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In principle, the Qur'an condemns the killing of humans (except in the case of defense or as capital punishment), but it does not explicitly mention abortion. This leads Islamic theologians to take up different viewpoints: while the majority of early Islamic theologians permitted abortion up to day 40 of pregnancy or even up to day 120, many countries today interpret these precepts protecting unborn children more conservatively. Although there is no actual approval of abortion in the world of Islam, there is no strict, unanimous ban on it, either. Islam has not given any precise directions with regard to the issue of abortion. Hence it is not a matter, which has been clearly stated in the Shari'ah (Islamic Law) but rather an issue pertaining to the application of our knowledge of the Shari'ah. Such application may vary in conclusion with a difference in the basic premises of one's arguments.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
To save the life of the woman Yes
To preserve physical health Yes
To preserve mental health Yes
Rape or incest No
Foetal impairment No
Economic or social reasons No
Available on request No
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
All 8% of them? Not surprising though, since just about all the "liberal" Muslims there have been killed.
Do you even realize that al Qaeda and the House of Saud are mortal enemies? Or that ISIS and Hezbollah are diametrically opposed to each other? Or that not all Muslims are religious fundamentalists? Just like all Christians don't believe the Earth is only 6000 years old and the entire Universe was created in six days? Or do you just insist upon this foolishness of painting Muslims with the same broad brush?
This is another example of where you try to use "big words" but you clearly don't understand what they mean ....
Ad Hominem - (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attack on an argument made by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, rather than attacking the argument directly.
So how exactly was I "attacking the person" when you were the one who cited an anonymous blog? I have no clue who the writer even is.
And let's not overlook the part of my post you decided NOT to include in your reply. The part where I cited your own source saying this:
Unfortunately, we only have the original article discussing the poll results (screen caps below) which was published in Al-Hayat news in Saudi Arabia on July 22, 2014, and that confirm a 92% outcome of support for the Islamic State, but no details or example of all the questions, sources and responses to the poll itself.
Right there in black and white your own source says it has no freaking clue what the questions or responses even were for this poll. I even highlighted in bold the part that I was keying in on when I first referenced it. Yet it doesn't even occur to you why THAT is the reason for it being a less than credible source when it comes to the conclusions it is trumpeting. On a positive note, at least you attempted to support your "argument" with some sort of reference. Usually you simply state your bigoted opinions as fact without even bothering. So I suppose that's progress.
Do you even realize that al Qaeda and the House of Saud are mortal enemies? Or that ISIS and Hezbollah are diametrically opposed to each other? Or that not all Muslims are religious fundamentalists? Just like all Christians don't believe the Earth is only 6000 years old and the entire Universe was created in six days? Or do you just insist upon this foolishness of painting Muslims with the same broad brush?
I do but couldn't care less. Again, there's no room in Western society for conservative Islam. Period. I don't have to respect a damned thing about Islamic savages (or Christian dweebs who think the Earth is 6000 years old, but fortunately they're dying out).
This is another example of where you try to use "big words" but you clearly don't understand what they mean ....
Nope, but it is another dodge by you, dodo.
So how exactly was I "attacking the person" when you were the one who cited an anonymous blog? I have no clue who the writer even is.
Attacking the source.
Right there in black and white your own source says it has no freaking clue what the questions or responses even were for this poll. I even highlighted in bold the part that I was keying in on when I first referenced it. Yet it doesn't even occur to you why THAT is the reason for it being a less than credible source when it comes to the conclusions it is trumpeting. On a positive note, at least you attempted to support your "argument" with some sort of reference. Usually you simply state your bigoted opinions as fact without even bothering. So I suppose that's progress.
and there you go, distorting and twisting again. But then, that's all you have, your narrative doesn't reward intellectualism. There's no one here more of a bigot than you, the sooner you realize and comes to grips with it, the sooner you can evolve as a person.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Like I said. You clearly don't know what the Latin word "hominem" means. Because it doesn't mean "source". And lest you accuse me of argumentum ad verecundiam ....never mind that I studied Latin for six years so unlike you I actually know what I'm talking about. Just look it up for yourself and perhaps the point might actually register with you.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
and there you go, distorting and twisting again. But then, that's all you have, your narrative doesn't reward intellectualism. There's no one here more of a bigot than you, the sooner you realize and comes to grips with it, the sooner you can evolve as a person.
