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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Michael Vick returns to the football field (jpeg)

Michael Vick returns to the football field (jpeg)
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OldManMac
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Aug 12, 2007, 11:04 AM
 
nm.
( Last edited by OldManMac; Aug 12, 2007 at 11:12 AM. )
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Aug 12, 2007, 12:57 PM
 
come again?
     
irunat2am
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Aug 12, 2007, 01:12 PM
 
and again? Was it one of those "hahaha *post*..oh wait..this isn't funny.." spur of the moment posts? I like those.
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Aug 12, 2007, 02:41 PM
 
I've always liked this Vick picture from Deadspin...

Sic'em, fido!

     
OldManMac  (op)
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Aug 12, 2007, 03:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
I've always liked this Vick picture from Deadspin...

Sic'em, fido!

Thanks. That's the picture, but, for some reason I couldn't get it to post. Oh well.
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Aug 13, 2007, 12:15 PM
 
I hate how this man's career might be ruined because of the media latching on to an unproven accusation.
     
sek929
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Aug 13, 2007, 12:24 PM
 
I hate how a man who has everything anyone could possibly dream for allowed dog fighting to take place at one of his homes.

I'm not saying he is directly responsible, but if he wants us to believe that he had NO IDEA what was going on then he must think the public are saps.

Millionaire athletes need to get their heads out of the f**kin ghetto.
     
exca1ibur
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Aug 13, 2007, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by macintologist View Post
I hate how this man's career might be ruined because of the media latching on to an unproven accusation.
Guilty till proven innocent. The Amercian way.
     
goMac
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Aug 13, 2007, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by macintologist View Post
I hate how this man's career might be ruined because of the media latching on to an unproven accusation.
Yeah, the same thing happened to poor ol' OJ Simpson.

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OldManMac  (op)
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Aug 13, 2007, 12:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by macintologist View Post
I hate how this man's career might be ruined because of the media latching on to an unproven accusation.
You're correct; the charges against him have been unproven yet. OTOH, considering the strong probability that the the prosecution has more evidence than what's given to the press, the charges are very likely to be true. There is also more than one accusation here, and one of his co-defendants has already plead guilty. There's more going on here than you and I know about.
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exca1ibur
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Aug 13, 2007, 12:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Yeah, the same thing happened to poor ol' OJ Simpson.

Guilty when proven innocent. The Amercian way. It's a catch22 either way you look at it, more so in the case.
     
exca1ibur
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Aug 13, 2007, 12:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
You're correct; the charges against him have been unproven yet. OTOH, considering the strong probability that the the prosecution has more evidence than what's given to the press, the charges are very likely to be true. There is also more than one accusation here.
Yeah, but there has been no trial yet, so we have no idea what is on the table. Most 'smart' lawyers present their evidence in court not the media.
     
sek929
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Aug 13, 2007, 12:31 PM
 
If Vick was at the house once then he knew dog fighting was going on....it's not like they snuck in a bong or something...they were fighting dogs to the death...that's something you'd know about if you were around.
     
OldManMac  (op)
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Aug 13, 2007, 12:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Yeah, but there has been no trial yet, so we have no idea what is on the table. Most 'smart' lawyers present their evidence in court not the media.
You're correct; we don't know what's on the table, but we want to know, which is why the media exists. They only exist to provide us with the information they think we want, and that information is all too often, and becoming more so, sensationalism. We love our train wrecks, whether we want to admit it or not.
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Aug 13, 2007, 01:09 PM
 
The Court of Public Opinion may render a verdict before the trial, but it's not necessarily binding. Just ask Kobe Bryant.
     
goMac
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Aug 13, 2007, 01:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Guilty when proven innocent. The Amercian way. It's a catch22 either way you look at it, more so in the case.
I hardly think that the legal system having to examine this case without any predisposition is an excuse for the rest of us to pretend that Vick wasn't involved in this entire thing, when every piece of evidence says that he was involved.
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turtle777
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Aug 13, 2007, 02:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Guilty till proven innocent. The Amercian way.
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Guilty when proven innocent. The Amercian way.
Dude, you're not making sense.

