[hadocon]

Hey gang!

I was telling a friend about my GF today who I am considering moving in with. The issue here is that I am atheist and she is hella Roman Catholic.

So far I have not seen any issues. I'm not a militant atheist and so far she's not tried to convert me. I can see how it can get complicated though as she is beholden to JC and his homies rules and laws which means she could not co-habitate with me without being married, and it's basically illegal for her to use birth control (which I am a HUGE fan of). I'm sure there are other things to think about as well.

Can any of you chime in with experience, stories, tips, incantations and hagiographic insights?


Holla atcha boy!

Noam Say'n ?

peace.

[subego]

Relationships are hard. Incompatibilities like this make it harder.

The more difficult a relationship is going to be, the better your mate needs to be, because you're going to have just that much more shit to put-up with.

[Sealobo]

i was in a similar situation few years ago. i've never been religious, and this ex i was with was catholic.

I spent a few years converting her. it was a great success. her mom was freaken pissed that her daughter stopped attending church. lol~

[Person Man]

My best friend from college is Catholic, and his wife is Buddhist (she is from Taiwan). I was the best man at their wedding.

On the day of the wedding rehearsal, when we met the Catholic priest who was going to marry them, he said, "Okay, the bride is Buddhist, the groom is Catholic and the best man is Greek Orthodox. This should be interesting!"

[imitchellg5]

Work it out with her instead of asking the internet.

[Athens]

Don't be against religion around her and ask her not to be pro religion around you and things should work good

BTW True love beats all problems, so if its meant to be it will work out.

[hadocon]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Work it out with her instead of asking the internet.

I don't have anything to "work out" - we're both highly educated folks who value each other's perspectives. I figured that I would get some free insight from other's who might be in a similar situation to me and holy shiat, the internet seems like a good place to accomplish this.

Actually I do have something to work out... My d1ck.


Hooah!

[hadocon]

Originally Posted by Athens 

BTW True love beats all problems, so if its meant to be it will work out.

True words my friend! My affection for her would make it not that bog of a deal to "turn Catholic" if that's what she wanted me to do (no indication she does).

Right now the hardest part of the situation is my


Hoooooo!

[Athens]

She shouldn't have to convert for you and you shouldn't have to convert for her, falling in love should be about falling love with the person at hand, not what they could be with a little work.

[brassplayersrock²]

If things work out, then they do; if not, then they don't.

[Big Mac]

The big question is are you going to raise your many children Catholic or Atheist? Those intermarriages can be really complicated.

Seriously though, you've got some big issues to work out. Make sure you're on the same page before taking things to the next level.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Work it out with her instead of asking the internet.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[Thorzdad]

It can work out. I'm a seriously lapsed Catholic. As in, haven't been to mass (excepting funerals and weddings) since junior high, and probably doesn't really believe any of the stuff in that book, lapsed. My wife, is a very devout, goes to church every Sunday, semi-evangelical Christian. We've been married 30 years. The key, of course, is accepting people for who they are and not expecting to change them to your point of view. That's part of that whole "love and honor" thing.

[ort888]

My wife is catholic and I'm (more or less) an atheist.

It hasn't really been a problem at all until recently.... because she wants to send our kid to Catholic school and I'm not very fond of the idea.

We'll work it out, it's not a big deal, but it is a pretty large life decision that we don't agree on and are going to have to work through.

[hadocon]

I appreciate everyone's comments on this matter. Thank you!

[Atheist]

I'm skeptical of these kind of relationships. I'm agnostic atheist and my partner has his own home-grown belief system. (He believes there is some kind of order and purpose to the universe). If my partner were a strict follower of a specific religious movement I don't think it would have worked out.

The key is to be very open and honest with your expectations. Are either one of you going to try to convert the other? Will you be expected to attend mass? You mention that she can't co-habitate because of her beliefs but then also say you are considering moving in. Does that imply some sort of engagement?

In my experience when a non-believer and a believer are married and have kids, the kids are invariably raised in the believer's faith. If you're okay with that then go for it.