And we'll just note that you didn't address anything that I just said about your own source stating in black and white that they have no knowledge of what the questions or responses even were for this poll. And just how exactly does a direct quote of your own source constitute "distorting and twisting" on my part?
Actually never mind ... because it's quite obvious where the ad hominem is really coming from. You didn't "attack the argument" . Instead you "attacked the person". And quite pathetically at that.
It's astounding to me that "Progressive" Liberals, or people who label themselves as such, will bend over backwards to defend and make excuses for the most barbaric religion in the world; people who actually treat women like property, who promote throwing homosexuals from buildings. People who actively work to overthrow democracy, in favor of theocratic feudalism... barbarians who revere a deranged pedophile who butchered his enemies' children for sport, and his more twisted followers eagerly follow in his footsteps. It's pathetic.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
It's astounding to me that "Progressive" Liberals, or people who label themselves as such, will bend over backwards to defend and make excuses for the most barbaric religion in the world; people who actually treat women like property, who promote throwing homosexuals from buildings. People who actively work to overthrow democracy, in favor of theocratic feudalism... barbarians who revere a deranged pedophile who butchered his enemies' children for sport, and his more twisted followers eagerly follow in his footsteps. It's pathetic.
Like I said. You clearly don't know what the Latin word "hominem" means. Because it doesn't mean "source". And lest you accuse me of argumentum ad verecundiam ....never mind that I studied Latin for six years so unlike you I actually know what I'm talking about. Just look it up for yourself and perhaps the point might actually register with you.
The literal translation and the meaning of the phrase aren't the same. Being a known liar, I can't take anything you say about your education seriously. 6 years of Latin! 6 years. Oh wait, you're probably counting high school too, I'll bet. That would fit your MO. Geez... That's funny. What college gave you credits according to the year? Was that Fall, Spring, and Summer? I took 3 semesters in university and 4 semesters in HS (the latter was worthless). Do regale us with your academic prowess, professor.
And we'll just note that you didn't address anything that I just said about your own source stating in black and white that they have no knowledge of what the questions or responses even were for this poll. And just how exactly does a direct quote of your own source constitute "distorting and twisting" on my part?
"We'll" note that nothing you said in those lines was worth addressing.
Actually never mind ... because it's quite obvious where the "ad hominem" is really coming from. You didn't "attack the argument" . Instead you "attacked the person". And quite pathetically at that.
The only thing truly pathetic here is your defense of such a demented ideology, or as Hitchens framed it, "The most vile contagion to ever infect the Western world."
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Yes, you're an utter fool and have no idea the depth of your folly.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Seriously CTP. You just aren't very good at this debate thing. You really aren't. As your accusation of me purportedly "distorting and twisting" a direct quote in context makes blatantly obvious. And the thing is I've never thought you were an idiot. If I did I wouldn't even bother interacting with you. There simply wouldn't be any fun in it. The thing with you is that you are arrogant enough to believe your own BS. And insist upon it at that! Even in the face of direct evidence to the contrary. So please ... do continue. I find it most amusing.
People need to understand, there are no moderate, conservative, or liberal Muslims. Islam is also political system. Why do you think ISIS, and Iran are vying to create a Caliphate? One Sunni and the othe Shiite. The Spaniards better be ready because ISIS has already said they want Andalusia back.
Bill Warner describes his experience in Kosovo, a so called "moderate" Muslim Balkan country.
Seriously CTP. You just aren't very good at this debate thing.
^^ The clear indicator that you've destroyed their position and their nose is out of joint.
