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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Alternative Operating Systems > I Hate Windows Soooooooooooooooooooo Much

I Hate Windows Soooooooooooooooooooo Much
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l008com
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Nov 4, 2010, 11:07 PM
 
I finally upgraded my first generation Mac Pro's GPU. I replaced the 7300GT with an Apple 5770. Worked with two monitors right out of the box. Based on the reviews, I was a little nervous that I might have some setup issue, but nope. Everything was golden. Didn't take me long to realize that really nothing uses OpenCL, so I just spend all this money to upgrade my GPU so I could have faster Exposé animation. Ugh.

Well I currently boot my MBP into Win 7 to play Grand Theft Auto (SA & VC). That's on a 320m. Soooo getting that running on this 5770 should really kick ass. And I even have a separate drive just for bootcamp, I don't have to mess with partitions. It had an old install of XP on it so I just reformatted and did a clean install of WIndows 7. This is what I run on my MacBook Pro and it's actually surprisingly stable. Not so on the Mac Pro. I installed Windows 7, six times. Every time, it ran ok until I installed bootcamp. Then, upon reboot, I'd get the blue screen O' death after no more than 5 minutes. I tried installing ATi drivers first. I tried running windows update first. I tried 3.0 bootcamp. Then 3.0 + 3.1 then rebooting. I tried "full" 3.1 bootcamp. No mater what I do, this machine gets BSOD whenever I try to run windows 7. I only wanted it for games, it's not like I was going to try to do real work on it. I have a bunch of VM's I use for website testing. This was just for games. And it was such a basic setup.

I'm really not even looking for help with this thread, just talking about how much I hate windows. Why would you ever use windows by choice??? If you have any really easy solutions, I'll give it a shot. But I have no intention of doing any in-depth windows troubleshooting. I'll just keep on using my laptop for games. I use it connected to my TV anyway so it's not a big issue.
     
ghporter
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Nov 5, 2010, 08:06 AM
 
The advantages of the "Windows works on almost anything" concept include that it "works on almost anything." Lots and lots of options for hardware variation, including (maybe especially) the graphics subsystem. The major disadvantage of the concept is that, in order to work on all that hardware, Windows needs appropriate drivers-and oh by the way Microsoft keeps changing the driver structure with each new version of Windows. Your problem sounds very much like a driver issue-the drivers you've tried screw things up-while the default driver that the Win7 installer provided seems to work.

If you feel like installing Win7 again, keep the video driver it installs by default, and just install the Boot Camp drivers you "need," like the network, keyboard and maybe Bluetooth drivers.

I am really disappointed in hearing that Apple's Win7 graphics drivers bork an otherwise running install, but I'm even more disappointed that ATI's drivers do so too.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 5, 2010, 01:17 PM
 
Without ATi drivers, I can't even use the native resolution of my screens though.
     
ghporter
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Nov 5, 2010, 04:33 PM
 
Oh. That sucks then. Have you checked the ATI forums? They may have something about the issue you're encountering, and hopefully a fix. But first get all the other appropriate drivers installed and checked with the installer's default driver in place. Who knows-it may be that some driver that you don't really need was the actual culprit, and it didn't show up until you added the ATI driver.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
seanc
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Nov 5, 2010, 05:40 PM
 
So hang on a moment, did you try *only* the AMD drivers and then reboot - no Bootcamp drivers?
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 5, 2010, 05:51 PM
 
I tried just the bootcamp drivers and that definitely caused BSOD. I tried ATi drivers... but i don't remember if I installed bootcamp right after that, so I don't recall if ATi drivers ALONE caused crashes or not. But I can tell in a while, I did a base install of win 7, installed chrome and windows updates. Now i'm going to save an ISO of the drive so I can just restore and try things again. WinClone I think the app is called.
     
seanc
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Nov 5, 2010, 06:02 PM
 
Yep, Winclone is what you need.

