[Cipher13]

Ok. This MacWorld was a total load of crap.
Can't Apple do ANYTHING good without screwing something up?
Ok, now here are my complaints:

PowerBook G4: Too wide. It is meant to be a PORTABLE. The screen may be good for DVD's, but its not a damn television!
Not to mention its terrible with games...
And what the hell is with the friggin' drive bays? I mean come on!
Ti is less capable than Pismo!!!
It is a PORTABLE. AGAIN. People don't want to be carrying around extra drives and stuff cause they can only use external drives on the thing. And even then, while it has no room for internal expansion and totally relies on external, it has LESS ports than Pismo!
It has ONE FireWire port!
How damn stupid.
Oh, oh, wait, it has a VGA port too... but what about the new Apple monitors with ADC?
WHAT A WASH!!!
Looks like I was right about complaining about ADC last time. So anyone that said ADC was cool? Yeah eat your words. Even Apple aren't supporting it.
Lessee... introductory price $5495AUS... $500 more than pismo... and yet you get less...
I admit its awesome that its titanium and square, and thin, but still... Pismo is smaller overall (its not nearly as wide).
Ok what else is wrong with that thing... CD/DVD drive, is good. BUT... if you're gonna give no expansion would you rather a DVD drive or CD-RW?
Well thats personal opinion so I'll leave that alone.
Same MHz as Pismo... not good from a consumer point of view.
One battery. 5 hrs. Thats half the time Pismo could handle with two batteries... cause it had expansion bays!
And with Pismo as one got low you could put the other one in the other bay and never have to shut down to change over or anything.
One battery space, no expansion bays... dumb.
Ok, VRAM... I could not believe that. 8 meg?? STILL????
Why not at LEAST 16??
My God... pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. I don't even need to comment on that really.

Ok, now for the PowerMac breakdown:

CD-RW drives standard. Not DVD/DCRW, but just plain old CD-RW.
No!
Take one step forward and one step back and you get nowhere.
Very dumb thing to do.
Next on the list, motherboard revisions: 133MHz bus, AGP4X. Thats it.
That is not UMA-2 people, its a quick hack. Just like overclocking.
Don't let it fool you.
Wheres ATA/100?
Wheres DDR RAM?
And even so the Wintel world is at 400MHz motherboards, the Winamd world at 266...
I mean does Apple really think 133 will cut it?
Sure its an improvement. But its nothing compared to the competition.
Extra PCI slots. Heh. Cool. One extra slot. Wow.
I guess its all they can fit with the current enclosure huh?
Anyway, I guess its a little better.
3 RAM slots. WHAT HAPPENED HERE?
Closer to OSX, and they LOWER the amount of RAM their pro machines have!
3 Slots!
My God that was a stupid move.
Not only do we have to buy higher capacity RAM chips in order to not have to worry about running out of space, but those cost more!
Expect new PowerMacs with new enclosure, extra drive bays, more PCI soon.
Ok, now here is a real killer... no analogue sound in.
I can't believe that.
Is it the same on Titanium?
Well that sucks. USB sound is sh!t. Uses CPU cycles, skips under intense processing, WASTES A USB PORT which are already on short order, and so on... jeez...

Now I won't even comment on the products that weren't updated.
Like the CUBE. Looks like Jobs is already bored of it.
I hope it dies.
Sure its cool, but its not realistic.
But anyway...
OSX looks to be shaping up better than I thought.
If I think of anything else to whinge about I'll post it.

And do not tell me not to whinge or whine, cause its too late

Cipher13

[gorefan68]

Dude, f*ck you.... you just trashed the ti? Come on, thats a computer that might actually get you LAID man. Chicks dig it.

Ca$h

[Cipher13]

<snip>
Nevermind, I won't stoop to your level

Cipher13

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 01-12-2001).]

[AlbertWu]

The SEX and the Power.


I love saying that. It's strange, yet people know what I mean.

------------------
Albert Wu <- No life.
http://web.harker.org/

24/7 Cell phone use can not kill you. I am half-consious proof. (It's not because of the cell phone.)

Caffine is not a mind-altering drug.
It is a life-altering drug!

[jaguarandi]

Hey Ca$h, maybe you should trade in your iHack and get a Ti.

Sounds like you need all the help you can get in the women department....

//e

[Misha]

PowerBook G4: Too wide. It is meant to be a PORTABLE. The screen may be good for DVD's, but its not a damn television!

It's less than one inch more wide than Pismo and more than one inch less deep...

Not to mention its terrible with games...

What? Because it will behave like a 14.1" display?

