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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Santorum thinks state bans on contraceptives are constitutional

Santorum thinks state bans on contraceptives are constitutional (Page 2)
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SpaceMonkey
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Jan 5, 2012, 05:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
The problem is though, the provisions of the Constitution aren't absolute, nor has there ever been universal agreement as to their interpretation, even in the era of the Founding.
This is the part that Doofy, and others, consistently fail to acknowledge.

What James Madison and Thomas Jefferson had to say about their interpretation of the Constitution is not the final word. The Constitution was drafted, unveiled, and then immediately bickered over in increasingly vitriolic and partisan disputes right through the deaths of the first "founding" generation. And these were people who were in the same room with each other when it was actually drafted, aside from several of the notables like Jefferson who were off in Europe, which would also color their interpretation. The idea of using the general welfare clause as a club to basically enable the federal government to do whatever you want it to do goes right back to Alexander Hamilton. It's not some modern leftist ploy to legitimize welfare.

The seemingly concrete, limited powers of the federal government spelled out in the Constitution come with several of those kinds of qualifiers, which, like the general welfare clause, were intentionally kept vague to paper over deep and legimate disagreements that existed in the 1780s and continue to this day. So to that extent, the idea of the Constitution as something to simply read and apply strictly is absolutely, factually, BS. Even Scalia understands that when he constantly tries to divine "original intent." Implicit in that is the understanding that it's not strictly the words on the page that are important, it's the intent. And the intent is perpetually in dispute.

But, whatever, let Doofy have his fun lecturing Americans.
( Last edited by SpaceMonkey; Jan 5, 2012 at 05:33 PM. )

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Shaddim
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Jan 5, 2012, 06:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
As I said before. Ron Paul is the only true small government conservative among the Republican candidates.

All the other Republican candidates are big government conservatives or not conservative at all.
He's the only traditional conservative, the rest are neo-cons (like Obama). Well, Huntsman may qualify, but his chances of getting the nomination are lower than Paul's.
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hyteckit
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Jan 5, 2012, 09:53 PM
 
Santorum doesn't support a state's right to legalize pot, not even for medical use.

So much for states' rights.

When questioned by a student wondering why conservatives tend to favor states' rights except in the case of medical marijuana, Santorum confessed that he does not know his medical cannabis laws.
Rick Santorum Unclear On Medical Marijuana Laws
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
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2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
Doofy
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Jan 6, 2012, 04:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
But, whatever, let Doofy have his fun lecturing Americans.
Hey, Monkeyboy, how's about you actually read threads sometime? Biggie asked me a question. I answered. No lecture involved.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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turtle777
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Jan 6, 2012, 08:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Hey, Monkeyboy
Reported for personal attack... oh, wait, never mind

-t
     
SpaceMonkey
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Jan 6, 2012, 09:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Hey, Monkeyboy, how's about you actually read threads sometime? Biggie asked me a question. I answered. No lecture involved.
Don't call me Monkeyboy.

His question was in response to your usual lecture about how we haven't read our own constitution. Don't deny that's what you enjoy doing. It's your usual PW Lounge shtick, just like my usual shtick is being a humorless PITA.

Before Big Mac ever entered the thread:

Originally Posted by Doofy
Can someone please show me the bit in the US Constitution Manifesto which says that taxpayers (some of whom won't be getting any) should be forced by the federal government to pay for people to get some?

Pretty please?

Or are we all just talking bollocks again and throwing around the word "unconstitutional" at anyone who disagrees with us? Because that'd be unconstitutional, wouldn't it?
Originally Posted by Doofy
Pay attention. All he said was that he thinks it's not the federal government's choice, and should be left to the states themselves to decide. Which is a 100% constitutionally correct viewpoint, as far as federal government goes.

F me. Has anyone actually read the US Constitution Manifesto?
Originally Posted by Doofy
So anyway, since we're on the subject of lefties not having read the US Constitution Manifesto, I was having a conversation with someone earlier and discovered something...
Turns out that welfare isn't constitutional.
Wonder if there'll be any Dems along soon to whine about that?

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Doofy
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Jan 6, 2012, 10:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Don't call me Monkeyboy.
It's better than what I want to call you, believe me.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
OldManMac
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Jan 6, 2012, 10:33 AM
 
A quick refresher on Santorum, and why he's a flash in the pan.

Rick Santorum 2012 bid haunted by landslide 2006 loss - Carrie Budoff Brown - POLITICO.com
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turtle777
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Jan 6, 2012, 12:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
It's better than what I want to call you, believe me.
SpaceMonkeyBoy ?

-t
     
lpkmckenna  (op)
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Jan 6, 2012, 01:25 PM
 
I thought Santorum was an @sshole, but I didn't think he was as big an @sshole as this:

Here's a fresh quote from the latest non-Romney front-runner in the GOP presidential race. "This dividing of America [between] 99-1," Rick Santorum said this morning in New Hampshire, "It's anybody that makes money and pays taxes and everybody who doesn't. That's the 99-1."