I reckon you might get away with the AMD drivers and no bootcamp drivers.
There's not much you should need (in my opinion, I don't have a MacPro) the bootcamp drivers for, apart from perhaps keyboard hotkeys.
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 5, 2010, 06:35 PM
 
So I installed the ATi drivers and NOT the bootcamp drivers. Seems to be running ok. So something with bootcamp is no good. I don't really feel like going through 20 hours of trial and error to see which driver is breaking... But there are some things I could really use, like my keyboard drivers. Ill probably see if I can even get my games working, and if so, then work on some of these rough edges.
     
ghporter
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Nov 5, 2010, 06:42 PM
 
Winclone that working partition! That will save you tons of time figuring out whether or not various BC drivers work. I'd use Winclone before even trying the keyboard driver. Once you have a working backup, then you can try one driver at a time, starting with the keyboard driver, then probably network drivers, with a new backup after every proven successful driver installation. Make sure you try the system out pretty thoroughly before you decide it works, but the whole process should be pretty smooth and quick.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 5, 2010, 08:10 PM
 
I'm getting nowhere fast here. The individual drivers in the bootcamp image, all have names that mean nothing to me. I have no idea what I should install and what I shouldn't. Some of them say they can't run individually, you have to run them from the main setup.exe , and there are no options from within that installer, it's an all-or-none installer. I really need the bootcamp 'startup disk' control panel, and at least the number pad, audio, and eject buttons on my keyboard. Plus the sole purpose of all this is gaming, so if there are drivers for the logic board that are faster than windows default, that would be nice too. This is such a load of crap.
     
seanc
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Nov 5, 2010, 08:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
  • I really need the bootcamp 'startup disk' control panel
  • the number pad,
  • audio, and eject buttons on my keyboard
  • drivers for the logic board that are faster than windows default
OK.
So, what keyboard? Apple I take it. Did they not release a separate driver pack?
The 'drivers' for the logic board are most likely the disk controller drivers. Anyone know what chipset is in this MacPro?
Startup disk & special buttons will be more tricky.
     
seanc
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Nov 5, 2010, 09:08 PM
 
Right, I've figured it out where the files are you need.
I haven't tested this AT ALL.

You need 7zip.
Extract the contents of the Bootcamp update using 7zip.

While in the 7zip file manager, browse to "PCW_CAB_BootCamp"
Inside here, is the Bootcamp control panel and a few drivers. AppleControlPanel.exe is in here, it contains the startup disk control panel. Not sure if it will work without registering some drivers.

Next, move to folder BootCamp31ToBootCamp303.
You probably want some of the below, there is a DPInst.exe or setup.exe in some packages which may install the drivers for you, note if some bits are working, you probably don't want to bother with the Apple drivers.

Networking:
Binary.AtherosWin7_Bin
Binary.BroadcomEthernet_Bin
Binary.intel_ethernet_Bin
Binary.marvell_ethernet_Bin

Audio:
Binary.Cirrus_Audio_Bin
Binary.Realtek_Bin
Binary.Sigmatel_Bin

Keyboard:
Binary.Keyboard_Bin

Mass storage/controller drivers:
Possibly - Binary.crystal_beach_Bin

Happy experimenting!
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 5, 2010, 09:14 PM
 
Yeah thanks for the help but... I'm not doing that. I don't need this working THAT bad.
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 6, 2010, 12:03 AM
 
Is ther a way to see what caused the BSOD? Its only up for like half a second before it auto-reboots, so I can't read what it says to get any hints. But the more I try to use this as-is, the more clear it is that I need to install bootcamp. Ugh.
     
seanc
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Nov 6, 2010, 06:42 AM
 
You have the list of stuff to get the bits you need installed.
It may look scary and complicated, but it's not.

Those 'files' are just containers, 7zip opens them like regular archives, they just don't have an extension on them.

The BSOD minidumps should be in
Code:
C:\Windows\Minidump
Upload them to a site somewhere and we can read them.
Does it come up after windows has booted, or during the windows boot process?
     
ghporter
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Nov 6, 2010, 07:12 AM
 
Since this thread has evolved into being about Windows, not something about the Mac Pro, I'm going to move it to the Alt OS forum.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Maflynn
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Nov 6, 2010, 08:59 AM
 
I think win7 has caught up to OSX in a lot of respects, but yet it still can be so frustrating.

For instance, in my windows 7 partition, my computer cannot sleep. I've check powercfg, device manager, the bios and everything is as it should be. Yet it will not go into sleep mode. In OSX on the same computer, it easily goes into sleep mode.