Guilty when WHAT ???

-t
     
Dork.
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Aug 13, 2007, 02:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
I hardly think that the legal system having to examine this case without any predisposition is an excuse for the rest of us to pretend that Vick wasn't involved in this entire thing, when every piece of evidence says that he was involved.
Maybe he was framed by disgruntled Bucs fans?
     
exca1ibur
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Aug 13, 2007, 03:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Dude, you're not making sense.

Guilty when WHAT ???

-t
Did you watch the trial? (Refering to OJ) The verdict was not guilty. However he will always be labeled as guilty, even if the trail said otherwise.
     
exca1ibur
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Aug 13, 2007, 03:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
I hardly think that the legal system having to examine this case without any predisposition is an excuse for the rest of us to pretend that Vick wasn't involved in this entire thing, when every piece of evidence says that he was involved.
THIS is my point. The trail has not even started. Why are you so sure you have seen 100% of the evidence in the case?
     
goMac
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Aug 13, 2007, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
THIS is my point. The trail has not even started. Why are you so sure you have seen 100% of the evidence in the case?
No one is disputing that there was dog fighting going on. No one is disputing he owned the house where it occurred at. Therefore he is at least guilty of some of his charges.

Now his friends are testifying that he was involved. Unless you'd like to argue that his friends are under the influence of alien mind control...
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goMac
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Aug 13, 2007, 04:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Did you watch the trial? (Refering to OJ) The verdict was not guilty. However he will always be labeled as guilty, even if the trail said otherwise.
Trials are not infallible.

OJ Simpson was also found guilty in the civil trial. Please explain how we are supposed to resolve him being found guilty in one trial and innocent in another, if the justice system is as infallible as you say.
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turtle777
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Aug 13, 2007, 04:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Guilty till proven innocent. The Amercian way.
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Guilty when proven innocent. The Amercian way. It's a catch22 either way you look at it, more so in the case.
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Did you watch the trial? (Refering to OJ) The verdict was not guilty. However he will always be labeled as guilty, even if the trail said otherwise.

Your posting still doesn't make sense. Did you mean to say

"Guilty when proven not guilty." ?

OJ was never found innocent. There is a difference between innocent and not guilty, you know.

-t
     
exca1ibur
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Aug 13, 2007, 04:21 PM
 
...

Vick - (Guilty till proven innocent)
Hung before the trail even though the law states you are innocent till proven guilty. Not in the country, if you meet a certain criteria.

OJ - (Guilty when proven innocent)
The trail was two counts of first-degree murder and it was proven he didn't do it. All you hear is he did, even if the trial said other wise.

Conclusion and my point...
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exca1ibur
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Aug 13, 2007, 04:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
No one is disputing that there was dog fighting going on. No one is disputing he owned the house where it occurred at. Therefore he is at least guilty of some of his charges.

Now his friends are testifying that he was involved. Unless you'd like to argue that his friends are under the influence of alien mind control...
Dude, what is there to argue, except you are missing my point. All I am saying as simple as possible... it's good to hear the facts of the case before you start trying to hang the person? What is the problem with that?
     
goMac
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Aug 13, 2007, 04:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Vick - (Guilty till proven innocent)
Hung before the trail even though the law states you are innocent till proven guilty. Not in the country, if you meet a certain criteria.
I don't care. I'm not a court. I am free to spout how much I think Vick is guilty. The evidence is overwhelming that he is guilty. Unless he has some killer evidence to prove he is innocent, I'm pretty sure he's going to jail for a while.

Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
OJ - (Guilty when proven innocent)
The trail was two counts of first-degree murder and it was proven he didn't do it. All you hear is he did, even if the trial said other wise.
Again, he WAS found guilty in the Civil proceedings.
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exca1ibur
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Aug 13, 2007, 04:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
I don't care. I'm not a court. I am free to spout how much I think Vick is guilty. The evidence is overwhelming that he is guilty. Unless he has some killer evidence to prove he is innocent, I'm pretty sure he's going to jail for a while.
And this proves my point to the letter. Guilty till proven innocent. case closed.
     
goMac
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Aug 13, 2007, 04:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Dude, what is there to argue, except you are missing my point. All I am saying as simple as possible... it's good to hear the facts of the case before you start trying to hang the person? What is the problem with that?
From the facts we have heard, it would take a heck of a case for him to be innocent.
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sek929
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Aug 13, 2007, 04:30 PM
 
Except he's not guilty yet, but we are free to say anything we want without you whining about it.

Because it reaaly really seems so, got it?
     
OldManMac  (op)
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Aug 13, 2007, 07:55 PM
 
Things keep looking worse for poor Mr. Vick. Two Vick co-defendants set for plea agreements - NFL - MSNBC.com
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Dork.
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Aug 13, 2007, 10:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
I don't care. I'm not a court. I am free to spout how much I think Vick is guilty. The evidence is overwhelming that he is guilty. Unless he has some killer evidence to prove he is innocent, I'm pretty sure he's going to jail for a while.
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
And this proves my point to the letter. Guilty till proven innocent. case closed.
Actually, it doesn't prove your point. As goMac points out, he is not a court. His opinion carries no weight.

We have a constitutional guarantee that the government will not find us guilty and throw us in jail until guilt has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. We have no such guarantee about what our neighbors or about what the general public think about us. But they can't throw us in jail, so it doesn't matter....

The trial won't be starting for a while, and these accusations will be dogging Vick for quite some time. The charges (as laid out in the media) have quite a bit of bite to them, and Vick will have to explain a lot to avoid getting collared.
     
Sherman Homan
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Aug 13, 2007, 10:28 PM
 
There is a big difference, OJ killed people; Vick killed puppies.
/s
     
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Aug 14, 2007, 11:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
The trial won't be starting for a while, and these accusations will be dogging Vick for quite some time. The charges (as laid out in the media) have quite a bit of bite to them, and Vick will have to explain a lot to avoid getting collared.


Were those deliberate?
Life is like a clay pigeon -- sooner or later, someone is going to shoot you down and even if they miss you'll still wind up shattered and broken in the end.
     
exca1ibur
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Aug 14, 2007, 12:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
Actually, it doesn't prove your point. As goMac points out, he is not a court. His opinion carries no weight.

We have a constitutional guarantee that the government will not find us guilty and throw us in jail until guilt has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. We have no such guarantee about what our neighbors or about what the general public think about us. But they can't throw us in jail, so it doesn't matter....

The trial won't be starting for a while, and these accusations will be dogging Vick for quite some time. The charges (as laid out in the media) have quite a bit of bite to them, and Vick will have to explain a lot to avoid getting collared.
It does prove my point because the public are the ones that are on the jury (You are judged by your peers). If you have ever served on a jury, (I have 3 times), what is the first thing they tell you once the trail begins?... "Don't read or view anything about this case outside of what you hear in the courtroom" Being this is the big media hype now and has been for a while now. Who being picked by a jury hasn't heard the accusations, and for that matter they serve with an opinion already in place? This is basically all I mean.
     
Dork.
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Aug 14, 2007, 12:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by G Barnett View Post


Were those deliberate?
You weren't able to sniff out the third one, though. No treats for you!
     