And what the hell is with the friggin' drive bays? I mean come on!

Yea, a downer, for sure... but trading function for form isn't exactly an earth shattering idea for Apple products.

Ti is less capable than Pismo!!!

Why? Because of the lack of an expansion bay?

It has ONE FireWire port! How damn stupid.

Do you own any FireWire devices? 99% of them have mini-hubs to support daisy chainging... in fact, besides cameras, I can't think of a single FireWire device that doesn't support daisy chaining.

Oh, oh, wait, it has a VGA port too... but what about the new Apple monitors with ADC? WHAT A WASH!!! Looks like I was right about complaining about ADC last time. So anyone that said ADC was cool? Yeah eat your words.

Not really... no projector is ADC (or DVI). This is very important.

introductory price $5495AUS... $500 more than pismo... and yet you get less...

Sure, a G4, twice the RAM, a pound lighter, a bigger screen, a far sturdier case... definately less.

I admit its awesome that its titanium and square, and thin, but still... Pismo is smaller overall (its not nearly as wide).

No, it's larger overall... esp. when you take into consideration how thick it is.

Ok what else is wrong with that thing... CD/DVD drive, is good. BUT... if you're gonna give no expansion would you rather a DVD drive or CD-RW?

Indeed, a point I brought up with Apple (why is there no CD-RW BTO?). You can get FireWire bus powered burners (portable) from LaCie and VST now, though. Plus portable burners are stuck at 4x write... not too compelling.

Same MHz as Pismo... not good from a consumer point of view.

I think you mean marketing... and again, this isn't anything new.

One battery. 5 hrs. Thats half the time Pismo could handle with two batteries... And with Pismo as one got low you could put the other one in the other bay and never have to shut down to change over or anything.
One battery space, no expansion bays... dumb.

No, because with Apple's claim that Pismo could make 5 hours it was more like 3.5 under real world use, about 2 with the DVD. The Ti can get 5 hours under real world use (even as much as 5.5 hours, from what I've heard), and 2.5 with DVD. Plus you can swap batteries while the thing is running (you have about 20 seconds to do so), so it's not quite the incovenience that using just a single battery with Pismo was.

Ok, VRAM... I could not believe that. 8 meg?? STILL???? Why not at LEAST 16??

Fair enough.

It's too late for me to address your Power Mac claims...

[Cipher13]

It's less than one inch more wide than Pismo and more than one inch less deep...

Its really only that much wider?
Wow, cool
I expected more

What? Because it will behave like a 14.1" display?


Because of the odd resolution. I don't fancy bars down the side, or cutting off the top and bottom. It will behave like LESS than a 14.1 cause its not as 'high' (deep) as Pismo.

Why? Because of the lack of an expansion bay?

Its less capable because it can handle less external devices, and no internal devices. Capable in that respect of course.

Do you own any FireWire devices? 99% of them have mini-hubs to support daisy chainging... in fact, besides cameras, I can't think of a single FireWire device that doesn't support daisy chaining.

Yes, I have a FireWire DV camera. I don't like daisy chaining the devices - its a pain, and its messy
And the point is Pismo had 2.

Not really... no projector is ADC (or DVI). This is very important.

Thats besides the point. You still can't hook it up to an ADC monitor.

No, it's larger overall... esp. when you take into consideration how thick it is.

Ok, point - I haven't 'handled' a Ti yet so I shouldn't make such comments.

I think you mean marketing... and again, this isn't anything new.

Yeah marketing.

No, because with Apple's claim that Pismo could make 5 hours it was more like 3.5 under real world use, about 2 with the DVD. The Ti can get 5 hours under real world use (even as much as 5.5 hours, from what I've heard), and 2.5 with DVD. Plus you can swap batteries while the thing is running (you have about 20 seconds to do so), so it's not quite the incovenience that using just a single battery with Pismo was.

Well... I'll have to check up on that battery thing myself. When I get my Pismo

It's too late for me to address your Power Mac claims...

Theres always tomorrow

Cipher13

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 01-12-2001).]

[noliv]

Unfortunately, I agree with Cipher...
Sometimes I don't understand Apple: they can do the best computers, but there's always something that sucks.

For the ADC... I think that it's normal that the PB doesn't have it (because the monitor power supply is in the ADC), but the monitors should have two ports 1 VGA and 1 ADC...

The CDrw instead of a DVD/CDrw is what I hate most... I can't believe it.
You buy a Mac = you need to spend much more money to get what you want (when you can get what you want)

noliv

[This message has been edited by noliv (edited 01-12-2001).]