C'mon professor, we're all mighty impressed with your6 years of Latin. Hell, that's as much as people who have actual PhDs in Latin.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
People need to understand, there are no moderate, conservative, or liberal Muslims. Islam is also political system.
I think Sufis are pretty moderate.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
They can if they go to the toilet at my house. (I've had people get indignant over Playboy being in my bathroom magazine rack, but all I have to say is, no one is forcing them to look at `em.)
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
They can if they go to the toilet at my house. (I've had people get indignant over Playboy being in my bathroom magazine rack, but all I have to say is, no one is forcing them to look at `em.)
It sounds like every celeb and academic has been to your house.
How about Michael Gambon? He played Dumbledore from the Harry Potter movies. I like him. How about Richard Dreyfus?
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
^^ The clear indicator that you've destroyed their position and their nose is out of joint.
Destroyed? Dude all you've done is claimed I've "distorted and twisted" a direct quote ... and yet utterly neglected to even ATTEMPT to substantiate this foolishness. And again ... you are actually arrogant enough to think that you have "destroyed my position" simply because you said so. Not because you demonstrated so. Anyone ... I mean ANYONE can read these last few posts that we have exchanged and see this to be true. But apparently your delusions of grandeur run so deep that this 2+2=4 level of obviousness doesn't even occur to you. So go ahead and tell yourself whatever you want to tell yourself. Because even though I really don't think you are an idiot ... you continue to do such a masterful job at making yourself look like one. And as I said ... it amuses me.
"The Lady doth protest too much, methinks." Yep, `fraid so Barbara. Your complete failure is usually more than you can bear. As is normal with you, the louder you crow (the more bold type that's being thrown around), the worse it is. At this stage, as if on cue, you start manipulating and distorting again. At this point I think it's simply pathological for you.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
It's too late, you're already in my box you boxed up son of a bitch.
Aww.. poor bear, your stuffins came out.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
"The Lady doth protest too much, methinks." Yep, `fraid so Barbara. Your complete failure is usually more than you can bear. As is normal with you, the louder you crow (the more bold type that's being thrown around), the worse it is. At this stage, as if on cue, you start manipulating and distorting again. At this point I think it's simply pathological for you.
Hold up. Are you still yakking? And you STILL haven't even remotely attempted to substantiate your claims? I mean let's keep it real here. We both know that if you could ... you would. Believe me I get that. But you do realize you are only further proving my point by trying to insult your way out of the hole you dug for yourself right? So knock yourself out and keep on digging if you want to. I'm going to bed.
Why should I? You're done. Islam is shitty, conservative Islam is worse (and should stay out of the West), and radical Islam should be razed to the ground, with prejudice. Western societies will figure this out, many are waking up to the facts already, the only question is how many more innocents need to be persecuted, tortured, and murdered by this dangerous cult before we take action? Adios, professor.
(*Technically all organized religion is, but Islam's the worst.)
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
It's astounding to me that "Progressive" Liberals, or people who label themselves as such, will bend over backwards to defend and make excuses for the most barbaric religion in the world; people who actually treat women like property, who promote throwing homosexuals from buildings. People who actively work to overthrow democracy, in favor of theocratic feudalism... barbarians who revere a deranged pedophile who butchered his enemies' children for sport, and his more twisted followers eagerly follow in his footsteps. It's pathetic.
I'd like to add to that, anti-multicultural as well. (and specifically anti-Semitic and anti-Christian as can be witnessed in how those minorities have been persecuted in recent decades).
Actually communism/socialism and Islam have things in common. They're both anti-tolerant, oppressive, anti-individualistic and totalitarian. And both operate in contradiction with true liberal(classical sense) values such as freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Both promote the majority over the individual(when convenient) ie the individual rights matter less than majority rule.
Unfortunately, we only have the original article discussing the poll results (screen caps below) which was published in Al-Hayat news in Saudi Arabia on July 22, 2014, and that confirm a 92% outcome of support for the Islamic State, but no details or example of all the questions, sources and responses to the poll itself.
