[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by sek929 

The 4/4s was a pretty silly design IMO, the glass going all the way to the edge (with a tiny rubber bumper) made the damn thing pretty shatter-prone. Also, there was glass on the back for no apparent reason, which also broke frequently.

I still think that the iPhone 4S is the most beautiful iPhone ever built, and its glass back adds to the design. It's really an object d'art. I was quite careful with mine and put it in a slide-in case which protected it very well, but since it has two butter sides, I agree that you run the risk of shattering the back. It's one thing that irks me about Apple's designs: they are built without regards for aging.

Originally Posted by sek929 

Otherwise it was a hefty little bastard, fun to take apart and put back together as well.

Yes, especially compared to an iPod touch (which is what I owned before) and my iPhone 5. But I didn't mind at the time.

[starman]

I just spent most of my day on an Android bug. Apparently HttpURLConnection has a known issue where it crashes, and there's no documentation saying *WHY* it crashes so we don't know what to fix on the server side.

It was supposedly fixed in KitKat, but the bug has reared its ugly head again.

Oh, and yeah, you want an update to that? You have to wait for it.

Yeah, I just *LOVE* Android development. Such stable. Many mature.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

The difference is, now the Android phone makers have the quality to back it up.

(looks at SGS4 on the desk)

Seriously? Quality?

[starman]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

That irks me. Android's "openness" has been largely used by carriers to almost completely reverse the effects of Apple's iPhone.

This x infinity.

Yeah, Android is (mostly) open, but you're right, it's actually used AGAINST the consumer.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I still think that the iPhone 4S is the most beautiful iPhone ever built, and its glass back adds to the design. It's really an object d'art. I was quite careful with mine and put it in a slide-in case which protected it very well, but since it has two butter sides, I agree that you run the risk of shattering the back. It's one thing that irks me about Apple's designs: they are built without regards for aging.

No question it's a nice looking device. I inherited my g/f's white 4s (32GB model) with a broken screen. A happy accident was when I ordered a replacement screen I forgot to check the color, and ended up with an Oreo 4s (Black front w/white home button, white back). The young girl who activated it at my local t-Mobile store said it was "tight."

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Android took that power from the customers and manufacturers and gave it back to the telecoms (who are now, again, the customers, as they've always been).

That's a bit harsh.

While there is crapware on many carrier sold Android phones, the situations isn't quite a dire as you're making it sound.

You can buy unlocked Android phones from most manufacturers for as long as you're prepared to pay the full price just as you can buy an unlocked iPhone from Apple for as long as you're willing to pay for it. You can buy the Nexus version of several phones, including Sony, HTC, Samsung, Motorola and others directly from google and pop in any SIM card you like - not just the google LG phone. You can buy an unlocked, no crapware Motorola with more than decent specs for $150, again pop in any SIM card of your choice. You can choose between the manufacturer's flavour of Android, or choose to go plain Jane. That's consumer choice, and power, right there.

Buying phones on subsidy from telcos is a mug's game, regardless of the OS on the phone.

As far as design is concerned, I too think the 4s was a beautiful phone. Not the most functional of devices, with a shatter prone back, but nice looking for sure.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

That's a bit harsh.

While there is crapware on many carrier sold Android phones, the situations isn't quite a dire as you're making it sound.

I don't think it is, in my experience carriers implement really evil strategies which are in the end against their customers' interests. In Japan you cannot unlock phones, period. Which means I had to sell my perfectly functioning iPhone 4S at a great loss to get a new phone. In Germany, I was unable to get OS updates from the carrier until I jail-broke the phone.

Apart from Apple there is no second smartphone manufacturer which has the kind of pull to resist rebranding your phone. Do you believe a Verizon-branded phone is better than, say, a stock-Android (or »stock-manufacturer«) device? It's not good for the Android ecosystem that in some cases carriers block or delay updates.

You're right that in most, but not all markets you can buy unlocked phones -- which mitigates some of the problems. But even unlocking phones had, for a time, been something of questionable legality. And how many people do that instead of choosing a carrier and getting the phone in the store? Why should these customers be treated differently. (Sorry for the rant against carriers.)

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I don't think it is, in my experience carriers implement really evil strategies which are in the end against their customers' interests.