[andi*pandi]

It depends on how Catholic she is. If she really has a serious thing against cohabitating and birth control, are those dealbreakers? Are you ok with a Catholic marriage? What if the priest makes you promise the kids will be raised Catholic?

I'm Catholic, my spouse is not... but I'm not very hard-line about it.

[The Final Dakar]

I'm a little confused. You're considering co-habitating with a woman who it sounds like won't co-habitate unless you're married?

[Big Mac]

Yeah, I didn't really get that either but that's between hadocon and his girlfriend.

[The Final Dakar]

Considering that's what the thread seems to be about, not really.

[Big Mac]

True dat.

[smacintush]

Personally, I find the subject of GOD far too important to compromise on. If she were merely a believer who isn't very serious that would be one thing, but a serious Catholic?

[Phileas]

My mom is Jewish, my dad is Catholic. They've been very happily married for over 35 years.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

My mom is Jewish, my dad is Catholic. They've been very happily married for over 35 years.

To what degree did their faith dictate their lives? Did they impose religion on you and your siblings?

[brassplayersrock²]

Probably went something along the lines of "children, you guys get to choose either the religion that killed Jesus, or the religion that replaced Pagan holidays with their own so they could become the dominant religion by force. You have a day to decide, good luck!"

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

To what degree did their faith dictate their lives? Did they impose religion on you and your siblings?

And which religion if either?

I spoke to someone recently who is friends with a family that raised one child Jewish and the other Catholic. Very odd.

[CollinG3G4]

Originally Posted by hadocon 

and it's basically illegal for her to use birth control

Don't move in together unless you plan to get married.

[brassplayersrock²]

For just her to use birth control, or for you too? So what if you can't go bare boned? Makes you look more caring.

[lpkmckenna]

Here's my opinion: if she agrees with the Vatican position on birth control, break up with her. That's the dipstick reading that identifies who the normal Catholics are and who the crazy Catholics are.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Here's my opinion: if she agrees with the Vatican position on birth control, break up with her. That's the dipstick reading that identifies who the normal Catholics are and who the crazy Catholics are.

People are entitled to their own opinions, thats the part about not trying to change each other. If she agrees with the Vatican's position on birth control and he does not, as long as they both accept that about each other I don't see a issue...

[Big Mac]

Well it becomes an issue if she truly believes in the Vatican position and will refuse any form of birth control. He's already said he's a big birth control proponent.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

To what degree did their faith dictate their lives? Did they impose religion on you and your siblings?

It was kind of awesome, when I was a kid, because there were more family celebrations. I never saw anything strange about going to church one weekend, to the temple the next. It was kind of infrequent at the best of times.

My parents were/are very relaxed people. I grew up believing that all religions are just men's way to explain the mystery of existence and that nobody owns a monopoly on the truth.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by hadocon 

we're both highly educated folks who value each other's perspectives.

My affection for her would make it not that bog of a deal to "turn Catholic" if that's what she wanted me to do

I am supposed to be Roman Catholic but I generally find people who are religious need their little psychological crutch to get by so I don't bother to smash their delusions with rational thinking. Its easier for everyone that way.

If you can leave her be on this subject then I don't see the point of this thread.
I also wouldn't compromise myself like you by converting to something I don't believe in. Its hypocritical and if a girl wanted to be with me then she should respect my belief system the way I do hers.

My kids can have the Easter Bunny, Santa, and the Tooth Fairy. A whitewashed secularized Judeo-Christian foundation just like most upper middle class city kids. They can go through the motions without drinking the kool-aid.

Originally Posted by ort888 

It hasn't really been a problem at all until recently.... because she wants to send our kid to Catholic school and I'm not very fond of the idea.

We'll work it out, it's not a big deal, but it is a pretty large life decision that we don't agree on and are going to have to work through.

Don't cheap out on your kid's education. Public schools suck. People who come out of them receive inferior educations. If you don't want to send them to a Catholic school then find the most expensive private secular grade school in your area. She'll shut up about Parochial schools if your kids are promised more opportunities and a brighter future than your friends' children.