But wait it gets worse!!!
Let's look at what the original article it references actually says shall we?
The Sakina Campaign plans to carry out a scientific survey to determine the position of the Saudi public on the "caliphate" announced by the Islamic State (IS) in Iraq and Syria. This comes after the results of an opinion poll of Saudis were released on social networking sites, claiming that 92% of the target group believes that "IS conforms to the values of Islam and Islamic law." Observers believe that in the current period, it is most important to "focus on the roots of extremism and to address and fight it."
So right off the bat we see the obfuscation at play with this right-wing blog. This original article does NOT "confirm a 92% outcome of support for the Islamic State". Far from it! What it says is that there are "plans to carry out a scientific survey" to see what the actual position of the Saudi public is. Anyone who follows the news on these topics knows that the Islamic State has a sophisticated propaganda operation. Especially on social media. This is not a "controversial" observation on any side of the political spectrum as this these references indicate:
Again, so we are all on the same page about what "propaganda" is ....
propaganda - information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
So what this original article is actually saying is that results of an "opinion poll" were released on social media "claiming" overwhelming support for the Islamic State in Saudi Arabia .. and therefore a "scientific survey" was going to be conducted to see if that was actually true or if it was just "propaganda". Keep in mind that an "opinion poll" may or may not be "scientific" depending upon how it was conducted. More from the original article about the intent of the "scientific survey" ....
Abdul Moneim al-Mushawwah, the director of the Sakina Campaign, which operates under the supervision of the Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Endowments, Da'wah and Guidance in Saudi Arabia, told Al-Hayat: "In the coming period, the campaign plans to work on a manual survey, through which we can determine the extent to which the Saudi public sympathizes with what happened recently in Iraq, namely the declaration of the caliphate." He added: "This survey will target a specific segment in a particular time period, ranging between one and two months. It will be supervised by an academic to meet the required conditions."
Now that I've dispensed with that unmitigated foolishness let's see what an actual scientific survey has to say about the issue ...
The Islamic State group has found little love among Muslims in the Middle East and North Africa. That’s according to a recent survey of more than 18,000 people which collected opinions on the extremist militant movement, also known as ISIS, which has conquered large swaths of Iraq and Syria over the last year and a half.
Of those surveyed, just 7 percent expressed a positive view of ISIS, compared to 89 percent who said they disapproved of the group, Middle East Monitor reported. That percentage of support is slightly lower than it was in a survey conducted by the same organization last year, which found that 11 percent of respondents held positive views of ISIS.
The poll, conducted by the Arab Centre for Research and Policy Studies, included respondents from 12 Arab countries, including Mauritania, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Sudan, Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.
And quite unlike the right-wing blog CTP cited that admitted they had "no details or example of all the questions, sources and responses to the poll itself" ... let's see what the original source has to say about it ...
Arab Center for Research and Policy Studies
Results from the 2015 Arab Opinion Index, the largest public opinion poll of its kind in the Arab region, were officially released as part of a press conference in Doha, Qatar today. This year’s findings were based on 18,311 face to face interviews conducted in 12 separate Arab countries. The latest survey affords scholars and policy makers the opportunity to understand how the Arab citizenry views the most pressing issues which face it today, including the Iranian nuclear deal; the growth of radical extremism and, in particular, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL); and the Syrian revolution. In addition, respondents’ answers to the survey questions offer a wealth of information on Arab citizens’ attitudes towards democracy, the relationship between religion and civil and political affairs, and the future prospects of their home countries. This year’s Arab Opinion Index marks the fourth consecutive year that The Arab Center for Research and Policy Studies has conducted its yearly survey of Arab public opinion, allowing comparisons in the Arab public attitudes towards the main issues surveyed in all AOI polls since its launch in 2011.