goMac
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Aug 14, 2007, 12:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
It does prove my point because the public are the ones that are on the jury (You are judged by your peers). If you have ever served on a jury, (I have 3 times), what is the first thing they tell you once the trail begins?... "Don't read or view anything about this case outside of what you hear in the courtroom" Being this is the big media hype now and has been for a while now. Who being picked by a jury hasn't heard the accusations, and for that matter they serve with an opinion already in place? This is basically all I mean.
a) I'm sure there are people who haven't heard the accusations. I think if I asked my girlfriend who Michael Vick was she wouldn't have a clue.
b) When the defense or prosecution selects people to have on the jury, they would be free not to select me.
c) The media is reporting facts surrounding the case, and from those facts, I think he is guilty. He owned a "kennel" where dog fighting occurred and dogs were executed? Case closed for me. At the very least, if he owned the kennel, he should have been keeping tabs on it to make sure that nothing like that was going on. And I mean, that's assuming he wasn't involved. His friends are taking plea deals which means they're going to testify against someone, and that someone is going to be Michael Vick.
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Dork.
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Aug 14, 2007, 12:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
It does prove my point because the public are the ones that are on the jury (You are judged by your peers). If you have ever served on a jury, (I have 3 times), what is the first thing they tell you once the trail begins?... "Don't read or view anything about this case outside of what you hear in the courtroom" Being this is the big media hype now and has been for a while now. Who being picked by a jury hasn't heard the accusations, and for that matter they serve with an opinion already in place? This is basically all I mean.
In this day and age, you're going to have to let people on juries who have heard of popular cases in the media, since media is so pervasive. It's the job of the judge to make sure that any jurors picked can deliberate impartially, without regard to things outside the courtroom. At this rate, if your goal is to find 12 people who have never heard of Michael Vick, you'll have to have the trial on Mars.

At least if J.P. Losman ever got in trouble with the law, you can find plenty of people who have never heard of him, starting with the Bills' wide recievers....
     
exca1ibur
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Aug 14, 2007, 02:01 PM
 
Well then, we all agree to disagree. Fair enough.
     
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Aug 14, 2007, 02:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Vick - (Guilty till proven innocent)
Hung before the trail even though the law states you are innocent till proven guilty. Not in the country, if you meet a certain criteria.
People have opinions - deal with it. In the opinion of most people, there is enough evidence to suggest that he most likely did it. Right now, it looks more likely that he did it than that he didn't do it. It's a reasonable bet to make. We don't bring charges on people at random - we gather evidence and determine whether charges are warranted. So, the fact that he's been charged means that there is evidence to say that he did it.

OJ - (Guilty when proven innocent)
The trail was two counts of first-degree murder and it was proven he didn't do it. All you hear is he did, even if the trial said other wise.
It was not proven that he didn't do it. Not at all. The jury said it wasn't completely conclusive that he did (that's the criteria). The jury in the second trial (civil) said that it was most likely that he did do it.

The criteria in a criminal trial is "beyond a shadow of a doubt". OJ had some doubt - not much, but apparently enough. The criteria in a civil trial is a "preponderance" of the evidence, which there apparently was. So, it's completely reasonable for people to say that OJ did it - most of the evidence says he did.
     
Dork.
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Aug 14, 2007, 02:39 PM
 
It may be over soon, anyway, without a trial. Will we be able to humanely put down this story?

Ron Mexico: Could Vick Plead Out This Week? - Deadspin
     
exca1ibur
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Aug 14, 2007, 04:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by wallinbl View Post
People have opinions - deal with it. In the opinion of most people, there is enough evidence to suggest that he most likely did it. Right now, it looks more likely that he did it than that he didn't do it. It's a reasonable bet to make. We don't bring charges on people at random - we gather evidence and determine whether charges are warranted. So, the fact that he's been charged means that there is evidence to say that he did it.
I have my opinion, as well, now you deal with it. The fact is he's been charged and hasn't had a defense. All I'm stating is the guy should be heard, what is the problem here? If he's pleads his case and is guilty, so be it. The guy has a right to have a fair trail like anyone else. Why is this a problem?

It was not proven that he didn't do it. Not at all. The jury said it wasn't completely conclusive that he did (that's the criteria). The jury in the second trial (civil) said that it was most likely that he did do it.
Wasn't proven he did? wasn't proven he didn't?
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Aug 15, 2007, 12:11 AM
 
Vick will be in the second remake of the Longest Yard.

Only this time, it's a reality show.
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