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

So what if you can't go bare boned?

That right there would defeat the main benefit of a monogamous relationship

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

It was kind of awesome, when I was a kid, because there were more family celebrations. I never saw anything strange about going to church one weekend, to the temple the next. It was kind of infrequent at the best of times.

My parents were/are very relaxed people. I grew up believing that all religions are just men's way to explain the mystery of existence and that nobody owns a monopoly on the truth.

My family was semi religious too and didn't ram it down my throats and pretty much learned the same thing. Its funny what one decides with out interference. I mean being able to really make the choice vs having the choice made for you.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious 

That right there would defeat the main benefit of a monogamous relationship

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

That's the dipstick reading that identifies who the normal Catholics are and who the crazy Catholics are.

[besson3c]

The secret of all relationships is compromise, so maybe you should agree to believe in God for half the week, and your GF agree to not for the other half?

You're welcome.

[Chongo]

Bottom line, if you want to make your life a lot less complicated, find yourself an atheist girlfriend. Although some do, mixed marriages/relationships rarely succeed.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Bottom line, if you want to make your life a lot less complicated, find yourself an atheist girlfriend. Although some do, mixed marriages/relationships rarely succeed.

No need to go hardline. I'm sure an agnostic would work as well.

But in reality, it's not about religion so much as level of devotion to it. And this chick sounds devoted.

[andi*pandi]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

I grew up believing that all religions are just men's way to explain the mystery of existence and that nobody owns a monopoly on the truth.

I'm totally stealing that. It is much better than the "Thunderdome: Two Religions Enter, One Leaves" scenario. I have toyed with the idea of Sunday School since my kid has asked about stuff, but I know the MIL would then counter with Hebrew school. She wants a bar mitzvah for him.

We have lots of holidays in our house.

[Big Mac]

It's always surprising to see how a couple can get into a serious relationship if there is no general agreement between them on some of the biggest questions in life. I whole-heartedly agree with Chongo's most recent post. At the very least it's unfair to do that to the children resulting from those relationships.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

It's always surprising to see how a couple can get into a serious relationship if there is no general agreement between them on some of the biggest questions in life.

It seems rather obvious to me – These people don't see the matter of being as great importance (or as central to their existence) as you and others do.

If you're a non-practicing catholic (or whatever religion of your choice), why would it matter if your significant other doesn't share the same beliefs you?

Edit: I see you stealth edited

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

At the very least it's unfair to do that to the children resulting from those relationships.

Do tell.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

It seems rather obvious to me – These people don't see the matter of being as great importance (or as central to their existence) as you and others do.

That's a truism.

If you're a non-practicing catholic (or whatever religion of your choice), why would it matter if your significant other doesn't share the same beliefs you?

For people who don't care you're right. For me religion isn't a play thing to be trifled with, but for others it is. Being of a religion is serious, and being without religion is also serious. It's a choice with consequences no matter what, and I don't think consequential choices should be treated as trivialities.

Do tell.

Children have enough to deal with in figuring out the world. They don't need additional complications from their home environments like identity crises over religious (or atheistic) beliefs. There's no such thing as a half-Jew half-Catholic or a half-Catholic half-atheist. andi-pandi mentioned that his wife wants their son to have a bar mitzvah. (I don't mean to pick on andi but the example is right here.) He's not committed to that choice because he's not Jewish, but his wife is and appears to be fairly committed to it. The son is technically Jewish but has been celebrating both sets of holidays, and the mother will want him to get a bar mitzvah. Guaranteed that conflict will cause problems of some kind in that family, and perhaps the parents are equipped to handle the problems they've made or perhaps not, but their children will be forced to cope with those choices their parents made because they weren't committed a unified belief system as a couple.