Its a core i7 hackintosh. To be honest, it was easier getting OSX configured and running then trying to hash this sleep issue
~Mike
     
Wiskedjak
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Nov 6, 2010, 09:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
I'm really not even looking for help with this thread, just talking about how much I hate windows. Why would you ever use windows by choice???
Hmmmm ... seems to me as though your trouble is with the Mac Pro not having the right drivers from Apple or ATI more so than with Windows.
     
ghporter
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Nov 6, 2010, 11:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Hmmmm ... seems to me as though your trouble is with the Mac Pro not having the right drivers from Apple or ATI more so than with Windows.
I see it as the other way around. Apple has not provided the right drivers for the Mac Pro, and the drivers they did provide are causing conflicts-and BSODs-with the ATI drivers. It's not a Mac Pro problem, but a Windows driver version problem. It's still on Apple's shoulders-their drivers should NOT cause the Windows equivalent of kernel panics.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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Nov 6, 2010, 12:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I see it as the other way around. Apple has not provided the right drivers for the Mac Pro, and the drivers they did provide are causing conflicts-and BSODs-with the ATI drivers. It's not a Mac Pro problem, but a Windows driver version problem. It's still on Apple's shoulders-their drivers should NOT cause the Windows equivalent of kernel panics.
I see. The problem is being caused by the drivers developed by Apple for the Mac Pro?
     
seanc
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Nov 6, 2010, 01:49 PM
 
What we don't know, is what happens when the Bootcamp 3.1 drivers are used with the original 7300GT and Windows 7. It could just be the outdated AMD drivers get upset with the 5770.
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 6, 2010, 01:49 PM
 
Here I took three dumps for you

http://johnmasone.com/bsod.zip

And this is a windows problem, because windows HAS driver problems and crashes in general. Go install OS X on a Mac. A "driver issue" on OS X means you're not getting all of your printer's advanced options.
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 6, 2010, 02:02 PM
 
One of the things I tried was installing bootcamp, then installing up to date 5770 drivers before doing the reboot. No change. Also seanc add more ram to your macbook!
     
seanc
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Nov 6, 2010, 02:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
One of the things I tried was installing bootcamp, then installing up to date 5770 drivers before doing the reboot. No change. Also seanc add more ram to your macbook!
The MacBook isn't doing anything right now.
MacBook Pro has 4GB.

You mis-understood my question.
I want to know if the Bootcamp 3.1 drivers work OK with the nVidia 7300GT installed. If it does, it shows that the ATI drivers supplied with the 3.1 update are not compatible with the AMD 5770.

If it still doesn't work with the 7300GT, we have a problem with the Bootcamp 3.1 update and the MacPro - unlikely though.
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 6, 2010, 02:12 PM
 
I understood your question. But it's not one we're going to find out the answer to because I'm not going to go reinstall my old video card. Furthermore, having installed the ATi drivers after the bootcamp drivers, in any sane OS, would mean that my system isn't running the bootcamp ati drivers, and is still getting BSODs.
     
seanc
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Nov 6, 2010, 02:16 PM
 
Yes, that would be a sane theory, but things don't always work that way.

So are you still having BSODs at the moment?
If so, do this for me:
Right click on Computer, click Properties.
Click Advanced System Settings in the right hand toolbar.
Under Startup and Recovery, click Settings...
Uncheck 'Automatically restart'.

Now when it BSODs, it will display the BSOD indefinitely and you can tell me what the error is.
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 6, 2010, 02:17 PM
 
I just posted three BSOD dumps. Can't you tell from them?
     
seanc
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Nov 6, 2010, 02:23 PM
 
Not always - anyway, I'm still waiting for the Symbols to download from Microsoft.
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 6, 2010, 02:24 PM
 
I don't know what that means... And I didn't see anything on the screen that was a hint at all when I made those three bsod's. Just a bunch of numbers.
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 6, 2010, 02:25 PM
 
Here's something interesting that happened too. I started up in safe mode with networking. Then just for the hell of it, I ran apple software update. And I got an update for Bootcamp, for a 13" macbook pro! My computer doesn't know what kind of computer it is. This is most strange.
     
seanc
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Nov 6, 2010, 02:27 PM
 
It will always say something, such as IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL and those numbers and letters do actually mean something.
Sometimes it will reference a driver, such as ati2mag.sys (ATI driver).
     
seanc
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Nov 6, 2010, 03:25 PM
 
OK.
Your problem is the Apple HFS driver - AppleHFS.sys

Disable the Apple HFS driver. I think disabling the AppleMNT.sys driver will stop AppleHFS.sys from being loaded.
The consequence of this is that you won't be able to access your Mac partition from Windows.

Right click on Computer, click Properties, click Device Manager.
Go to the view menu, select show hidden devices.
Under non-plug and play devices, double click AppleMNT.
On the driver tab, click stop and change the startup type to disabled.

Reboot.