Absolutely. But these are getting increasingly easy to avoid, simply by buying a phone outright and then going shopping for the best network deal. This hasn't anything to do with the OS on the phone, or with Apple being a consumer advocate.

An iPhone will set you back from $649, $549 for the 5C, unlocked. Sony, HTC and Samsung all have their flagships available unlocked at a comparable price point, even with a choice of Nexus flavour (i.e plain vanilla Android) or their own skins.
A Nexus 5 will be yours for $349, same with the Moto X, which is an awesome phone. And at the lower end of the market, there's the Moto G, a really good, capable, phone unlocked, contract free and yours for $179.

When I started buying my phones outright, I had several amusing conversations with Rogers*, along these lines:

Rogers: "Congratulations. You're eligible for a phone upgrade to (insert flagship here) at just $xx for the next two years"
Me: "I own my own phone. Can you please check if my current deal is the best deal you can get me, otherwise, please cancel my contract as I'll be going elsewhere."

My current monthly bill, that I can stop paying for at any time, is about $45 with most anything thrown in.


*I had a similarly entertaining conversation with our alarm company. When we signed up for the service, we agreed on a two year contract, as installation and hardware were included in the price. Two years later, I get a phone call:

Them: "Hi, this is #####, I am calling to let you know that your contract will be renewed for another two years. I just need your approval."
Me: "And why would I do that?"
Them: "What do you mean?"
Me: "I mean, what's in it for me?"
Them: "Well, it will protect you from future price increases and guarantee service coverage."
Me: "I have a much better idea: If you increase my price, then I'll just go elsewhere. If your service level drops, I'll go elsewhere. Sounds to me a much better deal than signing a contract. For as long as you keep me happy, I'll pay you our monthly fee. Sounds good?"
Them: "Yes, Sir. Have a nice day."

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Absolutely. But these are getting increasingly easy to avoid, simply by buying a phone outright and then going shopping for the best network deal.

Whether they're easy to avoid depends on the country you live in (but I think this is getting too specialized). But it's important to not forget that many details depend on where you live. (For instance, our friends down South have more trouble unlocking their phones, after [url=https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/right-click/unlocking-cell-phone-becomes-illegal-u-today-204059718.html]it became illegal for a certain while.)

Originally Posted by Phileas 

This hasn't anything to do with the OS on the phone, or with Apple being a consumer advocate.

It doesn't have anything to do with an OS, but it has everything to do with the fact that Apple's interests align much more closely with the customers than with the carrier. In fact, they don't care which carrier you choose, as long as you buy an iPhone they're happy. They know that regular OS updates are something which improves customer satisfaction (directly and indirectly). Shaddim claimed that the iPhone is much less of a draw for new customers than before. I hope that he is wrong for all consumers' sake -- or at least that some other phone will pick up the momentum. That more and more people buy phones and cell phone plans separately (as is the case in China, for example).

Originally Posted by Phileas 

My current monthly bill, that I can stop paying for at any time, is about $45 with most anything thrown in.

Out of curiosity, what carrier do you use and which plan did you opt for?

[Spheric Harlot]

See, I buy my iPhone subsidized on contract, and I get the exact same phone everybody else does.

I buy an iPhone, I get the iPhone experience.

I buy an Android, I better front the cash for an unsubsidized device, buy a Nexus, or void the warranty by rooting, and then I get the "Android experience". And I'm sure the experience provided by the $150 Motorola is the same as that which a Nexus gives you.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Which one, for instance? My brother's Xperia is alright, but feels less hefty than an iPhone. (Although I'm very jealous that he can dunk it in beer, rinse it off with water and make a phone call ) The higher-end Lumias feel equally great (but they're Windows Phone phones) and also HTC's One series (including the new M8) is very, very close. What I like about the Lumias is that there is no way you can mistake them for an iPhone.

Motorola's Moto X and the Nexus 5 feel well-built, but not quite as well as the other phones mentioned above. Samsung's flagship phones have always had a cheap feel to them -- despite their price tags. And their design is atrocious (especially with these asymmetric eyes looking at me every time I use it).

The quality story for me is rather that a Nexus 5 is good enough in terms of quality and design, and certainly much, much better than what you could get at that price point -- sort of like Honda vs. BMW in the car world.