[Cipher13]

They simply cannot make something better and keep what was already good about it.
Why couldn't they leave the PowerMacs the hell alone with what they had, and up the FSB, AGP, and processor?
Why take the RAM out? The 733 heatsink too big or something??? (then what about the other models)?
Why take away the analogue sound in?
Absolute idiots

Cipher13

[simonjames]

No one is an *absolute* idiot (except maybe John Howard (Australia's primeminister (couldn't use the word 'leader') and that Bush fellow)

Cipher - chill out - Apple did superbly - just compare them with the opposition - other companies may have better profit margins but what other company insites their "followers" like Apples does? They all have their faults and Apple are trying to rectify their problems (eg the CD-RW vs DVD) - one at a time - but they can't do them all - no matter how many people they have and how much money they throw at the problem (anyone who works in software will know where I am coming from).

the problem we all have to face is that personal computing is at the end of it's road unless someone comes up with something really and truely mind-blowing new - something that we haven't even heard of yet. Until that happens every PC & software company on this planet will be trying to screw whatever they can out of what has become a dead-end design. MHz becomes GHz - megaflops become gigaflops become teraflops become whatever

Can you think of something truely new and novel that people will *want* (in fact >>need<< ) to outlay thousands of dollars on? I can't - except of course a real digital personal assistant that will do everything from taking meeting notes to answering phone calls; book appointments & restaurants; synchronise my diary with my partner's and family's; turn the airconditioning on when needed - etc etc

I've used most mainstream computers since the computer started - I use a wintel PC running NT at work and I write software for mainframes - I *like* coming home to my G4 - Apple rules bigtime

well, thats my (southern comfort inspired) rant

"computer, flame retardant suit 'on' "

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by simonjames:
No one is an *absolute* idiot

Hm... based on the theory that nothing is absolute?
But "no one" is also an absolute
Hehehe. I meant it as hyperbole anyway
I agree we are at an ends in computing - or actually, not yet, but quickly approaching - I think the next step will be full virtual reality. Stepping inside your computer... holy sh!t, think thats what GINGER is?!?
Well anyway, next your computer will control your house - that would be cool - hehe, a bluetooth [un]wired house
Hehe, gotta go post to ginger thread...

Cipher13

[Zoom]

Wow, Cipher, you had some bones to pick, eh?

I've got mixed feelings. Sometimes I wish Apple would actually ask us what we want. Why not? They have no competition. Who are they going to tip off? Geez, pass out a survey or something. Does Apple actually research their market, or does Steve just decide he knows what people want (even if they don't)? I'm serious, how does Apple decide what to put in their boxes?

I have to believe somehow that Apple has to trade off all sorts of things against price point for their computers. Does anyone really know what their margins are? Even if they're high, Apple probably needs them high to survive (given the lack of volume compared to Dell, Compaq, etc). My point is that if they did all the things you wanted, the result would be way too expensive. At least that's what I tell myself.

What's a DVD/CD-RW drive cost as compared to a plain CD-RW? It requires a second laser and probably a bevy of extra ASICs, not to mention licensing fees. Figure $100. That's significant.

Of course, this excuse doesn't work for everything. Apple still makes some stupid decisions.

I think where Apple is blowing it on the PowerBooks is focusing soley on the super-thin form factor. That definitely has its place, but you can also have a slightly thicker model made out of plastics (carbon fiber?) with the hot-swappable bays and expandability and so on. Some people truly need that, and now they have no choice but to buy a PC laptop. I think Apple should have made the thin one the top-of-the-line model, and had 2 "regular" form factor low- and mid-priced models. I mean, if you made the Titanium a little bit thicker, you could have all that flexibility, and it should still cost less due to more standard (not mini) internals. And even though I love the thinness and the look of the metal, I don't like the shape. I don't find it sexy at all, it looks like something from sci-fi movie, meant to look very technical - but not sexy. It lacks all the elegant Mac curves.

Apple needs to change the PowerMacs, too. The extra PCI slot was good, but they need faster bus speeds, they need to adopt DDR RAM, they need the fastest hard drive standard (ATA100?) and they certainly can't take away functionality. They need DVD/CD-RW drives, 4 RAM slots, TWO front panel expansion bays (not 1.5), and all the ports they have now. My guess is that a lot of that will happen on the next rev, when they go to UMA-2. I'll bet they redesign the whole case.