Responses to the 2015 questions show that the Arab world as a whole is overwhelmingly opposed to ISIL, with 89% of respondents offering that they have negative views of the group, compared to only 7% of Arabs who view the extremist organization positively. Equally, the results of the survey show no significant correlation between support for ISIL and religiosity: favorable views of ISIL are equally prevalent among respondents who are “very religious” and those who are “not religious”, and also equally prevalent amongst opponents and supporters of the separation of religion from the state. In other words, support for radical extremist organizations in the Arab world, where it exists, is rooted in political grievances within the Arab region and its conflicts, and not a religious ideology.
And here are a couple of additional scientific surveys for good measure ....
The Washington Institute for Near East Policy
How much grassroots support does the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) enjoy in key "coalition" countries like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, or Lebanon? Until today, one could only guess at the answer. Recent news reports about the arrests of ISIS adherents in all three of these countries add urgency to the question.
Now, however, a trio of new polls -- the first ones of their kind -- provides the hard data on which to make this judgment. The polls were conducted in September by a leading commercial survey firm in the Middle East, using face-to-face interviews by experienced local professionals. The sample was a random, geographic probability national sample of 1,000 respondents (nationals only, excluding expatriates or refugees) in each country, yielding a statistical margin of error of approximately 3 percent.
The most striking as well as encouraging finding is that ISIS has almost no popular support in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, or Lebanon -- even among Sunnis. Among Egyptians, a mere 3 percent express a favorable opinion of ISIS. In Saudi Arabia, the figure is slightly higher: 5 percent rate ISIS positively. In Lebanon, not a single Christian, Shiite, or Druze respondent viewed ISIS favorably; and even among Lebanon's Sunnis, that figure is almost equally low at 1 percent.
Nevertheless, there is a real difference between almost no support and no support at all. Since 3 percent of adult Egyptians say they approve of ISIS, that is nearly 1.5 million people. For Saudis, the 5 percent of adult nationals who support ISIS means over half a million people. And even in tiny Lebanon, 1 percent of adult Sunnis equals a few thousand ISIS sympathizers. In any of these places, this is enough to harbor at least a few cells of serious troublemakers.
Recent attacks in Paris, Beirut and Baghdad linked to the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) have once again brought terrorism and Islamic extremism to the forefront of international relations. According to newly released data that the Pew Research Center collected in 11 countries with significant Muslim populations, people from Nigeria to Jordan to Indonesia overwhelmingly expressed negative views of ISIS.
One exception was Pakistan, where a majority offered no definite opinion of ISIS. The nationally representative surveys were conducted as part of the Pew Research Center’s annual global poll in April and May this year.
In no country surveyed did more than 15% of the population show favorable attitudes toward Islamic State. And in those countries with mixed religious and ethnic populations, negative views of ISIS cut across these lines
Of course, if past experience is any sort of predictor of future actions our Resident Forum Internet Expert will still claim that I've "twisted and distorted" all of these direct quotes as well simply because it doesn't fit his anti-Islamic narrative. And that's fine because I'm under no illusion that he will let little things like facts get in the way of his opinions. This is more for those of us who are more inclined towards evidence-based policy on the issue of ISIS.
Cue Turtle pointing out that there was a schooling?
I wish we would stop making remarks like this, they are one of the most juvenile parts of the whole internet experience. I guess Turtle doesn't care about my internet experience though.
*you blather on about ISIS for awhile, which I didn't even directly mention*
ISLAM is shit, even the moderate iterations of it, ISIS is just the worst of the shit. Its very foundations are garbage, professor. Something you'd realize if you even paid casual attention to the Quran*. Oh wait, you're fluent in Latin, not Arabic, nevermind. The Russian woman who cut off that baby's head, she wasn't part of ISIS, she was simply a conservative follower of Islam. There's no place for that ideology in the Western world.
(*Since its central character, a plague be upon him, was an illiterate, racist, warmongering pedophile, it's not hard to see how Islam has developed to reflect him. After all, that's their primary goal.)
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
*you blather on about ISIS for awhile, which I didn't even directly mention*
Why do you insist upon making yourself look downright foolish in a public forum?