Of the ones I've personally handled: the LG G3, HTC One M8, the OnePlus One (even at $349), the Xperia Z1 Compact, and the Oppo Find 7 are all equal in quality to the iPhone. I don't equate weight with quality anymore, that's simply an outdated metric. When you grip it, does it creak? My IPhone 5S does, but the One M8 and Z1 Compact don't. So many materials are more durable and pleasing to hold compared to aluminum, and weigh much less.

One major maker is soon releasing a handset with an all-carbon fiber housing, in fact, the only materials your hand ever touches are carbon and sapphire composite. Its weight is >40% less than other same-sized phones.

I've never been impressed with Samsung phones, but I think their Galaxy Pro and new S tablets are the business, especially the S with its drop-dead gorgeous AMOLED screen. Great products, there.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by starman 

(looks at SGS4 on the desk)

Seriously? Quality?

Obviously all Android phones are Samsungs.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

See, I buy my iPhone subsidized on contract, and I get the exact same phone everybody else does.

I buy an iPhone, I get the iPhone experience.

I buy an Android, I better front the cash for an unsubsidized device, buy a Nexus, or void the warranty by rooting, and then I get the "Android experience". And I'm sure the experience provided by the $150 Motorola is the same as that which a Nexus gives you.

Incorrect, I can point you to several phones that don't weigh you down with bloatware, namely every one mentioned in my above post, for a start. Specifically, the Oppo Find 7 is a real gem, as is the OnePlus One. Even HTC Sense has been pared back drastically due to Google's new policies asserted on carriers. I'm pretty sure I mentioned the last just recently, but no one's acknowledged it and they still want to keep banging that drum. None of the manufacturers' skins are as onerous as they once were, and what is left isn't an issue for their 2.3+GHz quad-core CPUs and 2-3 GBs of RAM. I know it's difficult for many here to come to grips with, but Android devices have made a quantum leap forward in the last year, and they're no longer behind Apple, in most ways they're in the lead.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I know it's difficult for many here to come to grips with, but Android devices have made a quantum leap forward in the last year, and they're no longer behind Apple, in most ways they're in the lead.

I own an Android phone w/KK and I don't see a "quantum leap" at all. I see a natural progression, but that's about it. A quantum leap, to me, would be like a G1 to a Nexus 5. That's a quantum leap. Symbian to an iPhone is a "quantum leap". "In the last year" is Jelly Bean 4.3 to KitKat 4.4. That's really not a quantum leap, not at all. I see *nothing* in Android that really screams anything more than just your usual upgrades.

If you read the Ars article, at the very end it says, "A solid update, but KitKat could learn a thing or two from its competitors". Yup.

Android 4.4 KitKat, thoroughly reviewed | Ars Technica

[starman]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Obviously all Android phones are Samsungs.

Most of them are, according to this:

[subego]

I miss Nokia!

[mattyb]

OK, my colleague, a Unix sys admin came back from holiday - with an iPhone 5C. Nobody can believe it. He said that his network proposed it for 20€. He had an S3.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

See, I buy my iPhone subsidized on contract, and I get the exact same phone everybody else does.

I buy an iPhone, I get the iPhone experience.

I buy an Android, I better front the cash for an unsubsidized device, buy a Nexus, or void the warranty by rooting, and then I get the "Android experience". And I'm sure the experience provided by the $150 Motorola is the same as that which a Nexus gives you.

Carriers don't subsidize anything - that would imply that they give you the phone for less than it is worth.

They lend you the money for the phone, but make no mistake, you're paying it back with interest, multiple times if they have their way. Few people renegotiate their contracts at the end of the repayment period, instead happily upgrading to the next shiny, spending far more than they need. Financially, you'd be much better off buying your phone outright, even if you have to borrow money to do so at Bank rates, and then negotiating a service agreement with the Telco of your choice. That's especially true for iPhones, given the high resale value they command. Pay once, then start saving, rather than pay inflated rates for years on end.

Buying phones from your Telcom stacks all the cards against you, financially, and from a service perspective. They know you can't go anywhere, so they have no reason to give you the best possible service at the best price. Because the iPhone is an expensive phone, and in high demand, it was common for the telcos to sell it with a fee hiked iPhone only plan. That this doesn't happen anymore, at least to the best of my knowledge, is a sign of healthy competition in the market.

There are several Android phones available, all of Motorola for example, that give you the clean Android experience even if you choose to buy a phone locked into a carrier - except, at the price, why bother?