But ya gotta love the physical case design. The drop down side is a beautiful thing. It's so clean inside! But the custom case makes it impossible to add third-party drives without looking horrible (a beige drive in the middle of the sexy graphite), and honestly, I think that's why Steve didn't allow it. He won't stand for having tacky-looking Macs out there, so the only things that go in the front bays are custom from Apple. (And the way it is now, there's no bay available, anyway.)

There's a lot of empty space inside my PowerMac. I think they need to either make them smaller (thinner?) or add a lot more expansion areas/slots, or something in between. I guess you can't make them thinner than a CD drive, though, can you? Okay, make it shorter. And give me a USB and Firewire port on the front, even if it's behind a springloaded panel.

Oh, and I agree, they really screwed up taking away the analog audio I/O ports. Jesus, that couldn't have cost much in parts or board real estate, and does Apple really think analog can be abandoned?? I think they should keep it and MAKE IT STANDARD. I hate that I can't put any ol' mic in that jack, and no I don't want to buy a damn adaptor. That's silly.

Well, I guess I had some bones to pick, too.

[Jsnuff1]

ok if i see one more complaint about the powerbood g4 im gonna flip, i just dont now what to say? do you see a pc laptop fit a slot loading dvd in a 1 inch thick book? they dont even have slot loading dvd's, i just dont get what you want
you cant get annything better than this powerbook period.

[let's tone down the profanity... -misha]

[This message has been edited by Misha (edited 01-12-2001).]

[Misha]

do you see a pc laptop fit a slot loading dvd in a 1 inch thick book? they dont even have slot loading dvd's

Actually, Toshiba (it's either Toshiba or NEC; I believe Toshiba) was the first to include a slot-loading DVD in a laptop about 6-9 months ago. Theirs isn't an inch thick, mind you.

Also of note... the slot-loading DVD drive in that model had *a lot* of problems. Here's hoping they fixed it. All Apple needs is for a chunk of hot new machines to have to be sent back for repairs (Summer 2000 iMac, Cube, and more... anyone?)

[Jsnuff1]

im sorry just had to get that out

[Zoom]

Jsnuff, I'm not really ragging on the new 'book. I think it's a kick-butt machine and I'm proud of Apple for making it. But I think it's too much of a specialty machine with no room for customizing to meet specific needs. It's an awesome option in relation to a more typical Powerbook, but I don't think it should be the only option. Yes, there are "three" of them, but not a lot difference between them - just RAM, drive space and CPU speed. Having a swappable bay would be nice, though almost impossible in that casing.

Is the Sony Vaio for everyone? No. But now, that's all Apple has to offer. And it's not like you can go to Umax or Power Computing to get a PPC portable with MacOS to meet your needs, you have to get a PC. I don't like that.

[babble]

I agree with Cipher ALL the way!!!

What the hell is going on with Apple???
Don't give us cd-rw in pro models after taking out the dvd-rom! We already have an external cd-rw (we all bought one 2 years ago when Apple was missing the boat). It would be fun to buy a new system and get one internal but where's my dvd-rom???? (And what's the use of having a cd-rw without a second drive? I want to copy cd's not only do backups)

After loving Apple's Marketing, I'm starting to hate them. What's this? Sex + Power???? Give me a break it's a dam laptop. It's SQUARE!!! (But I like it being Titanium).

Here's how Apple is thinking lately : Okay so our machines a falling behind a lot... There's nothing we can do about it... We surelly can't kick Motorola's but... so let's make great looking machines (Cube, PBG4, etc)... And make people believe wathever we tell them! Ya, that's good!

Examples from the past:
"2 brains are better than one" - Naw that's not true anymore, let's take one out.
"The power to burn this, that & Pentiums" - As if!?!?

PEOPLE G4's ARE NOT EQUAL TO X2 THE SPEED OF A PENTIUM!!!
That's Apple marketing at is best!

[mac freak]

PEOPLE G4's ARE NOT EQUAL TO X2 THE SPEED OF A PENTIUM!!!

Not totally true... G4's ARE about 2.5X as fast in Photoshop...
But nothing else. Ends there.

As for "two brains are better than one," well, Apple's elmination of the whole idea will burn them sometime in the future (when the press realizes it).

------------------
Be Happy.

Just to set the record straight...

Pismo:
Dimensions (in): 12.7 H x 10.4 W x 1.7 D
Volume: 224.5 in^3
Weight: 5.9 lbs

Titanium:
Dimensions (in): 9.5 H x 13.4 W x 1.0 D
Volume: 127.3 in^3
Weight: 5.3 lbs

Titanium takes up nearly half the space of the Pismo!

Of course this doesn't save you much weight-wise...