If you double click your OS X partition in Computer, before you reboot, you'll cause a BSOD.
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 6, 2010, 03:27 PM
 
. . . Is now a good time to tell you my mac volume is a SoftRAID stripe? It didn't occur to me that that could be causing the problem. But windows is dumb so that makes sense. But yeah I could care less if windows can see my mac volume, I just want to play grand theft auto with maximum settings.
     
seanc
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Nov 6, 2010, 03:30 PM
 
Not sure what Windows would do with a HFS software striped raid.
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 6, 2010, 03:39 PM
 
I'm in the middle of some stuff so check back tonight to see if your solution fixed the problem.

And I do know what windows would do with an HFS software striped raid... BSOD.
     
seanc
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Nov 6, 2010, 03:41 PM
 
My MBP BSOD on me while browsing my OS X partition a few weeks ago.
Same driver, same problem.

It's just buggy.
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 6, 2010, 06:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by seanc View Post
OK.
Your problem is the Apple HFS driver - AppleHFS.sys

Disable the Apple HFS driver. I think disabling the AppleMNT.sys driver will stop AppleHFS.sys from being loaded.
The consequence of this is that you won't be able to access your Mac partition from Windows.

Right click on Computer, click Properties, click Device Manager.
Go to the view menu, select show hidden devices.
Under non-plug and play devices, double click AppleMNT.
On the driver tab, click stop and change the startup type to disabled.

Reboot.

If you double click your OS X partition in Computer, before you reboot, you'll cause a BSOD.
There are no items in the "non-plug and play devices" menu that start with "Apple"
Yes I selected show hidden devices. I was booted into safe mode though. I can't NOT boot into safemode, because the system will crash long before I could make it to the device manager to disable this thing.
     
Wiskedjak
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Nov 6, 2010, 06:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
And this is a windows problem, because windows HAS driver problems and crashes in general. Go install OS X on a Mac. A "driver issue" on OS X means you're not getting all of your printer's advanced options.
Most other Windows hardware manufacturers don't have too much trouble writing stable drivers. But, if you really hate Windows so much, don't install it.
     
seanc
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Nov 6, 2010, 06:59 PM
 
Should be


If not, visit
Code:
C:\Windows\System32\drivers
Rename AppleHFS.sys to AppleHFS.sys.old and AppleMNT.sys to AppleMNT.sys.old while in Safe Mode.
This will mean that the OS can't find it and won't load it.

I take you currently have "Bootcamp" installed?
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 6, 2010, 07:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by seanc View Post
Should be


If not, visit
Code:
C:\Windows\System32\drivers
Rename AppleHFS.sys to AppleHFS.sys.old and AppleMNT.sys to AppleMNT.sys.old while in Safe Mode.
This will mean that the OS can't find it and won't load it.

I take you currently have "Bootcamp" installed?
Yes my list does not look like your list. Yes I have bootcamp 3.0 installed. I'll rename those files next time I try then see what happens. Will I have to rename them again when I upgrade to bootcamp 3.1? Do I have to boot with the shift key held down to turn off extensions?
     
seanc
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Nov 6, 2010, 07:15 PM
 
You may have to rename them again if you upgrade to bootcamp 3.1.
Booting with extensions off - that's OS X only.
Safe Mode is the Windows equivalent.
     
Cronocide
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Nov 7, 2010, 12:03 AM
 
Not a lot of help here, but Windows XP SP3 was the last "stable" release of the windows OS. If you HAVE to run that cruddy operating system, that is the version to use.
It's 10 o'clock. Do you know where YOUR source code is?
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 7, 2010, 04:50 PM
 
Actually I tried getting XP going on my laptop and it just would not work. Tried and tried and tried. Finally I gave up and tried windows 7, and on my laptop, that has actually worked pretty well. Well for windows anyway.
     
Wiskedjak
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Nov 7, 2010, 07:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
Actually I tried getting XP going on my laptop and it just would not work. Tried and tried and tried. Finally I gave up and tried windows 7, and on my laptop, that has actually worked pretty well. Well for windows anyway.
Yep, the problem can't possibly be your laptop ...
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 7, 2010, 07:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Yep, the problem can't possibly be your laptop ...
Hmmmm brand new macbook pro, or 9 year old operating system. . . . tough call.
     
seanc
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Nov 8, 2010, 07:09 PM
 
Any news?
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 8, 2010, 09:31 PM
 
Yeah renaming those files seems to have worked. I haven't had a lot of time to play around with it, but so far, seems like everything is running smoothly. Some day when I have more time to waste, I'll run the updates, disable those drivers again, and see if I can really run my games at crazy maximum settings.
     
   
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