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kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 02:53 PM

“Every gay and lesbian here lives in fear, just pure fear, of being beaten or killed,” says Ahmad, a 34-year-old gay man, via telephone from his home in Baghdad. “Homosexuality is seen here as imported from the West and as the work of the devil.”

Life for gay and lesbian citizens in war-torn Iraq has become grave and is getting worse every day. While President Bush hails a new, “democratic” society, thousands of civilians are dying in a low-level civil war—and gays are being targeted just for being gay. The Badr Corps—the military arm of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI for short), the country’s most powerful Shiite political group—has launched a campaign of “sexual cleansing,” marshaling death squads to exterminate homosexuality.

Full Article: http://www.advocate.com/currentstory1_w_ektid36437.asp

It's very sad to see this happening in modern society. Especially after Bush's new puppet government is allowing - nay - making this happen.

Gee I wonder why? Maybe because the government was anti-gay before, then add Bush's republican stance on gays, bound to be a killer combo - literally.

Thank God I live in a country which allows me true freedoms, where I can be who I really am, and not live in fear of it!

Discuss.

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 02:55 PM

Gotta love this quote:

“Things were bad under Saddam for gays,” he says, “but not as bad as now. Then, no one feared for their lives. Now, you can be gotten rid of at any time.”

Mark Larr · Oct 25, 2006, 03:00 PM

Looks like some sort of rule in islam banning gayness.

But islam is soooooo good and peaceful.

But alas, keep your head in the sand and blame Bush.

RAILhead · Oct 25, 2006, 03:01 PM

How, exactly, is this Bush's fault?

RAILhead · Oct 25, 2006, 03:02 PM

Oh yeah, and:

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 03:05 PM

I'm not blaming bush, I'm just making a connection of anti-gayness in both governments.

I know this was happening well before Bush, but now it's worsening.

Millennium · Oct 25, 2006, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

It's very sad to see this happening in modern society. Especially after Bush's new puppet government is allowing - nay - making this happen.

The government of Iraq is making groups that are openly rebelling against it target gays? How exactly does this logic work? A few evil people want to install an evil government based on a perversion of a peaceful religion, and suddenly this is the fault of the existing government because it doesn't bend over and do what the insurgency tells them to do?

Dakar² · Oct 25, 2006, 03:07 PM

Bush's stance on gays has nothing to do with what islamic groups in Iraq are doing.

Sky Captain · Oct 25, 2006, 03:09 PM

In fact, you'll see nationwide gay marriage in America before you'll see the end of persecution of homosexuals in the Islamic world.

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 03:10 PM

Why is the US Governments troops not stopping this then? Why does Bush make no mention of these atrocities happening.

Bush outed Saddam in favour of these nuts. Which is the worse evil?

TETENAL · Oct 25, 2006, 03:10 PM

The situation for gays in the Islamic world is very bad, but it's bad enough for everybody else too.

Love, Lust and Passion: Sex and Taboos in the Islamic World - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

Ali al-Gundi, an Egyptian journalist, was driving his girlfriend home when he was stopped at a police checkpoint. He didn't have his driver's license with him, but it was 4 a.m. and he was in the company of an attractive woman. For the police, this was reason enough to handcuff Gundi and his girlfriend and take them to the police station. "On the way there, they threatened to beat us," says the 30-year-old. At the station, they took away his mobile phone and wallet and found an unused condom in his shirt pocket.
"They were already convinced that my girlfriend was a whore," says Gundi. The couple ended up behind bars, even after telling the police that they planned to get married in a few months. Only after the woman notified her father the next day were the two released from jail. For Gundi, one thing is certain: "If the officer who stopped us hadn't been so sexually frustrated, he would have let us go."

Dakar² · Oct 25, 2006, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Why is the US Governments troops not stopping this then?

Same reason they're not stopping roadside bombings?

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 03:11 PM

FWIW I'm not anti-Bush, I really could care less. I live in Canada where it's OK to be gay.

chabig · Oct 25, 2006, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

It's very sad to see this happening in modern society.

Modern society?

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Same reason they're not stopping roadside bombings?

Kinda of hard to stop things when you don't know they are going to happen. An organized group for exterminating gays on the other hand... well they can be tracked, especially when they are affiliated with the gov't.

Dakar² · Oct 25, 2006, 03:18 PM

Well, I guarantee the US doesn't want a rogue militia roaming the countryside executing people at random anymore than they want suicide bombers. The bottom line is they just don't have the ability to just stop it flat out.

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 03:22 PM

I wouldn't call them rogue when they have strong political ties.