You didn't directly mention ISIS? Dude we are in a thread where the freaking topic is "Are we doing enough to stop ISIS?"
Beyond that, this latest exchange ... which BTW you are losing badly ... was initiated by your own post where you said this ...
Do you not realize that your posts are visible for everyone to see in black and white? Did you not reference a blog that made a completely bogus claim about public support for ISIS in Saudi Arabia? But now that you are faced with hard evidence to the contrary that you simply can't refute you want to sit here and pretend like you never mentioned ISIS? WTF possesses you to say things that are so demonstrably false? You know what? I think I've figured out what your problem is ....
Page 2 of the thread
Page 3 of the thread
You really ought to just STOP now so you don't embarrass yourself even further.
He doesn't have to stop, just admit to being wrong, imprecise, misleading, unclear, whatever from time to time rather than continuing on the parade of righteousness.
I've probably been wrong 209482 times this week alone, but I'm still the best.
He doesn't have to stop, just admit to being wrong, imprecise, misleading, unclear, whatever from time to time rather than continuing on the parade of righteousness.
Yeah but that would be entirely too much like right.
Why do you insist upon making yourself look downright foolish in a public forum?
You didn't directly mention ISIS? Dude we are in a thread where the freaking topic is "Are we doing enough to stop ISIS?"
Nope, no matter how you try to manipulate and maneuver, my post wasn't about ISIS. If you hadn't noticed we've been broadly talking about Islam in this thread for a while, fool.
Beyond that, this latest exchange ... which BTW you are losing badly ...
Ah professor, you're pitiful.
*stupid memes*
Are you too ignorant to realize that ISIS isn't the issue? Islam itself is the problem, an ideology based on subjugation, bigotry, and misogyny (with a healthy dose of pedophilia and homophobia to boot), 100x worse than Christianity was on its worst days. ISIS is only a symptom, when it's gone other radical groups will simply take its place, because Islam is a cancer. In the West we're fortunately growing out of the need for organized religion and gradually leaving that idiocy behind.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Yep, keep avoiding that Islam is the actual problem.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
This claims the Quran doesn't explicitly mention abortion, and uses it as an argument.
Where does the Bible explicitly mention abortion?
Exodus 21:22-24
Exodus 21:22-24New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
22 When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman’s husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine. 23 If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
The whole "magic, sorcery" angle is actually about poisoning wells (Ex 22:18) and witchcraft (Lev 20:27), not what people today refer to as ceremonial magick (aka. Theurgy), for those who have ever been curious about that.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Actually it seems the bible explicitly says you pay a fine for abortion. So actually Christianity should be entirely cool with it as long as the doctors have a fight while they do it.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
Isn't it strange how none of those 43 countries can do anything to protect minorities, and none will go to their defense? And outside those 43 countries, ironically, the only protests we see are about Israel and islamophbia.
Actually it seems the bible explicitly says you pay a fine for abortion. So actually Christianity should be entirely cool with it as long as the doctors have a fight while they do it.
The bible says an 'abortionist' should be 'fined what the woman’s husband demands.' So if the father is ok with it, not even a fine is required.
As the early Christian writer Tertullian pointed out, the law of Moses ordered strict penalties for causing an abortion. We read, "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [Hebrew: "so that her child comes out"], but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot" (Ex. 21:22–24).
This applies the lex talionis or "law of retribution" to abortion. The lex talionis establishes the just punishment for an injury (eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life, compared to the much greater retributions that had been common before, such as life for eye, life for tooth, lives of the offender’s family for one life).
The lex talionis would already have been applied to a woman who was injured in a fight. The distinguishing point in this passage is that a pregnant woman is hurt "so that her child comes out"; the child is the focus of the lex talionis in this passage. Aborted babies must have justice, too.
There's no one here more of a bigot than you, the sooner you realize and comes to grips with it, the sooner you can evolve as a person.
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