The Atlantic: The GOP's Weird Obsession With Poor People Not Paying Enough Taxes.
     
SpaceMonkey
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Jan 6, 2012, 03:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
It's better than what I want to call you, believe me.
PM me if you want to share and not be passive-aggressive about it.

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Doofy
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Jan 6, 2012, 04:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
PM me if you want to share and not be passive-aggressive about it.
I think everyone can figure it out.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
SpaceMonkey
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Jan 6, 2012, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I think everyone can figure it out.
I can't. There are so many possibilities. Genius, expert, smarty-pants, etc....

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olePigeon
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Jan 6, 2012, 07:04 PM
 
While I don't think it's necessarily unconstitutional, I agree that the Federal Government doesn't have to pay for contraception. However, I don't mind paying a little more in taxes to help prevent unwanted pregnancies and an increased burden on our welfare system.

Also, as much as I despise the man and his opinion of the matter, I do agree with Santorum that a State should be allowed to ban whatever they want, provided it doesn't violate the Constitution.

It's like Arkansas, Kansas, Texas, Mississippi, Missouri, Ohio, etc. If they want to teach their kids how to be stupid, fine, let them, but don't expect major universities (even those in their own state) to accept any of their kids for admission knowing that their students think the world was created 6000 years ago.
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Uncle Skeleton
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Jan 6, 2012, 07:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
It's like Arkansas, Kansas, Texas, Mississippi, Missouri, Ohio, etc. If they want to teach their kids how to be stupid, fine, let them, but don't expect major universities (even those in their own state) to accept any of their kids for admission knowing that their students think the world was created 6000 years ago.
It wouldn't be too long though, before they'd stop bearing the consequences. There's a certain irrational osmosis to human behavior. Being objectively correct only takes one so far.
     
subego
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Jan 6, 2012, 07:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
It's like Arkansas, Kansas, Texas, Mississippi, Missouri, Ohio, etc. If they want to teach their kids how to be stupid, fine, let them, but don't expect major universities (even those in their own state) to accept any of their kids for admission knowing that their students think the world was created 6000 years ago.
I agree with this philosophically, but as a practical matter, I find it hard to pull the trigger on all those kids.
     
Chongo
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Jan 6, 2012, 11:27 PM
 
With these side effect, it's a wonder OC's are on the market at all.
Estrogen and Progestin (Oral Contraceptives): MedlinePlus Drug Information
What side effects can this medication cause?
Oral contraceptives may cause side effects. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away:
nausea

vomiting

stomach cramps or bloating

diarrhea

constipation

gingivitis (swelling of the gum tissue)

increased or decreased appetite

weight gain or weight loss

brown or black skin patches

acne

hair growth in unusual places

bleeding or spotting between menstrual periods

changes in menstrual flow

painful or missed periods

breast tenderness, enlargement, or discharge

swelling, redness, irritation, burning, or itching of the vagina

white vaginal discharge

Some side effects can be serious. The following symptoms are uncommon, but if you experience any of them, call your doctor immediately:
severe headache

severe vomiting

speech problems

dizziness or faintness

weakness or numbness of an arm or leg

crushing chest pain or chest heaviness

coughing up blood

shortness of breath

pain, warmth, or heaviness in the back of the lower leg

partial or complete loss of vision

double vision

bulging eyes

severe stomach pain

yellowing of the skin or eyes

loss of appetite

extreme tiredness, weakness, or lack of energy

fever

dark-colored urine

light-colored stool

swelling of the hands, feet, ankles or lower legs

depression, especially if you also have trouble sleeping, tiredness, loss of energy, or other mood changes

unusual bleeding

rash

menstrual bleeding that is unusually heavy or that lasts for longer than 7 days in a row

Oral contraceptives may increase the chance that you will develop liver tumors. These tumors are not a form of cancer, but they can break and cause serious bleeding inside the body. Oral contraceptives may also increase the chance that you will develop breast or liver cancer, or have a heart attack, a stroke, or a serious blood clot. Talk to your doctor about the risks of using oral contraceptives.

Oral contraceptives may cause other side effects. Call your doctor if you have any unusual problems while taking this medication.

If you experience a serious side effect, you or your doctor may send a report to the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) MedWatch Adverse Event Reporting program online [at http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch] or by phone [1-800-332-1088].
     
lpkmckenna  (op)
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Jan 7, 2012, 03:23 AM
 
Chongo, virtually all medications have potential side effects. Whatever point you thought you were making, it's irrelevant.
     
subego
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Jan 7, 2012, 03:37 AM
 
I'm on a medication that has caused people to have all their skin fall off. All of it. In big, giant sheets.

That's fatal BTW.
     
subego
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Jan 7, 2012, 03:44 AM
 
Most forms of birth control contain horse whiz.

     
 
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