Dakar² · Oct 25, 2006, 03:23 PM

Unless the current Iraqi administration condones them, I'll go with the term rogue.

RAILhead · Oct 25, 2006, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

FWIW I'm not anti-Bush, I really could care less. I live in Canada where it's OK to be gay.

You COULD care less, or you COULDN'T care less?

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 03:36 PM

I'm sorry I wasn't aware grammatical errors were part of the discussion.

TheWOAT · Oct 25, 2006, 03:40 PM

Jesus loves typos.

Rumor · Oct 25, 2006, 03:41 PM

Allah doesn't seem to love gays though.

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by TheWOAT

Jesus loves typos.

They may be a sin, but yes, he still loves them

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

Allah doesn't seem to love gays though.

Allah doesn't seem to like much of anything.

TheWOAT · Oct 25, 2006, 03:53 PM

Rakim Allah loves to rhyme over beats done by Eric B.

Doofy · Oct 25, 2006, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Thank God I live in a country which allows me true freedoms, where I can be who I really am, and not live in fear of it!

You know what I always wanted to be and had to forget about because they don't let you do that kind of thing here?

A lumberjack!

I'm oppressed.

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 04:05 PM

Perhaps you should have moved here then. We have plenty of lumberjacks

Millennium · Oct 25, 2006, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Kinda of hard to stop things when you don't know they are going to happen.

Agreed. But you lose me on the next part...

An organized group for exterminating gays on the other hand... well they can be tracked, especially when they are affiliated with the gov't.

One: what makes you think this group is affiliated with the government?
Two: if the military cannot track an organized group that kills members of opposing Islamic sects (such as many of the insurgent groups), then why would it be able to track an organized group that kills gays, particularly when these latter groups appear to be subsets of the former?

Dakar² · Oct 25, 2006, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

You know what I always wanted to be and had to forget about because they don't let you do that kind of thing here?

You were born a lumberjack?

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Millennium

Agreed. But you lose me on the next part...

One: what makes you think this group is affiliated with the government?
Two: if the military cannot track an organized group that kills members of opposing Islamic sects (such as many of the insurgent groups), then why would it be able to track an organized group that kills gays, particularly when these latter groups appear to be subsets of the former?

They are affiliated with political parties that formed the new government. Maybe I misread the article, but I was under the impression it was the current iraqi governments political parties whom had these 'rules' set forth.

If this isn't the case, and they are indeed rogues, then I suppose there isn't much anyone can do about it.

Zeeb · Oct 25, 2006, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Unless the current Iraqi administration condones them, I'll go with the term rogue.

They are part of the current Iraqi administration actually. The SCIRI and Badr Brigade participated in the Iraqi elections and I believe their members hold seats in the government.

It doesn't matter, there is no way Iraq isn't going to end up becoming an islamic theocracy. The only question is how oppressive will it turn out to be. In which case, just about everyone will be dragged out and with their throats slashed. Human life is completely insignificant when you're building a theocratic state.

Doofy · Oct 25, 2006, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

You were born a lumberjack?

Yes. Some people will deny this fact and say it's all in the upbringing, but they're just bigoted fools. I knew from a really early age that I liked chopping trees down. They told me it was wrong and that I should be hugging trees instead of trying to chop them down. You know what that does to a person, being told that they can't be themselves?

Zeeb · Oct 25, 2006, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Yes. Some people will deny this fact and say it's all in the upbringing, but they're just bigoted fools. I knew from a really early age that I liked chopping trees down. They told me it was wrong and that I should be hugging trees instead of trying to chop them down. You know what that does to a person, being told that they can't be themselves?

Don't worry, its probably just a phase. You'll grow out of it!

Dakar² · Oct 25, 2006, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Zeeb

They are part of the current Iraqi administration actually. The SCIRI and Badr Brigade participated in the Iraqi elections and I believe their members hold seats in the government.

It doesn't matter, there is no way Iraq isn't going to end up becoming an islamic theocracy. The only question is how oppressive will it turn out to be. In which case, just about everyone will be dragged out and with their throats slashed. Human life is completely insignificant when you're building a theocratic state.

If Bahrain really is the democracy it's made out to be, I wonder what we could learn from how they got there, and implement in Iraq's transition.

Doofy · Oct 25, 2006, 04:22 PM

Oh, on topic... ...(might as well)...

Anyone surprised? I mean, get a bunch of muslims running the place and teh gays get shot? Feel thankful that the Christian heritage (and don't deny it) in your countries allows you to be who you are without too much hassle.

