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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Applications > Mail, what new version, how get clean slate?

Mail, what new version, how get clean slate?
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jeff k
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Apr 16, 2012, 11:12 AM
 
I'm on Entourage 2004, been trying to upgrade to Outlook 2011 for awhile but even new service pack 2 is still buggy. It quits upon emptying deleted items.

What is the newest version of Mail, and how to I empty out my current identity and try to re-import again?

When I tried to import from Entourage 2004 a year ago, it did a poor job, it konked out 1/3 through. At least Outlook does a near perfect import job.

But I'll try again!
     
mduell
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Apr 16, 2012, 12:21 PM
 
You can get Mail 4.5 if you're on OS X 10.6.8; I don't know if 10.6.2 can get 4.5.

I doubt it's going to import Entourage very well.
     
jeff k  (op)
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Apr 16, 2012, 12:59 PM
 
sorry, I'm on 10.6.8 and have Mail 4.5
is that most recent Mail? have had that a year or more?

How to I clear (in Entourage called identity) - delete all accounts, address book, folders.
     
angelmb
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Apr 16, 2012, 03:24 PM
 
Mail is bundled with OS X. You can't have Mac OS X 10.7 Lion's Mail app (version 5.2 as we speak) on Mac OS X 10.6.8

To reset Mac OS X Mail:

- From the Mail app go to Preferences, click on the Accounts tab. There, accounts should be listed, select the ones you want to delete and then clic the minus (-) sign in the lower left corner of the window.

- Delete the Mail folder in your user's Library folder and the com.apple.mail.plist file from the Preferences folder inside your user's Library folder.

I guess Address Book info might remain available at the Address Book app, you can either delete the contacts there (not sure if you want to lose those) or you can go to Mail (the app) > Window > Previous Recipients and delete those you don't want to keep.

As for getting Mail to work with Outlook: How to import mail from Office Oulook 2011 in Apple Mail
     
Art Vandelay
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Apr 16, 2012, 03:40 PM
 
The fact that migrating your Entourage profile to Outlook and Mail caused problems suggests that there may be a problem with your Entourage profile. Try rebuilding it by opening Entourage while holding the Option key. You'll be presented with a tool for rebuilding the database that Entourage uses for identities.
Vandelay Industries
     
besson3c
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Apr 16, 2012, 03:44 PM
 
Is your mail account POP or IMAP?
     
jeff k  (op)
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Apr 16, 2012, 07:24 PM
 
I'm pop guys
     
jeff k  (op)
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Apr 16, 2012, 07:27 PM
 
I DO THE rebuild and compact every month.

2011 wow, just always some bug.

The import last night went perfect. But when I try to do an empty deleted items the app crashes--consistently with that action.. Always some dealbreaker so I'm back to Entourage 2004.

Mail, There is not one file like identities in Office, which nukes everything back to clear?

Not sure I have energy for Mail.

Email is to critical to business, I may just stay with 2004 for life. I just so wiped out with the instability of changing to a new program.
     
besson3c
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Apr 16, 2012, 07:50 PM
 
I'm wondering if the import is failing on the importing of messages, and not profile information.

I strongly suggest you stop using POP. Even if you don't wish to heed my suggestion, you can setup a free IMAP account to assist with the migration of mail, which will be a completely client agnostic alternative approach to running some import script and hoping for the best.

If email is critical to your business though, stop using POP. You are asking for all sorts of troubles should you ever suffer irreparable hard drive or file system damage and your backups are insufficient. Plus, you'll be far more portable with an IMAP client, you can use a smartphone to access your mail in a sane way (no idea whether any smartphone supports POP + keeping messages on the server, but I doubt it), and you won't have these hassles should you contemplate switching clients again.

Why does POP still exist in 2012? It has been long obsolete... Sorry, little mini rant jeff k, I'm not criticizing you (although I might question your sanity if you wish to continue using POP
     
cgc
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Apr 16, 2012, 08:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
You can get Mail 4.5 if you're on OS X 10.6.8; I don't know if 10.6.2 can get 4.5.

I doubt it's going to import Entourage very well.
Yeah, not too hard to go Mail.app --> MS Entourage/Outlook but not so easy to go the other way around. Used to be able to use Eudora as a go-between/middle-man but I dunno if you can now...maybe Thunderbird has a plugin that could help.
     
besson3c
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Apr 16, 2012, 09:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by cgc View Post
Yeah, not too hard to go Mail.app --> MS Entourage/Outlook but not so easy to go the other way around. Used to be able to use Eudora as a go-between/middle-man but I dunno if you can now...maybe Thunderbird has a plugin that could help.
Why do this when IMAP can your middleman?

If you can find an import script or something that can take your local mail store from one client to another, great, but by the time you've found this solution you could probably have this done or nearly done with IMAP.
     
jeff k  (op)
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Apr 16, 2012, 11:43 PM
 
Besson, what does this mean?

"completely client agnostic alternative approach to running some import script and hoping for the best."

I tried to switch to imap, but my web hoster had issues. Lot of weird issues. They blamed it on Entourage 2004. So I was hoping to try again with Outlook 2011. (lot of weird issues with imap compared to simple pop)

cgc, what did mean? not so easy to go from who to who?

Remember the import has to perfectly have all accounts working perfectly, and all the folders there perfect, address book. So far Outlook seems to do a great job, but then is always has some bug! now when I empty deleted items it crashes every time. So it's still a dealbreaker.
     
besson3c
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Apr 16, 2012, 11:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
Besson, what does this mean?

"completely client agnostic alternative approach to running some import script and hoping for the best."