[This message has been edited by Lunchbox (edited 01-12-2001).]

[gorefan68]

Speaking of Absolute, I could go for a martini....

Ca$h

[IEEE1394]

Is no one praising Apple for the inclusion of the nVidia geforce69x whatever? I thought that would be the first to be commented on?

[tonymac]

Actually, the GeForce2 MX is the low end of the nVidia line. It retails for about $100 dollars, and in most things the ATI Radeon is much faster. Again this is typical Apple marketing BS. You want nVidia, you've got nVidia. Of course, this is not your PC buddy's $350 GeForce2 GTS Pro with 64 meg of DDR VRAM. It's just another example of the "one step forward, two steps back." All this makes me feel a lot better about the G4/400 that I bought for $1599 last February. Nothing has changed that makes me wish I'd waited.

[reader50]

Wheres ATA/100?
Good question.

Wheres DDR RAM?
According to "reliable sources" (MOSR) there are lingering concerns about Apple's new DDR controller chip. Looks like DDR will wait for further testing. I guess having Apple put more into QA again is a good thing. That said, I'd still like to have DDR.

And even so the Wintel world is at 400MHz motherboards
The "400 MHz" stuff for Wintel is all RDRAM junk. Don't believe that those overpriced RDRAMs are actually worth the money. 3x the price, with free lawsuits on the side.

Extra PCI slots. Heh. Cool. One extra slot. Wow. I guess its all they can fit with the current enclosure huh? 3 RAM slots. WHAT HAPPENED HERE? Not only do we have to buy higher capacity RAM chips in order to not have to worry about running out of space, but those cost more!
I looked over a picture of the new motherboard. Apple moved all the high profile stuff (the CPU card & heatsink, the RAM slots) to the back of the motherboard. Putting 5 expansion slots along with the CPU card along the back only left room for 3 RAM slots. But that cleared the front area, there is now room for more front-access 5.25" bays. The lower front bay is still a 3.5", but there are no longer any concerns with turning it into a 5.25 bay. Wish Apple would at least convert that 3.5" bay for us. see picture

Granted the top bay option would look terrible. But a redesigned front could easily give 3 full 5.25" bays with the current motherboard. And larger RAM modules usually end up being a better buy in terms of price per megabyte. Still, I'd rather have more RAM slots than less.

[This message has been edited by reader50 (edited 01-20-2001).]

[exa]

This is simply a speculation, about the audio I/O, but I think Apple will have creative's soundblasters standard in their PM G4s (ok this is wishful thinking now). And for the people who already ordered the new G4s, they would get their free soundblaster with minijack inputs and 24bit outputs... Please be true

[iPaul UK]

I quite like the new G4 Power Book. Although I have no need to buy one or anything as i'm quite content with what I have already. However.. It would appear (And correct me if I am wrong) that it has exactly the same graphics chip set and memory as the current iBooks. Which is great on a relatively small screened iBook. But will it really cut the mustard on the G4 PB's huge screen? Hmm..

New Towers, Again, these are great.. But Apple hasn't really beaten it's 500MHz ceiling problem has it!? Ok, so you can supposedly buy a 533MHz tower now, but thats not ground breaking is it!? It's merely a slightly pushed 500MHz chip no doubt. And the 667 and 733 are weeks away!! I'm really surprised that Apple bothered to announce those as I thought it was Jobs policy not to announce things that could not be shipped pretty much right away. Whats more, buy the time a 733MHz G4 Mac is actually available, I hate to think what dizzy heights PC speeds will have reached. And I see none of them come with the option of a radeon card now.. Radeon didn't last long with Apple then did it! And what about the Dual CPU Macs? They are not listed at all on the UK Apple store site. And it would seem there is only one variant thats going to be offered now anyway. Is Apple giving up on DP Macs?

Also, slightly off topic, but still something that really p!$$e$ me off about Apple.. Here in England, there are now a few high street stores that will sell you a Mac (Mostly nothing more than an iMac/iBook mind) But do they sell software for them!? No.. And if they do, it's a seriously naff selection. Who on earth is going to buy a Mac from a store that doesn't even sell software for them. Especially when the shelves are stacked to the rafters with PC software.

Love Apple though I do, it does have some seriously embarrassing problems. It amazes me how Apple always seem shoot themselves in the foot on a regular basis. Apple is good, but a management team with a healthy dose of common sense would make it SO much better... Agree?

[babble]

For you PaulUK...

If you buy your tower from the AppleStore, you can BTO and exchange the new video card for a Rodeon...(same vram).