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Yes. Some people will deny this fact and say it's all in the upbringing, but they're just bigoted fools. I knew from a really early age that I liked chopping trees down. They told me it was wrong and that I should be hugging trees instead of trying to chop them down. You know what that does to a person, being told that they can't be themselves?

This Post is COMPLETELY relevant. Cheers to you!

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Oh, on topic... ...(might as well)...

Anyone surprised? I mean, get a bunch of muslims running the place and teh gays get shot? Feel thankful that the Christian heritage (and don't deny it) in your countries allows you to be who you are without too much hassle.

Tell that to the 'so-called witches', and the blacks throughout history.

Let's face it, if it wasn't for State law, gays would be condemned, and god knows what would happen to us. Anything from "experimental tests" to killings, and protests condoning gay bashings. Oh wait, that's already happened because law is mixed with religion, which it should not be.

Dakar² · Oct 25, 2006, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Yes. Some people will deny this fact and say it's all in the upbringing, but they're just bigoted fools. I knew from a really early age that I liked chopping trees down. They told me it was wrong and that I should be hugging trees instead of trying to chop them down. You know what that does to a person, being told that they can't be themselves?

You need to join the religion of environmentalism for some profession-reorientation treatment.

Dakar² · Oct 25, 2006, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

This Post is COMPLETELY relevant. Cheers to you!

He was responding to me, lay off.

Doofy · Oct 25, 2006, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

This Post is COMPLETELY relevant. Cheers to you!

It's my way of telling you that gays don't have it too bad in the US. Yeah, they can't get married (neither can polygynists) but so what? In other words, stop your whining. At least you ain't getting dragged out of your home and hung.

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

It's my way of telling you that gays don't have it too bad in the US. Yeah, they can't get married (neither can polygynists) but so what? In other words, stop your whining. At least you ain't getting dragged out of your home and hung.

Well it's a good thing I live in Canada where I don't have to worry about being hung, AND I can get married, AND have equal rights and freedoms.

My point is this shouldn't be happening anywhere. Especially if it's linked to a gov't.

Doofy · Oct 25, 2006, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Tell that to the 'so-called witches', and the blacks throughout history.

Let's face it, if it wasn't for State law, gays would be condemned, and god knows what would happen to us. Anything from "experimental tests" to killings, and protests condoning gay bashings. Oh wait, that's already happened because law is mixed with religion, which it should not be.

Ummm... ...so let's see.

Slavery: Invented by atheist Africans. Abolished by Christians.
Witches: Inquisition started by a need to repel the muslims from Christian lands.

The law ain't mixed with religion one bit. If it was, I'd be able to have many, many wives (since I'm not a preacher). Can I legally have many wives? No. So hey, I'm actually more oppressed than you are, since you can have your gay marriage.

Society stops all of us from being ourselves in some way or another. Stop your whining and be glad you ain't been hung from the nearest mosque.

TheWOAT · Oct 25, 2006, 04:32 PM

Doesn't the Quran demand that gay men wear burqas?

Doofy · Oct 25, 2006, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

My point is this shouldn't be happening anywhere. Especially if it's linked to a gov't.

I agree...

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Well it's a good thing I live in Canada where I don't have to worry about being hung, AND I can get married, AND have equal rights and freedoms.

...but don't bang on about Canada being so free until I can move there and legally have eight wives.

Zeeb · Oct 25, 2006, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by TheWOAT

Doesn't the Quran demand that gay men wear burqas?

Only if we're wearing make-up. duh.

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 04:35 PM

Come on. You're telling me Christians didn't have slaves? ROTFL!

Anyways this is getting off topic.

kmkkid · Oct 25, 2006, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

I agree...

...but don't bang on about Canada being so free until I can move there and legally have eight wives.

Hey if a man wants to have 8 wives (his downfall) go ahead. I agree it should be legal. The polygamists can fight their own war, we fought ours.

zerroeffect · Oct 25, 2006, 06:18 PM

Yeah, that's great about the slaves. Good luck trying to prove that.

What's wrong with gay people that they should be so feared and rejected? As long as they aren't hurting anyone else by getting too gay and driving recklessly like Mel Gibson, I don't even pay attention to what other people are doing.

dcmacdaddy · Oct 25, 2006, 09:34 PM

<tasteless joke>
Hunting gays, huh? What do they taste like?
</tasteless joke>

RAILhead · Oct 25, 2006, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by TheWOAT

Doesn't the Quran demand that gay men wear burqas?

TEH WINNAR!!!!11!