to companies to build roads, infrastructure and a economy Afghanistan would be a totally different place now and probably a economic contributor vs a net drainer. Economic activity leads to peace not occupation. If citizens are to busy making money, are fully feed and housed and enjoying a good life everything falls in to place for stability. Hardships creates desperation which leads to everything undesirable like terrorists.
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BLAZE_MkIV
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Jun 28, 2011, 02:59 PM
 
"had we given this same money to companies to build roads, infrastructure and a economy"
And how much do we give to the families of the construction workers who were gunned down on the job? I'm assuming here that you want to import most of your labor and management instead of loosing 90% of the funds spent to graft.
     
Athens
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Jun 28, 2011, 03:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV View Post
"had we given this same money to companies to build roads, infrastructure and a economy"
And how much do we give to the families of the construction workers who were gunned down on the job? I'm assuming here that you want to import most of your labor and management instead of loosing 90% of the funds spent to graft.
Let the companies deal with security. Some South Africa corporations are better armed then some countries.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
   
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