For a number of years I've volunteered at a Jewish non-profit assistance group, and problems as a result of intermarriage make up a huge bulk of what we're contacted about. We hear horror stories all the time about intermarriages gone bad. It's just not a prudent idea for multiple reasons even though some apparently make it work.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

That's a truism. For people who don't care you're right. For me religion isn't a play thing to be trifled with, but for others it is.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I was equating your use of biggest with important. So if you accept the entire religion thing is of varying levels of importance to people, I don't understand how it's surprising that can get into serious relationships without agreement on the matter.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Children have enough to deal with in figuring out the world. They don't need additional complications from their home environments like identity crises over religious (or atheistic) beliefs. There's no such thing as a half-Jew half-Catholic. andi-pandi mentioned that his wife wants their son to have a bar mitzvah. (I don't mean to pick on andi but the example is right here.) He's not committed to that choice because he's not Jewish, but his wife is and appears to be fairly committed to it. The son is technically Jewish but has been celebrating both sets of holidays, and the mother will want him to get a bar mitzvah. Guaranteed that conflict will cause problems of some kind in that family, and perhaps the parents are equipped to handle the problems they've made or perhaps not, but their children will be forced to cope with the choices their parents made because they weren't committed a unified belief system as a couple.

Eh, I think this depends on how dogmatic your views on religion are. In which case, we go back to the entire level of importance thing.

In many ways I think religion faces the same fate as race. We're just going to breed it into obscurity.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I was equating your use of biggest with important.

I was using biggest as a synonym for most important.

So if you accept the entire religion thing is of varying levels of importance to people, I don't understand how it's surprising that can get into serious relationships without agreement on the matter.

Right well I explained that you're correct about religion having varying levels of importance to people. It's important to me and I take the subject quite seriously, but others clearly don't.

In many ways I think religion faces the same fate as race. We're just going to breed it into obscurity.

How would you proceed to do that? Forced selective mating? Religion isn't going anywhere. Secular populations are in much greater danger of disappearing because they often don't have hard coded beliefs and have low population growth rates, whereas with the religious it's the opposite.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Right well I explained that you're correct about religion having varying levels of importance to people.

So am I correct that people entering into serious relationships without settling the matter isn't so surprising after all?

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

It's important to me and I take the subject quite seriously, but others clearly don't.

And as such it would be surprising if someone such as yourself did enter into a serious relationship without settling the matter.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

How would you proceed to do that? Forced selective mating? Religion isn't going anywhere.

How would I do what?

[Big Mac]

Sorry for the "stealth edits." I commonly add to my posts after initially posting them.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

So am I correct that people entering into serious relationships without settling the matter isn't so surprising after all?

It's generally unsurprising objectively speaking, but subjectively it's quite surprising to me because of the high level of importance I attach to the subject.

And as such it would be surprising if someone such as yourself did enter into a serious relationship without settling the matter.

Absolutely.

How would I do what?

Breed out race and religion from humanity.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Breed out race and religion from humanity.

I'm not doing it, it's already happening. I mean, look at the backgrounds of some of the people in this thread. Look at the backgrounds others in this thread are giving their children.
Hasn't religion changed a fair amount in the past 100 years? Isn't a good amount of it at the mercy of social norms?

That said, I feel like the way I phrased may have overstated it. It will take quite some time.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Bottom line, if you want to make your life a lot less complicated, find yourself an atheist girlfriend. Although some do, mixed marriages/relationships rarely succeed.

[citation needed]

[andi*pandi]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

There's no such thing as a half-Jew half-Catholic or a half-Catholic half-atheist. andi-pandi mentioned that his wife wants their son to have a bar mitzvah. He's not committed to that choice because he's not Jewish, but his wife is and appears to be fairly committed to it.

Not offended, but to be clear here, my husband isn't very strongly of the opinion our kids need religious education, but my mother-in-law (MIL) is. She brings it up every once in a while. She has offered to pay for Hebrew school. She is very Jewish. My parents have shifted from Catholic mass to acoustic music night at the Unity Church Coffee House. They do not nag us.

My reasons for pondering religious education are less indoctrination to JEESUS and more learning parables, history, the golden rule, the stories of the bible. My kid is curious. I think encouraging him in his interests (robots, karate, science, violin, god) is good.