I tried to switch to imap, but my web hoster had issues. Lot of weird issues. They blamed it on Entourage 2004. So I was hoping to try again with Outlook 2011. (lot of weird issues with imap compared to simple pop)
Client agnostic means that it is an approach that will work no matter what client (i.e. mail application) you use, as long as the application suports IMAP (as any modern mail application will). [/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I understand what your web host has to do with IMAP, unless you were trying to access your mailbox through an email service provided by your web host, if you pay money to a web host to host a website for you?

IMAP is IMAP, it shouldn't matter what IMAP program you use. There might be some obscure quirks with some, but they all should provide you with basic functionality.
     
jeff k  (op)
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Apr 17, 2012, 12:20 PM
 
besson, my web host does the email for my main email account.

Here are some of my imap notes from web hosters.....

"I would say "dangerous" is too strong a word.
But with IMAP, your email program(s) are able to modify the content on the server more easily, and there is more chance for confusing behavior or conflicting settings.
It is important that all computers that have a given email account set up have the same settings for that account.
For example, if one computer is set to leave sent messages on the server for 1 week, and the other is set to leave them for one month, ....."

Here were the Imap issues I was having, (I was hoping to try again with 2011, but 2011 is still buggy...

(I cannot even remember all imap issues now, but from my notes on why it did not work out...





IMAP

ORIGINAL ISSUE CANNOT MAKE NEW FOLDERS
AND SYNCING ISSUE WITH SPAM AND TRASH FOLDERS

Hi Jeff

What we found:
Under the Server Options for the account, 'Root Folder' had to be set to 'INBOX.' and 'Live Sync (stay connected with server)' had to be enabled.

Additionally, for some reason Microsoft Entourage was configured to group emails by sender and therefore messages in the particular folders were not showing in the proper order which may have led to further confusion - we've removed the grouping for you.

So now your Inbox, Spam, Trash, Sent and all other folders should be in sync

You can also now create folders by right clicking on the IMAP account and clicking on 'New Folder' (note, that right-clicking on 'Inbox' and selecting 'New Subfolder' will *not* work). Please keep in mind that folder names cannot have spaces.



Imap sent folder
Entourage, arrange by sent category

OTHER IMAP ISSUES
(error messages, not deleting emails, cannot find on server, and most weird: changing spam sieve rule to move messages from spam folder to inbox – it would not stick to spam folder or any folder within the dogbark imap folders always went back to inbox, but would stick with any folder outside of dobark imap folder) – even with account unchecked, get uploads/updates and error messages. Need to delete the account)
     
besson3c
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Apr 17, 2012, 05:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
besson, my web host does the email for my main email account.

Here are some of my imap notes from web hosters.....

"I would say "dangerous" is too strong a word.
But with IMAP, your email program(s) are able to modify the content on the server more easily, and there is more chance for confusing behavior or conflicting settings.
It is important that all computers that have a given email account set up have the same settings for that account.
For example, if one computer is set to leave sent messages on the server for 1 week, and the other is set to leave them for one month, ....."
I don't understand what is meant by "more easily", and this same setting for deleting old sent items/spam/etc. Applies to both local POP mail and IMAP mail. If you are concerned with old sent messages being automatically deleted, it shouldn't take more than a minute to check on this setting. You aren't accessing the same mailbox from multiple computers now anyway, right?

Here were the Imap issues I was having, (I was hoping to try again with 2011, but 2011 is still buggy...

IMAP

ORIGINAL ISSUE CANNOT MAKE NEW FOLDERS
AND SYNCING ISSUE WITH SPAM AND TRASH FOLDERS

Hi Jeff

What we found:
Under the Server Options for the account, 'Root Folder' had to be set to 'INBOX.' and 'Live Sync (stay connected with server)' had to be enabled.
I don't understand this solution, in part because you didn't provide the question. Your root folder/IMAP path prefix should be automatically set, you don't have to touch it. Staying connected with the server (IDLE support) is optional. Neither have anything to do with making new folders and syncing with spam and trash. Well, the root folder/IMAP path prefix might, but only if you have gone out of your way to change this setting.

Additionally, for some reason Microsoft Entourage was configured to group emails by sender and therefore messages in the particular folders were not showing in the proper order which may have led to further confusion - we've removed the grouping for you.
Huh? Who is "we've"? Your hosting provider cannot change your Entourage settings.

So now your Inbox, Spam, Trash, Sent and all other folders should be in sync
Huh? What does this have to do with message order?

You can also now create folders by right clicking on the IMAP account and clicking on 'New Folder' (note, that right-clicking on 'Inbox' and selecting 'New Subfolder' will *not* work). Please keep in mind that folder names cannot have spaces.
Is there a problem here? New folders can have spaces, I'm not sure why whomever told you this.



Imap sent folder
Entourage, arrange by sent category

OTHER IMAP ISSUES
(error messages, not deleting emails, cannot find on server, and most weird: changing spam sieve rule to move messages from spam folder to inbox – it would not stick to spam folder or any folder within the dogbark imap folders always went back to inbox, but would stick with any folder outside of dobark imap folder) – even with account unchecked, get uploads/updates and error messages. Need to delete the account)


If you want help with this stuff, can you please ask questions in a less cryptic way? I don't really want to work this hard to understand what you are asking or describing, I can't make any sense of this either. Please use plain english, and not shorthand.

If these are just notes to yourself and you are sharing them with us for some reason, okay... It's hard to tell.
     
jeff k  (op)
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Apr 17, 2012, 07:02 PM
 
Besson, well thats a mix of messages from the hoster, who hard really good and brainy and some notes to me.

Anyway it's all moot as I was going to re-try with Outlook 2011, but had to go back to Entourage 2004.

BTW, Verizon (who has 6 of my email accounts) don't support imap.
     
   
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