Also, if you read the reviews for the Motorola G, you'll find near universal praise. $179 bus you freedom from carrier BS. Sounds like a deal to me.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Out of curiosity, what carrier do you use and which plan did you opt for?

Rogers. I am not really on a plan. Instead, I buy connection services for three phones and several tablets from them. I pay them for a chunk of data, currently 12GB, that is shared amongst all of my devices. I can add devices by simply paying $10 for a Sim card. There is no contract, it's a month to month agreement.

Same for the phones. We pay a negotiated monthly fee for service. Again, we can leave at any time and take our business elsewhere. I pay about a third of what your average 'subsidized' customer pays. My phone paid for itself in less than half a year.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Carriers don't subsidize anything - that would imply that they give you the phone for less than it is worth.

They lend you the money for the phone, but make no mistake, you're paying it back with interest, multiple times if they have their way. Few people renegotiate their contracts at the end of the repayment period, instead happily upgrading to the next shiny, spending far more than they need. Financially, you'd be much better off buying your phone outright and then negotiating a service agreement with the Telco of your choice. That's especially true for iPhones, given the high resale value they command. Pay once, then start saving, rather than pay inflated rates for years on end.

There are reasons to buy via contract financing. I haven't quite worked through the numbers, but if you keep initial investment under 410€, you can write it off as a one-year expense. Above that, it's three years. Considering the markup over the length of the contract, and the lack of options for moving to a cheaper contract, it might still be worth purchasing upfront, but it's not quite that simple.

Still, I'll probably reconsider my options, come contract extension season in autumn 2015.

Because the iPhone is an expensive phone, and in high demand, it was common for the telcos to sell it with a fee hiked iPhone only plan. That this doesn't happen anymore, at least to the best of my knowledge, is a sign of healthy competition in the market.

This actually does happen, and is the norm in Germany.

By contrast, Galaxy's are pushed into the "buy one get one free" bracket by Samsung's "flood the market and get people like mattyb thinking that share is actually based on the products' merits" politics. ( ::waves white flag in the direction of France:: )

[ajprice]

Xiaomi Mi4, another Chinese handset with a similar spec to the OnePlus One, but with a 5" screen, this has it's own skin on top, and isn't Cyanogenmod like the OnePlus. Price would probably also be under the Nexus 5. http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...nd-android/18/

If it ever gets sold outside of China...

[ShortcutToMoncton]

The Z1 Compact does look very nice, wow. Screen is only 4.3" which is too bad...the 4.5-4.7" screen phones feel perfect when I use them. For me it's not really about hand size - it's about carry-around size. A purse (forget cute "murse" descriptions, it's a purse) is just not going to happen so it must comfortably fit in pocket spaces.

I was overly optimistic that the HTC Mini 2 would be perfect, and at 4.5" it sounded pretty much exactly what I wanted - but apparently the processor is underpowered for a two-year lifespan and although they finally moved away from Ultrapixel, HTC's alternate 13-MP camera is pretty bad (unlike the Z1 Compact in both cases). What I do like about these "mini" phones is that they can last a day even with reasonably heavy use, and likely two days with light use.

Essentially, I'm looking for the original HTC One with good battery life and a good camera, but I'm chasing a unicorn here. I'd love to wait for the new iPhone in September and I know I will likely have Envy if I don't. But this Blackberry Z10, although fine for email use, basically has no key apps that I want, so it's killing me bit by bit every day.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by starman 

Most of them are, according to this:

Because America is apparently the only country in the world? Can't help yourself, can you? McDonald's must be the only restaurant that matters, because the majority of people eat there. Right?

Originally Posted by starman 

I own an Android phone w/KK and I don't see a "quantum leap" at all. I see a natural progression, but that's about it. A quantum leap, to me, would be like a G1 to a Nexus 5. That's a quantum leap. Symbian to an iPhone is a "quantum leap". "In the last year" is Jelly Bean 4.3 to KitKat 4.4. That's really not a quantum leap, not at all. I see *nothing* in Android that really screams anything more than just your usual upgrades.

If you read the Ars article, at the very end it says, "A solid update, but KitKat could learn a thing or two from its competitors". Yup.

Android 4.4 KitKat, thoroughly reviewed | Ars Technica

The GS4 wasn't released within the last year. It's built on 2012 tech, and if you've noticed (not likely), I've not sung the praises of any of Samsung's handsets. Specifically because they aren't very good, within the spectrum of Android phones, they're just plentiful.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

The Z1 Compact does look very nice, wow. Screen is only 4.3" which is too bad...the 4.5-4.7" screen phones feel perfect when I use them. For me it's not really about hand size - it's about carry-around size. A purse (forget cute "murse" descriptions, it's a purse) is just not going to happen so it must comfortably fit in pocket spaces.

I was overly optimistic that the HTC Mini 2 would be perfect, and at 4.5" it sounded pretty much exactly what I wanted - but apparently the processor is underpowered for a two-year lifespan and although they finally moved away from Ultrapixel, HTC's alternate 13-MP camera is pretty bad (unlike the Z1 Compact in both cases). What I do like about these "mini" phones is that they can last a day even with reasonably heavy use, and likely two days with light use.

Essentially, I'm looking for the original HTC One with good battery life and a good camera, but I'm chasing a unicorn here. I'd love to wait for the new iPhone in September and I know I will likely have Envy if I don't. But this Blackberry Z10, although fine for email use, basically has no key apps that I want, so it's killing me bit by bit every day.

Then I'd really look hard at the regular Z1, if 4.3" is too small. However, I found the Compact is surprisingly easy to use, despite my big hands.

------------------

Hmm...an Ubuntu handset? Indeed, I'm looking at one right now. I can't say who the OEM is, but it's pretty damned cool. Security appears to be a central focus, because encryption and privacy are major bullet points in the development. A few optimizations aside, it's amazing how far they've come in 6 months. This is going to be a serious niche player... especially considering its extensive VM support. Oops, did I say that out loud?

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Hmm...an Ubuntu handset? Indeed, I'm looking at one right now. I can't say who the OEM is, but it's pretty damned cool. Security appears to be a central focus, because encryption and privacy are major bullet points in the development. A few optimizations aside, it's amazing how far they've come in 6 months. This is going to be a serious niche player... especially considering its extensive VM support. Oops, did I say that out loud?

You swine, when will it be on the market?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

You swine, when will it be on the market?

That's info that I don't have access to. I can say the SOC isn't what you'd find in most other flagship phones and the amount of memory it has is... shocking, opening the door for amazing possibilities.

[mattyb]

Size?

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

There are reasons to buy via contract financing. I haven't quite worked through the numbers, but if you keep initial investment under 410€, you can write it off as a one-year expense. Above that, it's three years. Considering the markup over the length of the contract, and the lack of options for moving to a cheaper contract, it might still be worth purchasing upfront, but it's not quite that simple.

Still, I'll probably reconsider my options, come contract extension season in autumn 2015.

Run the numbers. The results would make your average loan shark green with envy. I am not familiar with German tax laws, but here in Canada there are zero reasons to not buy a phone outright. Don't forget, you can't write off the entire purchase price either, just the depreciation.

What the carriers love doing is sell you an initial plan at service + phone repayment = small profit for them. Once the phone is repaid, the phone repayment part of the contract doesn't automatically stop, it goes straight to the bottom line. Unless of course, you own your phone and tell them to get lost. Number portability is a great help in this.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

That's info that I don't have access to. I can say the SOC isn't what you'd find in most other flagship phones and the amount of memory it has is... shocking, opening the door for amazing possibilities.

I have now seen two early Ubuntu phones. Both were very much development units, but already looked extremely promising. If this goes to market, there will be serious competition.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Because America is apparently the only country in the world? Can't help yourself, can you? McDonald's must be the only restaurant that matters, because the majority of people eat there. Right?

Why do non-Americans love throwing out the McDonald's card?

Also.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

Why do non-Americans love throwing out the McDonald's card?

Also.

I'm a non-American? When did that happen?

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Run the numbers. The results would make your average loan shark green with envy. I am not familiar with German tax laws, but here in Canada there are zero reasons to not buy a phone outright. Don't forget, you can't write off the entire purchase price either, just the depreciation.

Countries are different. Last time I had a contract in Germany (in 2012), you were locked in for 2 years even if you did not buy a phone. Most contracts assumed that you'd get a new phone, and since a sizable part of the market were dumb phones, I can only imagine what the markup was (my last, admittedly crappy, dumb phone cost me €17 new). As far as I can tell, pre-paid contracts are getting more and more traction (I have one), but I haven't looked into the German cell phone market in a while.

In Japan, there is no financial advantage to buying a phone: if you buy a phone there, you can pay for the phone each month. They literally divide the cost of the phone by the number of months you sign the contract for, and that is what you pay each month in addition. But note that since phones are locked to a carrier there and you have no right to legally unlock your phone, you can't take the phone to a new carrier after your contract is up.

Each market is different, but at least in my experience, carriers try to screw over their customers everywhere.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I'm a non-American? When did that happen?

When you made fun of McDonald's, I suppose.

Sorry. I didn't remember where you were from, and inferred it from your comment.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

Why do non-Americans love throwing out the McDonald's card?

Also.

The Frogs hate it when I talk about how well McDo does in France.

[starman]

oooookay....

Worldwide OEM sales for 2013.

So yeah, Samsung is the biggest OEM for Android.

Samsung was one of two top OEMs that was able to increase its smartphone shipments from Q4. Continued strength from it's Galaxy line of smartphones and the increasing strength of the Note line kept smartphone shipments growing. It appears that Samsung was one of the few OEMs to capitalize on China's Q1 buying season. While it was Samsung's strength in the premium smartphone segment that built its market leadership, it can be expected that Samsung's strategy for mid-to-low-cost smartphones will be the engine that keeps Samsung at the top over the mid-term.

So this brings me back to the original point about the perceived quality of Android phones. Samsung, whether certain people want to admit it or not, is synonymous with Android. Their phones are made of cheap parts. I know because I own a SGS4 and a Note 8. The HCT One is built well, as is the Nexus 5, but Samsung rules the roost, and it's the cheapest piece of junk in the line.

That's the reason we got Samsung devices for testing - because they're the most popular. It paid off too since we had to deal with TouchWiz BS early on in development.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by starman 

Samsung, whether certain people want to admit it or not, is synonymous with Android.

I'd like to see consumer research backing that quote, but I am hazarding a guess that the result wouldn't be quite as clear cut.
Consumers know that Android means flexibility, regardless of the fact that Samsung sells a boatload of phones.

You also have to ask yourself, how did they turn out to be this successful? Marketing helps, having 50 phones in the market at any one time helps, but it doesn't tell the entire story.

Also, given that Samsung builds components for Apple, does this mean that the iPhone is built from cheap parts?
Last time I looked, Samsung was still a major supplier.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

When you made fun of McDonald's, I suppose.

Sorry. I didn't remember where you were from, and inferred it from your comment.

You don't actually eat their "food", do you? Isn't there a Wendy's or similar nearby?

Originally Posted by starman 

Summary:

"The Royale w/ Cheese is pretty awful, thus all hamburgers are terrible."

Then maybe you should have gotten a Big Kahuna burger, or maybe try In-N-Out? Do you also drive a Camry?

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Look, could somebody page Athens in for a timely discussion on fast food's devious chemical re-balancing to minimise food quality and maximise taste? I think this thread needs more of that

[subego]

Can we all agree Samsung keynotes are horrible?

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by subego 

Can we all agree Samsung keynotes are horrible?

But are they as horrible as some fast food burgers?

[subego]

The ones I've seen? Yes.

[subego]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Look, could somebody page Athiest in for a timely discussion on fast food's devious chemical re-balancing to minimise food quality and maximise taste? I think this thread needs more of that

That's not Athens?

[Jawbone54]

Samsung is bad at everything except selling phones.
Even the abominable ones.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by subego 

That's not Athens?

My bad, apologies Atheist, edited

[Jawbone54]

It's a day for mistakes. I'm calling Americans non-Americans (I guess I'm finally a conservative caricature) and you're confusing Atheist and Athens.

[Phileas]

I'm all argued out. I also feel like a bit of an idiot getting rid up about a phone OS when some drunken assholes have just murdered a plane full of innocent people.

[starman]

I don't even know where to begin with this silliness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15uIFmysZV4

[Spheric Harlot]

Good Grief.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

The Mark of the Beast

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by starman 

I don't even know where to begin with this silliness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15uIFmysZV4

You must be a hoot at those clubs that put stamps on everyone's wrists.